Exxxotica

I try to be fairly helpful to fellow webmasters...but only to a certain point.

Why is it that so many webmasters tell the entire adult community which sponsors of theirs are converting well?

Im converting 1:200 with ********* program.
Im converting 1:300 with ******* program.

The programs I do well with, I tend not to mention...my lips are sealed.

Please correct me if I am wrong, (which most of the time I am) but the more webmasters promoting a program, the more saturated it becomes, thus creating less signups?

Last year a friend of mine turned me on to Truecelebs...mainly promoting Britney Spears.
For about a 2 month period, I thought I had struck GOLD! 1:100 ratio, tons of signups.

Soon it appeared that everybody had heard the word, and was promoting Britney via Truecelebs. My signups decreased as my ratio's increased. Though it's still a decent program...it's no longer the Hot money maker it was.

Dialers used to kick ass. I now do in a month what I used to do in a week. I remember Boneprone explaining to me what a dialer was, and how webmasters were making tons of money with these things. I remember seeing only a few sites running dialers. Now it appears everybody is either using a dialer, or has their own dialer company.

I would like to hear some thoughts on this issue...from a webmasters perspective. I already know what the sponsors will have to say, and Im not really interested it that.

I know these boards are a great way for sponsor programs to spread. However, Is that word of mouth necessarily good for the webmaster?

Thanks

thebulldog

This a tricky one mate,


Helping newbies as it benefits, telling them that a program converts like crazy and helping them through the begiining stages can make you friends and give u benefits in future.


HOWEVER posting a message on the board JUST TO BRAG that bla bla program is doing great is cutting your own income, of course telling a few fellow top webmasters can gain you brownie points in the future but telling the ENTIRE ADULT WEBMASTERS is wrong, totally in my oppinion, but im a dog?!??!

anyone part of the fun is sniffing out those great programs and boy does thebulldog have a great one at the moment converting very well :0


Its called MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS ,

woof... woof....

Rip

Yes this is very true

If surfers see the same site often enough they won't buy as often

That's why it is important to use (better) different advertising techniques, and not promote the same sites as everyone else



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Make dirty money from your surfers Dirty Gold
Jack Thumbs TGP Search Engine Driven TGP - Pages LISTED INSTANTLY

ldinternet

Thanks Exxxotica I just had a great idea.

Anyway, I am willing to let people know about good experiences with "tip for the top" or "of choice" sponsors, but I will NEVER give away my 2 best sponsors.

For the record, I also once promoted True Celebs on a new tgp site that I set up, and took down after it became too much of a strain to update daily (hey, I was new - I didn't know my head from my ass). Anyway, with very little traffic I had 3 sales converting at 1:19 and I was WELL and truely pissed off... for me, that was shit. Hey, I was NEW! I was expecting 30,000 sales from 30,000 clicks, if you know what I mean.

I now realise the true value of that, I should have stuck with it at the time. $105 was a lot of money for me then (only 7 months ago!) but running the a tgp at that time was such a strain on me, I just didn't have the experience. However it was stuck to, and in just 7 months time I doing well over 100k daily, I am making enough to live off of and enjoying every minute of it (except for getting screwed). So I am proud of myself, as I've had very little to no help along the way. Networking - and being honest, more than anything, has helped me. And oh... dialers. My biggest mistake ever is doing dialers. That is a no go area.

FUCK THAT SHIT! I've gone off tail again. I was going to say, a big reason why some people give away their best sponsor is the referral. 5% may not sound it, but with a large downstream of webmasters all converting well - even if conversions aren't so good anymore - is a lot of free moolah in the bank.

The other webmasters that give their best sponsor away are either very helpful... or just very stupid :-/

thebulldog

but didnt we all know that?

Scoobs

I am with thebulldog on this one... you need to find what works best FOR YOU and FOR YOUR SITES! I have said it on here before, you simply CANNOT compare conversion ratios between other webmasters. What converts well on my site may not convert at all on your site. It depends on everything from where your traffic has come from down to what color the background is on your website.

Even if I was to come out and say XXXprogram is converting at 1:50 for me, chances are it wont convert for that for you.

thebulldog

ahhh most important tip to ANY newbie

"Networking - and being honest, more than anything, has helped me"

thebulldog

Scoobs whats the url for this program??? 1:5 0 sounds great!!!!!!


"XXXprogram is converting at 1:50 for me"


i tired xxxprogram.com but no luck ? Am i barking up the wrong url address/tree?


lol

Scoobs

Bulldog...

