I am So Pissed at Nats and MPA3!!!! - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

TMM_John · 12-24-2004, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

I dont post for sig views PB I got more to live for

I will be working with your team shortly I feel on some things. I go over the top thats how I am its more than just attention whoring.
I mean business when I do it just to be sure I understand things about character.

Rest assured I will be in touch and hopefully in Vegas we can meet once again. If I recognise your face I am gonna laugh for cuz its always a mystery to me how shit happens when the real thing comes down.

Peace out bud.
Merry Xmas

I didn't mean you specifically when I mentioned the sig whoring/post counts. I look forward to meeting you again in Vegas and hearing your input, we'll be at booth 851.

Merry Xmas to you too, which reminds me, I have family to get back to

Intrigue · 12-24-2004, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

P.S. I've spoken with Raffi on a # of occasions and absolutely believe he's a stand up guy and would never do anything to defraud anyone.

Raffi was cool enough to answer my questions about adultlounge one time when art wasn't around, even though it was late at night and i was probably just being annoying

Nader · 12-24-2004, 08:51 PM

:love-smil

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 12-24-2004, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrigue

Raffi was cool enough to answer my questions about adultlounge one time when art wasn't around, even though it was late at night and i was probably just being annoying

Raphi asked me to do a venture with em and stupid me turned em down. He is a great guy. I will never know if I missed a shot or not, but the guy is cool no matter how ya look at it

The venture many people would have jumped on, its golden shot really but I only got a couple years left before I retire maybe less.

WWC · 12-25-2004, 01:56 AM

Wow...just got back from family christmas dinner and opening gifts...nice to see everyone here discussing about these issues and such great comments from everyone.... i have so much to reply dont even know where to start...but i do want to say that this thread may hopefully change the way webmasters look at affiliate programs...like some of you have nailed it....we affiliate programs shouldnt market ourselves for the software we use but for who we really are.....did we all forget about the more important things in this industry...the hard work we put in for the content we produce, websites we launch and the 1000's of checks we write every week for our affiliate partners to be successfull with us. I mean the hell with it....even if i use Nats, MPA3 or write my own software, i can shave any time i want to....trust me there are ways....but I WILL NEVER DO BUSINESS IS SUCH A WAY...Because of who i am and how far i have come....I will say it again, i have been in AudioText in 1989 until 1995 invented the personals which i had many affiliates in major print media such as LAReader, VillageVoice, LAWeekly, etc etc...and we generated millions of minutes per month in 900 Number telephone calls...i paid them monthly for those revenues as my affiliate partners...so i have been conducting this type of relationships for a long time and will continue to do so for many more years to come.....we are all in it together! Merry Xmas...see you all in Vegas...

WWC · 12-25-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Yeah no kidding...

Hire a team of Russains or better yet East Indians.
Thats what I thought was so arrogant about both MPA and NATS...

Don't they realise a custom solution can be created for pennies without the baggage?

One of my very good friends is Indian...known him since 1996...he has programmed one of the largest gaming sites online....he now lives in India....he is the owner of Iglobal Media....the owner of PartyPoker.com and lots of other casino sites....genius programmer...

fedfest · 12-25-2004, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultLoungeRaffi

...all these webmasters who arent smart enough, listen to these rumors and stop sending traffic to either or then they switch back and forth and so on...One day all your software companies will wake up and realize that you are shooting yourself in the leg....!

..Or maybe they will just loose trust in programs using any type of affiliate software.. After all a direct ccbill link is way easier to check for shaving/fraud than anything going through nats or mpa

Kinda ironic if that's was to be the end result of the nats/mpa war *lol*

Major (Tom) · 12-25-2004, 01:24 PM

I am very happy with nats. I know all the people running the company and they are good friends of mine. I know how serious they are about nats and its reputation. They would do nothing to compromise that. About 3 weeks ago we all went out to lunch. I had time to listen to what they had to say and pick their brains. It was a truly inspiring experience. I cant say that about too many adult companies. You have only seen the tip of the ice berg with nats. Wait till you see what's on the horizon.
However, I do see rafi's point, but I assure you thats not because John is trying to bash a competitors software. It's simply because he truly believes in his own product categorically. When someone has an emotional investment in their product, you know you will be treated right. This aint just some tax write off for them. They, as I, believe fully in this product.
I was their first customer.. I knew it would be big. Now it is. And it's getting bigger. We need to except that.
Regards,
Duke

S P A N N O W · 12-25-2004, 01:25 PM

Merry Christmas to you!

