CCBill - What The Fuck???

[DeanCapture]

I joined a site last night and as is the case with a lot of adult websites....the members area was totol shit. Nothing that was promised on the tour was in the members area....what a fucking rip-off. I just don't see how webmasters can get away with shit like this?

So, I emailed CCBill within 3 minutes of getting access to the website and politely asked for a refund and that I not be rebilled. They wrote back to me and said that they have cancelled the rebilling but that they will not refund my money and that I have access to the website for the amount of days that were purchased.

Why the fuck would I want access to a website that fucking ripped me off in the first place. Why does CCBill let adult webmasters get away with shit like this? I thought CCBill was some of the good-guys in this industry. This just sucks a big one CCBill - WTF????

[DutchTeenCash]

email the guy and ask for a refund, if the members is crap he will refund otherwise youll cb he knows that, besides theres the new void function

[SpaceAce]

Our members area has everything we promise and more but people still get refunds. I don't know why you can't get one unless maybe it was a trial.

SpaceAce

[JSA Matt]

You have to see it from both sides...

being a program owner, you would be pretty pissed off if CCBill (or any processor) handed out credits to anyone that simply called and requested it.

[Calvinguy]

Thats not my experience with ccbill... send them an email saying that you can't download the content and they will issue a refund

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by SpaceAce

Our members area has everything we promise and more but people still get refunds. I don't know why you can't get one unless maybe it was a trial.

SpaceAce

No trail - it was $19.95 for 30 days....here's CCBill response:
---------

Dear Customer,

I have canceled the account from re billing, although I cannot issue any credits for the account it is canceled and you have access for the amount of days that were purchased, the subscription becomes non-refundable once the submit button has been pressed. It states all that in the terms and conditions.

Regards,

Nick N.
Customer Support
---------

I'm sure it does NOT state in the terms that even though an adult webmaster has a website that rips people off by not giving them what is promised on the tours - that people will have to live with that.

This particular website had a tour (and a sample movie) that promised high-quality mpeg movies featuring certain talent and upon entering the members area the only thing that was there was some picture galleries and a plugin to "gotjizz.com". I explained this to CCBill but apparently they don't give a shit about it. It's really not about the money as much as it's about CCBill letting this webmaster fuck people out of their money.

[Calvinguy]

Originally Posted by JSA Matt

You have to see it from both sides...

being a program owner, you would be pretty pissed off if CCBill (or any processor) handed out credits to anyone that simply called and requested it.

CCbill does that... all it take is a phonecall

[collegegirlvids]

Name the site! =)

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by JSA Matt

You have to see it from both sides...

being a program owner, you would be pretty pissed off if CCBill (or any processor) handed out credits to anyone that simply called and requested it.

All CCBill has to do it go to the website, walk thru the 2 page tour - log into the members area and they can see for themselves that the site is total bullshit. But instead of doing this...and doing what's right - they want to keep my money and invite me to have access to the website for 29 more days

[corvette]

dean, i had just read your first post, i had noticed your icq # under your handle and am icqing you now regarding this, lets look at what happened together

-Mark

[DeanCapture]

Funny - I just wrote to Nick @ CCBill and gave him a little piece of my mind...here's his reply:

--------
Dear Customer,

I'm sorry you feel that way about me, but you are still not eligible to receive a refund.

Regards,

Nick N.
Customer Support
-------

Well, I tried to do this the nice way - I guess I'll have to call Visa to get this straighted out.

[Tom_PM]

Oh course they'd have to give you a standard policy answer. Perhaps they have no idea that the members area has been changed since it was approved or something along those lines.

[Naughty]

It's the site owner's job to refund, not CCBill's.

[cherrylula]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Funny - I just wrote to Nick @ CCBill and gave him a little piece of my mind...here's his reply:

--------
Dear Customer,

I'm sorry you feel that way about me, but you are still not eligible to receive a refund.

