2257 & the BIG guys it "may effect". - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

V_RocKs · 05-20-2005, 04:08 PM

iBanker · 05-20-2005, 04:14 PM

I really think I could pull off a digital solution. Gonna bat it around in my head over the weekend.

V_RocKs · 05-20-2005, 04:56 PM

Well, the 2257 data just has to be available right? So lets say two detectives come to my house and ask me for that data... Then I contact you and say, Yo! I need that data... Then you create me an account so I can go online and print that data to my printer. Then I give that data to the detectives and they can lick my sweaty balls...

Who am I kidding.. I use air conditioning, my balls are cold as ice.

V_RocKs · 05-20-2005, 04:58 PM

Then again, you would still run into the whole thing about stalkers... I could pretend the detectives came looking for the info... I would imagine they would also have some kinda important papers with the papers they are looking for stated on them... Then I could fax that to you... but then you would still not know if I am just a stalker...

After Shock Media · 05-20-2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

So lets say two detectives come to my house and ask me for that data... Then I contact you and say, Yo! I need that data...

And their phone picks up and says pleave leave your message at the beep and someone will get back to you as soon as possible. Then eventually call back but by that time they get your machine because you happen to be in jail waiting for them.

latinasojourn · 05-20-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iBanker

Okay, now continuing from before, lets use A TGP like Mark?s Bookmarks (because it?s a great TGP and Mike is a good guy).

Affiliate Joe comes to us and say ?Hey, I like your new Brazil site and I want to push it?. Our response would be, ?Hey that is great, glad to have you aboard. Just a few questions before we get you approved.

1. How long have you been in this business?
2. What references do you have?
3. Would you like free hosting?
4. What type of promoting do you do?
5. You understand we don?t allow mail, correct?
6. How much traffic do you see yourself sending?

Essentially we start doing a background check on them. Why? Because if his answer to number 3 above is NO for what ever reason, then I essentially have to send him copies of all the 2257 info for the site he is pushing. God forbid he wants to promote 10 sites of ours without free hosting, then I am sending him literally over 7,000 pages of information. And that is one affiliate. So 1,000 affiliates in a program (we have more than that, but keeping the numbers simple, imagine what nasty dollars has?lol) at that point costs me 7,000,000 pieces of paper. That paper needs to be printed on, and someone needs to be paid to do it. I?m not even going to guess what that costs, but essentially, we are no longer a porn company, WE ARE A PUBLISHING company.

No way can a program send this to every affiliate, sure if you are throwing 10 joins a day to us, I?ll pop for all of it (postage on that would be a bitch and I doubt webmasters would want scanned copies that THEY have to print out.

What happens if this webmaster is Joe webmaster THE STALKER?. Thus a reason why background checks help. He starts harassing a model cause he has their information, driving by her house, ?..I don?t want to further than that, cause it pisses me off, but we all know there are sick sick fucks out there that don?t care and would do some very bad things that could essentially bring down this entire industry if models started getting stalked. Nobody would want to model anymore, and something tell me our 80s porn wouldn?t retain to well.

Back to the TGPs, Joe webmaster want to submit to Mark?s Bookmarks with the content for our sites. Now Luckily, mark?s happen to be mainly text links with only 4 banners at the top, and I don?t even want to get into what banners will do with 2257 proposed, but lets pretend they are not there. Who here thinks Mark would have to have a copy of the 2257?

Back to work?.be back again to talk about whats going to happen to the webmasters??give me 15 minutes?

this thread should be copied to the FSC as a court exhibit.

fireorange · 05-20-2005, 05:20 PM

Why couldn't the sponsors give affiliates the 2257 documents in digital format but encrypted and when the government asks the affiliate for the docs, the affiliate calls the sponsor's special hotline and request it and they give the affiliate the key to de-crypt the data into readable text?

After Shock Media · 05-20-2005, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireorange

Why couldn't the sponsors give affiliates the 2257 documents in digital format but encrypted and when the government asks the affiliate for the docs, the affiliate calls the sponsor's special hotline and request it and they give the affiliate the key to de-crypt the data into readable text?

Again do you trust your sponsor enough to keep you out of jail?

fireorange · 05-20-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of the fungi

Again do you trust your sponsor enough to keep you out of jail?

Good point

RogerV · 05-20-2005, 05:35 PM

Most of the US based Programs I know have been prepared for these new Regs for a year now so it?s no surprise we will evolve and comply if you don?t want to get in trouble with the law. It?s a pain in the ass but it not impossible to comply.

They have put so much money into the war on drugs has it even effected it. Not that I can tell, I still see kids buying whatever illegal drug they want and drugs are illegal Pornography isn't at least not since the last time I checked.

