Dirty F

100 upset Americans.

maxjohan

I really admire US for the multi cultures you have. I think that is something europe lack.

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kenny

USA is always in the spot light no matter what.

Got to give us that

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BRISK

Europe lacks cultures? WTF? I think not.

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Dead13

WOW! Do you ever have a screwed up sense of things. Please enlighten us Americans with more of your knowledge of American history.

Roald

I love these posts

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Joe Citizen

"The Pilgrims, who celebrated the first thanksgiving in America, were fleeing religious prosecution in their native England. In 1609 a group of Pilgrims left England for the religious freedom in Holland where they lived and prospered. After a few years their children were speaking Dutch and had become attached to the dutch way of life. This worried the Pilgrims. They considered the Dutch frivolous and their ideas a threat to their children's education and morality."

Sounds like it to me.

Dead13

Did anybody posting actually bother to read the article?

Some interesting facts from it, the U.S. ranked second in GDP.

Sure the U.S. ranked 13th overall, but France took 25th, Germany 26th, and the U.K. 29th (the last out of all EU nations) right ahead of South Korea.

But nobody posted a thread about how much the U.K., France, and Germany apparantly suck?

Joe Citizen

The point is that there is no "best country in the world", so you Americans should shut your great arrogant pieholes about it.

Then maybe people will like you more.

Just a thought.

Dead13

Yet again, false. Not even close to the actual account of political history, more closley related to what they teach 1st graders who are unable to understand such complexities.

Why don't you actually learn about REAL American history before you try slamming it, you may look half-assed educated.

Sly

Uh, what?

The pilgrims moved here largely to escape religious prosecution from the King, they believed in different things than he. I believe they were Protestants.

You haven't ever wondered why God was mentioned so much in older laws?

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Dead13

Maybe US Americans think it is the best country in the world for US, and we don't give a flying fuck what a bunch of others people in other countires think about it.

Ever thought of that?

Joe Citizen

When did I 'slam' American history?

If you have a different version why don't you tell us all about it.

We're waiting.

Dead13

There were many people who came to America, for many different reasons, not one time did anyone ever call American's the "holy ones."

Go back and reread his post, he is wrong 100%.

and I happen to have right in front of me a copy of the United States Constitution, and the Decleration of Independence. Care to guess how many times the word God is found?

Joe Citizen

Yeah, and billions of people from other countries in the world feel the same way about their country.

Only they don't need to be arrogant and obnoxious about it.

Paul

Bahahahahahahahahaha !!! Ireland, best country to live in Thats some funny shit

kenny

They can only bust a nut when it's something negative about the USA.

China is putting people in prison for life for internet porn and there may have been three threads about it.

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Dead13

The first sentence I agree with 100%, the second is a joke.

Dirty F

Do you hear Germany and France bragging about their freedom and being the best country in the world constantly like a lot of Americans do? You skipped that point. I would point them out as well if that was the case.

CET

Huh? Not having freedom is freedom? Is this a spin off of the orwellian phrases:

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

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Joe Citizen

Freedom from gun violence is also a freedom.

CET

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kenny
Ok, so you view it as a trade off..

Kind of the same concept as the patriot act here in the USA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure it is, both are a trade off of freedom for security, or at least the illusion of security.

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CET

I suspect maxjohan left out the [sarcasm] tags.

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Joe Citizen

It's not the illusion of security. We have virtually zero gun violence.

CET

The king at the time, Charles, was protestant. The puritans were calvinists. They were too uptight to live in England without being picked on and harassed.

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CET

The Declaration mentions "nature's god".

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CET

In that case, freedom from terrorism is also a freedom.

Sorry, but outlawing guns makes about as much sense as the PATRIOT Act. Both curtail freedom while doing little at best to curtail terrorism and violence.

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Joe Citizen

Yeah, I guess freedom from terrorism is a freedom.

If you have so much freedom that your society is riddled with crime and violence, how much freedom do you really have?

The freedom to walk the streets safely at night is also a freedom.

CET

True, but has non-gun related violence gone up to compensate? I tried finding said stats on Australia's government website concerning crime and the only violene stats and studies I could find were all gun related. There wasn't a single study amongst the hundreds of studies that talked about non-gun related violence. They had studies about gun violence against women, gun violence against taxi cab drivers, gun violence against crossing guards, but not a single study about non-gun violence. Do you think there's a good reason for that which is not politically motivated?

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CET

If access to guns made for violent nations, then why isn't Switzerland the most violent nation in the world? I've not seen any evidence to show that has anything to do with firearms laws, but rather cultural attitudes. Unfortunately, ours is a nation which markets fear. Our government controls us with fear, corporations sell us products based on fear. I actually saw a commercial for bug repellent the other day where the spokesman kept changing the timber of his voice whenever he mentioned "the west nile virus".

We're taught and trained to be afraid of everything. We're also taught to hate everything. We have an entire generation of black people who instead of using the vast opportunities they have to get ahead, sit around and listen to self-degrading music, while blaming everyone else for their woes. As a white male veteran, I have a small handful of scholarships available to me. There is high competition for those few scholarships. Black men have so many scholarships available that it's unreal. Many of those are not given because of a lack of applicants. If I were black, my college education would have been easily paid for, but instead I have to pay for it myself.

I think that has inifnitely more to do with violence in a society then gun laws.

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Joe Citizen

Just out of interest, do you actually know what the gun laws are here?

Or are you simply working from the assuption that "All guns are banned in Australia"?

CET

Why don't you enlighten me?

Further, how does this answer my post? It sounds like a red herring to me.

