Thinking about going into the exclusive custom market more. What should we charge? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

woj · 09-27-2005, 01:02 AM

100........

MikeSmoke · 09-27-2005, 01:03 AM

wow, and woj was sitting there with his finger on the "submit" button, waiting for me to finish typing. Now THAT'S diligence.

woj · 09-27-2005, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSmoke

wow, and woj was sitting there with his finger on the "submit" button, waiting for me to finish typing. Now THAT'S diligence.

Bama · 09-27-2005, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyo

A paysite updating once per week needs 52 sets per year; that's $19,500 for a year's worth of content.

You've got some decent thought process in your post as a whole but if you think you'll have membership retention of 12+ months per member - you're dreaming!

The big boys with all the bells and whistles and exclusive content in their membership sections rarely retain a member for 5 months - most do only 3, non-nude 2 and that's cause the member forgot to cancel.

You could pretty safely rotate 6 months of exclusive content through the membership section and it would be "new" content to your members all the time because they're rotating out too.

This only applies to this particular photo shoot question however. Neither I, nor you, take into account the costs involved in initially stocking the membership section with enough different content/movies/live-recorded feeds.

Paul Markham · 09-27-2005, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

This has been my experience as well. I try to shoot 6 sets of pics and an hour of video for most of my clients but sometimes I can't achieve that and still keep the quality up there. Of course, I could shoot less quality and more sets of pics but luckily for me.....that's not what my clients are looking for

Same with me, I find after 3 or 4 scenes I'm getting bored, the model is getting pissed off and the PORNO value of the set is going down the tubes.

For a set to convert it has to capture the imagination of the viewer. This has to be done by more than just laying out the meat on the slab. The pose has to be right, the look on the models face has to be right, the angle of my shot has to be right and lastly I have to continually catch the models attention either in her look to the camera or her look at the other model.

We are portraying a vision of a hot, willing and ready for sex person. That's tough when youve been doing it non stop for 6 hours.

But unfortunately some buyers are more intersted in the cost per image or video minute than the porno element of a scene. Is this becasue there is no difference in content or they do not see it?

Because the guy spending $30 a month for sure sees it.

My attitude is the bottom of the ladder is more crowded than the top.

Paul Markham · 09-27-2005, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynaSpain

what makes you think u.s. models are superior? Because they have plastic tits or an american flag tattood on their ass? Half the world is shooting in (eastern) europe......what do you think that does to the rates of models? Apart from that I hate ignorant people that seem to think that just because it's out of the U.S. people will work for a dollar a day.

Good point.

When people tell me they want American models for stills I sometimes wonder what they mean. Because if you go back 3 generations in the US you are often dealing with an immigrant, go back 5 and the odds are higher.

So maybe by American they mean Red Indians. My view of American women is that many are over weight, most have an aggressive attitude and the "professional" models are about as reliable as English weather.

As you point out this area is knee deep in crews shooting content.

Paul Markham · 09-27-2005, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSmoke

This is something I don't understand why more shooters don't do - every once in a while over the years, I've found a provider who was happy to do extra scenes with girls he already had in for the day - and it worked out great for both sides. Since I'm in a specific niche and not competitive with whoever else they're shooting for, they can use the same outfit, props, whatever - for very little extra time spent, they throw the girl a little extra money, make more toward their cost of the shoot, and everyone comes out happy. I guess most shooters don't feel the need to do that, though, if everyone's paying $1500+ for a day's shooting. Pity.

Not true from my perspective. I'm more than willing to shoot one scene for a client. Maybe all in his T-Shirt or as you say to his particular needs.

As you point out the girl is there and shooting a set is on the cards. However it's not an extra scene. It's a scene we shoot for you instead of ourselves or someone else. If we book a model for a half day, 4 hours, we shoot 2-3 scenes, add yours on the top we have her for 5 hours. She needs paying extra. If we are shooting a girl for a full day, 6-7 hours, I'm not going to do an extra one at the end becasue it will not be good.

It all comes down to what you will pay to make it worthwhile.

Paul Markham · 09-27-2005, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bama

You've got some decent thought process in your post as a whole but if you think you'll have membership retention of 12+ months per member - you're dreaming!

The big boys with all the bells and whistles and exclusive content in their membership sections rarely retain a member for 5 months - most do only 3, non-nude 2 and that's cause the member forgot to cancel.

You could pretty safely rotate 6 months of exclusive content through the membership section and it would be "new" content to your members all the time because they're rotating out too.