Follow the rules the government just wants to organize and clean it up. Which I think we should have done in a long time. This way the conversions will get better and so will the retention when people can't view obscene content for free.

I?m not going to go into anymore detail just study and follow the new rules very simple
We will evolve and prosper

Snake Doctor · 05-20-2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDSmith

You're right, it wasn't legal advice. I was going by what their main mission statement read as, which from what I understand of plain English means they want access to the information they want access to. I plan to comply and provide that access.

Lenny just loves to cock off at me whenever he gets the opportunity for some odd reason. I must smell good today.

Don't flatter yourself, I give you shit when you post moronic things, such as your earlier post. If you keep acting like a moron, I'm obliged to keep calling you one.

Also, I never said you were providing legal advice, what I said was if that's your plan be glad you're in Canada, because people in the U.S. who think that if the law says A, but all they really want is B, so I'll do B, will end up filming gay reality sites in prison.

It's like saying "The speed limit is 65, but they really just want people to drive safely and not have an accident, so I'll drive 80 but be extra careful"

PhotoGreggXXX · 05-20-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireorange

Why couldn't the sponsors give affiliates the 2257 documents in digital format but encrypted and when the government asks the affiliate for the docs, the affiliate calls the sponsor's special hotline and request it and they give the affiliate the key to de-crypt the data into readable text?

I really like the encrypting idea. We've considered a database online with our set numbers for easy 2257 compliance, vs. sending every guy that buys a $10 photo set the complete private info on our talent. The problem is the same, now ANY tom, dick or harry will eventually get access to that database.

I know video can be encrypted with drm...any programs that do this with .jpg's?

My 2 cents. This whole law will blow over. The government hasn't set a budget for prosecution...they don't have any special agency in place to go after anyone. Think of the billions of dollars spent with tons of govt. agencies formed 20 years for the "WAR ON DRUGS'. I don't know about you, but there's more drugs of every type available on any corner now, then there was before the govt's billion dollar a year war.

RawAlex · 05-20-2005, 07:17 PM

Sponsor content (not throw away stuff but actual "from the site" stuff) is the best way to sell the product, increases the conversions, and lowers the chance of a chargeback because the content shown in the sale (free site) is the same as what is on the site.

Under what was originally proposed, it would be required to hand full 2257 documents to every affiliate wanting to use the content. That is overwhelming amounts of paper out there (imaging a program with 1000 affiliates used 30 images each per day... )that would be 60,000 pieces of paper having to be mailed each day... and the end of 1 year that is 22 million pieces of new paperwork not currently required by law. Multiple that over the hundreds of bigger program out there with content, multiply by the number of sites each one has, and you are looking at more than a billion new pieces of paper - and not a single bit of it will stop child porn.

The scale of the government's idea is a little overwhelming.

Alex

orcastudios · 05-20-2005, 07:44 PM

Some of you are missing the fine-points of the new proposed regulations. You must have your 2257 documents ready to show the inspectors when they arrive at your front door. The documents MUST be in alphabetical order. You must also have your documents CROSS-INDEXED by the stage names used by the performers AND by the locations of where these performers can be found (video name, URL, etc.) If one document is out of order (eg: not alphabetized) then that is a violation. The inspectors may visit you up to three times a year.

The obvious purpose of making this so difficult is to drive the porn industry out of business.

(And to the poster above who said that there is no funding or organization to do this - the Justice Department has set-up a new Obscenity Division to handle this.)

CDSmith · 05-20-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Don't flatter yourself, I give you shit when you post moronic things, such as your earlier post. If you keep acting like a moron, I'm obliged to keep calling you one.

Also, I never said you were providing legal advice, what I said was if that's your plan be glad you're in Canada, because people in the U.S. who think that if the law says A, but all they really want is B, so I'll do B, will end up filming gay reality sites in prison.

It's like saying "The speed limit is 65, but they really just want people to drive safely and not have an accident, so I'll drive 80 but be extra careful"

Christ lenny, take a midol already.

Isn't it your wifey's birthday? Shouldn't you two be out sharing a happy meal or something?

After Shock Media · 05-20-2005, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhotoGreggXXX

My 2 cents. This whole law will blow over. The government hasn't set a budget for prosecution...they don't have any special agency in place to go after anyone. Think of the billions of dollars spent with tons of govt. agencies formed 20 years for the "WAR ON DRUGS'. I don't know about you, but there's more drugs of every type available on any corner now, then there was before the govt's billion dollar a year war.

They have set up a budget, they do have a special agency in place. Hell they even hold special meetings, go look it up or sell a few 10.00 sets and get an hour with an attorney.

