So in response to Fletch's email LAST THURSDAY I replied:


(continued... we'll get to what the original agreement with fletch was in a minute)

nooo oh well missed it

This is another reason why you shouldnt deal with DOnny.

he is notorious for posting emails and icq.

note: i have done none of this.

Id rather DOnny not post any icq logs or emails that were part of a "deal"

I think this is pretty unprofessional to say the least.

Donny, watch your step.

Since Choker and Burger Boy made up, we need all the drama we can muster up.

AND AGAIN!

none of this has anything to do with use of my promo material.

he is just into drama and wants to post emails and icq logs instead of simply PAYING ME.

see how he works?

The original deal had no mention of use of those materials to push any other sites than the tour Fletch did.

to which i replied my epass.

as well as charge $15 a piece instead of 20 per banner.

3. So, as my reply to email shows, I was very cordial and fully intended to pay him. He told me he'd take $515 for the materials in question and call it good. I never replied to that email with the price. Why? Because I got to thinking about our original agreement. Then I looked it up. Then I started thinking, "No, this isn't right. Fletch does not deserve that much money all things considered. Maybe half that amount, but not full price."

So over the weekend I gave it a bit of thought, trying to figure out how to tell him this. Fletch blows up REALLY quickly when you don't agree with him, and I didn't want to cause drama. But I also don't want to be fucked over, even on such a small amount. I believe in paying someone what they deserve now matter how big or small that amount may be.

So let's go on to #4 and talk about that original agreement.... then let the court of GFY decide if I'm being unfair...

(continued)

im the gfy judge of the night since juicy is away

Holy shit its like kids in a school yard. For Christ sake, pay the guy and move on with life.

If you're using the banners for anything other than what you had originally agreed they be used for you're scamming the guy.

Crawfish swim backwards. They scoot with their tail really fast, its funny to watch.

Yep, as he said!!!!!

Thank you. I have seen many crawfish or mudbugs just would of never gotten that refference.

I'm waiting for the last reply...

Gotta love GFY drama.

His designs convert poorly? If I had a nickel for every time you boasted and bragged how great his simple designs converted, I could probably buy a pretty nice steak dinner downtown.

I hope this isn't fake drama. I would be really disappointed in a few people.

My guess is he is going to post something about how I was supposed to design this and that and blah blah blah.

What he will leave out is after this deal we had fall out and his partner fucked him as well as me over. Donovan was to use my services for 9+ tours and ended up having somone copy my design instead. SO thats where all the bad started.

There was no way I was going to provide ANY more graphics to this guy after his partner pulled his shit. I washed my hands of it.

Sly, I assure you it is very real. I think many can tell when im just gagging.

Now I am not though.

There is no fake drama on GFY, only fake nicks.

Fletch

from your rent a troll link you have in your sig:

Postal Designer - Let us go completely insane and come at you for no reason at all. We can go berserk over a tour design, we can claim to have innovated a technique or concept. The possibilities with this one are endless and very versatile.

Hmmm is this just fake drama?

Reminds me Lou from Karups talking about the content of Naughtyamerica while he was paying for them for several years. People learn NOT to be biased that much, it doesnt benefit you in any way or form......

The banners are for "Naked College Girls TV" the paysite.

He is using them and linking his blog. A blog?

I mean, come on.

Like i want MY PROMO being used to promote a blog he pays someone to update :1orglaugh

If he can pay to have his blog updated, he can pay me for my banners he uses to send traffic to his blog.

4. THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT (and why I didn't hold him to it):

I offered Fletch a deal to receive 50% of ALL SALES made on a new tour for Naked College Girls. Why? Because I really wanted to try out a partnership with him and see how having a designer on hand would work out. I offered to provide all content and hosting. He'd provide design and promo materials.

Fletch told me that he couldn't really afford to put the time into such a project because he lose out on paid assignments during the time spent constructing this new tour.

So I told him that I understood that and offered to pay him full price for the tour itself: $500. I'd still pay him 50% of all sales in addition to this $500 payment if he'd keep on top of decent promo materials for affiliates. He agreed, I gave him 500 bucks and he got busy.

The first day the tour launched it did really well (ratio wise) for some reason. When it fell to shit the very next day I thought the reason was most likely because the first day had to be from signups from surfers/posters from GFY. The days afterward the ratios went all to shit. I mean, they were HORRIBLE.

So I didn't hold Fletch to his part of the bargain: making new promo materials on a regular basis for affiliates to promote. I felt bad. I didn't want to come out and tell the guy that his designs sucked because I hate hurting anyone's feelings. But I also didn't want to see him waste his time making new promo materials for a tour that doesn't convert and I sure as hell didn't want to pay him another 500 bucks to build another non-converting tour.

So I didn't ride his ass to keep up his end of the deal. He has not made a single new bit of promo materials in a year and a half. And yet I left the 50/50 split in place. CCBill pays it out automatically.

Want to see exactly how bad this tour has done? Here's the amounts paid to Fletch. This is after affiliates are paid and ccbill takes their percentage. The 50/50 amount is shown here:

http://www.donovanphillips.com/image...-to-fletch.jpg

Note the dates. I set them back as far as they'd go (even before the tour existed) to make sure to catch all checks. $582.36. That's what Fletch was paid. And since I get 50% too, that's what I've been paid from that tour. So subtract the 500 bucks paid to fletch for the design and I'm at $82.36. Subtract bandwidth and I'm in the negative. That doesn't even include my time.

