Dildozer

fuck thread fucked up...

Anyway it seems nowadays when shaving is mentionned in a thread good old Captain NATS jumps to the rescue.

Granted there's no shave feature, but what if a user's in a shaving mood. Can he go around and still shave?

I'm asking because I know jack shit about programming, but can sponsors go around it? alter the code?

Or are there mechanisms in place to prevent such fraud?

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Jace

there are ways around EVERYTHING

anyone can shave if you give them enough room to do so

any software can be built to shave, and if it can't people will find out how to do it without using the software

fuck, who the fuck cares as long as you have matching counts and you are making money?

polish_aristocrat

If you use NATS it is impossible to shave. Period.

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Dildozer

I care

Shaving is fraud

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naitirps

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Explicit

do you know much about nats? i mean, it seams like an awful lot of work to write a program to allow yourself to shave. It also sounds like a good way to get your ass busted doing such fradulent acts... just a thought.

Jace

oh, don't point fingers at me...i am totally against it all...my point is just that if someone wants something bad enough, they will do it

Veterans Day

ya thats stopped programs before

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TheMob

that is so so true hehe

Jace

and there are programs out there that have been caught red handed shaving...where were they busted at? who arrested them, or fined them? no one....

until the adult industry gets some balls and decides to report some of these companies and follow through with lawsuits, then companies will continue to rip people off and there will always be TONS of scammers

xclusive

It's a fact when it comes to the ones and zeros you can find a way to get around any software...

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Explicit

I agree with you 100%, not pointing any fingers, just suporting nats and those companies that do what they can to not shave. no one likes to get ripped off like that.

Explicit

yeah but why? a good buisness reputation dosn't spring up over night, its earned through years of trustworthy services.

good rep = steady customers = steady money = expansion

the best way is the hard way

TheDoc

First off NATS (the software) is Zend Encoded, so nobody can modify the scripts to add in a shave feature. The way the member data is handled if you remove or delete a record then parts of NATS would quit working. Hence, not being able to shave.

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psyko514

Obviously, no program can be 100% shave proof. But from I've heard, NATS is as close as it gets.

This is a quote from Nathan who wrote NATS:

"NATS does not shave. Sounds simple enough right? This does not just mean NATS has no internal option for shaving. It means that quite simply, NATS does not shave. We have built many checks & balances into the software to make sure of just that. If a signup occured, we WILL find it and WILL display it in stats. Same for rebills, credits and chargebacks of course. We also use multiple internal ways of tracking the affiliate code, making sure that we do not miss one.

On top of all that, if people DO find a way to shave with NATS (which noone yet even tried btw), and they will not stop doing it after we find out, we will terminate their license. We are very clear about this everywhere. NATS does not shave."

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slapass

There is a different board that discussed all the ways to legally shave. It was real eye opener. Do you get pauid for checks? aol traffic? dialer? pop ups? email collection boxes? foreign traffic? The list is endless. And those are ones we have to accept sort of upfront so the ones that just slide in code are really f ing us.

Far-L

We are not afraid of law suits. Our tribulations in this regard are a matter of public record.

I agree with you. Just because someone is using NATS does not make them honest.

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SmokeyTheBear

any sponsor can redirect rotating ip blocks and shave , regardless of if they use nats or any other software.

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TheFrog

isnt it encrypted, so they cant modify

WiredGuy

Exactly. If someone is determined enough to shave, it can be done at various different levels of which the easiest is through web server redirects. Doesn't take much to tinker a bit with apache by specific IP blocks to do such a thing.

WG

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Steen2

read Smokey's post.

There are less conventional more creative ways to "shave".

Personally, I think some are fine and quite smart.

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psyko514

this is from another thread:

"How about I cronjob firewalling out the primary billers IP range from the sales postback 6 minutes every hour? 10% shave and nothing you can do against it."

and NATS' answer was:

"First of all, none of those mmebers would get access to your members area in case you use NATS for member management, and in 99% of the case this will be the case and it would be difficult to NOT use NATS for member management.

On top of that, we double check if initial sales got entered into the system and if we see they got missed by problems with the postback from the biller we add them later.

Also, for iBill, this would cause more than just initial sales do get dropped fully, you would also start missing cancels, credits, chargebacks and rebill posts. Of course you do not care about rebill posts, but I am sure you care about the others.

Now you will come and argue "oh well, I will just block the biller ip also when you request the information for doublchecking if its there". Sure you could, but in that case again you would (a) start missing credits, chargebacks and cancels also, which you really do not want, and (b) in case of epoch this does not work at all, out of various reasons.

On top of all the above, of course you YOURSELF would be missing the sale info also, giving you all wrong admin reports inside NATS making it harder for you to even figure out if you are really making any money or not."

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Fukeneh

there are many many ways to shave.

and shaving around nats is indeed very possible.

Major (Tom)

No One yet has found a way to shave. And with all the competition out there, there are tons of people trying to find a way to knock nats off its pedistol of honesty. But that hasnt happened yet. And since it hasnt, thats demonstrable proof for any affiliate who has questions about wheather you can shave or not with nats

Duke

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Manowar

its the sponsors themselves that should be blamed if they want to shave with NATS, because they have to go out of their way to find methods unlike some other programs