Do not compare this to the war on drugs, anyone who does any research will quickly understand the government and a wide assortment of agencies get way to much money with it ongoing.

Snake Doctor · 05-20-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhotoGreggXXX

Think of the billions of dollars spent with tons of govt. agencies formed 20 years for the "WAR ON DRUGS'. I don't know about you, but there's more drugs of every type available on any corner now, then there was before the govt's billion dollar a year war.

Yes but how many people are in prison serving 10 year minimum sentences for drug offenses.

Answer: Most of them.

Most of the people in prison today are there on drug charges. Sure you can still get drugs on any street corner, but do you want to risk prison time for the cash you'll make selling them?

Nate-MM2 · 05-20-2005, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Under what was originally proposed, it would be required to hand full 2257 documents to every affiliate wanting to use the content. That is overwhelming amounts of paper out there (imaging a program with 1000 affiliates used 30 images each per day... )that would be 60,000 pieces of paper having to be mailed each day... and the end of 1 year that is 22 million pieces of new paperwork not currently required by law.

The sponsor only has to mail the documents once per each model.

It's up to the affiliate to track which URL's the images are published to.

CDSmith · 05-20-2005, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orcastudios

Some of you are missing the fine-points of the new proposed regulations. You must have your 2257 documents ready to show the inspectors when they arrive at your front door. The documents MUST be in alphabetical order. You must also have your documents CROSS-INDEXED by the stage names used by the performers AND by the locations of where these performers can be found (video name, URL, etc.) If one document is out of order (eg: not alphabetized) then that is a violation. The inspectors may visit you up to three times a year.

The obvious purpose of making this so difficult is to drive the porn industry out of business.

(And to the poster above who said that there is no funding or organization to do this - the Justice Department has set-up a new Obscenity Division to handle this.)

Since none of that is likely to fly, meaning I don't see thousands upon thousands of affiliates complying to that degree or being able to comply to that degree, what is the alternative?

I'd certainly love to hear Lenny's solution, but I doubt he has one. Mouthy obnoxious twits never do.

Like I posted earlier, I intend to lead anyone who cares to look on a path linking them directly back to the sponsor/program/owner's own 2257 information page. I see no other alternative, except to shut all your sites down of course. Unless you change out your sites to send hits to pay sites and FHG's via text links only, Yes, go with the clean look.

To me it is the most ridiculous thing to suggest that someone merely promoting (as in linking to) an adult pay site needs to be responsible for keeping records on all of IT'S content. A link to those records should suffice for affiliates. Hopefully there will be some upcoming court battles over this and maybe, just maybe we will see some changings such as I'm suggesting here. It would certainly be a hell of a lot simpler and make more sense to have affilliates linking to the sponsor's 2257 information than all this garbage about distributing millions of documents.

I don't see why anyone calling themself a webmaster would want to argue with that.

Mr.Fiction · 05-20-2005, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

the government just wants to organize and clean it up. Which I think we should have done in a long time. This way the conversions will get better and so will the retention when people can't view obscene content for free.

Do you honestly believe that?

If you really think that, you need to talk to your lawyer right now.

There is no free speech lawyer in the United States who is worth talking to that will tell you that the government is just doing this to help "organize" the adult industry.

The right wing claim this is a change to help fight child porn, but it is an attempt to stifle legal free speech and will do nothing to fight child porn.

This is an attack on free speech. "Obscene" content is another issue altogether.

RogerV · 05-20-2005, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fiction

Do you honestly believe that?

If you really think that, you need to talk to your lawyer right now.

There is no free speech lawyer in the United States who is worth talking to that will tell you that the government is just doing this to help "organize" the adult industry.

The right wing claim this is a change to help fight child porn, but it is an attempt to stifle legal free speech and will do nothing to fight child porn.

This is an attack on free speech. "Obscene" content is another issue altogether.

I totally understand! the companies who are fly by night and not orginized will have to worry if you comply to the regs you don't. It's as simple as that.

Trust me I know its a bitch but it can be done. the strong will survive

NaughtyRob · 05-20-2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iBanker

I really think I could pull off a digital solution. Gonna bat it around in my head over the weekend.

Try months. We have one just about ready.

Scootermuze · 05-20-2005, 08:43 PM

It's hard to think that just because Gonzales signed something that all of a sudden everyone with sexually explicit content should expect a knock on the door.... His signature didn't automatically increase the number of people looking at sites...

They may approach people that have content that looks questionable enough for them to feel a need for a second look, but I can't see it going farther than that...

