xenigo

So I thought I'd have a reasonable, logical conversation with a bar owner on Van Ness Ave in San Francisco tonight. I saw a very prominently posted sign stating "Credit Cards $15 Minimum" behind the counter. Well, as a customer, I don't like minimums. I don't like being told I need to buy 3 drinks in order to pay with the only thing I usually carry in my wallet.

I also have studied the VISA Merchant Agreement to quite an extent and know that on LINE ONE it states that merchants cannot charge minimums or maximums.

So I politely asked the bar owner about his policy. Then I asked him if he was aware that VISA strictly prohibits merchants from charging miniums. He said he wasn't aware, but that this wasn't a matter of their policy - he said that since this was HIS store, it was HIS policy, and VISA has nothing to do with it. Arrogance at it's finest I suppose.

Well he proceeded to ask me why I cared. I told him that I feel he's taking advantage of consumers. He told me that "consumers need to be taken advantage of" and since it was his shop, he had the right to charge whatever minimums he wanted. He threw in that the fees were such that he was paying 'a fortune' for what he was processing. I told him that's the price of doing business. I'm sure .25 and 2.39% per transaction ads up when you're billing tons of people, but that's the cost of doing business! This is not the point at which people get to invent their own transaction policies and try to jerk people around just because their ego is apparently too big.

Anyway, he was probably the most immature and illogical business owner I've ever met. 'Stupid' would probably be the best word to describe this guy. The fact of 'VISA merchant agreement violation' and 'you can lose your merchant account' just didn't seem to compute in his head.

Anyway, I'm going to be on the phone with Merchant Services tomorrow to inform them of yet another loser charging a minimum, and thinking it's their right to do so.

My gut feeling is that people like this ultimately hurt honest businesses that process legitimately with VISA. Do you think I'm out of place?

newbreed

I can see where you are coming from, but I have never been in a bar and not spent less than 15 bucks, so I dunno if I ever would have noticed any kind of minimum's policies.

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Loryn ‎(3:16 PM):
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fuck it we can have sex on money never did that before

woj

I don't really think the guy is trying to rip off customers. I've had similar situation in the past, I had a quick chat with the manager and he told me that they pay $5 per transaction + 5% (or something along those lines) so that's why they can't really bill credit cards for anything less than $10.

The $5/transactions sounded a little high, but who knows, maybe they are doing cc transactions through some middle-man that is fucking them over.

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The Truth Hurts

many convenience stores (I don't do bars) around here have that policy (usually $10 minimum) on account of the fees they have to pay.

BRISK

That guy must have been pulling numbers out of his ass. $5 per transaction + 5%? That sounds rediculous. I've never seen anything like that.

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chadglni

You are out of line, let the man run his business how he chooses.

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WarChild

No doubt. Don't like it? Go to another bar, nobody's forcing you there. Nobody needs you playing VISA police.

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xenigo

Go to another bar? I was there to see a show. A local band was performing, and I had been invited to attend. What am I going to tell them, that they should play another venue because this particular establishment charges minimums? ha ha

It's not so simple. These types of merchants are fucking over consumer's willingness to patronize these types of local establishments. They are preying on consumer's assuming that merchants are doing the right thing.

Bottom line is he's taking advantage of people and nobody questions it. Except for me.

Playing VISA police? Fuck you, dipshit.

pr0

VISA is becoming the face of the new american dollar....they muscle businesses into using them over AMEX etc.

Their both evil ugly companies with pillage & loot on their minds. And you just fucked up some poor bar keep who works 16 hours a day with a startup...& has to deal with you "enlightened" assholes all day

And another thing

"Gay Ebony Webmasters Needed. If you can send 50+ joins per month, I'll give you 60%"

You're keeping 30 points assuming your proccessing is at 8-9% with those huge amounts of joins. And don't tell me about bandwidth & chargebacks...everyones under 1% now & bandwidth costs nuts. Content? Cost of doing business

Quit ripping off your webmasters & offering 60% like its a privledge

Making parrallels is just too easy here, i think i'll go sleep now.

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pr0

Why am i even ripping a new asshole in someone that would get into a discussion with a barkeep about their policy.