WWC · 12-25-2004, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfest

..Or maybe they will just loose trust in programs using any type of affiliate software.. After all a direct ccbill link is way easier to check for shaving/fraud than anything going through nats or mpa

Kinda ironic if that's was to be the end result of the nats/mpa war *lol*

maybe ....

Also, just using Ccbill wont give us the option of cascading....

VMAN · 12-25-2004, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultLoungeRaffi

maybe ....

Also, just using Ccbill wont give us the option of cascading....

Hey speaking of rumors, you started one on another board about epoch not allowing free trials? and that you are the only one that can, care to explain?

I am quoting you here:

"Epoch Puts an End to FREE Trials...Sooo... ....if you need some to promote we have em....I was told Epoch/Paycom is no longer accepting new FREE Trial sites....although they have still honored us to keep ours.....so if anyone is still looking for FREE trial sites to promote visit www.AdultLounge.com for a list of 10 Free Trial Sites available....

Explain this????????????????????????????????

WWC · 12-25-2004, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VMAN

Hey speaking of rumors, you started one on another board about epoch not allowing free trials? and that you are the only one that can, care to explain?

I am quoting you here:

"Epoch Puts an End to FREE Trials...Sooo... ....if you need some to promote we have em....I was told Epoch/Paycom is no longer accepting new FREE Trial sites....although they have still honored us to keep ours.....so if anyone is still looking for FREE trial sites to promote visit www.AdultLounge.com for a list of 10 Free Trial Sites available....

Explain this????????????????????????????????

Yes, Epoch themselves told me that they are not approving any more sites and assigning product codes for Free Trials....Its true...Feel free to call them directly at 888-627-3888

MikeHawk · 12-26-2004, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultLoungeRaffi

Yes, Epoch themselves told me that they are not approving any more sites and assigning product codes for Free Trials....Its true...Feel free to call them directly at 888-627-3888

Raffi, merry xmas...to you guys.....heard some of the Adult Lounge/World Wide Content crew is coming up the hill this week. We are ready for Moe....! :D

S P A N N O W · 12-26-2004, 04:47 AM

Bump

SinisterStudios · 12-26-2004, 06:51 AM

The drama on this board is just too damn funny, competition is what makes this world go round. Without competition we would have inferior products and even worse support, try to respect everyone with the same respect you want (and deserve) and you will see how much farther you can go in business and life. Business is Business and decision shouldnt be made from a few bashing threads, it should be made by taking all the facts, anylizing all the data, and making what is the best decision for your business. I love to grab a beer with potential clients/partners but i will neve make a decision based on knocking back a few with a buddy. Competion is good, but this constant bashing is getting out of hand

Tipsy · 12-26-2004, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinisterStudios

Competion is good, but this constant bashing is getting out of hand

For what it's worth there's already a lot of people who make good money, visit but don't post on boards like GFY and would think hard now before using NATS. The program may be great but the bashing, vomit inducing ass kissing and annoying drama put them off using it.

There's better ways to prmote and defend your business than the crap that's been appearing on GFY recently

wyldblyss · 12-26-2004, 07:52 AM

Neither one of the programs shave. If shaving is going on, it is with the sponsor. I don't worry about what program a sponsor uses, instead I deal with sponsors I know and trust.

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 07:59 AM

You people just never quit.

We have never based or attacked Mansion. If I posted a thread every day about "Mansion did this" "Mansion did that". Then I would be an asshole and what a few of you seem to harp on would be true. I have NEVER posted a thread like that, EVER. And I never will becuase I do not attack them. Garry came on and said I did and a few of you seem to just believe what you read. We have NEVER attacked Mansion. Saying our product is better is not attacking someone. Apparently a few of you can't comprehend that.

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 07:59 AM

Can one of you recent posters who said there is too much "bashing" show me where we "bashed" them please?

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tipsy

For what it's worth there's already a lot of people who make good money, visit but don't post on boards like GFY and would think hard now before using NATS. The program may be great but the bashing, vomit inducing ass kissing and annoying drama put them off using it.