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Joe Citizen

I'm sorry you can't find the studies that you are looking for but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I'm going to bow out here because nobody's mind is going to be changed on this topic and I'm not in the mood for a drawn out five page thread today.

I DO know that I'd never want to exchange the freedom from gun violence that I enjoy for an American style gun culture where people feel as though they need a firearm for personal protection.

As a great supporter of freedom I certainly hope you are in favour of the freedom to cultivate marijuana and the freedom to manufacture methamphetamine... or is there no limit to you concept of freedom?

CET

Another red herring. OK, I'll bite just because it's fun.

I see no reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to grow cannabis. I've been a proponent for its legalization for nearly half my life now. My government wastes FAR too much money prosecuting their "war on drugs" and only turns our neighborhoods into near war zones whenever the government decides to make a bust.

I see no reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to manufacture meth if they want to. However, if it were legal, it would be much like coffee, cheap, clean and predictable. With that in mind I don't see why anyone would want to manufacture it. Of course, there those who brew their own beer.

My general rule of thumb is this: more freedom = better. This doesn't ALWAYS hold, that's why it's a general rule of thumb. Anything that infringes on anyone else's life, liberty or property is not OK.

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Steen2

Where is Candana?

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WarChild

The Australian government made sweeping changes to the firearms legislation in 1997. However, the total homicide rate, after having remained basically flat from 1995 to 2001, has now begun climbing again. While violent crime is decreasing in the United States, it is increasing in Australia. Over the past six years, the overall rate of violent crime in Australia has been on the rise ? for example, armed robberies have jumped 166 percent nationwide.

The confiscation and destruction of legally owned firearms has cost Australian taxpayers at least $500 million. The cost of the police services bureaucracy, including the costly infrastructure of the gun registration system, has increased by $200 million since 1997.

URL=http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=nr&id=570

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WarChild

Here are some key findings about Australian crime trends for the period of 1995 (pre-ban) to 2001 (post-ban) (5):

''The rate of assault has increased steadily from 563 victims per 100,000 people in 1995 to 779 per 100,000 people in 2001.''

''In 2001 the rate for robbery peaked at 136 per 100,000 people?the highest recorded since 1995.''

''The rate of sexual assault was 86 per 100,000 people, which is higher than any previous year.''

Here is the comparison in violent crime trends between Australia and the United States for the period

http://www.chronwatch.com/content/co...y.asp?aid=8073

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WarChild

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%.


Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%.


Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44%. (yes, FORTY-FOUR PERCENT)


In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%!


The steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms that occurred during the previous 25 years became an increase in the last 12 months.


The steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms that occurred during the previous 25 years became an increase in the last 12 months.


There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of-the-elderly.


At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm".


From 1910 to present, homicides in Australia have averaged about 1.8-per-100,000 or lower, a safe society by any standard.


The ban has destroyed Australia's standings in some international sport shooting competitions.


The membership of the Australian Sports Shooting Association has increased by 200% in response to the ban and in an attempt to organize against further controls, which are expected.


Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain why no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns". Their response has been to "wait longer".

http://www.nrawinningteam.com/auresult.html

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WarChild

Yeah you're right Joe, Australian gun ban is working wonders.

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untitled

don't diss america!!!


america - jesus land = #1

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Joe Citizen

Are you okay with people being able to own bazookas and surface to air missles?

How about access to unlimited quantities of high explosives?

You can call these red herrings if you like but I'm just interested in your concept of freedom.

Joe Citizen

Some of your statistics are misleading. This one in particular: http://www.nrawinningteam.com/auresult.html

See the rebuttal here: http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

Nobody ever said that gun control would end violence but it has done what it was supposed to do and that was to reduce gun crime. And that is what it has done.

Nobody in Australia lives in fear of gun violence.

I don't fear a fist as much as I would fear someone pulling out a handgun.

jukeboxfrank

Funny there is a law against murder already. Do you think someone that would kill you would let a little law about gun ownership stop him or her. In a country that bans guns only
the law abiding citizens don't have guns.

pornguy

I agree that USA is not the best country to live in, which all the shit going on, but Ireland?
Did they forget about the IRA?
WTF?

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Joe Citizen

It sure is: http://www.aic.gov.au/media/2004/20040102.html

Jensen

«Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Iceland figure among the top countries on the UN index because of their high levels of education, democracy, income and public health»

hmm but our weather suck though..

jukeboxfrank

ya ,now they just stab you but hey you were not shot!!!

Meloman

Battus, why do you find the need to constantly talk about America/Americans and all it's problems?

You seem a bit obcessed with the U.S seriously.

Or are threads like this just for the sig views cause u know it'll rattle peoples cages?

Not trying to start a piss match... I'm just genuilly curious why you come to an Amercian based, dominated board and constantly want to remind Americans we aren't the best.

I mean, who really cares. I like my country, you like yours, we both have idiots that live in both...oh well that's life.

Just my

WarChild

Fire arm deaths drop but almost everything else, including rape, murder and armed robbery are going up. In some cases by an awful lot.

You're trying to make me believe you feel safer because you're less likely to be killed by a gun, but more likely to be killed period. That just doesn't make sense.

We have similar gun control in Canada. Violent crime keeps going up though.

I couldn't go buy a gun legally in Canada to defend myself or my family. If I wanted to kill someone, I could buy a gun black market in a few hours.

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Joe Citizen

Homicides are not going up, they are going down.

The articles you linked to were from someone keen to prove gun control hasn't worked in Australia when in reality it has.

This is from the same site, the Australian Institute of Criminology, not some academic with an agenda: http://www.aic.gov.au/media/2004/20040607.html