To sponsors selling DVDs and other shit in members area without paying affiliates
 

Your days are numbered.

There are some big companies who love to brag about their conversions, and retention.

take a look at the member secton and youll see why you are not rebilling like they say.

must be nice, just throw in DVDs that no one gets credit for, and sell products to members that no affiliate gets credit for - yet you brag about retention?

the reason i personally have seen retention droop with a sponsor is because they are now selling DVDs from the member section.

pay site subscribers stop rwebilling once they buy DVDs of the content.

i am entering member sections for all remaining sponsors we push and pulling all links to people with upsells we do not get paid for.

i suggest all of you take a look at your numbers and do the same.

Hmmm... post some names please

are you talking about meatcash?

i am not directing this at any ONE sponsor, although there are a couple I have in mind.

My partner brought something to my attention, i check it out, verified the traffic leaks and as I have been doing for the past 3 years - phasing out all sponsors who pull shit like this.

the list is getting more narrow every year.

the consistent marketing of DVDs to rebilling rev share members is not cool.

sponsors will be removed, simple as that.

I trust MALCOM ;)

Key word being rebilling rev share members, Fletch do you not like PPS sponsors? We can pay out at $42 plus are paying out $50 per trial until Sept 15th.. I understand where you are coming from happens with exits in rev share as well.. good luck

I agree, I've seen this around a lot

I make lots of sales with PPS sponsors.

This post is directed at a few types of sponsors:

but mostly ones that sell products to rebilling rev share members.

I dont complain much about the PPS guys because i cant worry about the member section if I am getting a $30+ sign up, so yes this is about taking advantage of affiliates with rebills.

I have a wacky idea. Send to per-signup programs and make more money.

I use both, but this has NOTHING to do with sponsors that were at one time good rebilling/revshare sponsors - and now the rebills are fading away - due to obvious DVD sales.

yes on a recurring sponsor that wouldn't be cool.

:thumbsup I hear ya!!!

A lot more webmasters should pay attention to the members areas of some revshare programs, many guys are not even updating anymore.

yep you gotta pick wisely

or just send your traffic straight to the shit people upsell to in their members areas, which is much easier than trying to make money with someone elses paysites when that is what they are doing in their members area anyhow. Content is way overrated.

well duuuuh of course

but some people have zillions of links to change out which takes time and sucks balls.

he's more making the point that affiliates send traffic without knowing this

I suggest you take your own advice.

Brilliant post.

Not really.

I am happy to say that is not us... We made it so our webmasters get paid not only on memberships but also on dvds and our vod with their affiliate code tracking it all. Sorry if that comes off as spam but I thought it best to separate ourselves from the wide net of your accusation...

:winkwink:

LOL.. I like your thinking :)

Upsells in members area's are standard:/

Unless the business model is built to just get members in, sell them the dvd's.
Again...

"Know thy sponsor", as a creed once again comes to mind. :upsidedow

Sponsors should not rely on affiliates if they have to fuck them over to stay afloat. :)

I love when paysite owners whine about not making enough money :1orglaugh

That just proves they won't be around long anyhow.

i don't see it as spam at all. :thumbsup

u have absolutely ZERO proof that DVD sales to members cause rebills to decline

But the recent explosion of people selling DVDs of THE MOVIE CONTENT in their site, exclusive videos etc - has nothing to do with the old upsells of the past.

The recent explosion of DVD content within membr areas is clearly not the same as upselling to a singles site, or personals site or cam feeds etc.

I am talking about selling DVDs of the tour content etc.

Big difference.

paysites are just not what they used to be nowdays when its all out there for free anyhow.

My opinion is as useless as everyones.

This thread was not started as a debate about anything. It was started as a call to people to look into the member sections of sites they push. I thought that was pretty clear.

:)

you obviously haven't tested the markets.

you are incorrect in making that assumption

we dont sell dvd's in our members areas. but ive been thinking of giving them away for free to members that stay 3 months, every 3 months they can pick a few more. dunno, just an idea

You sir will never run a successful anything. :upsidedow

i'm sure these programs will be devestated at the loss of your tremendous volume of traffic.

This thread is kinda stupid..

DVD's sales, exclusively in the members area, does NOT make retention any worse, upsells in general do not change retention unless the site has tons of upsells.
Sites that release new DVD's monthly will retain better and have better return on old members.