There's better ways to prmote and defend your business than the crap that's been appearing on GFY recently

The "crap" on GFY isn't started by us, as this thread wasn't. None of these "drama" threads are. Some of you seem to not realize this. People like our product and somehow this means when that angers others we are "bashing" them.

I highly doubt we're loosing much business if any over these stupid threads (again, started by others) considering we're growing extremely fast and doing better than ever. The threads do annoy me however. But again, we NEVER start them.

fedfest · 12-26-2004, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultLoungeRaffi

maybe ....

Also, just using Ccbill wont give us the option of cascading....

Then again, looking at this from the affiliates point of view.. The programs i've promoted that went from ccbill to cascading i really haven't noticed any remarkable difference, In some cases sales have actually droped.. So in many ways i'd still prefere to easily check for fraud rather than be told i can make x% extra sales with cascading and then not be able to check if i'm shaved.

Guess in the end it does, as you said, come down to your trust to and the honesty of the program you promote..
I just prefere to have as much control along with my trust as posible *lol*

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfest

Then again, looking at this from the affiliates point of view.. The programs i've promoted that went from ccbill to cascading i really haven't noticed any remarkable difference, In some cases sales have actually droped.. So in many ways i'd still prefere to easily check for fraud rather than be told i can make x% extra sales with cascading and then not be able to check if i'm shaved.

Guess in the end it does, as you said, come down to your trust to and the honesty of the program you promote..
I just prefere to have as much control along with my trust as posible *lol*

People claim you can "easily" shave with NATS (which you can't as easily as some of them would like to think). If that were to be true then you could do so just as easily with a ccbill program. So CCBill really doesn't provide you any extra security than NATS, MPA, or any other software out there.

fedfest · 12-26-2004, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

People claim you can "easily" shave with NATS (which you can't as easily as some of them would like to think). If that were to be true then you could do so just as easily with a ccbill program. So CCBill really doesn't provide you any extra security than NATS, MPA, or any other software out there.

Hey John

One big advantage ccbill has that i don't find in these softwares though is that the 2 most important things, the join page and the stats page, are both hosted on ccbills servers..
I know this doesn't make them 100% shave proof but at least i have a chance to check.. I can check the source code on the join page if my affiliate code carries through, and i can check the stats if rebills etc. are set corect.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not on a crusade against affiliate softwares or anything of the kind, they are excelent tools for making us all more money, but i would love to see more of the features that are put in these softwares where features made for the affiliate aswell, like showing what the rebill % are set for and some strong features to directly take precautions against shaving/cheating.. Looks like Nats is allready headed in that direction, but at lot can still be done so that i don't need to trust some guy half way around the world to be honest to some guy he has no reason other than he's own moral standarts not to shave

marketsmart · 12-26-2004, 08:55 AM

now i know why i haven't been here in 2 years......

is this industry ever going to come together and stop all the bickering and mistrust of each other.

john you have a good product from what i know of it and i have a lot of respect for C and his integrity. i had a long chat with him last week and we actually talked alot about the industry and the fact that the truth always comes out in the end. i know that there will never be any type of shaving with NATS as long as C is there. So, John, let your product do the talking. If you have a good product, people will use it even if they bashed it in the past. But, if you start alienating people or bashing competitors, you will lose people for ever. People forgive, but they never forget...

Just my two cents...... Know will someone please tell me what they are doing to keep traffic consistent?

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfest

Hey John

One big advantage ccbill has that i don't find in these softwares though is that the 2 most important things, the join page and the stats page, are both hosted on ccbills servers..
I know this doesn't make them 100% shave proof but at least i have a chance to check.. I can check the source code on the join page if my affiliate code carries through, and i can check the stats if rebills etc. are set corect.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not on a crusade against affiliate softwares or anything of the kind, they are excelent tools for making us all more money, but i would love to see more of the features that are put in these softwares where features made for the affiliate aswell, like showing what the rebill % are set for and some strong features to directly take precautions against shaving/cheating.. Looks like Nats is allready headed in that direction, but at lot can still be done so that i don't need to trust some guy half way around the world to be honest to some guy he has no reason other than he's own moral standarts not to shave

Good points

We are implimenting a system into NATS that will be a URL each NATS program will have that will show the details of each and every program they have. Meaning the click rates for per click programs, revshare rates for revshare programs, etc. It will also show all other details about the program. This will be a standard URL for NATS installs and not editable by the affiliate programs themselves.