Not enough folks on staff ...

slapass · 05-20-2005, 09:42 PM

It is odd that my solution is shrug off as the sponsors are too flaky. I think they view us the affiliate as too flaky to hold these documents. I suppose we could get a digital solution like stats remote where we input some fields and it generates the files needed based on the sponsors info. But the affiliates and the sponsors are going to need to work together on it to work. Very few big sponsors have closed that i know of. They are the more logical choice of a depository then we are. As how many affiliates have closed up this year?

wimpy · 05-20-2005, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

Then again, you would still run into the whole thing about stalkers... I could pretend the detectives came looking for the info... I would imagine they would also have some kinda important papers with the papers they are looking for stated on them... Then I could fax that to you... but then you would still not know if I am just a stalker...

The stalker solution is simple. Just encrypt the 2257 info.

wimpy · 05-20-2005, 11:16 PM

Most people miss this simple fact: The Right in this country is out to shut down porn. After much thought, this is the mechanism they decided on to do it. Anyone who thinks it is anything else is delusional.

They hired 25 lawyers (prosecutors) who work on this full time. They didn't have that a year ago. Those lawyers are going to be doing something, that's for sure. ok, so no more cops looking at the sites, but so what? Before, the cops had no prosecutors who wanted the case. Now they do. Bingo.

Even if they can't take on everyone, all they have to do it take on 1% and the rest will shit their pants. That's their plan.

It won't work. But it will change things. A lot.

Nate-MM2 · 05-20-2005, 11:53 PM

Another huge thing to consider is if they start taking obscenity pleas in exchange for lighter sentencing for 2257 violations they have access to a huge stream of cash since you can tie in obscenity charges as RICO violations and they can start siezing assets.

Mr.Fiction · 05-21-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

I totally understand! the companies who are fly by night and not orginized will have to worry if you comply to the regs you don't. It's as simple as that.

Trust me I know its a bitch but it can be done. the strong will survive

We were talking about intent. This was not done to "organize" the adult industry, it was done to try to shut it down. Do you really think that free speech hating right wingers want to help "organize" this industry? They want all porn to be illegal, and until they can pack enough courts to make that happen, they'll try to go around the Constitution by doing it some other way.

These people hate free speech. They want to be able to control everything that every American does or says, even in your bedroom. This is an attack on free speech.

GatorB · 05-21-2005, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iBanker

Here is where it gets really interesting. There is no way in hell, I intend on freely passing out copies of all 2257 for every Joe webmaster that comes along saying he needs it to ?comply?. So don?t ask???

If you are going to provide free content then you really don't have a choice. If I use your free content and the DOJ asks me for the paperwork and I tell them you REFUSED to give it to me. Well that won't be a fun day for either for us.

So if sponsors don't want to have to give out the 2257 info then they'll have to stop giving out free content. Of course then that my mean losing affiliates to sponsors that will.

GatorB · 05-21-2005, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fiction

We were talking about intent. This was not done to "organize" the adult industry, it was done to try to shut it down. Do you really think that free speech hating right wingers want to help "organize" this industry?

Yet this will be the downfall of the right wingers. See they don't consider porn a "legitimate" business so in their minds it can be shut down. Funny thing is when you start regulating porn you are basically legitimizing it as a business. After all if it isn't legitimate then why regulate it? Is prostitution outside of Nevada regulated? Is dope dealing regualted? No. Why? Because they aren't considered legitimate businesses. So the more you try to regualte smething the more you say "Ok this is a REAL business" and once you've established that, it's going to be hard for the right wingers to put that genie in the bottle. Just be glad they lack forward vision.

johnnyhey · 05-21-2005, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Each release is 6 pages long

is that the 48 point version? wtf

grumpy · 05-21-2005, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iBanker

Okay, without getting into a discussion on what could happen, or getting everyones different opinion on what 2257 is all about (because I have read all these posts and it is aparent that more than half the people either didn't read and of it, or don't understad the current regs as is), check this out:

I'm with JasonandAlex.com. Lets say we take our new tranny site for example:

www.sexyshemalesfrombrazil.com

Lets say we have a total of 50 scenes of exclusive content shot for that site, and that site only. I know for a fact we have all the proper documentation to abide to 2257 because we shot it all down in Brazil and our producer was pretty much told, if he didn't come back with the EXACT proper paperwork for any of the models he would not get paid. Period. Luckily, he knows what he was doing (Contact me if you want his name).

So anyway, 50 scenes were shot. Two people per scene, and 4 threesome scenes in there as well for total of 104 releases needing to be signed. This is also 104 copies of government issued IDs. Each release is 6 pages long, plus one page for the highly enlarged copy of their identification card (AGAIN, government issued). This is a total of 728 pages of 2257 documentation for ONE site already.

