WARNING: DoMyPhoto.com selling underaged model sets?!? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

GuestHouse · 01-26-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Anyone can do what ever they want, as long as it's legal. It's a free country.

Stämmer nog, men vem skulle fått lämna sitt jobb samma dag som folk får kännedom om det? Inte fan vill jag att nån som försörjer sig på porr ska vara lärare för min 14-åriga dotter. Skulle skapat världens rubriker inte bara over there...

just a punk · 01-26-2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veterans Day

YAY russians

...and YAY non-Russians of course ;)

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuestHouse

I have only good to say about Mark. I don't think those models are under age. I'm pretty sure there's just a mix up with docs or dates. Most of his models look 20+ and I'm pretty sure most of them are too.

Besides, if one sold sets of 15 years old girls just like that, wouldn't that person be cought by now? Again, I think Mark is clean on this one.

Out of the records, how come a teacher is in this biz? ;) (This comment has nothing to do with this thread, just surprised me as I read it.)

thank you Quest! I hope boss of school where Logan is working will not read GFY : )

See Cig · 01-26-2005, 04:06 PM

was it non nude?

just a punk · 01-26-2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

I see it now. Sorry. I not thought Logan will show it. Because he told in this dialogue than he is teacher. Can teacher do adult business in US?

I think he can... Actually I don't know what kind of knowledge such a teacher may teach the kids... According to that I saw on CNN, even a LOT of US priests are pedos. There was a big scandal regarding such a perversion, but as far as I remember these "priests" were not even imprisoned! Hey gays, WHTF is going with the US ppl? Can anyone tell me?

swedguy · 01-26-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

Really? Do you want such teacher for your children?

Who promotes good, healthy and legal porn? Sure, no problem for me.

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Who promotes good, healthy and legal porn? Sure, no problem for me.

Because you doing same business. But I'm not sure about other parents. I'm not right?

jact · 01-26-2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

Because you doing same business. But I'm not sure about other parents. I'm not right?

That's brilliant, take the heat off yourself by trying to make him look like a bad person for being in the same industry as you are. Let's not forget the point of this thread, underaged girls, bad documentation, bad communication.

just a punk · 01-26-2005, 04:21 PM

I'd like to see the scandal ID's here.

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModelPerfect

Huh...I guess I can be sure. I received the 15 year old set on September 19, 2004... She wouldn't have turned 18 until October 20, 2004...

so, let me show screen of my account on server of Logan.

You see I sent ALL FOLDERS in Nov 2004. So, you lie, Logan!!!
I'm waiting your apologies here. Now.

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jact

That's brilliant, take the heat off yourself by trying to make him look like a bad person for being in the same industry as you are. Let's not forget the point of this thread, underaged girls, bad documentation, bad communication.

ok, sorry. But why Logan not answered here? He try to bring me troubles and I try to protect. Logan, where are you? Where wrong ID's? Not ready still?

chodadog · 01-26-2005, 04:37 PM

Someone should be posting the IDs/Passports here so we can find out the truth here. This could totally fuck this guy's business up even if it turns out the models weren't underage. Proof either way is absolutely essential at this stage.

dirtydesignz · 01-26-2005, 04:40 PM

m2mm,

I'm a parent and I'm in this business...so what? YOU are in this business and no one either posting or surfing GFY has any right to point fingers at someone else wether they are a teacher, doctor, lawyer or burger flipper. It doesn't make you a bad person unable to teach anything just because your in this business...and what's to say he isn't a college professer teaching adults? Why do you just assume that he is a pervert teaching kids?

This seems like a feeble atemp to get the fingers to stop pointing at you for selling something that is questionable.

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 04:41 PM

And look please www.modelperfect.com now. Most content is my content. Most models is my models. Why Logan use it still if I selling underaged model sets?

PatrickKing · 01-26-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

Really? Do you want such teacher for your children?

Maybe the point of your post was lost in translation but being in porn does not make a person unsuitable to be around children. A lot of us here are parrents, and fucking good parrents too.

dirtydesignz · 01-26-2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

And look please www.modelperfect.com now. Most content is my content. Most models is my models. Why Logan use it still if I selling underaged model sets?

Obviously because he checked the ids and releases of those sets and thought they were ok....he isn't questioning EVERYTHING he got from you.

dirtydesignz · 01-26-2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickKing

Maybe the point of your post was lost in translation but being in porn does not make a person unsuitable to be around children. A lot of us here are parrents, and fucking good parrents too.