You're eithe really poor & an asshole, or really rich & an asshole....i've seen both types.

Me, i woulda bought the guy a xanax & a glass of wine, explained to him his business was in jeopardy. Not acted like a customer to get information about what he thought, then tattled to visa.

Holy fuck you suck

pr0

You ghetto thug loving ass pounding hypocrite douchebag fuck

xenigo

Yes, 30 points is about right. What about the bar owner? Try 90+. $6.00 drink - $.25 - 2.39% = you get my point. You're right about VISA being the new american dollar, and what he's doing is FUCKING with the economy of that dollar.

Just because he has some overhead doesn't mean he gets to write his own rules. We all have costs of doing business. Just because someone's are higher or lower in relation to someone else's doesn't give them a justification to screw their customers over.

Anyway, I thought there were more intellligent people on GFY... someone prove it to me please.

xenigo

jackass. Look at the big picture.

pr0

bah, my knees swollen from a car wreck, i havn't slept in 20 hours

oh yea...& my pain medication is wearing off

if none of it made sense i apologize, but 3 mins ago my brain was telling me i had some valid points

xenigo

Alright man, I hope you feel better soon.

Niko

One day VISA decides that you can't have minimums. Not a big deal for most people (except for the bar owners maybe).
Next day VISA decides that you can't sell forced sex or beastiality. Not a big deal either, it's illegal in most places anyway.
Next day VISA follows AmEx route and decides that you can't sell porn online. It isn't a big deal for the bar owner, but it probably is for you.

TeddyRacer1

I see this all the time, when you see a small-time store merchants, they're not suppose to charge fees for using your credit card/visa/mc and they do! what are you going to do about it, spend 20-30 mins on hold for a csr to explain to you that she has her head in her ass. I say just move on, unless it's the only bar in Frisco and you can't stand him breaking the merchant account rules.

xenigo

Honestly I could have let it fly if the guy would have just listened to me and had some empathy to what I was telling him. But the guy had to have a super pissing match with me and tell me that it's 'his rules, and his store, and his policy, and VISA isn't going to tell me what to do, etc.'

I gave him a million reasons why charging miniums is bad for business but he absolutely would not listen to what I was telling him. He was belittling me, said 'are you drunk?'. Basically felt like I was talking to a bully in highschool. LOL

So you're right, it may not be worth it for me. But I'm honestly god damn tired of seeing ignorant merchants trying to pull shit like this over on their customers. I'm an honest retailer and I know without a doubt that these shady assholes have an affect on our business.

When consumers have a bad experience with a retailer who takes VISA, and fucks with their policy when it comes to taking credit cards, it makes them less likely to use their VISA with other merchants in the future.

TeddyRacer1

Give Visa a holla tomorrow and come back to this thread and post the results. I understand, I just had a pretty shitty experience with a company and if they only offered me a discount/gift certificate for my next purchase I would of let it go but no deal, so I won't be buying from them next time.

Oracle Porn

i hate cheap fucks like you who are doing it not because they are cheap, but because of the principle.

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Oracle Porn

are you also going to snitch on webmasters who don't fully comply with the 2257 because of their "Arrogance at it's finest"?

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Cassie

you could have just stuck with soda if it bothered you that much.

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Fred Quimby

When ever I go to the arab owned gas station,,,i just fill up the tank with 2 cents worth of gas.

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Cains

Simple solution, go to an ATM and get out cash

I hate people using credit cards in bars, almost as annoying as people still using cheques for small purchases

Fred Quimby

oh yea,,,how much of a tip did you leave????

ha ha

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infecto

How is he taking advantage of anything? Yeah it might suck in certain situations but shit I understand from their point of view not wanting to take a CC on something that maybe cost $4. The processing charge will really cut into their profit especially if its Amex.

Fred Quimby

The IRS accepts cc for payments

but they make you pay the fees

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jayeff

Pretentious bloody nonsense to go into a regular bar without cash in the first place. So I guess it's not surprizing your visit turned out as it did. Hopefully you will grow up eventually...

mardigras

Screwing customers over would be if they slipped the charges in without notice and you didn't find out until you got your visa statement.