This only applies to this particular photo shoot question however. Neither I, nor you, take into account the costs involved in initially stocking the membership section with enough different content/movies/live-recorded feeds.

He's a noobie and will learn. Most sites updating one set a week will lose members who will return in 6 months for a month and 24 new scenes.

We update 3 scenes a day on the paysite and 1-2 a of them are exclusive. We retain 3-4 months. The members simply get bored and move onto the next site for the next high. Some come back though. We were seeing the first rejoins after 4-5 months from cancellation.

MikeSmoke · 09-27-2005, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

If we book a model for a half day, 4 hours, we shoot 2-3 scenes, add yours on the top we have her for 5 hours. She needs paying extra.

As I said, they also throw the girl some extra money - but I guess it all comes down to the needs people have for specific scenes. I just look for girls looking sexy, smoking a couple of cigarettes - if there's no need for new outfit, new makeup, yada-yada, it's an extra 15 minutes, (5 minutes to reposition lights, and 10 minutes to smoke two cigarettes). Admittedly I haven't shot anywhere near as much as you or the other shooters on the board, but I've found very few girls who don't want to stay 15 minutes and smoke two cigarettes for an extra $50 lol

Paul Markham · 09-27-2005, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSmoke

As I said, they also throw the girl some extra money - but I guess it all comes down to the needs people have for specific scenes. I just look for girls looking sexy, smoking a couple of cigarettes - if there's no need for new outfit, new makeup, yada-yada, it's an extra 15 minutes, (5 minutes to reposition lights, and 10 minutes to smoke two cigarettes). Admittedly I haven't shot anywhere near as much as you or the other shooters on the board, but I've found very few girls who don't want to stay 15 minutes and smoke two cigarettes for an extra $50 lol

Most girls will say yes, so are you willing to pay $150 bucks for the extra 15 minutes work. On the basis of the girl earning $50, us earning $50 and the cost being $50.

There are costs on top of the models and the shooter. Cameras, lights, clothing, etc. All has to be paid out of the 1/3 of the price.

MikeSmoke · 09-27-2005, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Most girls will say yes, so are you willing to pay $150 bucks for the extra 15 minutes work. On the basis of the girl earning $50, us earning $50 and the cost being $50.

There are costs on top of the models and the shooter. Cameras, lights, clothing, etc. All has to be paid out of the 1/3 of the price.

absolutely - i don't try to be a free-loader, i just try to find a cost-effective way to obtain content that isn't overly hard to "add on." I've found one or two people over the years who love the extra money for the few minutes of extra work - most don't even want to consider it, though.

Paul Markham · 09-27-2005, 04:06 AM

The problem with some is they look on buying content like buying baked beans, one can is much like the next can.

Some even swear content has little to do with conversions and retention, which is strange as we are all in the business of selling content ultimately.

But this is interesting.

If you are converting 100 a day and improve your conversion rate by 1%, you earn an extra $52.50 a week. This is without added retention, added affiliates and added traffic.

Improve it by 10% and think of the extra money you bank.

Many ways to do it, getting the content right for the surfer is one way. The right girl, shot the right way and looking like she's ready to fuck the world for a pizza, will out perform a girl looking like she's tired, bored and looking at you as if she wants you to fuck off.

seven · 09-27-2005, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

As for the cost of models and people not wanting Czech girls, the biggest problem we have is the US crews here paying girls $1,000 a day or even a scene. So it seems many do want these girls.

U.S. crews pay upto $1000 for girls doing hardcore/extreme not solo shoots. For solo shoots rates are usually between $300-$400. So if you are paying your girls $500 for solos you are actually paying more than U.S. crews are

RogerV · 09-27-2005, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So what would you say was a fair price with a model costing $500 a day?

the models cost the same in Prague as the states now? I pay $300 per model in Florida.

RogerV · 09-27-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bama

You've got some decent thought process in your post as a whole but if you think you'll have membership retention of 12+ months per member - you're dreaming!

The big boys with all the bells and whistles and exclusive content in their membership sections rarely retain a member for 5 months - most do only 3, non-nude 2 and that's cause the member forgot to cancel.

You could pretty safely rotate 6 months of exclusive content through the membership section and it would be "new" content to your members all the time because they're rotating out too.

