250........... :)

Please! Does anyone have IP tracking? Abyss VEE or Al use your real name ok? You don't need to set up new profiles to pretend you are the ONE person that came to Al's defense. Give me a break! You, my friend are the truly pathetic one.

You, my friend, are on GLUE! Why in the hell would I want to promote my new site design on GFY. Webmasters don't sign up for websites! And I don't have an affiliate program. So stop making yourself look stupid!

Oh thats great...
I am sorry I was using the wrong nic. Since I can not directly attack you with it I will use my real nic.

You are definatly a naive little girl.

You come to break Al's ass over some photos he was not happy releasing, he spent time with you, prepped your photos, and I am sure he was fun to work with during the shoot.

He was obviously busy and there was some communications problems.
He got you the fucking photos that you are now whinning about and now insulting him about...

You are truly classless.
You smell of trouble.

Good luck with your site, your doing a grat job so far stepping on people to get ahead. In the long run though...

It just makes you an ugly person and people will see that in time.

Al has shot many girls and never a problem, he has been commissioned by industry pro's for his work and professionalism...

You new girl and dean are making a common GFY Noob mistake.

Today you think ya just look good in the end you are predators.

Wake the fuck Alien, did you bother to even read the thread, it appears not. She waited 4 months and didn't hear from Al and couldn't get in touch with him via email, icq etc.... He admitted in the beginning of the thread he dropped the ball and completely forgot. All he had to do was zip them up and send them to her. A few more days go by and still no photos and she posts again.

Al's sensitive huge ego finds it so offensive that someone would communicate with him via gfy, so he lies about deleting the files just to spite her. Its only after he gets called out for his unprofessional behavior in this thread that his cohort Vee has to step in and admit that Al lied about deleting the files and has to mop up his mess.

At the very least Bobbi deserved an apology and shouldn't have had to endure this thread to get her pics from four months ago. I can see how you would defend this unprofessionalism Alienq, we've all seen your professional standards of communication on the boards.

Ou la la ... elle sait se defendre la mademoiselle 0_o

Congrat pour le recent fan sign, :) malheureusement je l'ai ratée de quelques minutes :( j'aurait bien aimer mais avec le décalage horaire c'etait au beau milieu de la nuit pour moi.

still was nice from you to do it, hope you understand french, i take a chance :)

You with *7* posts to GFY have something to contribute? Why don't you come back in 30 days when you've got something REAL to contribute TROLL..

It was Alienq, funny after all his incessant whining about fake nicks, he has one.

Man, are we really going to re-hash this all again?

Bobbi got the pictures, end of story. Everything else is irrelevant.

I'm sure people are going to talk shit in private, but it's over as far as the public BS is concerned.

She went on vacation for about 20 days.
Abyss went to mammoth for 2 weeks, then florida for week ( the florida show)
He moved Offices, that in itself requires systems to be torn down and moved and takes time as well..

One of Abyss's guys that corrects photos was not around for another couple weeks.

Clearly time was of a duration.
A communication problem is all it was in my opinion.

He posted a screen cap. He was nice and even set up a download point while discs were being delivered. This thread was pushed as a promo at his expense on some photos he probably had a hard time correcting or maybe even releasing. I am a perfectionist. If I do somthing that I do not like, I do not release them.
Not to mention there were alot of events in between the duration.
Plausible and excusable ones in my opinion. Its not like the photos were going to be used for commercial purposes.
Or am I wrong?

Bobbi was commisioned for a full day shoot.
At the end of the shoot to knock some time out he did a few sets for her.Al did her the favor of shooting them for her FREE.

Sure it is a cluster fuck but I can understand a few things here between the lines. I like Al. He is a good guy and he did not do this out of spite. He should be angry to be taken advantage of in this manor.

All Al got for doing her a favor for free in the first place is get kicked in the side for it.

No good deed goes un punished huh?

Feeling guilty yet little Miss Bob?

Yeah I thought so.

You scummi bitch.