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydesignz

m2mm,

I'm a parent and I'm in this business...so what? YOU are in this business and no one either posting or surfing GFY has any right to point fingers at someone else wether they are a teacher, doctor, lawyer or burger flipper. It doesn't make you a bad person unable to teach anything just because your in this business...and what's to say he isn't a college professer teaching adults? Why do you just assume that he is a pervert teaching kids?

This seems like a feeble atemp to get the fingers to stop pointing at you for selling something that is questionable.

Sorry, but I not told it. Let me remind. I was surprised when Logan showed here our confindential talk without my consent. Because Logan told he is teacher. Just my surprise.

count bling · 01-26-2005, 04:48 PM

underage?!?!?!?!?!?!?

dirtydesignz · 01-26-2005, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

Sorry, but I not told it. Let me remind. I was surprised when Logan showed here our confindential talk without my consent. Because Logan told he is teacher. Just my surprise.

Well, if you are suprized by that, imagine how suprized Logan was when he saw the model ids and releases of underage models he bought from you

swedguy · 01-26-2005, 04:51 PM

Dude, showing when a set was uploaded or not isn't really the issue here. It's if the girl was underage when the pics were taken, not uploaded.

modF · 01-26-2005, 04:55 PM

Really quick on the teacher part:

ModelPerfect.com (04:36 PM) :
I gotta go teach a class. We can continue later

I'm thinking that he isn't going to teach a bunch of kids at 4:36pm, college perhaps? At any rate, I need to speek with you on icq asap Mark.

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydesignz

Obviously because he checked the ids and releases of those sets and thought they were ok....he isn't questioning EVERYTHING he got from you.

Title of this topic: "WARNING: DoMyPhoto.com selling underaged model sets?!? "
If Logan sure about it why he use my content still? He not told "WARNING: DoMyPhoto.com selling PART underaged model sets?!?"
If Logan unsure about if WHY he open this topic?

I tell again: Logan try to avoid competitor. Via bad way. WHY you not see it???

And again: WHERE YOU, LOGAN? WHY YOU NOT ANSWER? Guys, you do him work now. I hope he will tell 'thank'. Strange forum. Only scandals here.

dirtydesignz · 01-26-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modF

Really quick on the teacher part:

ModelPerfect.com (04:36 PM) :
I gotta go teach a class. We can continue later

I'm thinking that he isn't going to teach a bunch of kids at 4:36pm, college perhaps? At any rate, I need to speek with you on icq asap Mark.

Good point.

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydesignz

Well, if you are suprized by that, imagine how suprized Logan was when he saw the model ids and releases of underage models he bought from you

Are you sure he saw it? Where Logan? Why he not show it? You trust him because he is American? It's democration?
He told domyphoto is bad and you trust him. you trust him words. WHY YOU NOT WANT TRUST to FACTS?

just a punk · 01-26-2005, 05:05 PM

m2mm: nu u tebya i angliyskiy blin. udivlyaius', kak ludi voobshe tut tebya ponimayut...

2all: sorry for the non-English remark above.

dirtydesignz · 01-26-2005, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

Are you sure he saw it? Where Logan? Why he not show it? You trust him because he is American? It's democration?
He told domyphoto is bad and you trust him. you trust him words. WHY YOU NOT WANT TRUST to FACTS?

It doesn't have anything to do with him being in America! You can't honestly believe that do you? Nope...I sat back and watched and as soon as you started in about him being a teacher, I decided to respond. At first I was simply trying to point out that being in this business has nothing to do with what ever other profession you may have.

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

m2mm: nu u tebya i angliyskiy blin. udivlyaius', kak ludi voobshe tut tebya ponimayut...

2all: sorry for the non-English remark above.

dumaesh' im eto vagno? im vagno chto ya russkii

dcortez · 01-26-2005, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModelPerfect

I don't like ratting anyone out... If anyone has any comments or suggestions, I would love to hear them.

Well, seeing as you asked...

Issues like this are very serious and, regardess of who has done what, need to be dealt with responsibly as everyone named in this complaint is guaranteed to be added to a watch list.

Do you, ModelPerfect, feel you have done enough due dilligence in investigating your concerns BEFORE airing it so publicly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pxxx

This is some deep shit. Just make sure you are completely accurate before you take it to any other level.

Exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

yes, Logan not have claims to ID's. Just to two releases (from 300 releases). So can I do two mistakes in 300 things?

No one here can really know what happened in this situation, however, to answer your question:

In 300 things (related to adult industry age legalities), you are permitted ZERO mistakes!

