.XxX is dead.

Good night.

What the fuck are you talking about? are you seriously wasting everyone's time here arguing that the industry should have pushed for .xxx itself so we'd have the funds and influence to stop the commerce department shutting it down so we couldn't have the funds and influence to stop it?

If i had a lithium baseball bat it would be my preferred method of medicating you.

I don?t know what to say except those who support this .XXX shame on you fuckers, this is going to end our industry and put us in a place that we all just can?t imagine. All those who are listed as supporters and those now that openly support this .XXX we should not do any biz with them period.

FUCK .XXX AND ALL THAT SUPPORT IT........................... I hope that the FSC takes this on and makes it just go away...we spent our money and have reached out to them to make the case that this should be something they need to take very seriously.

I can't argue with you Mike.

My thoughts exactly.

agree :thumbsup

.xxx is a wonderful idea, but what happens if countries other than the US get the internets?

:upsidedow

Fear is the mind killer.

What's important to understand is just because Commerce DOES have the power doesn't mean that they will USE the power. In other words, ICANN does NOT have the final say. Whether or not Commerce will step up remains to be seen. But their annoucement on Thursday makes it impossible for them to pass the buck entirely to ICANN and wipe their hands clean of this.

Alien, if you don't want to bewilder people you can't say that you "support" dot-xxx and then try to clarify that you support it only "if" it would be done right. That's why you are confusing everyone, because we all know that it WILL NOT be done right. You have two choices on this:

1) Fight against dot-xxx (and maybe support .kids instead).

2) Support dot-xxx as ICM REGISTRY will implement it.

If you understand how ICM Registry will implement it, what ICM supporters have already said about how they plan to get webmasters to use .xxx domain names, about the congressmen lined up to make this mandatory, about the technical maneuvers that could be used to FUCK UP BUSINESS for those who stay on dot-com domains, about the credit card processing risks, etc, etc, etc... then I don't see how you can accept option 2.

THERE IS NO OPTION 3!!! We are not presented with any third alternative by which dot-xxx could be implemented in a manner that is beneficial to the adult industry. It is ICM's way or the highway. Period.

And one more matter to clear up... the risk isn't that Visa stops processing for dot-xxx sites. The risk is they stop processing for dot-com adult sites, thus FORCING everyone to use dot-xxx domain names or lose 60% plus of their business. And then once you're on a dot-xx domain name (at $60 to $75 per domain), pressure is them put on companies like Google and Yahoo and ISPs etc to restrict traffic flows to dot-xxx sites. So you're stuck choosing between dot-com and no Visa, or dot-xxx and less traffic. Both choices stink. THAT is the situation this industry will almost certainly find itself in if this dot-xxx proposal goes through.

Do you understand now?

Yeah, for those running the registry.

And for those in the adult industry who sold the rest of us out.

THERE IS NO OPTION 3!!! We are not presented with any third alternative by which dot-xxx could be implemented in a manner that is beneficial to the adult industry. It is ICM's way or the highway. Period.


There is always an option.

But yeah maybe I am confusing that I might be opposed to this version of .xxx. I think in Foorida webmasters should tell these guys to change the rules or it is a no go. There is always an option.

This version of .xxx so far is not so good, pull them to the table get involved change the rules get what we want out of .xxx then decide. I myself know the internet and the way it works is never set in stone.

Never.

what is your "better' way fo handling .XXX. Quit BSing around and tell us this grand idea of yours.

Oh so we are now in a posistion to tell them how to do it? This is not the case, nor will it ever be the case. And even if it were the case, we would still be opening ourselves up to really bad things.

As far as I can tell, Connor added the comment in his article that the Commerce Department can veto TLD's and the previous paragraphs had not mentioned the adult industry. Therefore at least as the article was written, it is pure optimism to jump from the ability of the Commerce Department to veto XXX, to assuming any intention or willingness to do so.

I suspect XXX is coming, whether it is good for us or not. It is too useful a tool for the crusaders to pass up. And frankly we deserve it. For every webmaster even writing a few negative words on a board like this, there are probably an hundred figuring out how to make a few bucks from it and five hundred more waiting for the next "would you hit it" post.

At best the introduction of XXX domains does no harm, but offers zero benefits for anyone - inside or outside the industry - except the registrar and domain-sitters. At worst, it has the potential to cripple our business and leaves us totally dependent on non-industry bodies such as the ACLU - for their own reasons - to successfully come to our defense.