He complained today that I don't send traffic to his tour. Duh.. there is no new promo material for affiliates to use to send it traffic. But here are the residual traffic stats for the last few months anyway:

http://www.donovanphillips.com/image...-tour1.ncg.jpg

This month, August, you'll notice that 22,251 uniques were sent. Know how many sales resulted? 1. As in O-N-E. That's it.

On to number 5 and why I believe Fletch is not owed as much as he's asking for

So far in every one of your posts you've admitted in being wrong. And last time I checked, you don't decide what to pay someone, you pay them what they charge you. If you don't want to pay him, don't use them I think he has made this clear several times now.

Hate to tell ya, but if he wanted to he could get a LOT more money out of you for copyright infringements, and he has a whole shit load of free gov't services to help him collect, including the US Marshals at his disposal...

My suggestion would be to pay him, or stop using them...

sig killed

well at least this time its only 30 something banners. Last time it was 9 paysite designs ripped. Donny is a great design client. :1orglaugh

he rented one of his own trolls?? :helpme

I think I am being pretty rational here.

No names called, just stating facts.

I find it hard to believe you two can't get on the phone and work this out fairly and once and for all.

Come on. You can do it.

sorry to say but you guys should have split the moment that happened :2 cents:

i didnt provide anything after that. this tour and promo deal was what started all of this ;)

I learned my lesson, this was before the girl site issue

only the good die young

5. WHY I DON'T THINK HE'S OWED $515:

Fletch is supposed to create new promo materials on a consistent basis in order to receive his 50/50 split. Like I said, the tour converted so shitty that I felt bad holding him to it, so I haven't said anything in a year and a half to make him hold up his end. I've held up mine. Everything he's created is available to affiliates. I don't even badmouth that tour and ask them to avoid it, as I probably should do so affiliates are aware of how shitty it converts.

He's been paid $582.36 for something he didn't earn. I feel that if he wants to be an ass about things I can easily ask him to refund that amount to me since he's not honoring the agreement he made to receive that money in the first place.

This morning when I tried to point this stuff out to him I intended to offer him $250 just to keep up good relations even though he doesn't deserve it in my opinion but he didn't even let me get that far before letting his hot temper get the best of him.

So now I'm of the opinion that he needs to live up to his agreement or refund the $582.36 he's been paid. Then I'll gladly pay him his full $515.

So Fletch, ya owe me $582.36 - $515 = $67.36 Epassporte or check?

What do i need to get on the phone for?

To hear him tell me he doesnt think I am owed anything?

you have no contract, nothing in writing.

you make this shit up as you go.

you dont even have proof you paid for the banners.

ummm, is this issue (from your POV) the ability of his designs to convert?

Just wondering

I tried solving this. Fletch brought it to the boards. So the story had to be told.

A couple of months ago on my board donny made threads about how good it converted, under 1:200. you made threads on gfy too about how good it did.

your threads state otherwise.

ok so the story is told.

you going to pay me or take the stuff down?

yeah Fletch needs to give Donny even MORE promo to use for his other sites. :1orglaugh

for freeeee! see what I mean? This is absolutely retarded. Donny is like dealing with a kid who changes his mind at will to suit his needs.

what a fucking waste of time.

A summary of the 9 sites thing in one sentence:

Fletch was paid $500 initially for that and then another $1,000 BY ME after he bitched when the table template he made for it was duplicated by SOMEONE ELSE on sites I DIDN'T OWN.

Enough said. He hasn't been fucked in either situation.

In fact this time HE OWES ME $67 and change.

children, please see sig and grab a tissue

Hey Fletch for $15/banner, wonna do some banners for me? :) that's a steal!

from another board:


03-14-2005, 11:28 PM

On day one it converted well. I just said that. I didn't want to embarrass you by revealing what happened after that. 1:22,000 for August 2005 so far.

a question to both of you.

Why didnt you make more attempts for a new tour or tweaking it? It's rarely to get great results with the first tour you'll put up.

So then why did you mislead others by saying how great his designs converted?

see what DOnny is like dealing with in a week? ^^^

one minute he says he will pay me, then he changes his mind. This is continuous through everything he does.

After his partner copied my design for a fl;ock of paysites I was to do, I stopped providing graphics for DOnny.

The tour has not been updated because I dont even push it, I asked him to remove it but he wont.

he keeps pulling shit like this.

My guess is converting good and he is just telling lies.

he brags about it converting good when we are cool, then when he gets busted stealing from me, its "what a shitty tour"

lies, all lies.

Where is there anything in the contract that gives you the right to all of a sudden determine fletch's payment for design work based on the profitablility of the site in question? You made an unprofitable business decision, take it like a man and pay your expenses and try and salvage a break even after everyone has been paid out.

You both say you tried to solve this.... but so far i'm not seeing it.

Wouldn't it be better to just pay Fletch the originally-agreed-upon price for the work and be done with it?

This is why I never go in for any kinds of these little "partnerships" and such. I'm a one-man act here, and when I DO do work for someone else the work gets done and the payment gets made... clean and simple.


But I know that you two are capeable of working something like this out over the phone.... in private. I know it.