This only applies to this particular photo shoot question however. Neither I, nor you, take into account the costs involved in initially stocking the membership section with enough different content/movies/live-recorded feeds.

this is the damn truth

my members section rocks bigtime but its still about them forgeting to cancel.. people bitch about there phone bill and cable bill all the time
Porn is not a necessity its an impulse buy and they will cancel soon as they see the bill period unless your company is ATM

seven · 09-27-2005, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynaSpain

what makes you think u.s. models are superior? Because they have plastic tits or an american flag tattood on their ass? Half the world is shooting in (eastern) europe......what do you think that does to the rates of models? Apart from that I hate ignorant people that seem to think that just because it's out of the U.S. people will work for a dollar a day.

I'm sorry if it makes you upset but it simply is the fact that eastern euro economy isn't so great so lots of girls from there will do anything to get food in their plates. I have dated quite a few east euro women while in college to know this well.

Now, what I think makes u.s. models superior (for movies I mean however, still photos make little to no difference) is that I can convert u.s. models starred movies far better than I can east euro model starred movies. Like it or not the majority of the world is more interested in seeing a naked u.s. woman (maybe cos u.s. being the wealthiest country in the world or maybe cos they feel like if they could fuck an u.s. woman would mean they could fuck U.S.'s mom or whatever) than they are to see a naked east euro woman who they know would do anything for little money. Why would half the world want to shoot east euros if they were not cheaper?

Now sir, you have it

jonesy · 09-27-2005, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seven

Like it or not the majority of the world is more interested in seeing a naked u.s. woman (maybe cos u.s. being the wealthiest country in the world or maybe cos they feel like if they could fuck an u.s. woman would mean they could fuck U.S.'s mom or whatever) than they are to see a naked east euro woman who they know would do anything for little money.

ive read some crazy funny shit here bro but this rnakes it in the top ten of "thats some crazy shit/logic".

Paul Markham · 09-27-2005, 11:20 PM

There is a lot of crap here about costs.

Let me tell you the factors of pricing in their order of importance, this applies for widgets or porn.

(A) What you can get for it.
This has little to nothing to do with the cost of production. Mt niece is a new artist, good but unknown, she gets $3,000 for a painting that a known artist sells similar for $30,000. Do not compare my porn with a guy that started out last year, do not compare a girl like ANGIE with a girl like LINDA. They are totally different and will convert and retain differently. Putting them in the same price bracket is foolish. We pay Linda more then Angie.

Also as I've stated one of the main complaints of sponsors is "Non-exclusive is saturated" this is BS, because if it were true they would not be able to buy sets or videos for $150 to $200 a piece. Unless the producer is unable to open a store or his product will not sell six to ten times. A number that will never saturate a set or video.

(B) Pricing the competition out of the game.
When we first move to Czech there were lots of local shooters and Germans here shooting girls for $300 a day for hard core. Then the big companies moved in and decided to get rid of the competition, so raised the prices of models. It was a simple and effective move, if you can't afford to pay the models move on to other fields.

We use this policy on www.paulmarkham.com good content that many sites can afford to pay $40 to $50 for a set or video. They like the idea the set is not on 50 sites at $10 a time.

(C) The cost of living in CZ.
If everyone around you earns $500 a month then the econmy is geared to that. If the unemploment payout is $300 a moth you can live on it. If you live in one of these countries where wages are low so is the price of food, rent and all the basics. Your life style is geared to it. If you live in California your expectations are higher, your needs are higher and the pressure of earning money is also greater.

The first thing I noticed here in Czech was the lack of "greed" or need to earn money from the girls. Seven years later as the economy for many grows the greed and need are kicking in. As s shooter who lived in London I would say London girls are more likely to do things for money than Prague girls.

bigdog · 09-28-2005, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

this is the damn truth

my members section rocks bigtime but its still about them forgeting to cancel.. people bitch about there phone bill and cable bill all the time
Porn is not a necessity its an impulse buy and they will cancel soon as they see the bill period unless your company is ATM

i noticed that a while back, nice little trick

amacontent · 09-28-2005, 09:35 AM

How long have you been in the buis ??? Strange question

seven · 09-28-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bama

You could pretty safely rotate 6 months of exclusive content through the membership section and it would be "new" content to your members all the time because they're rotating out too.