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

now i know why i haven't been here in 2 years......

is this industry ever going to come together and stop all the bickering and mistrust of each other.

john you have a good product from what i know of it and i have a lot of respect for C and his integrity. i had a long chat with him last week and we actually talked alot about the industry and the fact that the truth always comes out in the end. i know that there will never be any type of shaving with NATS as long as C is there. So, John, let your product do the talking. If you have a good product, people will use it even if they bashed it in the past. But, if you start alienating people or bashing competitors, you will lose people for ever. People forgive, but they never forget...

Just my two cents...... Know will someone please tell me what they are doing to keep traffic consistent?

I'll pose the same question to you. Show me where I bashed a competitor?

Just becuase someone on GFY says something doesn't mean it's true. If everything posted on this board were fact we'd live in a very strange world.

marketsmart · 12-26-2004, 09:13 AM

i was suggesting, why even go back and forth prolonging an exchange of words when you are not going to hange your stance today and others are not going to change theirs. i know you have a lot of passion for your product and that is good, but don't let passion turn into emotion because it's a waste of time. Again, let your product do the talking for you.

i'm down to a penny so i am going to have to owe you the other one

Nathan · 12-26-2004, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i was suggesting, why even go back and forth prolonging an exchange of words when you are not going to hange your stance today and others are not going to change theirs. i know you have a lot of passion for your product and that is good, but don't let passion turn into emotion because it's a waste of time. Again, let your product do the talking for you.

i'm down to a penny so i am going to have to owe you the other one

We simply do not let others badmouth us. And we do not need others coming to us and claiming we would bash someone. We do not. We never have and never will. If anyone wants to show me or John otherwise, simply post a link here where we do bash someone.

You claimed we bash, so show us, or admit that you were wrong and we never actually did bash anyone.

The reason why we go back and forth here is because others keep saying stuff about us which is simply not true. You want us to just sit here and listen and not care?

We love our product, we are proud of our product, and we will defend it any time we have to.

marketsmart · 12-26-2004, 09:40 AM

bashing, being aggresive, who gives a shit. the point is that it doesn't accomplish anything. i would defend your product more agressively than either one of you if needed. honesty amd integrity is held very close to my heart and i know that C would never compromise his ethics over the almighty dollar, so just drop it and READ what i wrote without getting so defensive. i am sharing some insight based on my experience, thats it. i am not asking you to agree with me. if you go back to the first post i made and truly read it, you would realize that i am on your side, but if you are going to continue to drag this out, how eager do you think i will be to support you guys in the future? (that of course does not include C because of the respect i have for him)

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

bashing, being aggresive, who gives a shit. the point is that it doesn't accomplish anything. i would defend your product more agressively than either one of you if needed. honesty amd integrity is held very close to my heart and i know that C would never compromise his ethics over the almighty dollar, so just drop it and READ what i wrote without getting so defensive. i am sharing some insight based on my experience, thats it. i am not asking you to agree with me. if you go back to the first post i made and truly read it, you would realize that i am on your side, but if you are going to continue to drag this out, how eager do you think i will be to support you guys in the future? (that of course does not include C because of the respect i have for him)

First, you can say Charlie, we don't have any "secrets" or "code" around here. We don't hide anything.

Second, you're missing the point. When someone accuses us of doing things we have not done we are going to defend ourselves. We're not going to sit back and let people spread false things and make wrongful accusations. Unforunately around this place people love to do that.

Third, you're an anonymous poster. If you have something to say, let us know who you are. Don't come in here acting "holier-than-thou" and not have the honesty to say who you are.

Fourth, I got your point, and you're right, arguing with idiots over and over again IS a waste of time. However, I'm not going to not stand up for myself and my coimpany when people who have nothing better to do than post on GFY feel that we are they way they need to get attention this week.

Fifth, and again, this thread was NOT started by us. When someone brings us into something we're going to take part in it. Thats a good thing, not a bad thing (for us and everyone else involved).