You can find the program at: www.gofuckyourself.com

Wel... what are you waiting for - do it!

thebulldog

lol ;0

Kimmykim

There are two schools of thought really on the saturation issue -- one being that more exposure makes for less sales since the surfer keeps seeing it, and the other one -- the exact opposite -- that the more times a surfer sees a site the more likely he is to check out the tour and perhaps buy -- both sides have their merits and arguments but one of the big things to look at is the fact that programs like Maxcash, CE, CEN, ARS wouldn't be so big and doing so well if they were overexposed -- and when you count how many webmasters these guys have and the kind of numbers they are turning in, maybe it's true that the surfer does get comfy with a site.

Nothing will replace true marketing no matter who you are promoting...

Also keep in mind that when a new type of site -- be it toons, celebs, girls in green pants, whatever -- comes out, there is always an initial rush in the market for it -- and after a while, a year or so, that rush starts to level off -- competing sites begin to pick up market share as well, making the sales harder to come by.

Exxxotica

Very interesting.

But is this overexposure good for the individual webmaster?

Obviously if these mega paysites have thousands of webmasters pushing their programs, they are going to have impressive numbers, and will be making tons of money. Thus the goal of the paysite is fullfilled.

But would'nt that overexposure cause the individual webmaster, to suffer with poorer conversions?

If there are only X number of surfers who are going to signup for a particular program, and that program is offered on every single website...would'nt the chances of a surfer signing up through your site be reduced?

Kimmykim

Very good question Exxotica -- all I can really say is that I know alot of webmasters that are getting very nice sized checks from these sponsors --

In the end wouldn't you think that the webmasters with the traffic who also market well are going to come out on top no matter who the sponsor is and how much it's used??

Exxxotica

Totally True

jimmyf

jimmyf

I really screwed up you quote bulldog
and am going to leave it.

Midnight

I think that there are at least two motivations behind revealing good sponsors.

The first, would be the altruistic motivaton. We hang out on the GFY, and we know that people are coming to the GFY because they trust and respect the awesome community that has developed here. person A, wants to help any newbies with no thought of reward and they offer advice about who they think is good.

The second, is a more self-centered approach. Many sponsors offer webmaster referrals. Person B, is looking to get as many people to sign up under them as is possible.

For myself, whenever I recommend anyone to any sponsor on this board, I merely give the URL, and not my link code for webmaster referrals. That is not to say that everyone who uses their link code is not altruistic, or that everyone who does not use their link code is not being self-centered.

I think you need to read, get a feel for who is doing what type of business, and decide for yourself. In the long run, you can only hold yourself responsible for the decisions you make.

Regards,

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Midnight
The Midnight Collection
Midnight Ventures Partner Program
Excellence is not an act, but a habit - Aristotle

[This message has been edited by Midnight (edited 08-01-2001).]

Jamdin

Sign up under me & you'll make 1:10 just like I do everyday. All you have to do is go to http://www.moongemerotica.com/makemoneynow & sign up for all the programs on that page.

But remember I'll be back next month telling you how I will be 1:999999 thanks to everybody signing up under me

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I have a dream & you can share that dream too at Moongem Erotica

Submit your galleries to Shemp & get archived

TheFLY

Remember exxxotica that these paysites don't give a fuck about you -- they care about money.

If,

10 webmasters can make me $50,000, and
100 webmasters can make me $100,000, and
1000 webmasters can make me $200,000...

Then fuck those first 10 webmasters -- I want my $200,000... See the thinking?

There are advantages and disadvantages to both ways of doing business... which is pretty self-evident... it's pretty much a given that if you open your doors to every webmaster on the planet you will make more money. I'd like to think that I could run a successful program someday soon that would be a little more exclusive -- because I believe that it's important to know the people that you are giving money to -- that loyalty and friendship is more important than short-term profits -- and I think in the long run I'd rather be sharing drinks on my yacht w/ the same people that I started with -- talking about all the good times we've had over the years building something together.

I keep an eye on my trades -- I see what my boys are pushing and I try to push other programs -- also I tend to avoid linking sites that are pushing something too hard that I am already pushing hard. I try to find obscure programs to link and exclusive deals. In the end though I look at the quality of the site I am pushing. I don't care how well it converts -- if I wouldn't sign up as a surfer -- or if the program doesn't interest *me* then I don't push it.

The first thing I do when I visit a webmaster program page -- I check out the "sites" link -- if they don't have a site that I would sign up for -- I don't even bother ever sending traffic to that program. That excludes about 95% of the programs out there on the net ;)

In the end because of this there are surfers that will respect you and become fans of your site and your recommendations... I think your website should be an extension of your personality, tastes, desires, blah. You end up attracting surfers that like the same shit that you like. I think that's one way to be successful.