In addition to that, we scan in every release and 2257 related info and store it digitally as well. This takes approximately 2 days to do properly. The next step is putting everything into a database. Fact of the matter is, we act as if the Feds are coming in to check on this the minute the sight goes live, and they point at our members area at a specific girl and say "I want to see her ID and proof that she is 18 or above."

Now, for us this would take about 15 seconds to pull that up. We have a Master Spreadsheet for all of our sites and content, and we have an additional Master Spreadsheet for each and every site. Simply cross reference the stage name, to the spreadsheet, to the actor/actress real name, flip through the filing cabinet, broken down alphabetically, and yank it out. We have back ups of all of the originals in storage as well. The Master Spreadsheet for one site takes about 1.5 days to finish.

So before we go further, lets go over the cost of all of this up until now:

$450.00 - Legal work regarding documentation
$25.00 - Paper/Ink/Printing cost of original 2257
$25.00 ? Paper/Ink/Printing cost of 2257 backups.
$500.00 ? Payment of $10.00 per scene to producer for proper records and offsite 2257 work.
$700.00 ? Payment for Administrative Assistant to scan, copy, file, and create spreadsheets.

$1,700 ? Total

I know I missed a bunch of stuff as well, but I?m trying to keep this simple. Even if you call it $2,000 per site, it?s a fairly reasonable cost of doing business. No, I am not defending the 2257 rules and regs, just stating a fact.

Here is where it gets really interesting. There is no way in hell, I intend on freely passing out copies of all 2257 for every Joe webmaster that comes along saying he needs it to ?comply?. So don?t ask??

(I?ll come back and finish where I?m going with this: including how it affects TGPs from the programs perspective (both small and large), how it effects webmasters, the implementation of invite only webmasters, the costs associated with it, etc? I gotta get some work done really quick?

stop crying, you make good money from it. I applaude the regulations, there is to much shit flooting around.

Icy · 05-21-2005, 02:46 AM

To the ones that say that you don't need sponsor content to promote a paysite... well what about single girl sites? how are you going to promote them without the girl?
About this regulations, well for what i have read, they are not in the street yet so probably it will suffer tons of changes until it's finally released. We have been talking about this issue for months and from time to time something new is said and everybody start to talk like that they know it all but we don't know shit yet about how this will affect our bussines, we can guess how it will be, we can ask lawyers that dont' know shit either but at the end by now we can only guess. The first post has been really informative but most of the discussion is based only on guesses, the sky is not falling yet.

The Other Steve · 05-21-2005, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpy

stop crying, you make good money from it. I applaude the regulations, there is to much shit flooting around.

Sometimes I despair for the intelligence levels of some people who have posted in this thread.

grumpy · 05-21-2005, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Other Steve

Sometimes I despair for the intelligence levels of some people who have posted in this thread.

you my sir are a funny guy.

faxxaff · 05-21-2005, 04:41 AM

I make my bucks thru textlinks and non-explicit banners. Looks like nothing will change for me and I can keep my cheap US server :-) Lucky bastard I am.

Rui · 05-21-2005, 04:51 AM

Changing times ahead no doubt about that...

xxxjay · 05-21-2005, 04:56 AM

This is a really good post.

xxxjay · 05-21-2005, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by latinasojourn

this thread should be copied to the FSC as a court exhibit.

I agree - I just emailed the the link.

MsCheyenne · 05-21-2005, 06:06 AM

It reads as if webhosts will be exempt from 2257, in regard to maintaining a copy of the model's docs. Couldn't review sites, directory guides with galleries and tpgs, simply set up as a webhost and give their sponsors a free website? Could this also be an avenue to promote affliate programs that don't have free hosted galleries without everyone having to send a copy of their docs?

It is just a raw idea. What do you think?

Cheyenne

invza1 · 05-21-2005, 06:07 AM

Quote:

stop crying, you make good money from it. I applaude the regulations, there is to much shit flooting around.

GRUMPY, it goes without saying that your comment is arrogant and thoughtless. You obviously think that since you live in Canada you're exempt from the burden of these amendments. If there was a new porn rule or law that adversely affected Canadians
and US residents werent affected my attitude wouldnt be 'stop crying'. Jesus Crist! You applaud the regulations because there is too much shit floating (oops you did type 'flooting' you Canadians and your 'o's) - (1.)child pornography is already illegal - the people making a killing from cp are not going to stop making it because of some 2257 amendments (2.) as far as obscenity goes the people doing fisting, golden showers, California mudslides, and beastiality aren't to stop making it because of 2257 amendments. So please tell me how any of the changes do anything about 'too much shit floating around'??? How about you take your garbage sites offline so then there will be less shit floating around.