This is my last post to you until you decide you want to let us know who you are and stop trying to talk in code.

fedfest · 12-26-2004, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

Good points

We are implimenting a system into NATS that will be a URL each NATS program will have that will show the details of each and every program they have. Meaning the click rates for per click programs, revshare rates for revshare programs, etc. It will also show all other details about the program. This will be a standard URL for NATS installs and not editable by the affiliate programs themselves.

This will indeed be very interesting to see, as i said it looks like Nats is headed in the right direction, this seems to underline that statement

Heck, one day i might even start trusting my sponsors again if you keep this up,*lol*

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfest

This will indeed be very interesting to see, as i said it looks like Nats is headed in the right direction, this seems to underline that statement

Heck, one day i might even start trusting my sponsors again if you keep this up,*lol*

Thank you, I truely appreciate that.

We're trying to be the good guys here and do the right thing. We seem to be getting some flack for it from some people. I can't understand why that's the case. This industry is going to change one way or another. If we can help it change even a bit for the good then we've done our job. We'll never be perfect but we can try as hard as we can to get as close to perfect as we can.

marketsmart · 12-26-2004, 10:12 AM

there is no holier than thou attitude. i posted because i know that when things start getting emotional, it only escalates. no good ever comes from that. is it your nature to look at everything as negative? i stated, i am not askiung you to agree with what i said, but at least digest it before getting aggressive. i never said you were wrong in defending your company, but there is a difference between defending your company and getting agressive and taking it personally. as far as charlie goes, i dont ever post someones name unless its listed. as far as who i am, i would be more than happy to share that off line. i have been around adult for 5 or 6 years and i am smart enough to not get caught up in all this bullshit which is why i left in the first place. if i where in your shoes i would be a little more cautious about getting agressive with someone i dont know. if someone takes time to give you some advice whether you agree with it or not, do you think they are trying to help you or hurt you. i never put you down in any of my posts and i never got agressive. so what do you think you gained by being agressive with my? if anything, i am dissapointed by the way you handled the whole situation. now maybe you will realize that i was only trying to help.

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

there is no holier than thou attitude. i posted because i know that when things start getting emotional, it only escalates. no good ever comes from that. is it your nature to look at everything as negative? i stated, i am not askiung you to agree with what i said, but at least digest it before getting aggressive. i never said you were wrong in defending your company, but there is a difference between defending your company and getting agressive and taking it personally. as far as charlie goes, i dont ever post someones name unless its listed. as far as who i am, i would be more than happy to share that off line. i have been around adult for 5 or 6 years and i am smart enough to not get caught up in all this bullshit which is why i left in the first place. if i where in your shoes i would be a little more cautious about getting agressive with someone i dont know. if someone takes time to give you some advice whether you agree with it or not, do you think they are trying to help you or hurt you. i never put you down in any of my posts and i never got agressive. so what do you think you gained by being agressive with my? if anything, i am dissapointed by the way you handled the whole situation. now maybe you will realize that i was only trying to help.

I'm not getting agressive with you. You came on with no posts under an anonymous name and accused me of bashing people. I asked you to state where I have done this. I'm not getting agreesive with you. You're the one who came on here accusing me. I understand you are trying to help, I can see that much, and thank you for it. However by doing what the others are doing you are just perpetuating the problem also.

As far as who you are, please call me, 732-792-0274 (thats a home office #) or post your # if you'd like me to reach you. Charlie would like to speak with you also.

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

As far as who you are, please call me, 732-792-0274 (thats a home office #) or post your # if you'd like me to reach you. Charlie would like to speak with you also.

We're still waiting.

Intrigue · 12-26-2004, 11:27 AM

wow i'm kinda suprised this thread is still goin, lol

TMM_John · 12-26-2004, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

We're still waiting.

And still waiting

RogerV · 12-26-2004, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Word of advice to program owners.

Brand yourself not the scripts.

everything we have is built inhouse and is solid.

does anyone know about riverstix? they are used by tons of programs and only promoted thru word of mouth by programs

So whats the dirt on both softwares

RogerV · 12-26-2004, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultLoungeRaffi

Yes, Epoch themselves told me that they are not approving any more sites and assigning product codes for Free Trials....Its true...Feel free to call them directly at 888-627-3888

We also have free trials :costumed-

Intrigue · 12-26-2004, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

And still waiting

gave up eh?