Regards,

Nick N.
Customer Support
-------

Well, I tried to do this the nice way - I guess I'll have to call Visa to get this straighted out.

hahaha please don't charge back its going to make all our scrubs go up

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by corvett

dean, i had just read your first post, i had noticed your icq # under your handle and am icqing you now regarding this, lets look at what happened together

-Mark

Mark - with all due respect - why should I get special attention for a problem like this when the average surfer would not? I mean...I appreciate you offering to help but look what I had to do to get your attention. I know beyond a doubt that I'll get my money back...either from CCBill or from Visa, but the average person who get's ripped off by this website just has to live with that right?

There's a problem somewhere in your system that allows you guys to keep peoples money even though they've been ripped off by a site - and that to me seems like a pretty serious problem that should be looked into.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by collegegirlvids

Name the site! =)

Yes, please name the offending site! This is the kinda shit that makes it hard for the honest webmasters in the industry.

I don't think this is a CCBill issue at all. As a program/site owner I don't want them handing out refunds to every deadbeat that writes/calls them saying, "I the want a refund because..."

[DarkJedi]

Post the sites URL and do a chargeback.

[Tony Montana]

Charge it back!

[EscortBiz]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Mark - with all due respect - why should I get special attention for a problem like this when the average surfer would not? I mean...I appreciate you offering to help but look what I had to do to get your attention. I know beyond a doubt that I'll get my money back...either from CCBill or from Visa, but the average person who get's ripped off by this website just has to live with that right?

There's a problem somewhere in your system that allows you guys to keep peoples money even though they've been ripped off by a site - and that to me seems like a pretty serious problem that should be looked into.

when you run a billing company and listen to the calls that come in then decide if there is a problem or not.

Do you understand that people will abuse sites all day if its easy to get refunds, do you understand that you can give some people everything and they still bitch, so calm down and move on noone is changing anything ccbill and every billing company has already tried everything and this is the format that fuckin works.

Enjoy

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

ccbill and every billing company has already tried everything and this is the format that fuckin works.

Enjoy

This works? Charging people $19.95 for a months subscription to a website that doesn't give it's members what is promised in the tour - that works?

[Bansheelinks]

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

Do you understand that people will abuse sites all day if its easy to get refunds, do you understand that you can give some people everything and they still bitch, so calm down

Most webmasters of repute would agree with the above. Its too easy for the abusers to lie and scam their way into a refund, not the opposite. I can't believe the whining that began this thread. Sure there are rip-off sites but how much do you make in this biz? Its not as if you are flipping burgers at McD's for chrissakes. You'd think you bought a lemon for a new car or something.

[EscortBiz]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

This works? Charging people $19.95 for a months subscription to a website that doesn't give it's members what is promised in the tour - that works?

again we are talking about billing and refund policies, yeah the guy who fucked you is wrong but from a billing company stand point its hard to just say for every caller who wants a refund give a refund. The site owner should do it thou

[JSA Matt]

Originally Posted by Calvinguy

CCbill does that... all it take is a phonecall

Yes, we have tested it before... they issued a full refund without even asking why.

ps: Netbilling kicks ass, see sig to take advantage of a REAL billing solution

[Drake]

What site was it?

[pornstar2pac]

why did you buy a membership to a midget tranny site?


i understand you were pissed when there were no midgets in the members area

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by Bansheelinks

I can't believe the whining that began this thread. Sure there are rip-off sites but how much do you make in this biz? Its not as if you are flipping burgers at McD's for chrissakes. You'd think you bought a lemon for a new car or something.

Well, it's not about the money really...it's the principle. I do quite well in this business but not everybody who joins an adult website does well. How many other people have joined shitty sites that didn't deliver on what they promised and were ripped off...and were not able to get their money back? This is ok with you?

[corvette]

Dean, just from reading what you wrote, our csrs walk a fine line in their decisions on whether to issue a refund or not. The process is such that we want our CSRs focusing on their job, emails and phone calls. If they are informed of an issue with the site not delivering what was promised, they make their decision based on the information that they receive and then turn that account over to the Policy Review Dept. to review for any AUP violations?