I have been testing member area designs, upsells, dvd's, updates, etc for the past 6 years on paysites.. Retention is only effected by layout of site (if its hard to use) and the amount of updates the site does VS the price of the site and speed of the site. Period.

You want to kill retention, check out how many sites only allow one video download at a time. (speed of the site)

I agree. But does it have much to do with retention at all is the question.
Summary is basically they subscribe, watch the movies and unsubscribe and most likely never even buy the DVD's LOL:)

Retention is a problem in the first place and the DVD's probably have nothing to do with it.

MM is a rather successful webmaster and has been in the paysite game longer than most everyone on this board.

Sort of funny how internet is now going bricks and mortar to make extra cash.

I saw Lightspeed either discussing this or doing it and his retention is the highest I have, so keep it up if it works.

:thumbsup

Any paysite owner bitching about paying 60% and not being able to make money isn't "successful". There are crack addicted 20 year olds living with their mom that make money in this business, does that make them a success?

I have to agree with you. People want the dvds for numerous reasons. I don't have any numbers on how it affects member site retention, which is something we don't have a problem with anyway, but I do know that at least for us people are more interested in buying the dvds than the vod versions.

Like I said though, we just made Homegrown so site, vod, dvd, tracks under one affiliate id to keep our affiliates happy. What other programs do it that way? I have yet to see one but admittedly I don't get out much...

I guess you don't run paysites..

We don't pay 60%, we pay 60% to webmasters, bandwidth, 10%+ to new content each month, plugins, galleries, ads, employees, etc.. The 40% profit margin we had is now 10%..

So bitching that we don't pay on DVD upsells is BS.. Its making us more cash so at the end of the day we can provide webmasters with more crap to push us with.

Now go have a look at all your sales with no referrer that are a DIRECT result of your affiliates. 10% profit margin my ass. You might have an initial 10% profit margin on the original sale but you can't magically forget type ins, branding, return buyers, etc.

Edit: And I guess you drive a pinto on that 10% since the poor paysite owner is just screwed?

Paysites are about volume, revshare or pps programs.. The profit margin increases over years and years of being open due to the branding which we pay webmasters on so it's fair.

Why do you think big companies have started to drop ads, employees, and all the extra BS.. More profit because the profit margin % isn't all that high, damn sure not as high as everyone seems to think it is.

And the profit margin is about 10%, Max 20%.. companies that drive in their own traffic have a much higher %.. But we are talking about webmasters and not our own promos.

Yes I understand how the paysite model works. 10% isn't much but you benefit so much more than that. Are you trying to say that everyone paying 60% revshare without upsells are losing money? There are plently of sites that are just fine.

Upsells based off of the % of members you have makes you jack shit, its just extra cash in the bank to help make more. Nobody said 60% programs without upsells lose money.. It's about making a bit more money..

The point of this post was upsells / DVD's would change retention, which they don't do so bitching about having upsells and not paying the webmasters is just BS. We pay you for the sale to the site, if you want to make money on the DVD's then sell the DVD's through a different site.

I don't have DVD's btw, sold out a while back, retention has never been better.. The more I update the better I retain the more webmasters make.

No, please do not translate my posts, or put words in my mouth.

I simply expressed my frustration, addressed the sponsors, and encouraged the following:

In regards to retention, I said:

Which translates to me stating my concern, and what I feel is the issue and my decision to change out content and links.

That's about it. Don't speak for me.

He specifically said DVD's of the content that is part of the site. Also, he got paid a % for sending them member there but not a % of everything you sold them. Wouldn't waste my traffic on that either, ever.

i concur.

DVDs hinder retention. :1orglaugh

This translate to DVD's would change retention, so I didn't put words in your mouth.

Well, I would have to disagree with that. Our retention is amazing and for all the reasons the Doc mentioned, frequency of updates, ease of nav., good customer service.The DVDs are great... but you can only see our UNCUT versions online...

I was joking and being sarcastic, considering what his statement was regarding the DVDs not having an effect on the retention ;)

I simply said my personal experience, as of now, I believe it to be related to DVD sales. The dvd sells are everywhere and its obvious in my experience. Thats all.

And I encouraged othwers to maybe do a little research. Nothing wrong with that.