WWC · 12-26-2004, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHawk

Raffi, merry xmas...to you guys.....heard some of the Adult Lounge/World Wide Content crew is coming up the hill this week. We are ready for Moe....! :D

Yes, i wont but Moe will be there ! damn...have fun sking :-) your going to like what we got you....you guys are great people!

WWC · 12-26-2004, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfest

Guess in the end it does, as you said, come down to your trust to and the honesty of the program you promote..
I just prefere to have as much control along with my trust as posible *lol*

exactly.....thank you

Art Del Gado · 12-27-2004, 04:59 PM

I think both companies are great! " just need to get the way their marketing strategies are....

12-25-2004, 01:56 AM	#105
WWC #1 Adult Content Provider Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Glendale, Ca Posts: 11,577	Wow...just got back from family christmas dinner and opening gifts...nice to see everyone here discussing about these issues and such great comments from everyone.... i have so much to reply dont even know where to start...but i do want to say that this thread may hopefully change the way webmasters look at affiliate programs...like some of you have nailed it....we affiliate programs shouldnt market ourselves for the software we use but for who we really are.....did we all forget about the more important things in this industry...the hard work we put in for the content we produce, websites we launch and the 1000's of checks we write every week for our affiliate partners to be successfull with us. I mean the hell with it....even if i use Nats, MPA3 or write my own software, i can shave any time i want to....trust me there are ways....but I WILL NEVER DO BUSINESS IS SUCH A WAY...Because of who i am and how far i have come....I will say it again, i have been in AudioText in 1989 until 1995 invented the personals which i had many affiliates in major print media such as LAReader, VillageVoice, LAWeekly, etc etc...and we generated millions of minutes per month in 900 Number telephone calls...i paid them monthly for those revenues as my affiliate partners...so i have been conducting this type of relationships for a long time and will continue to do so for many more years to come.....we are all in it together! Merry Xmas...see you all in Vegas... __________________ [email protected] ICQ : 494-353-230 Follow WWC on Twitter CLICK HERE! " CONTENT PROVIDER OF THE YEAR! " ~ 2007 , 2008 & 2009 XBIZ AWARDS WINNER! .......www.WorldWideContent.com / www.WorldWideFeeds.com...... WWC Nominated " Content Licensor of The Year " 2010 XBiz Awards !!!

12-25-2004, 01:24 PM	#108
Major (Tom) White Pride Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Null Posts: 30,849	I am very happy with nats. I know all the people running the company and they are good friends of mine. I know how serious they are about nats and its reputation. They would do nothing to compromise that. About 3 weeks ago we all went out to lunch. I had time to listen to what they had to say and pick their brains. It was a truly inspiring experience. I cant say that about too many adult companies. You have only seen the tip of the ice berg with nats. Wait till you see what's on the horizon. However, I do see rafi's point, but I assure you thats not because John is trying to bash a competitors software. It's simply because he truly believes in his own product categorically. When someone has an emotional investment in their product, you know you will be treated right. This aint just some tax write off for them. They, as I, believe fully in this product. I was their first customer.. I knew it would be big. Now it is. And it's getting bigger. We need to except that. Regards, Duke __________________ WHITE LIVES MATTER

12-25-2004, 01:25 PM	#109
S P A N N O W Everywhere You Wanna Be! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NorCal Posts: 11,941	Merry Christmas to you! __________________ Ambush

12-26-2004, 04:47 AM	#114
S P A N N O W Everywhere You Wanna Be! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NorCal Posts: 11,941	Bump __________________ Ambush

12-26-2004, 06:51 AM	#115
SinisterStudios Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Joisey Posts: 3,087	The drama on this board is just too damn funny, competition is what makes this world go round. Without competition we would have inferior products and even worse support, try to respect everyone with the same respect you want (and deserve) and you will see how much farther you can go in business and life. Business is Business and decision shouldnt be made from a few bashing threads, it should be made by taking all the facts, anylizing all the data, and making what is the best decision for your business. I love to grab a beer with potential clients/partners but i will neve make a decision based on knocking back a few with a buddy. Competion is good, but this constant bashing is getting out of hand __________________ SEOIP.com Multiple IP Webhosting Shared and Dedicated IP's - Multiple Class A's - From $1.99/ip

12-24-2004, 08:51 PM	#103
Nader Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 5,086	:love-smil

12-26-2004, 07:52 AM	#117
wyldblyss Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Buck Starts Here Posts: 5,779	Neither one of the programs shave. If shaving is going on, it is with the sponsor. I don't worry about what program a sponsor uses, instead I deal with sponsors I know and trust.