I have a favorite convenience store close by. First time I went in after they started charging a minumum they told me at the register when I tried to make a purchase under that amount. Now when I know what I want is going to be less than that they lose my business to the store across the street.

If the bar has the minimum posted or tells customers before charging the mininum when their purchase doesn't meet it, I agree with others that said either find another bar or since you had an engagment there either don't drink or take some cash with you. If it was a big event you probably would have spent well well more than $15, I bet anything if you had nicely asked they would have run a tab for you all night before turning in the total in to Visa.

Not saying it's nice or even within the rules for them to charge exhorbant fees, but you do have options.

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SmokeyTheBear

He did listen to you , i think he was quite reasonable. I know alot of bar owners, 99% of them wouldn't have even let you finish your spiel and would have had bouncers turf your ass.

But don't get me wrong i totally understand your point. Wih some bars its the processing they use.. 3 - $5 orders on the same credit card makes them less money than 1 - $15 order, its as simple as that.. Basic math. The pissed off customer is a ratio in that math equation , but it obviously doesn't affect the outcome..

I mean seriously what did you expect him to say ? "your right that sucks ass , we will remove the min. charge "

I think what he did was give it to you straight instead of sugar coating it like anyone else would have.

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TheGoldenChild

Unfortunately he may be right
he may be covered under the "cover charge" laws-

He'll make it appear that is his intention -
It's almost like enforcing a dress code-

I may be wrong, but I ran some shady clubs- none of them ever had minimums- they just had ATM's on property that would gouge you for $5.00- $8.00
a transaction-

and legally , you can do it-

Can u imagine someone paying 8 points per each hundred dollars of your OWN MONEY you take out at a strip club?


I know plenty of people who do and have done this...

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NTSS

You make a very good point......For the bar owner that is...

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wjxxx

People like you make me sick.

Sly

You're going to call Visa and report this guy? Ahaha. You need to find something better to do with your time.

If I were him I would charge a minimum as well and find a way around Visa's rule (which they probably don't even enforce). Taking the processing hit on a $4 drink? He probably LOSES money on that deal.

Who uses a CC in a bar anyway? I bet you don't tip either.

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jimmyf

rules are rules, Visa I'm has them there reason, not letting him have a Min. For what reason I have NO ideal.

True the asswipe in. Fuck him.

After you trun him in, post back here so we know what Visa said.

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baddog

We have this thing here in the states called, "running a tab."

It is a very simple concept, you give the bartender your credit card, and at the end of the night they tally up your bill, and you pay one time, and get your card back.

12clicks

Here's the big picture, you're some two bit asshole who should have been run out of the bar.
My god, if this face came into my bar, it wouldn't have to speak before I chased it back into the street.

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12clicks

oh yeah, a guy going to a bar because he was invited by the band worrying about spending 15 bucks?

he's got "big tip" written all over him

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Drake

They don't make enough money doing small transactions like that if you're paying by card.

taibo

good arguement but then again why not just buy 3 drinks while ya there

aleck

$15 in bar and he's getting worried? omg

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broke

I can see you've never managed a bar.

I do daily and normally tip at least 50%.

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Perfect Gonzo

Steen2

The IRS is one of the only organizations in the country that are allowed to charge a fee.

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Drake

It's not just the transaction fee that the bar has to pay. They have to pay to lease the credit card software (that piece of equipment that you slide the card through).

It's just not worth the time, effort, and loss of extra cash to allow charges without a minimum for many small bars. They probably also noticed that people use it as an excuse not to tip.

killshot

I only bring cash to the bar... if i bring a credit card i tend to throw it down and start letting all my friends put their drinks on my tab.. which pisses me off once i sober up

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Barefootsies

They have the same thing here (minimum) for one of the clubs I go to.

No big whoop. I give them the card, pay for my shit, and they give me back cash difference between minimum, and what I've purchased.

End of dicussion.

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reynold

Regulated satisfaction..lol

SmokeyTheBear

I'll tell you a trick bartenders use to get rid of people who bug them. They squirt VISINE ( the eye stuff ) in your drink.. It makes you have the shits...

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woj

$50 minimum charge...

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TeddyRacer1

You probably look like that and I'll KICK YOU OUT!