Just to clarify, I'm not trying to flame the folks from extremepaychecks or their program, but rather, discuss this issue and hopefully get a better understanding myself.

I know that we have the 15-20 images but I dont want 10,000 affiliates using the same 15-20 images to promote our site. Same thing as if we only use hosted galleries the gallery makers are going to get squeezed out. I have a responsibility to my affiliates as well. I feel sorry for mr. podunk but that is why we have all our docs backed up on three different computers, two externals, and a copy at our host. Your right though we have an option; only allow 1500 images out of 40,000 images for our affiliates to use. Im not knocking you, you know this whole thing is quite the dilema. :(

My very small list of clients includes people like ATK and Karups who have the same view of this as I do.

Ya know what?? This industry is full of smart people..

I assure you that 2257 isnt about to slow us one bit..

Its going to make us more organized, tighter, and stronger... The cream is gunna float, and the shit will sink..

Its about time we were all faced with a challenge to make us all think again..

John is a thinker, he always has been.. DonovanPhillips is also a thinker and he will be fine. For the first time in a long time we are all getting serious and thinking thinking thinking.. We have different opinions but we all have the wheel spinning here.

The end result I think is going to be a an even stronger more organized and efficient industry.

2257 is not the end.

Not a Fake Nick at all. Just been around a long time. I watched us work throuigh 2257 the first time. ( actually thats a lie, most ignored it the first time)
I was a long time reader until recently. I try to post smart and honest. Both are not appreciated in many cases so I remain sig free and objective. I understand this is a world of shit ESPECIALLY for hardcore sites.....but I'll STFU I promised to.

And your response shows how little you trully know about the company your taking shots at.

Since your too god damn worried about changing an entire industry "Mr. Protect your models" (Ill get to that in a minute).

We have hosted galleries have for years, make that over 8k of them to be exact. Free hosting, yup Donny Boy weve been doing that shit for years too.

Now before you continue on your pre-school rant about "Trashy Scum" in the industry do you at least remove your fucking preachers gown before you shoot pics of naked chicks and whatever the fuck else you do?? If you want to be a preacher and you want to change an industry or a group of people become a fucking Boy Scout leader and leave business decisions to people that have the balls to make them either which way.

And I would suggest finding something better to do because I can assure you at the end of this 2257 road, Extreme wont be the only company that makes this decision in the same fashion Steve made his decision, Steve made a Business decision that he felt was right for him regardless of what you or anyone else thought, it was his "ADULT" choice as a Business owner, in the same fashion my Decion and Ftv's decision are our choices, if you cant respect business for business than go find somewhere else to do whatever it is that you do.

Now ive wasted enough of my time playing your little game of "Thats not right", "It's not fair", and "He stole my cookie" so Ill continue to answer questions from Adults in this business willing to make Business decisions, you can go play now Tommy.

Let's say Boneprone was an Extreme affiliate. Extreme could buy the domain ExtremeBoneproneGalleries.com (or something similar), host it, and let BoneProne put all his galleries promoting extreme sites on it.

Problem solved. Boneprone doesn't need the IDs. The model is still protected. Extreme still has Boneprone promoting them (maybe moreso since he doesn't have to worry about hosting)

First off who the hell are you to call anyone "trashy scum" because they don't do things they way you want them done? That comment just showed everyone who the real "trashy scum" is.

Second, you don't own an affiliate program so how the hell do you know whats right for Extreme Paychecks or any other affiliate program? YOU DON'T

No one ever said that everyone has to agree with the decisions we made. But we do owe it to out affiliates to inform them of what steps we are going to take and thats why this thread was made. Not too here your opinion over and over again and then be called names because we don't want to do things the way you want them done. You don't pay our affiliates, you don't pay the employees of Extreme Paychecks, you don't pay our models, so you can take your opinion and stick it where the sun don't shine. John tried to talk to you like an adult and you responded like a kid. You really made an ass of yourself now and chances are its going to catch up to you.

not nice 2 call people name's just because, they don't agree to do business the way YOU want them 2. Not nice at all

For some reason that line made me all warm inside..

Il be back in 10 minutes!!

And you know what, I have respect for them and the decision they have made, why??? Because it's THEIR business. Not once did you hear me say, "Oh no wait Donavan you have to change your rules and your thinking on this matter" I personally dont give two flying fucks what YOUR opinion is on this matter or my decision, I made it and I will either live or die by it regardless of what you think and Im a big boy and more than willing to accept whatever cards come my way.