You are clueless aren't you, she did him a favor by shooting with him for free. All of your points regarding the timeline don't mean anything because Al simply said he dropped the ball and forgot to get her the pics. She didn't go on vacation and who cares if he went on vacation he had an obligation to get her the pics in a timely manner and he failed.

You always seem to lose complete objectivity regarding a situation because of your ties to one party. Take a step back and think about one of your clients if they had to wait 4 months to hear back from you regarding a project. Instead of apologizing would you then begin to tell your client all kinds of excuses about how you went on vacations and had to move offices and then berate your client for even inquiring as to the status? As unprofessional as you can be on the boards sometimes, I don't even think you would act in this manner.

AlienQ, you don't know SHIT.

a) Bobbi did NOT go on vacation for 20 days. She was SUPPOSED to, but she only ended up going for about a week.

b) She gave Al the benefit of the doubt:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=467612

He responded in that thread that he would get this resolved. At this point, she had already been waiting a few weeks to get the pictures. THIS WAS IN MAY (!)..

c) I SAW the images he sent her. They were NOT color corrected or touched up. If they were, he needs to FIRE his color corrector.

d) A comminication problem for fourt months? Give me a break. He CLEARLY didn't want to send her those pictures.

e) Bobbi was comissioned for a full day shoot for CyberAge Dave and his clothing line. She was NOT wearing those clothes in the photos for Al. Clearly, it was a TFP *AFTER* the fact. I'm sure Bill (who was at the shoot) or CyberAge Dave can verify this as well.

f) She was LUCKY?!? that he shot her for free? Please. It's a two-way street. He was just as lucky she shot with him for free, considering she never does TFP.

g) You may like Al (hell, I liked Al before this all went down) but he was CLEARLY in the wrong here, and I know why things happened the way they did. All I can say is, if you make a mistake, you own up to it.

Why is it AlienQ, that you and your fake nic were the only ones supporting Abyss Al in this whole thread?

Scummi bitch? You are truly clueless.

You want to pick on someone? Pick on me. Leave her out of it.

"You are clueless aren't you, she did him a favor by shooting with him for free."

You people get so choked up about a pretty girl that ya forget its business.

Pro's are not desperate dudes wanting a glimpse of some ass for pictures to jerk off to later.

Al shot that shit for free and they were destined to be in her site.
Umm thats taking his work and utilizing it for commercial purposes.

He did her a mother fucking favor.

He never had to release them in the first place if he did not want to.
In my opinion he should not have released them period.

Because I have Balls Mr Big E.
More so than 3/4's the retards here that see a pretty girl and pull out there cocks. I am about business. This girl is bad news.

Is it true you used to stick Little Miss Bob?

You sit and cry on the shoulder of a self proclaimed victim, I see the real victim here.

Sorry AlienQ, get your facts straight. I dropped her off and then picked her up at the airport for a business trip a that was exactly 9 days long. June 8th to June 17th according to my records. But once I again I ask how the hell this anything to do with anything; ABYSS HAS HER MAILING ADDRESS!

What else.. you are right about communication problems oh insolent one, if Abyss is going through a business hell, then they should have said so rather than trying to misdirect or just out and out lie about things. We've all been through that before. But the fact remains: 4 MONTHS??? And as I said on page 3, once you get caught in a lie, the business relationship is screwed.

Sure he posted a screen cap, to talk about a mailing that has yet to occur..

Finally, all the niceties in the world don't excuse never delivering, and to me that is what was occurring. I guess you belong to the "if I say BS enough times, people will begin to believe it" school of thought. Feel guilty? If Bobbi should be feeling anything right now, it's a sense of accomplishment. To many models I know would have sat back and moved on to the next shoot, content to be used. She refused.

Do you even know what a TFP is and how it works? I'll let Big E fill you in, he knows much more than I do, you seem completely clueless on their agreement.

BULLSHIT.

What major models did he have in his portfolio before he shot Bobbi? Who did he get AFTER he shot Bobbi? Sunny Leone. He benefitted more from the trade that she did. Hell, she hasn't even had access to her images these past four months.