Perhaps if you had given a few detailed examples in your email, then the outcome may have been different, but I do not know this for certain. With thousands among thousands of consumer communications a day with dozens of different CSRs, it is difficult to make the process 100% perfect, but by and large, it seems to work well overall.

Btw, I have seen many threads where people complain that we issue refunds too easily, it is very difficult to please everyone?

[Jake]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

This works? Charging people $19.95 for a months subscription to a website that doesn't give it's members what is promised in the tour - that works?

Still waiting for the URL of the site in question?

[Bansheelinks]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Well, it's not about the money really...it's the principle. I do quite well in this business but not everybody who joins an adult website does well. How many other people have joined shitty sites that didn't deliver on what they promised and were ripped off...and were not able to get their money back? This is ok with you?

You should have started by emailing the webmaster of the site in question & explaining your position. They'd rather void it as its a ccbill site than get a CB and get scrubbed harder. That is the way you should have proceeded instead of going public and causing a big stink on this board.

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by corvett

Perhaps if you had given a few detailed examples in your email, then the outcome may have been different, but I do not know this for certain.

Mark - I'm not sure if I could have been anymore detailed than this:

Hey folks - I signed up to this website 5 minutes ago and can tell you that this website is a total rip-off. None of the girls found on the tour or the sample video clip are in the website. I watched the sample video clip and that's why I joined.....after getting inside the only video clips are from a plugin - and that's not what the tour is offering.

I would like a complete refund of my 19.95 immediately and do not rebill again in the future.

[Twe Russ]

Its called, you got caught out there. ;)

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by Bansheelinks

You should have started by emailing the webmaster of the site in question & explaining your position. They'd rather void it as its a ccbill site than get a CB and get scrubbed harder. That is the way you should have proceeded instead of going public and causing a big stink on this board.

I don't think I caused a big stink - CCBill caused it. All they had to do was refund my money and no one would have ever heard about this. Do you think that the average surfer who get's ripped off would have contacted the site owner or the people who billed their credit card? I know that CCBill does do refunds - there's no reason that I should have to contact the site owner when CCBill is capable of doing this for me. They are the ones that should contact the site owner and tell him to get his shit together or they will stop doing business with him. The only reason they have had to deal with me is because the site is a rip-off. And CCBill does not seem to care as long as people continue to pay $19.95 to gain access to it.

[Bansheelinks]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Mark - I'm not sure if I could have been anymore detailed than this:

Hey folks - I signed up to this website 5 minutes ago and can tell you that this website is a total rip-off. None of the girls found on the tour or the sample video clip are in the website. I watched the sample video clip and that's why I joined.....after getting inside the only video clips are from a plugin - and that's not what the tour is offering.

I would like a complete refund of my 19.95 immediately and do not rebill again in the future.

Dean, once again, you should have started by emailing the webmaster of the site in question & explain your position so they could void your transaction with the new void feature personally. Webmasters with ccbill would rather take a void than a CB in order to avoid higher scrub levels, don't you think?

I also noted you have refrained from naming the URL. My advice to you is to continue to refrain. Drop the wrong name and you could reap the whirlwind. Being ripped off may be a reality, Dean, but handle this matter internally as what happened to you is subjective. But whats happening on the boards in this thread could be construed as damaging to some. E-mail the webmaster. If he/she is worth his or her salt, they should accomodate you.

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by Bansheelinks

Dean, once again, you should have started by emailing the webmaster of the site in question & explain your position so they could void your transaction with the new void feature personally. Webmasters with ccbill would rather take a void than a CB in order to avoid higher scrub levels, don't you think?

I also noted you have refrained from naming the URL. My advice to you is to continue to refrain. Drop the wrong name and you could reap the whirlwind. Being ripped off may be a reality, Dean, but handle this matter internally as what happened to you is subjective. But whats happening on the boards in this thread could be construed as damaging to some. E-mail the webmaster. If he/she is worth his or her salt, they should accomodate you.

I have no intention of naming the site at this time. However, I can tell you that it is part of a program that belongs to a highly respected member of this community.