The US Justice Department seems more interested in 'nailing' anyone who violates even a minor technicality as evidenced by their initiatives (visa vi 2275 proposed ammendments) to binding criminal offences to clerical errors.

Under the proposed 2275 changes, you can still be charged with a criminal offence and face jail time even if all the models were of legal age at the time of production and the theme of the production was not illegal.

These are serious issues and mistakes like this cast shadows on more than just one enterprise. If the content producer is from a foreign country which may already have a questionable reputation, it does not help one's country mates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jact

You're selling content with NON-ENGLISH model releases to American clients? What a class act! You really think they're going to look at Russian model releases and say, "hey, yeah, those are perfect!"

You mean, American 'clients' are willing to purchase content and accept 'legal' paperwork they cannot understand and/or verify knowing that their personal freedom is at risk?

I think the burden is clearly upon the American 'client' to authenticate what they are relying on to keep them out of jail.

I have always advocated the use of a CREDIBLE (in North America) notary public/lawyer in the country of origin to submit a legally-binding english language authentication of ID from a foreign country along with the ID copy itself.

If this type of credibility is not available, then the country in question has much work to do to secure trade with North America.

-Dino

dirtydesignz · 01-26-2005, 05:22 PM

Doesn't this little bit of a conversation say it all? Come on

ModelPerfect.com (03:35 PM) :
Mark...One of the sets you sent...with Ella...is underaged. According
to the release and ID, she was just 17 when the set was shot.
Mark (04:13 AM) :
Hi Logan, but she have over 18 when I sent it. What problem?
ModelPerfect.com (03:31 PM) :
She wasn't over 18 when the set was shot...that's what matters.
ModelPerfect.com (03:19 PM) :

just a punk · 01-26-2005, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydesignz

Doesn't this little bit of a conversation say it all? Come on

ModelPerfect.com (03:35 PM) :
Mark...One of the sets you sent...with Ella...is underaged. According
to the release and ID, she was just 17 when the set was shot.
Mark (04:13 AM) :
Hi Logan, but she have over 18 when I sent it. What problem?
ModelPerfect.com (03:31 PM) :
She wasn't over 18 when the set was shot...that's what matters.
ModelPerfect.com (03:19 PM) :

Yeah... This one is really smells bad... Would like to hear some explanation from m2mm on "Hi Logan, but she have over 18 when I sent it. What problem?" So is she really was 17 when the pics were done?

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 05:34 PM

I see this topic is too long. Let me propose next:

1. I'm sorry, I got very upset when people was accused me of underage.
2. Logan, when you comes back, post please the names of the models and I will post IDs.
3. I don't sell underage and I want to clear this up.

Thanks for your advices, lessons and even swearing

I hope all will know who is right in short time

Antonio · 01-26-2005, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydesignz

Doesn't this little bit of a conversation say it all? Come on

ModelPerfect.com (03:35 PM) :
Mark...One of the sets you sent...with Ella...is underaged. According
to the release and ID, she was just 17 when the set was shot.
Mark (04:13 AM) :
Hi Logan, but she have over 18 when I sent it. What problem?
ModelPerfect.com (03:31 PM) :
She wasn't over 18 when the set was shot...that's what matters.
ModelPerfect.com (03:19 PM) :

Dude, this guy can't speak English for shit. I can't even understand what he's trying to say with this:

"Hi Logan, but she have over 18 when I sent it. What problem?"

Plus he said that he had NO PROBLEM showing the models' IDs. It seems to me that ModelPerfect is trying to discredit a competitor, or score a few points on a message board. Fucking classy, isn't it?

swedguy · 01-26-2005, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

2. Logan, when you comes back, post please the names of the models and I will post IDs.

They have already been posted on page 1.

FlexxAeon · 01-26-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

They have already been posted on page 1.

damnm u beat me to it...was just gonna say that

m2mm · 01-26-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

Yeah... This one is really smells bad... Would like to hear some explanation from m2mm on "Hi Logan, but she have over 18 when I sent it. What problem?" So is she really was 17 when the pics were done?

Cyber, let me ask: Can Logan to know WHEN I really shooted it? just was confused and I tried to ask Logan more. I implied 'shooted' not 'sent'. Sorry for my English again.

swedguy · 01-26-2005, 05:41 PM

To make it easy

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...1&postcount=21

ModelPerfect.com (03:35 PM) :
Mark...One of the sets you sent...with Ella...is underaged. According
to the release and ID, she was just 17 when the set was shot.