So you think that TFP means the photographer gets to keep the photos if he wants to? Show me ONE person who agrees with that. You're a fucking idiot.

Who cares when or why not the photos were to be released.

Al NEVER had to release them in the first place.
It was his work as well at stake that he compromised and rendered his services free for sets to use in her site.

This is not Prints for Time.
Its called taking advantage of somone then kicking him in the face for it.

You have no balls keyboard warrior.

I would defend any model from a photographer who was trying to take advantage of her.

Al never had to release them? Uhh, yes. It's called a verbal contract. He agrees to shoot her for free. She agrees to model for free. They are both able to use the content.

Yes, it is "Time For Prints". You obviously have no FUCKING clue what you're talking about.

I used to tolerate your posts because I'm a "live and let live" kind of guy, but I can see why people get so frustrated with you, because you take irrational sides to an argument.

How can someone argue that the photographer doesn't have to give the models her images in a TGP arrangement? You're the ONLY one who believes that.

How was Al taking advantage of her?

Explaine this?
He did the photos for free and they were to be used in her site.
She collected money for a full day shoot and managed to get free photos for her site on the location she was commissioned to perform at afterwards!

They had extra time dude.
He didnt have to take pictures of her but he did it to be nice.

Explain this dipshit: she was hired for the day to do shoots in CyberAge Dave's clothing. Why are the photos Al took "afterwards" NOT in those clothes? Because she BROUGHT HER OWN CLOTHES and those shots were NOT what she was paid for.

Face it, you don't shit about the situation so why are you even commenting?

Its not his fault alien... he's just stuck up her ass at the moment... he'll come to realize

Awright lets goto Verbal contract then.

Thats even better.

The photos were taken and he had no intention to use them commercially however Bobbi was going to take them and place them in her site.

Now Prints for Time is an agreement where commercial purposes should be discussed before hand. Looks like she got the prints to use commercially in her site while umm..

Abyss uses them for what?
His own Portfolio?

Lets see Prints for Time is for Portfolio work. A single girls site is commercial.

you stupid dumb motherfucker.... how is bobbi a major model? :1orglaugh

you think sunny came to me because of her? :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

and once again IT WASNT TFP! can you comprehend that in your little head? or would you like me to draw a diagram? she was paid for a full day... ALL exclusive... and dont even get me going about her "crazy rate" thats nowhere near what a photographer charges... :1orglaugh ...

Bill308os- go home surfer... you know nothing.. youre just a member on her site... TROLL :321GFY
http://www.abyssent.com/abyss_al/bb2.jpg

Yeah, I would say that I am naive. I trusted that I would get my photos from Al and I tried to reach him so many times that I had no choice but to ask him nicely on the boards.

No, I actually came on here and thanked him here: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=230 Then someone bumped the thread and he posted that ICQ capture that proves nothing. He is using that as proof when it actually backs up my story. It's comical. He is telling people that I know that I am a liar when he is the one who lied. He told me he sent these 2 weeks ago NEXT DAY AIR. Did you know that? They never arrived and I never got the tracking number either. You know why? Because there wasn't one...

No I didn't come here to break Al's ass over "photos he was not happy releasing". I came here because you guys keep attacking me when all I tried to do was get my pictures. Where are you getting your info from? Al was posting those pics all over GFY. If he wasn't happy releasing them, this is news to me. But upon seeing them, I am thinking that he was embarrassed to release these photos because I am so dark in a lot of them, that you can't see anything. It's like a sillouette. I never said anything about whether or not he was fun to work with or that I had fun at my shoot. That wasn't the issue here. I did a TFP with him so that I could get content for my site. And I was trying to get the photos. That's it. End of story.

He was obviously busy and there was some communications problems? Yeah, I'll say!!! I contacted him via 3 methods... phone, email, and ICQ MANY TIMES and could not get a response. About the only thing left to do was send smoke signals and go on GFY! What did you expect me to do when I tried and tried and tried to get a hold of him and could not get a response thru 3 methods of communication? Just ignore it and go away. God! How dare I ask him nicely on GFY! Get a friggin clue!!!!!!! Yes, he got the photos and as I said above I thanked him until you came on here to stir the pot again.