Online porn, particularly for US webmasters, is in for a very rough ride over the next few years. It would be cozy to imagine that if we finally found the will to sideline the outright scams and the borderline commercial practises, and heaven forbid, cut ourselves off from those who peddle extreme content, we could divert our critics. We certainly haven't endeared ourselves to anyone, including the credit card companies, but I think we are kidding ourselves to imagine that cleaning up our act now is going to help. We are going to be victimized because we can be victimized.

That's what makes us such an attractive target. Not the fact that we sell porn: lots of others sell porn and even sex itself, not just depictions of it. Not because we are big business: adult magazines reportedly turn over 3 times as much as we do and adult video has 8 times the sales. But other sectors of adult entertainment can do cash sales if necessary and they have bricks-and-mortar businesses that can only be hemmed in by such laws as exist. We can be put out of business by Visa or Mastercard, or by the major ISP's, or by Uncle Tom Cobbley, and not a single law needs to be written or changed to make it happen.

Can we do anything but hope that the political/social climate changes before any of these dire predictions are fulfilled? I doubt it. We are years away from being professional enough to organize ourselves, even if doing so would help. Just look at the way we "handled" 2257.

We wait until a month before the regulations are due to come into effect and then clutch at the nearest straw. I doubt more than a handful of all the people who contributed to FSC have a clue what exactly their agenda is, beyond the general principle of being opposed to 2257. Fewer still likely know what their "membership" means in practical terms. As for FSC, the only qualification for membership was a willingness to pay. With zero screening of applicants, for all anyone at FSC knows, CP sites might be among those who have used them to buy extra time...

And that was as organized as we could manage to get for challenging some very badly written law that we had 9+ months warning about. Does anyone seriously imagine we could do better if we had to take on Visa or the Commerce Department?

AlienQ,

you mention that this industry needs a group or one voice to protect this industry and you I guess feel the ICM registry is the way to go. No one will disagree with you on that point. The closest thing to that we have right now is not the ICM Registry, its the FSC, a non-profit organization. ICM only cares about the money in their pocket, they will love the idea of a mandatory .xxx extension, it will line their pockets. They're cutting deals with the gov't to collect money from webmasters, thats not an industry voice. The FSC on the other other hand.. is a lot more legitimate, even though people speak out against it like their is a profit motive. Choose your evils.. the ICM or the FSC, I'll take the FSC any day of the week and personally believe their work is legitimate in protecting our industry. The ICM has already stated they are profiteering which means they are not concerned with other people, just themselves and the money they make.

Adult income means nothing to Visa or Mastercard, what % do you think we make up of total transactions, .1%, .01%, .0001%? - I promise you, its probably maybe .1-.3%, I don't know, but the #s are out there and adult is a pimple on the ass as someone stated above.

Fear of change you say.. yes. I make money now, I like the money I make now. I have a question for you... do you not think a mandatory .xxx will put many people out of business, and if so, how will that affect your design and development business if there are a whole lot less design clients around?

The laws are designed to block children, which no one can argue is bad, but in the process, it will also block a lot of legitimate people who are searching for porn and active buyers. That is exactly what the FSC has stated, it is VERY logical thought process. To think people will "go out of their way" to buy porn and it won't amount in significant less business is speculation based on opinion, and most people realize that. In these situations, being ideal is not the best business choice, being pessimistic is, what if I bank on the idea that what you're saying is true that people will go out of their way, the law is passed, and then people aren't going out of their way, I guess I'll lose a lot of money and be out of business.

Ya people want me to draft an actual proposal that will get this industry together?

If thats what ya want...
I can do it.

The FSC is a non-profit organization. Money made from membership can be used for FSC activities... NOT to line the pockets of any individual. If the FSC makes a few thousand dollars then that's its budget. If it makes 1 hundred million dollars than it can accomplish more for the industry, possibly employ more people, but nobody gets rich. Of course the FSC wants people to become members and donate because that allows them to accomplish more. There are Board members on the FSC who have access to the financial data, know how much money the organization has, and where it is being spent. These Board members are voted on by FSC members. Everyone who is a member will have a chance to vote next election. There is oversight of where money is spent. There is INDUSTRY APPROVAL of how money is spent.

Regarding jayeff's comments about some people knowing little about the FSC, a good place to start is here:

http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/aboutus.htm

The next place to start is to pay attention to what the FSC does. How are they spending their resources? Read the "white paper" they developed. Read about the FSC lobbying days in Sacramento. Learn about the federal lobbyist it hired this year. Learn about the FSC's stance on dot-xxx. Find out about previous legal cases it was involved with. This information is available, although I'm sure jayeff is right that many webmasters haven't spent much time looking into this.