ModelPerfect.com (03:19 PM) :
Mara is underaged too...and this set is full nude. WTF?!?

ModelPerfect.com (04:03 PM) :
And just found Suz is 15...this is unacceptable

ModelPerfect.com (04:06 PM) :
Just found Saka is 17 too

pxxx · 01-26-2005, 05:42 PM

That is not right at all.

SinBucks · 01-26-2005, 05:47 PM

Yikes this one could get interesting

Antonio · 01-26-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

dumaesh' im eto vagno? im vagno chto ya russkii

m2mm, what fucking difference makes if you're Russian or Chinese. This guy's accusing you of shooting underage, and IF ALL YOUR PAPERS ARE IN ORDER don't just stand here in the corner waiting for him to come back ......
Start another thread and tell your side of the story, go to another board and do the same. Attack is the best defence.

dirtydesignz · 01-26-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio

Dude, this guy can't speak English for shit. I can't even understand what he's trying to say with this:

"Hi Logan, but she have over 18 when I sent it. What problem?"

Plus he said that he had NO PROBLEM showing the models' IDs. It seems to me that ModelPerfect is trying to discredit a competitor, or score a few points on a message board. Fucking classy, isn't it?

Your kidding right?

Antonio · 01-26-2005, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydesignz

Your kidding right?

not at all

jact · 01-26-2005, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

Cyber, let me ask: Can Logan to know WHEN I really shooted it? just was confused and I tried to ask Logan more. I implied 'shooted' not 'sent'. Sorry for my English again.

Let's see, your documentation should show WHEN you really shooted it.

Mr.Fiction · 01-26-2005, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arg

Also, while you absolutely wouldn't want them on a porn site, pictures of simple nudity of minors are not inherently illegal in the US. They could be deemed illegal depending on the context of their display (e.g. juxtaposed with pornography), or depending on the style of photos (genital closeups, sexual poses, etc.). It would certainly be a mistake for the seller to have mixed nudes of minors when marketing to adult webmasters, but nudity isn't the same thing as pornography.

This kind of post will never work on GFY. Most GFY members think the definition of a "pedo" is every person who lives in any country where the age of consent is 17 or any other age below the U.S. age of consent.

Be careful, they will turn on you next.

just a punk · 01-26-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio

Dude, this guy can't speak English for shit. I can't even understand what he's trying to say with this:
"Hi Logan, but she have over 18 when I sent it. What problem?"

Ok, here is the Russian to English translation: "Hi Logan, she was over 18 at the moment when I sold you her pics. What's the problem?"

Rep · 01-26-2005, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

Really? Do you want such teacher for your children?

rather have a pornographer teaching my children then photographing them.

ModelPerfect · 01-26-2005, 06:17 PM

Look at my last post...I clearly stated I had to leave for a few hours...that's why I haven't replied yet, Mark. I'm just stopping by to check in...I have to be somewhere for the next couple of hours again...I'll reply when I get back.

just a punk · 01-26-2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m2mm

Cyber, let me ask: Can Logan to know WHEN I really shooted it? just was confused and I tried to ask Logan more. I implied 'shooted' not 'sent'. Sorry for my English again.

I was also confused with your word "sent" instead of "shot" (not "shooted" because "shoot" is an irregular verb ;)) So let's make it clear now. How old she was at the moment of shooting? I believe she was over 18 because otherwise someone may shoot a 3-yo girl in 50'x when sell it today as MATURE model. Course I'm kidding, but actually your situation is not really funny at all.

ModelPerfect · 01-26-2005, 06:20 PM

...And for the record, there are several different kinds of teachers...I teach martial arts. You assume too much...not that there would be anything wrong with that anyway. I remember one of the biggest names in adult (a few years ago anyway) being a former guidance counselor.

Antonio · 01-26-2005, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

Ok, here is the Russian to English translation: "Hi Logan, she was over 18 at the moment when I sold you her pics. What's the problem?"

No, buddy, that's broken English to English translation. This is only what YOU think he said. Well, I think we better wait and see if he's going to post the IDs.