Whom have I stepped on to get up to the top? Your attempts at saying that I am "classless", a troublemaker, and "an ugly person" are all unwarranted and unfounded. All I did was ask for my photos. I was nice until Al was saying he deleted my pics, etc. I don't see how asking for my photos makes me a bad person but if that's your logic, then whatever.

So Al has shot many girls and never a problem and he has been commissioned by industry pro's for his work and professionalism. If that's true great. I didn't go over his track record with a fine toothed comb. I have a great repuatation in my industry for my professionalism etc... And your point is what? It still doesn't change the fact that I had a hell of a time getting my photos from him and he bashed me in the process when all I did was ask nicely. It doesn't say much about his reputation now because he did this publicly and many people in the industry saw it and were shocked by his behavior. Read the thread instead of listening to the BS he's feeding you. He could have put his ego aside and done what's right but he's young still. Maybe he'll figure it out someday.

And contrary to popular belief, I'm not NEW. I've been online since 98 or maybe even earlier. And I've been reading GFY for years...

And the only predator here seems to be you. Get your facts straight before posting next time.

A portfolio isn't a commerical process? If you're a photographer for hire, you don't use your portfolio to get new work?

And she didn't have these images until this weekend, FOUR MONTHS AFTER THE FACT.

So let's see now, you first disagreed that this was TFP. Now you apparently agree that it was TFP but you don't think it's fair that she gets to use the images under a TGP agreement. What's your next bullshit argument? I'll keep knocking them down if you like.. ?

Fact is straight.
As a photographer he had the right all along to never release the photos. He ultimatly has the final say when he will release the photos if at all.
He could have elected to scrap them and not use them at all for NOTHING. Nada zero zilch it would be a non released work. Sure its bitch for the photographer and the model but ultimatly it would be his right all along.

Instead you little miss bobbi put a gun to his head and demand the photos while slandering him.

Big E its not TFP dumbass.
If the content is implemented commercially it is no longer TFP.

TFP is a term for Portfolio's which do not cross commercial lines generally.Is Bobbi's site a portfolio or is it a commercial site genious?

Bobbi isn't a major model? She's had her own website since 1998, she's got a shitload of inbound links to her website. How is that not being a major model?

She's been on the cover of Muscular Development, was on "Son of a Beach", etc. How is that not a major model?

You're saying you weren't begging to shoot her when you first started talking to her? You were kissing her ass.

CyberAge Dave can answer this: CyberAge Dave, were the images that Abyss Al shot of Bobbi that WEREN'T in your clothes part of the package? Do you have a license to use those images? Of course not. Kinda fucks up your argument huh Al?

IT WAS TFP AND YOU KNOW IT YOU FUCKING SCAMMER PHOTOGRAPHER!

Al, I know what happened - I saw the images. You fucked up on the camera settings and they came out like complete shit, just like Dean said (how prescient!). They were so dark as to be unusable (don't make me post them here to embarass you).

I know you're capable of good stuff - Sunny's pictures turned out really good.

If you'd have just said, "Bobbi, listen I made a mistake with these images and they didn't turn out well", this would have been NOTHING.. no big deal. But you had to protect your king-sized fucking ego and you got your ass handed to you (thanks GFY!)

Lol, she simply asked for her photos, where did she put a gun to his head and where did she slander him? Do you consistenly enjoy mistating facts in order to back up your claims? If she had never made a thread she still would not have her photos, at what point is acceptable for her to post regarding them, 6 months, 9 months, a year? Also the photos are so poor they won't even be on her site, so does that now make them non commercial and a tfp in place?

Where is this "legal" definition of TFP? :1orglaugh Please show me this! I refuse to listen to anything else you say until you show me the LAW that says TFP can't be used for 'commercial' purposes.