Nysus · 05-21-2005, 06:20 AM

"Essentially we start doing a background check on them. Why? Because if his answer to number 3 above is NO for what ever reason, then I essentially have to send him copies of all the 2257 info for the site he is pushing. God forbid he wants to promote 10 sites of ours without free hosting, then I am sending him literally over 7,000 pages of information. And that is one affiliate. So 1,000 affiliates in a program (we have more than that, but keeping the numbers simple, imagine what nasty dollars has?lol) at that point costs me 7,000,000 pieces of paper. That paper needs to be printed on, and someone needs to be paid to do it. I?m not even going to guess what that costs, but essentially, we are no longer a porn company, WE ARE A PUBLISHING company."

Pretty sure you're wrong there. It's the producer / owned of the content that is required to hold onto the 2257, and affiliates would merely be 'licensed' for free to use your content but would have to link to a page that lists your main 2257 holder's name/address/contact information, etc...

Tell me if I'm wrong and why?

Matt

Nysus · 05-21-2005, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyhey

is that the 48 point version? wtf

Jokingly...

It's really big print ...

Matt

chadglni · 05-21-2005, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDSmith

You're right, it wasn't legal advice. I was going by what their main mission statement read as, which from what I understand of plain English means they want access to the information they want access to. I plan to comply and provide that access.

Lenny just loves to cock off at me whenever he gets the opportunity for some odd reason. I must smell good today.

That isn't immediate access to the information because when they ask said producer to "show me the documents for the girl on this url" it's not even his damn site. He might not remember all girls by looking at them, the page might have changed, and he damn sure won't have the legally required database listing every page that model is on because YOU would be the producer of that site, not him. Regardless of your opinion, your way would help nothing. Hell people do that now.

CDSmith · 05-21-2005, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadglni

That isn't immediate access to the information because when they ask said producer to "show me the documents for the girl on this url" it's not even his damn site. He might not remember all girls by looking at them, the page might have changed, and he damn sure won't have the legally required database listing every page that model is on because YOU would be the producer of that site, not him. Regardless of your opinion, your way would help nothing. Hell people do that now.

It's better than nothing.

What's your solution? You conveniently left that part of your post out.

jayeff · 05-21-2005, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nysus

It's the producer / owned of the content that is required to hold onto the 2257, and affiliates would merely be 'licensed' for free to use your content but would have to link to a page that lists your main 2257 holder's name/address/contact information, etc...

It's good that you have a reasonable handle on the old 2257 regs, but where have you been the last few months? Unless what has just passed into law is considerably softer than the original proposals, one major difference is that everyone displaying sexually explicit material is now responsible for keeping their own records.

As someone else noted, the only way to get affiliates who want to use more than heavily censored content off the hook, is if the sponsor hosts the content and the affiliate is therefore not the page/site operator.

Nysus · 05-21-2005, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

It's good that you have a reasonable handle on the old 2257 regs, but where have you been the last few months? Unless what has just passed into law is considerably softer than the original proposals, one major difference is that everyone displaying sexually explicit material is now responsible for keeping their own records.

As someone else noted, the only way to get affiliates who want to use more than heavily censored content off the hook, is if the sponsor hosts the content and the affiliate is therefore not the page/site operator.

The news link xxxjay posted in a different thread mentioned the producer having to have proper identification on hand to be able to prove age, it mentions nothing about publishers of content, other than the 'old' 2257 (unless there has been a big update I missed, is possible) which states that any publishers must state where the content's producer is and their contact information, so they can quickly check to see if models are of age.

Matt

Alex From San Diego · 05-21-2005, 07:16 AM

Looks like quite a few people have recently slept at a Holiday Inn.

chadglni · 05-21-2005, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDSmith

It's better than nothing.

What's your solution? You conveniently left that part of your post out.

I don't use explicit pics on my pages now. I also live in Canada. The only reason I'm concerned with this crap at all is because the majority of companies I work with are US based. If they have problems it will cause trouble for everyone.

jayeff · 05-21-2005, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nysus

The news link xxxjay posted in a different thread mentioned the producer having to have proper identification on hand to be able to prove age

As far as I'm aware, the Federal Register has not been updated so that we can know precisely what was passed into law. But the key elements of the proposals that were published last Fall, ahead of the "consultation" phase were:

1. Anyone who displays sexually explicit material will be required to keep identification/age records that formerly only the primary producers had to keep. In other words, linking to records held by someone else will no longer be adequate.