Nobody likes this new shit. Professionals learn how to work with it PROFESSIONALLY. Maybe your conscience can allow you to deal with being responsible for the death or rape of a model. I dunno. But it's SO FUCKING EASY for you to prevent this shit.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...3&postcount=69

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=107

And guess what? With both of those solutions YOUR AFFILIATES DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT STORING 2257 DOCS. They'll actually appreciate it.

I'm sorry. I promised to shut up. But Boneprone brought up a great option. use all your images. Just make sure to include a softcore or two for the TGP's to use when they link to your galleries. 40,000 images makes a ton of hosted galleries. A TON. each with a softcore pic or two and your problem is solved.

And guess what our affiliates know that we offer hosting BECAUSE WE HAVE FOR A LONG TIME. Again in business people make decisions based on what they feel best, maybe Boneprone doesnt give 2 shits about paying for bandwidth, maybe Boneprone doesnt mind handeling a Model ID, maybe Boneprone doesnt want to use someone else's hosting. Get it through your head that not everyone in this industry believes in the same things or wants to do things the Donovan way.

You really don't have a clue.

Best part is you keep saying POST #69 or READ POST #69 and the best part is I addressed that 10x already. Move on young one.

In that case: me neither.

Explain to me why that wouldnt work?

As a matter of fact I do have an affiliate program and have for several years. Do a little more reading. Every post I've made has DonnysMoney.com right over there on the left.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=114

Free hosted galleries aren't the be all end all solution guys.

You're totally fixated on model privacy and while I appreciate that there are many other issues in play here.
If you want to get pissed off at someone for violating your model's privacy then get pissed off at the DOJ....not the people who have to comply with the law or do 5 years in prison.

Having nothing but hosted content in the future may be a workable solution moving forward....but it does nothing to address the content that has been given out to affiliates in the past.

Telling the affiliates they can no longer use that content, have to take down or replace that content, is setting yourself up for a lawsuit from an affiliate.
They will have a good case against you for doing business in bad faith, business disruption, any number of things they could bring legal action against you for.

Photographers want to look out for their models, program owners want to look out for their affiliates, and EVERYONE wants to look out for themselves and stay out of jail.

Some of you folks need to get off your damn soap boxes.

:2 cents:

Thank fucking god.

Nope, they may not want to do it that way. But now the laws have changed. They didn't want to have to worry about model IDs before either, which is probably part of the reason they're not sponsors. But these new regs change everything and they have to get used to a new way of doing business.

And people who put the lives of models in danger when a viable alternate is available are definitely scum of the earth.

You know I have never heard ATK or Karups call their fellow affiliate program owners scum. So now we have to decide who exactly you are calling trashy scum, how many of you guys are trashy scum? please raise your hands. We are saying this 2257 situation is fucked up, we are not slandering EVERY fellow webmaster be it program owner, gallery maker, or content producer.

Well since you film models for the interent than your in that Scum pool my friend and may very well be at the top of the food chain.

That would be hard. Have you seen my site?

My script rips and pulls images off FHG's and then puts the thumbs up on my site to promote that gallerey.. The problem is the thumb is on my servers..

I wish it werent..

I think something needs to be done in terms of the the popular tgp scrip programing and coding for somthing like this to happen.

not just this, but i'm still worried about retroactive punishment. even if a TGP owner has taken down all thumbs, can they still come to your door and ask for records for the thumbs you had posted previously?

do these regulations basically say, 'look, the DOJ is now saying that secondary producers should have been compliant the entire time.' taking everything down now wouldn't protect you at all in that case. if you published them in the past, you are still responsible. if sponsors now do not give you the docs, you're completely sitting ducks.

How many domains would you care to guess that would be?

Who is going to track everything happening on those domains, who is going to make sure the domains are re-newed, how many more servers will that take, what if an affiliate uploads content they didn't get from us on that domain, how many more full time employees will this take, who is going to pay their salaries?

I can keep going, but I'm sure you see my point. It's not all cut and dry.

Thats the differance between someone with class and someone with no class. Karup is 100% class and wouldnt stoop to that level because someone didnt do shit their way.

Those who give out model info needlessly when it's so easy to prevent doing so are fucking scum. Sorry.

I agree. No harm done, images can be cropped to a softer image as well.