If I had emailed the website owner and gotten my refund, how many other people might have signed up in the future and gotten ripped off? I wanted to handle this thru CCBill so that they would take notice that there is a problem with the website. I wanted them to know that the tour promises things that the members area does not deliver. Now, if CCBill is cool with doing business with people like this - that's fine. But if they are not, they now know that there is a problem. Had I contacted the site owner initially....CCBill would not be aware of this problem and take steps to fix it.

[Bansheelinks]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

I have no intention of naming the site at this time. However, I can tell you that it is part of a program that belongs to a highly respected member of this community.

If I had emailed the website owner and gotten my refund, how many other people might have signed up in the future and gotten ripped off? I wanted to handle this thru CCBill so that they would take notice that there is a problem with the website. I wanted them to know that the tour promises things that the members area does not deliver. Now, if CCBill is cool with doing business with people like this - that's fine. But if they are not, they now know that there is a problem. Had I contacted the site owner initially....CCBill would not be aware of this problem and take steps to fix it.

fair enough.........but ultimately where's your logic? ccbill gave you your answer now its up to you to email the website owner and get him/her to void the transaction.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

I don't think I caused a big stink - CCBill caused it. All they had to do was refund my money and no one would have ever heard about this. Do you think that the average surfer who get's ripped off would have contacted the site owner or the people who billed their credit card? I know that CCBill does do refunds - there's no reason that I should have to contact the site owner when CCBill is capable of doing this for me. They are the ones that should contact the site owner and tell him to get his shit together or they will stop doing business with him. The only reason they have had to deal with me is because the site is a rip-off. And CCBill does not seem to care as long as people continue to pay $19.95 to gain access to it.

So far, I bet this has cost $40 or more in real money talking about it.

I know exactly what you mean in several instances re content - or the lack of it - even from "big sites".

If it was that bad - why not take "revenge" out on the site operator and lodge one of more complaints with them, - and if that fails, then consider contact with CCBill?

You can't blame a processor for a policy that, by far, is justified. There are far more scam surfers than scam sites.

That will be $20 for my fee to make this post - I'll give you the discount rate - thanks

[corvette]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

The only reason they have had to deal with me is because the site is a rip-off. And CCBill does not seem to care as long as people continue to pay $19.95 to gain access to it.

dean, with all due respect, this is absolutely not true. We have a team of people that review our clients sites to ensure that the they do follow the CCBill AUP. The site that you brought up is already being looked at and if we find that it is an issue with the website not delivering what was promised, we will address it with the client. In the future, if you notice any sites that you feel misrepresent what is delivered in the members area, please do not hesitate to inform [email protected] of this. Thank you and your support is apprecated. again, if you would like to talk further about this with myself, my icq # is 45471840

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by Bansheelinks

fair enough.........but ultimately where's your logic? ccbill gave you your answer now its up to you to email the website owner and get him/her to void the transaction.

My logic is that I'm giving CCBill to the end of today to satisfy me. If by morning we don't have this settled, I'll be posting the website address and the affiliate program that runs it here for all to see. I'll then call Visa and get my refund. CCBill has fucked up royally on this one. All they had to do was tell me that they would look into it and get back with me but instead....they flat out rejected my request for a refund twice....without any kind of investigation and that sucks a big one.

[nnweb]

what site was it?

[Sophmaster]

Well , like others I though it's better to tell us wich site it is and fucking don't care about who it is .... a rip off is a rip off ! Anyway CCbill doing great job with all of us and good customer service (fast too) . You don't wanna name that website on here but you give shit to another one on this board (CCbill) where's the logic of that ?

[diesel]

Just think how much websites ccbill billing for ..
They always check content of the site before launch but webmaster can change tour after his website approved and that's impossible to handle without complain. Bitch the webmaster not ccbill.

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by corvett

The site that you brought up is already being looked at and if we find that it is an issue with the website not delivering what was promised, we will address it with the client.