2. There are new and more complex rules about what records must be kept and how they should be indexed.

3. The records have to available on demand (at least) during normal business hours.

05-20-2005, 04:08 PM	#101
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,422	2257 - 101 I live in America where policy is dictated by what is on the frong page news, or what you want to keep OFF of the front page news... Mon - Wed \| 1pm - 4pm \| 2257 Compliance 101 \| Staff - TBA \| Building 1 \| Room 7 Last edited by V_RocKs; 05-20-2005 at 04:09 PM..

05-20-2005, 04:14 PM	#102
iBanker Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego, moving to Portland. Posts: 2,758	I really think I could pull off a digital solution. Gonna bat it around in my head over the weekend. __________________ www.JasonandAlex.com Christopher's ICQ: 268-843-170

05-20-2005, 11:16 PM	#126
wimpy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 607	Most people miss this simple fact: The Right in this country is out to shut down porn. After much thought, this is the mechanism they decided on to do it. Anyone who thinks it is anything else is delusional. They hired 25 lawyers (prosecutors) who work on this full time. They didn't have that a year ago. Those lawyers are going to be doing something, that's for sure. ok, so no more cops looking at the sites, but so what? Before, the cops had no prosecutors who wanted the case. Now they do. Bingo. Even if they can't take on everyone, all they have to do it take on 1% and the rest will shit their pants. That's their plan. It won't work. But it will change things. A lot. __________________ Fyodor Dostoyevsky wrote: "Every man has reminiscences which he would not tell to everyone but only his friends. He has other matters in his mind which he would not reveal even to his friends, but only to himself, and that in secret. But there are other things which a man is afraid to tell even to himself, and every decent man has a number of such things stored away in his mind." icq 8243657

05-21-2005, 02:46 AM	#133
Icy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 864	To the ones that say that you don't need sponsor content to promote a paysite... well what about single girl sites? how are you going to promote them without the girl? About this regulations, well for what i have read, they are not in the street yet so probably it will suffer tons of changes until it's finally released. We have been talking about this issue for months and from time to time something new is said and everybody start to talk like that they know it all but we don't know shit yet about how this will affect our bussines, we can guess how it will be, we can ask lawyers that dont' know shit either but at the end by now we can only guess. The first post has been really informative but most of the discussion is based only on guesses, the sky is not falling yet. __________________ Kimia: Make money with mobile traffic, both adult and mainstream Skype: sinlords - ICQ: 83-235-881 email: ivan at kimia.mobi

05-21-2005, 04:56 AM	#138
xxxjay Tube groupie. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: LoScandalous, CA Posts: 13,482	This is a really good post. __________________ http://donttellmehowtoruinmylife.com/ - http://www.jmdigitalmarketing.com/my...s-and-reviews/ - http://www.wouldyouhitit.org - http://shinyobjectreviews.com/

05-20-2005, 04:56 PM	#103
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,422	Well, the 2257 data just has to be available right? So lets say two detectives come to my house and ask me for that data... Then I contact you and say, Yo! I need that data... Then you create me an account so I can go online and print that data to my printer. Then I give that data to the detectives and they can lick my sweaty balls... Who am I kidding.. I use air conditioning, my balls are cold as ice.

05-20-2005, 04:58 PM	#104
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,422	Then again, you would still run into the whole thing about stalkers... I could pretend the detectives came looking for the info... I would imagine they would also have some kinda important papers with the papers they are looking for stated on them... Then I could fax that to you... but then you would still not know if I am just a stalker...

05-20-2005, 05:20 PM	#107
fireorange Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,648	Why couldn't the sponsors give affiliates the 2257 documents in digital format but encrypted and when the government asks the affiliate for the docs, the affiliate calls the sponsor's special hotline and request it and they give the affiliate the key to de-crypt the data into readable text?

05-20-2005, 05:35 PM	#110
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	Most of the US based Programs I know have been prepared for these new Regs for a year now so it?s no surprise we will evolve and comply if you don?t want to get in trouble with the law. It?s a pain in the ass but it not impossible to comply. They have put so much money into the war on drugs has it even effected it. Not that I can tell, I still see kids buying whatever illegal drug they want and drugs are illegal Pornography isn't at least not since the last time I checked. Follow the rules the government just wants to organize and clean it up. Which I think we should have done in a long time. This way the conversions will get better and so will the retention when people can't view obscene content for free. I?m not going to go into anymore detail just study and follow the new rules very simple We will evolve and prosper