Exactly, nail on the head.

Here Al...

next time do not get hustled.

http://www.springlakemi.com/photogem...delRelease.htm

Print this for TFP.

There are legal agreements for TFP.

BigE...
I swear for a rep at Mac and Bumble I thought you would be more aware of what photographers rights are and models rights are. You are just a guy in the middle for the sig views. Oh and hoping to get fucked again by Bobbi. Werent you two a thing?

That explaines alot about this thread...

AlienQ, why are you even arguing this TFP point?

Abyss Al agreed that he was going to give her these pictures already WAY back in the thread (and other threads).

Why would he tell her to contact him to get the pictures in the May thread if he had no intention of giving her the pictures?

Hell, he even agreed to send them in THIS thread:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...3&postcount=16

There is no question that it WAS *TFP* and he KNEW he was supposed to send the pictures. There's NO debate about that. Anything to the contrary is after the fact.

It is no longer TFP if the content is to be used within a commercial site.
Technically.

Now...
He agreed to shoot her for free.

And now look...

Oh boy...

Abyss gets slandered for doing something for free while she makes off with the content for use within her site. Crossing the line with TFP and right into Commercial.

That's one particular implementation of a TFP contract. This all would have been much clearer had a contract been involved, but ONE contract doesn't make it the "law" as you suggest. Different companies have different contracts - Mac and Bumble's contract is most likely not the same as someone like Twistys, even though we do pretty much the same thing. Nice try though.

As for Bobbi and I, what does that have to do with anything? I would go to bat for ANY model that was getting screwed over by a photographer, because as I said before, it poisons the well for ALL photographers.

As I previously stated, this issue is over as far as I'm concerned. Bobbi got her pictures, so there should be nothing less to discuss. But I'm not going to let you (or anyone else) trash her.

WHo cares what he agreed to or when to send them if at all.

It is his creative work.
And look...

Now.

Maybe he didnt want to release them, he never had to release them period. Its is his perogative when he would release them if at all.

Its a non issue in this debate.
Except when the Model demands them and slanders him in the process.

SHOW ME THE FUCKING LAW THAT SAYS THIS!

You showed one contract that someone has implemented for TFP. If I post an M&B contract, does that mean that M&B's contract is THE law for all phorographers? No, it just means that's how that particular contract was set up.

Again, contracts that explicitly state how and where the images can be used should really be used in these circumstances, but neither Al or Bobbi decided to do that.

Big E...

Little info here...
It was not Bobbi getting screwed.

He didn't get slandered, he merely was asked for the photos he told her he would send her. You continue to argue something that goes against what Al has said. He said he would send her the pics, he forgot, why are you making this much more than it is?

You know it's ILLEGAL to accuse someone of a crime that they're not guilty of?

A "surfer" with an LAX parking structure receipt to be used come tax time. Sorry buddy, keep pushing that her "vacation" contributed to this mess, and I'll keep replying that this 1) wasn't a vacation, 2) was cut short to 9 days, and 3) is completely irrelevant when the only information you could possibly need from her was her address, which you already had. You don't even have the final dates right. A few days before she was scheduled to leave, the schedule was extended beyond the dates shown in that screen cap.

You're just ticked because everytime you push a lie on here, someone's there to refute it. That a "surfer" is doing is just adding insult to injury...

High drama huh

That crosses right into Slander in a big way Mr. Big E, Mac and Bumble, after demanding the photos publicly.


I wouldnt say so if it were not true.

Go back and look at Al's first reponse in this thread "sorry got busy with new project and completely forgot about it.... hit me up and send me addy to send the pics"

If he had no intention of giving her the pics, he would never have replied in this manner. By saying he completely forgot he's implying that he's late in his intention to get her the pics. This contradicts your assumptive scenario that maybe he didn't want to release them and had no timeline in mind.

epassporte/paypal -> e-gold/webmoney
 

I need around $60 in my e-gold/webmoney account.. anyone able to do that? let me know how mutch you will charge.. thanks