Alien, if you want an industry organization then you have one.

ICM Registry, on the other hand, is a private company. They can do whatever they like with the money that they make, just like you can do whatever you want with the money you make from your websites. They can line their pockets, invest it, buy new cars, whatever. At the end of the day if dot-xxx is mandatory, it benefits them financially. What's "good" for ICM is not necessarily what's "good" for the adult industry.

There is a world of difference.

FSC is clearly over stepping its bounds with a declaration of what this industry needs to regulate itself.

FSC should know its place, and it certainly is not in a position to take on Self Regulation nor fund it.

I will say again.

IF money generated from .XXX went to self regulation efforts and towards a lobby and various organizations like the FSC, ASACP this industry would be able to get ahold of itself.

Do the math here.

5000 Registrations is a clear $300,000.
Thats just 300,000 bucks and that can be achieved within a month. Yearly!

We all know more than 5000 registrations will occur I am sure the number of pre registration have excelled over 5000.

30% to administrative for .xxx and the remainder can be used to fuel efforts to self regulate, build a defense, even combat CP and the industries detractors such as the illness that resides within it to combat SPAM, and other nefarious shit that occurs.
As it stands legit companies have to combat abusive elements.
Some finances can be used to fight fraud and install better systems to the processors.

Alot of money can be raised and with .xxx done correctly this industry will get the armor it needs to continue at a productive pace vs the latter issue's of Legislation and self destruction.

No shit? I'm not a supporter of the .xxx domain extension either, but you can bet your ass i'll still be throwing some cash at it and trying my best to snag a couple of decent domains. It would be stupid not to.

.XXX is actually a useful tool and I for one welcome it

I think all the negative attention it seems to get here is mainly due to 'ifs' rather than what .XXX is. Yes the US government *COULD* sensor .xxx, yes Visa/MC *COULD* stop .xxx payments but they won't. I'll get more details at another point but some of the BS in this thread is out of control

Look forward to that Cain.

Education would really help out, instead of the "IF's" even my own "IF's".
However the industry should not make its decisions based on fear.
That goes against the entire adult philosophy.

Putting the facts in place will indeed help.
Putting up what can be changed or negotiable at this point would be very constructive as well.

No, this negative attention is precisely because of what .xxx is.

Here's the thing Cains... you can sit here and say that now if you want. You can claim that nothing bad will happen, and that dot-xxx will be all voluntary if you want. You can play the "it's all what if's and it will never happen" game NOW if you want. I've heard that game played by a lot of people who are financially invested in dot-xxx.

But if this thing goes live, it won't be long afterwards when things DO start to happen. There are a number of congressmen already on record supporting it being mandatory. There has ALREADY been pressure put on Yahoo and Google regarding filtering out adult content. A child advocacy group that is expected to get money from dot-xxx has ALREADY brought up the Visa angle. This is not the far-fetched "what if" scenario you're trying to make it out to be. And when this DOES happen, we have you ON RECORD here on GFY saying that .XXX would be great and that nothing bad will come of it. You should be careful what you assert.

This is business. And something any SMART business person should do is evaluate possible moves and consider the possible consequences of those moves. You are arguing that everyone should just close their eyes to the consequences because they haven't happened yet. That kind of logic is so horribly flawed it isn't even funny. Imagine if we all made our business decisions that way....

"Gee, I suppose it's POSSIBLE that I could get thrown in jail if I don't comply with 2257, but fuck it, that's just a "what if" scenario and it probably won't happen."

There are a number of congressmen already on record supporting it being mandatory.

Not black and white though. Records are saying that the networks should remain free or explicit content where children can EASILY access it.
Case an point TGP's...
Kiddies surf that shit day and night.


There has ALREADY been pressure put on Yahoo and Google regarding filtering out adult content.

Is that so bad? Search Engines have a very difficult time as it is with spammed and cloaked porn within golf ball search terms. Search Engines SHOULD place adult where it belongs, out of reach of children.


A child advocacy group that is expected to get money from dot-xxx has ALREADY brought up the Visa angle.

Nothing wrong with stopping children from accessing adult content. Technology is in place to do that already, and with .xxx make it easier.
Credit companies are issuing cards to kids that can transact adult! WTF?
Supposdly its the legal way to verify age!