12-26-2004, 07:59 AM	#118
TMM_John Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 6,664	You people just never quit. We have never based or attacked Mansion. If I posted a thread every day about "Mansion did this" "Mansion did that". Then I would be an asshole and what a few of you seem to harp on would be true. I have NEVER posted a thread like that, EVER. And I never will becuase I do not attack them. Garry came on and said I did and a few of you seem to just believe what you read. We have NEVER attacked Mansion. Saying our product is better is not attacking someone. Apparently a few of you can't comprehend that. __________________ Too Much Media - Makers of the Industry's Leading Payite Management Platform, NATS!

12-26-2004, 07:59 AM	#119
TMM_John Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 6,664	Can one of you recent posters who said there is too much "bashing" show me where we "bashed" them please? __________________ Too Much Media - Makers of the Industry's Leading Payite Management Platform, NATS!

12-26-2004, 08:55 AM	#124
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	john john john now i know why i haven't been here in 2 years...... is this industry ever going to come together and stop all the bickering and mistrust of each other. john you have a good product from what i know of it and i have a lot of respect for C and his integrity. i had a long chat with him last week and we actually talked alot about the industry and the fact that the truth always comes out in the end. i know that there will never be any type of shaving with NATS as long as C is there. So, John, let your product do the talking. If you have a good product, people will use it even if they bashed it in the past. But, if you start alienating people or bashing competitors, you will lose people for ever. People forgive, but they never forget... Just my two cents...... Know will someone please tell me what they are doing to keep traffic consistent?

12-26-2004, 09:13 AM	#127
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	you missed the point i was suggesting, why even go back and forth prolonging an exchange of words when you are not going to hange your stance today and others are not going to change theirs. i know you have a lot of passion for your product and that is good, but don't let passion turn into emotion because it's a waste of time. Again, let your product do the talking for you. i'm down to a penny so i am going to have to owe you the other one

12-26-2004, 09:40 AM	#129
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	you are still missing the point bashing, being aggresive, who gives a shit. the point is that it doesn't accomplish anything. i would defend your product more agressively than either one of you if needed. honesty amd integrity is held very close to my heart and i know that C would never compromise his ethics over the almighty dollar, so just drop it and READ what i wrote without getting so defensive. i am sharing some insight based on my experience, thats it. i am not asking you to agree with me. if you go back to the first post i made and truly read it, you would realize that i am on your side, but if you are going to continue to drag this out, how eager do you think i will be to support you guys in the future? (that of course does not include C because of the respect i have for him)

12-26-2004, 10:12 AM	#133
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	not quite there is no holier than thou attitude. i posted because i know that when things start getting emotional, it only escalates. no good ever comes from that. is it your nature to look at everything as negative? i stated, i am not askiung you to agree with what i said, but at least digest it before getting aggressive. i never said you were wrong in defending your company, but there is a difference between defending your company and getting agressive and taking it personally. as far as charlie goes, i dont ever post someones name unless its listed. as far as who i am, i would be more than happy to share that off line. i have been around adult for 5 or 6 years and i am smart enough to not get caught up in all this bullshit which is why i left in the first place. if i where in your shoes i would be a little more cautious about getting agressive with someone i dont know. if someone takes time to give you some advice whether you agree with it or not, do you think they are trying to help you or hurt you. i never put you down in any of my posts and i never got agressive. so what do you think you gained by being agressive with my? if anything, i am dissapointed by the way you handled the whole situation. now maybe you will realize that i was only trying to help.

12-26-2004, 11:27 AM	#136
Intrigue Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ohio, US Posts: 662	wow i'm kinda suprised this thread is still goin, lol

12-27-2004, 04:59 PM	#143
Art Del Gado Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 960	I think both companies are great! " just need to get the way their marketing strategies are.... __________________ Art Del Gado ICQ: 616143