I am So Pissed at Nats and MPA3!!!!
 

Think about it.....You guys spread rumors about eachothers software programs to webmasters just to gain the business from affiliates to switch over to your software and are not realizing the cause to it. It hurts the business of YOUR clients, us the affiliate program who use your software!!! Nats talks shit about MPA3 software and then MPA3 talks shit about NATS software and guess what happens...all these webmasters who arent smart enough, listen to these rumors and stop sending traffic to either or then they switch back and forth and so on...One day all your software companies will wake up and realize that you are shooting yourself in the leg....affiliate programs can, have and some eventaully will write their own software and not use ANY of you 3rd party companies...BE CAREFULL with your business tactics!!! IT IS ALL BS PEOPLE....It doesnt matter what software an affiliate program uses .....TRUST IN THE PERSON WHO OWNS THE AFFILIATE PROGRAM....NOT WHAT SOFTWARE THEY USE!!!!

I recently discovered a way on how affiliate software which has cascading ( both NATS AND MPA3 have it ) can not show any of the cascading sales...I MADE SURE 100% that our software shows this to our affiliate partners.... I WILL NOT ALLOW THESE TYPES OF AMATEUR SCUMBAG TACTICS IN MY COMPANY!!! I have owned many companies since 1989 and NEVER, I MEAN NEVER HAVE HEARD SUCH A WAY OF DOING BUSINESS UNTIL I FIRST HEARD THIS FUCKEN BS WORD "SHAVING".

If you went into business with a " Partner " and are 50/50, would you ever fuck your partner???? NOOOOOO And that how i see my affiliate partners to AdultLounge.com....and those of you who know me believe what i say and those of you who dont know me....come by the AdultLounge.com Booth # 446... I WANT TO MEET YOU!!!

Merry Christmas Partner!!!

merry christmas too you 2,,, CALM DOWN BRO!!!

i know scammers suck big dick

Cliff notes?

Exactly what "rumors" have we spread about MPA? I've never made a false statement or spread a rumor and I stand by everything we say. Please don't make accusations up about us becuase you're angry about something.

Also, which software are you using?

Agreed!
If you ask around, many have already been brainwashed and conditioned to believe the only way not to get shaved is to use one of the two.
But when it all boils down, it's all good business (for them anyway). Programs have caved in and switched over, just to please their webmasters.

Whatever works ... I guess. :karaoke

No one has come to us becuase they "caved and moved to please their webmasters". NATS is a very very flexible, scaleable, reliable software. People use it for many reasons, one of the biggest is because of what it can do and how it can help a program squeeze more $ out of each and every surfer and run their business better & the way they want.

Rumors, false info, fact, etc.. None of it maters my friend, it's about a professional mannerism.

Let the webmasters choose a company based off of the sites and features, not the software they use.

If something is truly good, people will tell others. If it sucks, people will tell others. Let the natural marketing happen :)

this biz because of its nature, people not in contact personally other than once or twice a year in a drunken haze has a bigger number of scumbags than most and 'shaving' is just one stunt - 'shaving' to most who have been in the biz awhile is an accepted practice, we ASSUME anybody paying per signup is shaving, one way or the other. it's just a fact of the biz. when somebody like PIBCash gets caught redhanded shaving, MPA gets caught marketing a shave module, nobody with a brain is surprised by it, what we're surprised by is somebody was stupid enough to get caught.

BUT if you are saying you've been running businesses since 1989 and you've never heard or seen things like 'shaving' you are being disingenuous or haven't been in business cuz every business I've worked for or had any ownership in there has been some 'shenanigans' by somebody - ESPECIALLY where PARTNERS are concerned. I supervised movie theater managers for years, i could count on my finger the number of honest ones who worked under me, caught all the rest stealing from the company, same thing for those teenage kids who take your tickets, who'd work out a scam with the cashier, and on and on. Worked in retail, same thing with the staff stealing/selling merchandise out the back door, managers doing the same. Easily one of every two people you meet are scum to some extent.

The software shouldn't play a 100% role, but it shouldn't play a 0% role either.

I do agree that the public bickering and one upmanship going on between Mansion and NATS is not good for either of their customers, i'm sensing the backlash.

i think its cheaper for you guys in the long run to dump all these programs, and have one custom made by your programmers... save you time, loss of webmasters, and money ..

merry xmas :xmas-smil

So now Raffi you know why I side stepped your offer.

Its to much of a gamble.
I was unable to determine and still unable to determine the viability of long term thinking in this biz. I know it gets harder and harder as a career guy in this industry.

Your a straight shooter and very few hold that in my mind.

See ya in Vegas I hope!

It's this industry that takes it as bickering.

If you go into a Chevy dealership and ask about Ford, they're going to tell you how the Chevy is better. And vice-versa. When someone asks me why my product is better, I'm going to tell them. We're in competition, so absolutely there is going to be one upmanship. I do not bash Oystein, Garry, or the Mansion team on a personal level. I do not make things up about their company. When I'm asked about the differences between us, I state the faces. This is business and it will be the way we continue to do things.