Strongly disagree. We have a number of members who've been rebilling for 36+ months. if we set content to rotate every 6 months we'd lose them years ago. Besides the members who'd join in the 5th month would go thru the archives pretty quickly (unless ofcourse you're not archiving.. if you are not then you probably shouldn't offer a trial either

) and in their 2nd month when they see 6 months old content rotating in as new updates they're gonna cancel very quickly (if you do a good volume of initial sales that could be 1000s of cancellations). Not to mention those members cancelled few months earlier now returning to see new updates/additions will be prompting to chargeback also

Paul Markham · 09-28-2005, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seven

Strongly disagree. We have a number of members who've been rebilling for 36+ months. if we set content to rotate every 6 months we'd lose them years ago. Besides the members who'd join in the 5th month would go thru the archives pretty quickly (unless ofcourse you're not archiving.. if you are not then you probably shouldn't offer a trial either

) and in their 2nd month when they see 6 months old content rotating in as new updates they're gonna cancel very quickly (if you do a good volume of initial sales that could be 1000s of cancellations). Not to mention those members cancelled few months earlier now returning to see new updates/additions will be prompting to chargeback also

Very true, the rotating idea will work for some sites that retain for a few months but not those with a better level.

The members want new unseen content to jerk off to and if you do not give it they will go find someone who will.

With the cost on new non exclusive content so low I would say buy this to back up your exclusive, assuming it fits the niche. The surfer is only interested in whether he's seen it before and does not care about it being exclusive. Just don't buy the cheapest you can find. you're looking for content that is sold 1 to 10 times, cheap content sells 50 times, trust me I know the difference.

09-27-2005, 01:02 AM	#101
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	100........ __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

09-27-2005, 01:03 AM	#102
MikeSmoke Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SoCal Posts: 3,241	wow, and woj was sitting there with his finger on the "submit" button, waiting for me to finish typing. Now THAT'S diligence. __________________ icq: 541-739-92

09-27-2005, 04:06 AM	#112
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	The problem with some is they look on buying content like buying baked beans, one can is much like the next can. Some even swear content has little to do with conversions and retention, which is strange as we are all in the business of selling content ultimately. But this is interesting. If you are converting 100 a day and improve your conversion rate by 1%, you earn an extra $52.50 a week. This is without added retention, added affiliates and added traffic. Improve it by 10% and think of the extra money you bank. Many ways to do it, getting the content right for the surfer is one way. The right girl, shot the right way and looking like she's ready to fuck the world for a pizza, will out perform a girl looking like she's tired, bored and looking at you as if she wants you to fuck off. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

09-27-2005, 11:20 PM	#118
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	There is a lot of crap here about costs. Let me tell you the factors of pricing in their order of importance, this applies for widgets or porn. (A) What you can get for it. This has little to nothing to do with the cost of production. Mt niece is a new artist, good but unknown, she gets $3,000 for a painting that a known artist sells similar for $30,000. Do not compare my porn with a guy that started out last year, do not compare a girl like ANGIE with a girl like LINDA. They are totally different and will convert and retain differently. Putting them in the same price bracket is foolish. We pay Linda more then Angie. Also as I've stated one of the main complaints of sponsors is "Non-exclusive is saturated" this is BS, because if it were true they would not be able to buy sets or videos for $150 to $200 a piece. Unless the producer is unable to open a store or his product will not sell six to ten times. A number that will never saturate a set or video. (B) Pricing the competition out of the game. When we first move to Czech there were lots of local shooters and Germans here shooting girls for $300 a day for hard core. Then the big companies moved in and decided to get rid of the competition, so raised the prices of models. It was a simple and effective move, if you can't afford to pay the models move on to other fields. We use this policy on www.paulmarkham.com good content that many sites can afford to pay $40 to $50 for a set or video. They like the idea the set is not on 50 sites at $10 a time. (C) The cost of living in CZ. If everyone around you earns $500 a month then the econmy is geared to that. If the unemploment payout is $300 a moth you can live on it. If you live in one of these countries where wages are low so is the price of food, rent and all the basics. Your life style is geared to it. If you live in California your expectations are higher, your needs are higher and the pressure of earning money is also greater. The first thing I noticed here in Czech was the lack of "greed" or need to earn money from the girls. Seven years later as the economy for many grows the greed and need are kicking in. As s shooter who lived in London I would say London girls are more likely to do things for money than Prague girls. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

09-28-2005, 09:35 AM	#120
amacontent STANLEY CUP CHAMPION ! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 13,001	How long have you been in the buis ??? Strange question __________________ Joe Loughlin [email protected] TEAM- joeloughlin. Telegram - AMA_JOE https://www.amaproduction.com