Yes that is exactly what the DOJ is saying, and they actually did say in the comments of the Law when a "Commentor" stated "The ammount of time given to prepare for the new law is not enough time", the comment back from the DOJ was "This has been the law since July of 1995 which means everyone should have already been doing this".

You call this mess "Donny's Ramblings" an affiliate program :1orglaugh

This discussion we are having here would be a great panel discussion at one of the shows.. We seem to have 3 perspectives here..

We are discussing a lot more dialoge than the usual bullshit they discuss at those things, usually with some attorney sales dude scaring everyone to buying his services with one dimentional perspective on this.

I havent engaged in a discussion on GFY like this in a long time.

Its nice.

Ya think of how many sites are going to close because they wont be able to track down the model ids.

Very few will REQUIRE their own domain. Most will take their own subfolder.

As for "content they didn't get from us": you can easily create a program to make it so that you have to approve a gallery before it goes live. I'm sure places like theHun, etc can give you a heads up on this if you really don't know how to do it.


None of us like this shit. But that doesn't relieve you from being professional in how you adapt to it. Jeopardizing the very people making you money (models) is NOT the way to stay professional.

Yeah so easy to prevent, so easy to tell thousands and thousands of affiliates, "Sorry take everything down" we have another idea we expect you to jump and do right now. Is so easy.

Donavan do the world a favor shut up and shoot, or open an affiliate program about 6 years ago and deal with todays issues today in that "SOOO EASY: fashion. Your talking about something you have no clue about.

Do you know what "on the left" means? Fucking moron. Here, let me spell it out for you:

www.DonnysMoney.com

Based on that:

Like its your responsibility to adapt to the law under these circumstances maybe 'Boneprone' needs to adapt too.

This policy displays you guys have extreme confidence in your affiliates and their integrity.

Considering lifes are at stake i dont think 'Boneprone' will tell you to go fuck yourself when you offer him those facilities.

I agree, Chris and lenny2 and ladwagon, I appreciate the very intelligent and civil discussion.

Oh so now not only tell affiliates "Sorry" about years worht of galleries they have out there, than tell them they HAVE to host on our servers, THAN tell them sorry you have to wait till your gallery is approved. Your honestly killing me.

The real question here though Is 3 pieces really enough??

Im more of a six piece kinda guy..

Poppyes tomorrow?

so. to state this in complete english.

any u.s.-based affiliate of a program who is not giving out documentation who has ever posted a thumbnail or any other promo pic on a TGP, a gallery or a blog or whatever at any time is a felon and should be expecting a visit from the feds.

Those are exactly the reasons why owning and hosting domains for affiliates isn't an option for us either....I thought about it for all of 15 minutes and when all those issues came up I dropped the idea.

I still host some affiliates for free, but it's their domain that they control so they're responsible for it. As far as that part of our business relationship is concerned I'm a "web host" who doesn't have "editorial control" over the site.

ChrisExtreme

You call this mess "Donny's Ramblings" an affiliate program


didn't you read ChrisExtreme's post ??????

It's above

I've had an affiliate program for several years now. Read, man READ.

This solution is JUST AS EASY as issueing model IDs to your affiliates.

GUESS WHAT?!? They're EXPECTING changes due to 2257. Imagine THAT!

And guess what else? If they don't change it's THEIR ASS, not yours! Provide them a way to change that respects your models. If they choose not to do so it's their problem.

I agree I think in time everyone will have to adapt to be honest, however at this stage of the game on June 6th making forcefull decisions for thousands of affiliates that could very well put their income into a very bad position doesnt seem all that realistic of a choice either.

My guess would be that if you were to ask anyone here, if nothing could change and everything be exactly as it was on May 22nd everyone would be more than happy to take that path. Sadly thats not the case.

Don't use words like professional when you can't act like one.

Once again you don't like are choices move on and make your own its that easy.

Here's a guy that shoots "Models" for a living andf is preaching to the damn quior about respecting them. Hey maybe I think shooting nude woman or woman doing hardcore is disrespectful to the Model, should I jump in every Producers thread and throw my shit around in there. Make a new thread there junior go play in that one.

Thanks, I will start removing all your galleries and links now. I will not do business with ANYONE that puts their models at risk and gives there information to strangers. Unreal.

Thanks for letting it be known that you dont give a fuck about the safety of your models.


Boycott anyone who sends ids. Its bullshit.

Show us a copy of your release on each model where it gives you full rights to pass on all there personal info. If you buy your content then I know you are full of shit.