Garry felt us stating how we are different than them was "bashing" them and he felt the need to come here and make a long post in 4 threads about it. Ever since then a few people have interpreted things between us as "fighting", "bashing", etc. I have nothing personal against the people at Mansion. It's not my intention to start "battles" with them. Business is business tho and I will, when asked, point out how our product is different and/or better.

most people can't afford that - you're talking about 50 grand minimum and the headaches of development of software that sophisticated.

Just the opposite in fact. I've talked to a # of people in this business who have invested $200k-$500k or more in affiliate softare. In the end that affiliate software has the input of ONE company and once the programmers are done it becomes a "patch it as we go" situation.

You can purchase NATS with feedback and features from dozens and doznes of companies & program owners, a solid support staff, and on-going development (staying with the times & trends of the industry) for $12,500. Thats a far cry from the 6 figures many spend on custom solutions.

In the end writting your own will cost more and almost always do less. Are there companies in this industry who have state-of-the-art custom affiliate software? Of course, but they're paying far more than I even quoted in my first paragraph. Plus they have the headaches of managing a team of programmers. There are benefits and drawbacks to doing both. IMO the drawbacks of creating a custom system far outweight the beneifts. We wouldn't be here doing what we're doing if I felt differently.

Fact of the matter is... mpa2 had a shaving feature, every other affiliate software did as well, and got nailed on it... hard. mpa3 is having a battle overcoming the reprecutions from that.

NATS and mpa3 are now both rather well known for not having the shaving feature anymore. And a lot of people talk about it and some preffer one over the other.... but they've both just been doing business.

That's what it all boils down to... they both promote their own software. It's what a company does. How do you sell your software without any promotion of it?

As far as I can tell, this is GFY... and people very quickly jump to assumptions and accusations. And I have seen many people question and speculate about both companies but not once have I ever seen mpa3 or nats ever mention the other company in any negative manner.

If they both do their marketing promotions properly, then yes... people should talk about them. People should want to promote sponsors that use them. People SHOULD know about them. That's what promoting is all about.

yes and when a Chevy dealer bashes the Ford dealer it's done in private not in front of 2,000 onlookers. You had a ton of webmasters, naive ones, who totally believed that programs using NATS were 'shave proof' - which was a great thing for you - yes many webmasters are that naive, they only associate 'shaving' with a setting in the admin of the affiliate software that says 'Shave- Yes' and 'Shave - No'. As the bickering started on GFY and probably other boards I don't read you started to get people like European Lee making the obvious point that NATS doesn't make a program shave proof.

Well said. Thank you :)

Whether they are rumors or facts about eachothers software, it shouldnt be a continous bashing on boards and confuse or make affiliates nervous about sending traffic to programs.....just getting tired of it and wanted to make assure for webmasters that ITS NOT WHICH SOFTWARE AN AFFILIATE USES ITS THE PERSON WHO OWNS IT AND RUNS IT....Thats all i want to point out in this thread.

oh and to answer your question i use both....i own more than 1 affiliate program :-)

bullshit... my guys can build one for a fraction of the cost posted.. i've heard waaaay too much shit about both softwares and all are true cuz i know people who have worked on them....

keep it on a proffessional level and stop posting BS about either one, or else i'll post the truth.. ;) so everyone can stop this nonsense . :xmas-smil

Chevy and Ford reach audiences of far more than 2000 in their advertising :)

As far as the shave thing, I've stated my standing a million times. We never came out and said it was "impossible to shave" or "shave proof" with NATS. We said we made it as hard as we knew how to screw with the numbers and that we put as many checks and balances in place for it. Now we've gone a further step in that if we ever do find a NATS program using the software in a fraudulent manner their liscense will be revoked and they will face legal action. The point we brought up in the past was that we take a stance different than a lot of the industry and some of our competition has in the past. That stance is that rather than support shaving and make it easy for the program owner to do so we have taken the opposite route of making it as hard for them to as we can and backing that up with severe consequences.

This industry is full of fly by night companies, scammers, and general scum. It should be a bright spot to see a company doing what they can to take a stand against it.

I understand your point. And you're correct, as I said an affiliates choice should not be based 100% or 0% on what software they use. My point was that you said we spread "rumors" about MPA, which we do not do. That would be entirely unprofessional. Anything and everything we say about our competition is fact.

Great that you use both, which do you prefer?

You can buy a car for $8,000 too, but it's called a Kia.

Damn who is spending 6 figures on custom solutions these days. I remember a while back there was affilate software that topbucks was using that had cost 100k

What would be the downfalls of your software?
What do others say bad about it, and what are your answers to those statements?

nah...... the type of advertising a Chevy or Ford, McDonalds or Burger King, do rarely takes on the competitor that directly, it's usually pretty gentle, like the Pepis vs Coke taste test of years ago. most of the comparisons are implied, we 'charbroil' our burgers unlike the other guys. I was talking about when you go into a dealership and you're talking to a salesman and he will put down the competitor's product and give you reasons why his product is better.

:sleep .....

If you can't figure it out, you are not his target audience.

Good point Raffi

I wish my NATS sponsor would turn off the skim in the spirit of xmas.