Mark - this is good to know. However, I have already been refused twice for a refund so how does this benefit me exactly? Perhaps you should have done the investigation "before" you refused my request for a refund no?

This has been a very interesting experience to say the least. I joined a site, it was a rip-off, and the billing company refuses on two occasions to refund my money and then tells me that the site will be investigated. Meanwhile, they will share the proceeds from my credit card for a website that was a rip-off. This is logical?

[latinasojourn]

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

when you run a billing company and listen to the calls that come in then decide if there is a problem or not.

Do you understand that people will abuse sites all day if its easy to get refunds, do you understand that you can give some people everything and they still bitch, so calm down and move on noone is changing anything ccbill and every billing company has already tried everything and this is the format that fuckin works.

Enjoy

well said.

and also one other thing. most porn sites exist mostly as a masturbatory outlet---they are not high art.

and 1% of your loving surfers will sign up, blast a big load onto the ceiling, and then email you and say your content sucks, or their kid used their credit card to sign up, or it was the wifey's card, or someone fraudulently used their card, yada yada.

we ain't selling toasters here, we are selling orgasms for the most part, doing our service for humanity, and keeping the pervs safe at home releasing their tension.

and all that will not prevent a few wankers from wanting to play the "refund" game---regardless of how good your content is.

[DirtyDanza]

why are you blaming ccbill.... websites are like used cars you buy as is... I am sorry you "feel you got ripped off" but that is not for ccbill to deicide... that is for the website owner to deicide... if it was me and you were un happy I would go ahead and issue a refund right away and make good... you need to contact the site owner not ccbill they have nothing to do with it...

[TDF]

much a hubbub over 19.95. If dean does get his money back,will he not bitch again and the site keep signing unknowing surfers up? stay tuned..

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Dirty_DS

deicide

great fucking band

[diesel]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Mark - this is good to know. However, I have already been refused twice for a refund so how does this benefit me exactly? Perhaps you should have done the investigation "before" you refused my request for a refund no?

This has been a very interesting experience to say the least. I joined a site, it was a rip-off, and the billing company refuses on two occasions to refund my money and then tells me that the site will be investigated. Meanwhile, they will share the proceeds from my credit card for a website that was a rip-off. This is logical?

Relax and wait till they check the issue.
They cannot shut the site or give you refund without reviewing it. They also cannot review the site at the same moment when you complain because they may get 100 complains at the same time.

[TheLegacy]

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

when you run a billing company and listen to the calls that come in then decide if there is a problem or not.

Do you understand that people will abuse sites all day if its easy to get refunds, do you understand that you can give some people everything and they still bitch, so calm down and move on noone is changing anything ccbill and every billing company has already tried everything and this is the format that fuckin works.

Enjoy

one of the clearest statements made here. nicely done. CCbill is not too blame, obviously someone is trying to create drama where it doesnt belong

[DeanCapture]

I just received an email from CCBill and apparently they agree that the website did not deliver on what was promised in the tour so they have decided to refund my payment. In all fairness to CCBill - I know that they have no control over the content of adult websites, but.....they do have control over the billing for these websites and if the websites are cheating people out of their money, they should know about it.

Contacting the webmaster of this cheating website would have probably gotten my money returned but would have done nothing for others who will get ripped off in the future. By contacting CCBill with this complaint instead of the webmaster, I wanted to give them a heads-up on the situation so that they could take the steps to get it corrected. It's unfortunate that they decided to reject my request for a refund twice....but in the end, they agreed that I was a victim of a scamming webmaster and made things right.

Some of you clowns need to get a fucking clue. I got ripped the fuck off and I was trying to not only get my money back but also keep others from getting ripped off in the future by this website. What the fuck is wrong with that? How is contacting the webmaster going to help others from getting ripped off in the future? If he scammed me - he'll scam others - end of fucking story!

Hopefully CCBill will get this taken care of so that other people arn't ripped off by this website. All you hardworking honest webmasters who work your fucking asses off to provide a great experience for your members should appreciate this....but if you don't -

[Violetta]

Congrats dean!