01-26-2005, 04:06 PM	#54
See Cig Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 515	was it non nude? __________________ See Sig

01-26-2005, 04:21 PM	#59
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,386	I'd like to see the scandal ID's here. __________________ Obey the Cowgod

01-26-2005, 04:37 PM	#62
chodadog Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 9,736	Someone should be posting the IDs/Passports here so we can find out the truth here. This could totally fuck this guy's business up even if it turns out the models weren't underage. Proof either way is absolutely essential at this stage. __________________ 26 + 6 = 1

01-26-2005, 04:40 PM	#63
dirtydesignz Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Playa de los Playas :) Posts: 1,815	m2mm, I'm a parent and I'm in this business...so what? YOU are in this business and no one either posting or surfing GFY has any right to point fingers at someone else wether they are a teacher, doctor, lawyer or burger flipper. It doesn't make you a bad person unable to teach anything just because your in this business...and what's to say he isn't a college professer teaching adults? Why do you just assume that he is a pervert teaching kids? This seems like a feeble atemp to get the fingers to stop pointing at you for selling something that is questionable. __________________ LIZZIE Last edited by dirtydesignz; 01-26-2005 at 04:41 PM..

01-26-2005, 04:41 PM	#64
m2mm Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Russia Posts: 768	And look please www.modelperfect.com now. Most content is my content. Most models is my models. Why Logan use it still if I selling underaged model sets? __________________ ICQ 268430172

01-26-2005, 04:48 PM	#69
count bling Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: J. Rueben Long-Block B Posts: 186	underage?!?!?!?!?!?!? __________________ I SELL CHEAP TRAFFIC FROM C H I N A

01-26-2005, 04:51 PM	#71
swedguy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,981	Dude, showing when a set was uploaded or not isn't really the issue here. It's if the girl was underage when the pics were taken, not uploaded.

01-26-2005, 04:55 PM	#72
modF Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,888	Really quick on the teacher part: ModelPerfect.com (04:36 PM) : I gotta go teach a class. We can continue later I'm thinking that he isn't going to teach a bunch of kids at 4:36pm, college perhaps? At any rate, I need to speek with you on icq asap Mark. __________________ I do things skype:themodF

01-26-2005, 05:05 PM	#76
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,386	m2mm: nu u tebya i angliyskiy blin. udivlyaius', kak ludi voobshe tut tebya ponimayut... 2all: sorry for the non-English remark above. __________________ Obey the Cowgod

01-26-2005, 05:22 PM	#80
dirtydesignz Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Playa de los Playas :) Posts: 1,815	Doesn't this little bit of a conversation say it all? Come on ModelPerfect.com (03:35 PM) : Mark...One of the sets you sent...with Ella...is underaged. According to the release and ID, she was just 17 when the set was shot. Mark (04:13 AM) : Hi Logan, but she have over 18 when I sent it. What problem? ModelPerfect.com (03:31 PM) : She wasn't over 18 when the set was shot...that's what matters. ModelPerfect.com (03:19 PM) : __________________ LIZZIE

01-26-2005, 05:34 PM	#82
m2mm Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Russia Posts: 768	I see this topic is too long. Let me propose next: 1. I'm sorry, I got very upset when people was accused me of underage. 2. Logan, when you comes back, post please the names of the models and I will post IDs. 3. I don't sell underage and I want to clear this up. Thanks for your advices, lessons and even swearing I hope all will know who is right in short time __________________ ICQ 268430172

01-26-2005, 05:41 PM	#87
swedguy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,981	To make it easy http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...1&postcount=21 ModelPerfect.com (03:35 PM) : Mark...One of the sets you sent...with Ella...is underaged. According to the release and ID, she was just 17 when the set was shot. ModelPerfect.com (03:19 PM) : Mara is underaged too...and this set is full nude. WTF?!? ModelPerfect.com (04:03 PM) : And just found Suz is 15...this is unacceptable ModelPerfect.com (04:06 PM) : Just found Saka is 17 too

01-26-2005, 05:42 PM	#88
pxxx First African GFY Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 12,114	That is not right at all.

01-26-2005, 05:47 PM	#89
SinBucks Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 331	Yikes this one could get interesting

01-26-2005, 06:17 PM	#97
ModelPerfect Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 2,862	Look at my last post...I clearly stated I had to leave for a few hours...that's why I haven't replied yet, Mark. I'm just stopping by to check in...I have to be somewhere for the next couple of hours again...I'll reply when I get back. __________________ Logan modelperfect [at] gmail.com http://www.modelperfect.com (Proudly hosted at www.webair.com )

01-26-2005, 06:20 PM	#99
ModelPerfect Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 2,862	...And for the record, there are several different kinds of teachers...I teach martial arts. You assume too much...not that there would be anything wrong with that anyway. I remember one of the biggest names in adult (a few years ago anyway) being a former guidance counselor. __________________ Logan modelperfect [at] gmail.com http://www.modelperfect.com (Proudly hosted at www.webair.com )