The only thing I often hear as a downfall is the cost. We tried to make it as low of an entry point as possible by offering the NATSlite lease which is $150/mo. Some people really feel affiliate software should cost $500 one time. They don't realize the complexity and support that go into a true solution.

Other than that I really can't think of any bad things I hear about the software itself. There are always the haters out there saying how we should "leave MPA alone", etc. Most often their are clients/friends/etc. of our competition. We have a competing product to market, one should expect us to do so. As far as the software goes tho I do not hear anything bad about it. There are a few points of the software that could use a better administration interface, but those aren't major points and have nothing to do with functionality. Other than that I really can't think of anything.

If anyone has any constructive criticism, I'd love to hear it.

There is no "skim" built into NATS. If you are referring to a particular program let me know which one and we'll be looking into it right away. I doubt you have any legitimate reason to suggest they are doing anything fraudulent as you're a drive by unknown just popping into the thread with an anonymous accusation.

Raffi's argument is a legitamate one.

How can he gain respect of webmasters when the very platform he uses is cast in doubt and bickering?

Attrition in commerce is nice but in some cases it is to extreme and the situation concerning Affiliate applications and scripts is indeed a tough call for anyone that currently runs an affiliate program.

Raphi came accross to me as a straight shooter but no one can be sure until a meeting happens and thats what sucks. It comes down to trusting who you do business with. Bottom line.

How did this become a price issue? If you don't want to pay the price, don't pay it... don't use it. no big deal. Why try to make it a public issue?

If you have no sponsor program at all, I see no reason why you should be even talking about NATS price... if someone will pay the price for their program, that's their business. Perhaps they know something you don't... like how to do business properly.

Raffi is a great guy. Unfortunately he is using software from a company that had a bad name before we even started marketing our solution. When someone does something on the level they did it sticks with a company. New product or not. It's not us who did what they did. It's not us who gave them their reputation with some affiliates. People are responsible for their own actions in life.

exactly... i keep saying keep issues like this off the boards.. keep it proffessional... icq, phone, email...

Your missing my point.

A war starts between you and MPA and look at the position ya put program owners in? I sat and watched the shit go down, I swallowed saying anything about it, I let it slide, but...
It went a little t far in my opinion. BOth MPA and NATS were not thinking about there clients and the end result of the attrition war.

No one wins dude...

Word of advice to program owners.

Brand yourself not the scripts.

Regarding the build your own vs. software package discussion. Companies like Playboy Enterprises do not go with software like NATS becuase they can not afford to write their own. They do so becuase they know they should let people who do things well do them.

http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...tent_ID=210075

Again, we're going to market our product. This is a business not a friendship or a town bar where everyone is "buddies".

Are you that sure?

I should have said that's how it "should" be. Unfortunately in this industry many people do business with people because they are "cool" or gave them a hooker for a night or whatever (not referring to anyone specific here, just a general about the industry). That is not how things should be done. That is why over the next 5 years you will see less and less of the unprofessional people and more and more business people in this industry.

wow.... that has got to be the saddest thing i've heard so far...... you do realize the number of possible clientel you just lost.. :2 cents:

Not a single one I'm sure. It's great to be friends, buddies, etc. But business should be based on the best business decision, not who bought you a beer at the last show.

Should you be friends with who you work with? Absolutely. Should you only work with your friends? Absoultely not.

you guys need some serious marketing help, and some of you just shouldn't post for the sake of the buisness... if you knew what you were doing, this thread would not exist

As far as success goes, I'll compare anytime you'd like.

We haven't built NATS up to where it is by making bad decisions.

edit: Sorry, I had just replied to you so was in the mindset that it was directed at me specifically. If it wasn't, my appologies.

Anyway, it's Christmas eve and I have family over. I'll be back to this thread in a few hours.

I love NATS, I support NATS, and I have talked to tons of webmasters that have changed over or are in the process of changing over. It has made my life easier.

NATS is software (yes some others do suck) but without NATS my sites would convert the same. I could use NATS or many other choices of software and do just as good. As you know I have my own software too, which other than I don't have to maintain NATS, it isn't and doesn't do anything different than 99.9% of the programs that don't use NATS. There are programs on the market that have more features than NATS could add in over the next 5 years. Of course they cost 20-50k.

You ?CAN? have programs built for 5k all day long. For 10k, every feature NATS has and then some. Maintenance, servers, database structure, coders, and many other reasons, make people not go with custom software. NATS is easy to use, maintained by others, and stable. That is the features that mater.

I'm strong enough in this opinion that we have been working to change the total look and every feature within Evil Genius Cash. We don't want webmasters to know we use NATS. I want webmasters to use my sites because they convert, retain, and make my webmasters money. The software has nothing to do with that and shouldn't be a factor in a webmasters choice to promote or not to promote my company.

LOL.

Welcme to porn.
Its custom to buy your buddy a whore.
Its custom to make deep decisions with a toast.
Its custom t negotiate traffic deals when the tequila bottle hits the wall.

Hey just like the Oil Industry, textiles industry, architecture industry oh hell the music industry to.

WHAT IS and what SHOULD BE are completely different realms.

merry christmas :xmas-smil :xmas-smil