Well Alien, your responses to my above points indicate that you aren't really understanding how this will affect the industry, or are unwilling to consider what I'm really saying... but if dot-xxx is indeed made a reality you'll get a chance to see for yourself what I'm talking about. Keeping children away from adult content is not the problem with dot-xxx. Which, btw, is something we could do with voluntary ratings. It's the keeping adults away from adult content issue that's the problem. If you want regulations and restrictions on your business fine... but frankly I don't think you should be making that decision for the entire industry.

What is it that your exactly saying then?

What I placed is a perfect rebuttle.
Vague? You used Vague terms about Law Makers Politicians just shoving the industry into .xxx. This is not the case at all. The case is that the politicians want to move Explicit content from the reach of children.

Is that so much to ask for from practical people?

I will go on to say that the 2257 LAW in some ways is practical as well, in some ways.
GO ahead and shove that down my throat and take it for what ya will.
Slowing down the readily available FREE explicit content to children is really what the new 2257 is about. It wont work for anyone. Not even the DOJ, Not even the everyday hard working Adult Webmaster.

There is another thing 2257 addresses as a portion.

Think we oughtah get our shit together?

Maybe?

A little?

Huh?

Now I would link to some of Danza's stuff where he has girls vomiting on his dick...

Literally puking on cock barf and all...

But his site went down just a little bit ago..

And you guys are scratching your heads wondering why
this industry has problems with the law...

I can find heavier stuff to...
It is not a problem.

FSC???

You support this?

Its an honest question.

I mean since you wanna be the industry leaders and all...
I think its a fair question to the FSC.

FSC why didnt you guys help MaxHardcore?

What about Rob Black FSC?
What about his freedom of speech?

Or is the FSC not ready to address the issues as to why Law Makers are against us?
Seriously address the issue with real self regulation?

Self Regulation can help this industry I think and funding it the proper way is necessary. Ya got any answers to funding a regulatory commitee for the industry?

If you do please let me know cuz my idea kicks your ass.

Ya guys go ahead and have a huddle about it.
I can not wait to hear your solutions.

Ok, for those who dont get it:

.XXX = BAD
:321GFY

Do you, as an advocate for protecting children, really think it was a good idea to post explicit pictures like that on GFY? Do you think THAT might be contributing to the industry's image problem? :1orglaugh

Frankly I think at the end of the day that it isn't up to YOU to tell other people how to run their business. If a person breaks a clear law, well, then they have to answer for that. But it sounds to me like you're eager to play the game of "content police." Am I far off?

.kids
 

i'm down with the .kids thing

fuck'em

throw the kids into a corner.. not us

Um... and it's the 21st Century. Just for the record.

Thanks for the link!!

Agreed! :thumbsup

It's amazing when parents use Google and Yahoo for their kids' research when there are kid-friendly services already on the internet. Parents are too lazy to watch out for their kids, so then it becomes our job? Fuck that.

so who is behind this .xxx and going to profit from it?

The way Q talks I doubt all his money comes from adult. Unless you have a adult website you cant really understand it . You know a good bulk of traffic comes from colleges and people at work, you know we will never have a powerful lobby in Washington.You also know Visa said already they do not want to be a form of age verification for adult. If they shut off adult on line in the usa, there wont be a outcry ,people will go back to dvd's. They still make alot more money than we do.To think that oh they cant stop the adult net your kidding yourself. Also intelligent people in business think about the possible scenerios of something before it happens because once it happens its too late. And Q I will ask you again are you being paid to promote .xxx? I also hope at internext people really speak up and dont sit there like ball less wonders, like they did for Acacia

Lets take a step back here and look at this thing for what it really is.

We all know it isn't about protecting the children, we all know it isn't about bringing the industry together and we all know it isn't about making ourselves look responsible to an ideology that thinks we shouldn't be allowed to exist.

What it IS....Is a money grab by ICMR, to grab my money and your money and they are willing to do it at the expense of throwing us under the bus, and if they succeed the bus is gonna run over us...no doubt about it, .XXX hasn't even been approved and already there is bi-partisan support for forcing us to use it.

I don't think Alienq is a dumbass or whatever, but I think he has backed himself into a corner and can't come out and say hey, I was wrong on this one.

Conner you know you have my support in anyway I can give it to kill this abomination.

As a Libertarian I tend to agree with the idea that we not do business with anyone who supports this, it WILL harm us, all of us, and we will have to pay for the priviledge of being harmed and all the while ICMR, who has NO background in this industry gets rich off of us....FUCK THEM. FUCK JASON HENDALES and FUCK ANYONE who would voluntarily try to submit me into this bondage.