05-20-2005, 07:17 PM	#113
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Sponsor content (not throw away stuff but actual "from the site" stuff) is the best way to sell the product, increases the conversions, and lowers the chance of a chargeback because the content shown in the sale (free site) is the same as what is on the site. Under what was originally proposed, it would be required to hand full 2257 documents to every affiliate wanting to use the content. That is overwhelming amounts of paper out there (imaging a program with 1000 affiliates used 30 images each per day... )that would be 60,000 pieces of paper having to be mailed each day... and the end of 1 year that is 22 million pieces of new paperwork not currently required by law. Multiple that over the hundreds of bigger program out there with content, multiply by the number of sites each one has, and you are looking at more than a billion new pieces of paper - and not a single bit of it will stop child porn. The scale of the government's idea is a little overwhelming. Alex

05-20-2005, 07:44 PM	#114
orcastudios Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 20	Some of you are missing the fine-points of the new proposed regulations. You must have your 2257 documents ready to show the inspectors when they arrive at your front door. The documents MUST be in alphabetical order. You must also have your documents CROSS-INDEXED by the stage names used by the performers AND by the locations of where these performers can be found (video name, URL, etc.) If one document is out of order (eg: not alphabetized) then that is a violation. The inspectors may visit you up to three times a year. The obvious purpose of making this so difficult is to drive the porn industry out of business. (And to the poster above who said that there is no funding or organization to do this - the Justice Department has set-up a new Obscenity Division to handle this.)

05-20-2005, 08:43 PM	#123
Scootermuze Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,513	It's hard to think that just because Gonzales signed something that all of a sudden everyone with sexually explicit content should expect a knock on the door.... His signature didn't automatically increase the number of people looking at sites... They may approach people that have content that looks questionable enough for them to feel a need for a second look, but I can't see it going farther than that... Not enough folks on staff ...

05-20-2005, 09:42 PM	#124
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,625	It is odd that my solution is shrug off as the sponsors are too flaky. I think they view us the affiliate as too flaky to hold these documents. I suppose we could get a digital solution like stats remote where we input some fields and it generates the files needed based on the sponsors info. But the affiliates and the sponsors are going to need to work together on it to work. Very few big sponsors have closed that i know of. They are the more logical choice of a depository then we are. As how many affiliates have closed up this year?

05-20-2005, 11:53 PM	#127
Nate-MM2 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, CANADA Posts: 263	Another huge thing to consider is if they start taking obscenity pleas in exchange for lighter sentencing for 2257 violations they have access to a huge stream of cash since you can tie in obscenity charges as RICO violations and they can start siezing assets.

05-21-2005, 04:41 AM	#136
faxxaff Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Marina Hemingway Posts: 2,134	I make my bucks thru textlinks and non-explicit banners. Looks like nothing will change for me and I can keep my cheap US server :-) Lucky bastard I am.

05-21-2005, 04:51 AM	#137
Rui web Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: On icq: 85-483-060 Posts: 9,533	Changing times ahead no doubt about that...

05-21-2005, 06:06 AM	#140
MsCheyenne Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 412	If webhosts are exempt It reads as if webhosts will be exempt from 2257, in regard to maintaining a copy of the model's docs. Couldn't review sites, directory guides with galleries and tpgs, simply set up as a webhost and give their sponsors a free website? Could this also be an avenue to promote affliate programs that don't have free hosted galleries without everyone having to send a copy of their docs? It is just a raw idea. What do you think? Cheyenne __________________ ClubDom.com \| SubbyHubby.com \| ClubDomCash.com

05-21-2005, 06:20 AM	#142
Nysus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,817	"Essentially we start doing a background check on them. Why? Because if his answer to number 3 above is NO for what ever reason, then I essentially have to send him copies of all the 2257 info for the site he is pushing. God forbid he wants to promote 10 sites of ours without free hosting, then I am sending him literally over 7,000 pages of information. And that is one affiliate. So 1,000 affiliates in a program (we have more than that, but keeping the numbers simple, imagine what nasty dollars has?lol) at that point costs me 7,000,000 pieces of paper. That paper needs to be printed on, and someone needs to be paid to do it. I?m not even going to guess what that costs, but essentially, we are no longer a porn company, WE ARE A PUBLISHING company." Pretty sure you're wrong there. It's the producer / owned of the content that is required to hold onto the 2257, and affiliates would merely be 'licensed' for free to use your content but would have to link to a page that lists your main 2257 holder's name/address/contact information, etc... Tell me if I'm wrong and why? Matt __________________ What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets See https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money-post16744521.html and for more detailed see https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948645-re-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail-pr0-untouched-markets.html

05-21-2005, 07:16 AM	#148
Alex From San Diego Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,642	Looks like quite a few people have recently slept at a Holiday Inn. __________________ We are what we repeatedly do.-Aristotle