Anyway new programs may convert better, but they tend to have less content so their rebills will not be as good. We have to keep researching and moving to find the best sites to push... In the end though the paysites win because a lot of webmasters work by the rule of "build it, link it, forget it" or something like that -- so these paysites collect big $$$ from hundreds of thousands of little sites and galleries that get only 5 hits/day ehehe... Not to mention all the thousands of webmasters that try a program and don't make $50 so the check never goes out... On top of that if you saturate the market your search engine popularity index goes through the roof and you get more type-in traffic too. On top of that you have a huge database of webmasters to spam...
All that chump change adds up. Not to mention the intangible benefit of having everyone know who you are. There are dozens of reasons that I can think of why a saturated site will make more money -- and I don't even have a paysite myself! ;)




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...from the nectar of the Bone flows all that clicks...

boneprone

yoda has spoken

TheFLY

yeah but I'm just talking out of my ass -- let's hear what the paysite owners w/ saturated sites have to say...

TheFLY

Well I'm guessing nobody will say anything because who wants to give away their secrets -- unless it pays -- just like exxxotica said ;) Keep the proles and yahoos and affooliates in the dark and make 'em DIG DIG DIG like the troglites for hits! Ehehe... I can feel an avalanche about to fall on me! *laugh*

Exxxotica

Power to the People! (webmasters)

Kimmykim

Damn here comes fly with a post that makes a ton of sense again

There are alot of programs that don't do business publicly and seem to do well.

Before you think that running a big program is all fun games and profit -- think about a couple of things here --

Cheaters -- the larger the program the more cheaters it attracts - so you either pay people to catch them or you get your ass burnt six ways from Sunday by paying on phony sales.

Cost to run a business -- once you get big like that you don't run it out of the spare bedroom, you have to have an office, employees, the whole works.

Reputation -- always on the line, no matter what -- you can pay on time for years and one little blip comes across the screen and everyone's up in arms and your competition is making the most of it. But once you've built a beast you have to keep it fed so there is no slacking up for anything.

Last thing and I'll quit harping on the bad -- as you grow the margins get slimmer because you've got all this overhead, so every dime counts, more than you would think.

At the end of the day more money is still more money tho

TheFLY

BTW that was a Star Trek reference if you didn't catch it. One of my favorite episodes... The starship needed dilithium crystals from this planet with a city in the clouds... or some shit and in one scene some alien dominatrix bitch is screaming at Captain Kirk to get on his hands and knees and DIG! DIG LIKE THE TROGLITES!!! AHahaha that was so damn funny!

TheFLY

KimmyKim thanks! Those are really some interesting points to think about. Some of these little programs are making so much cash they don't need to play with the other kids -- I bet some of them are real private and sneaky about it too ehehe...

boneprone

give the babe a shirt! 100 posts.
gofuckyourself Kim!!
and when ya do fuckyourself be sure im around to watch.

Ron said I could.

TheFLY

Anyway I just realized that I need to shut up . I just had WAY too much coffee eehehe...

Kimmykim

Ha! Sneaky for sure

In economics there is a point on the curve where the maximum return on investment lies. If you don't do enough volume to reach it, you aren't maximizing your profits, but the same thing holds true in that if you do too much volume for a specific business model your dollars per unit sold (in this case a webmaster join) get to be progressively lower for each sale as well.

Finding that optimum point on the curve isn't the easiest thing when you have soooo many variables that can come into play...

drumsicle

KimmyKim, I heard the guy from ARS runs it out of his mom's basement.

LA Mike

Kimmy Kim... You're my "Go Fuck Yourself" hero of the day!!! lol

No you do have a valid point though. When our program was small when we first started years back it was easy to manage. The majority of our traffic came from deals I made myself and the amount of cheaters was small. No many moons later things are crazy. I think the average webmaster would be very very surprised if he knew how many cheaters we catch in our program daily. We have spent endless dollars writing programs to detect cheater but it still comes down to man power sometimes checking things ourselves. And you're more then right when you say that we can pay over a million monthly to webmaaster for years and then one little nobody who we deleted for cheating can go on one of these boards and claim "SilerCash didnt pay me" as an anon post and all hell breaks loose. Its hard for the average webmaster to see what goes on in running a large click program.

Want to trade jobs? lol

Obviously its worth the work or I wouldnt be here telling you about it.

New SilverCash celeb site friday

drumsicle

Silver Cash didn't pay me!


Disclaimer: This post was only a joke, therefore I don't want to recieve any nasty messages when I log into ICQ.

jimmy-3-way

I have to agree...I had a dry week a while back so I switched sponsors and let my stats alone for a few days, next time I logged in I see, swear to god 1:32 for like two days! I freaked and wanted to tell everybody but after about three seconds of doing sums on my fingers came to my senses.

Kimmykim

ROFL Mike -- I know you've got a tough job, it's a pain in the ass sometimes --

But if you're up for it I'll swap you for a week and we can talk

Shirt huh? Lens sure does give away a bunch of stuff over here, somebodys making some jack...

TheFLY

[ tasteless Jack humor removed ]



[This message has been edited by TheFLY (edited 08-02-2001).]

Hypo

That was a really stupid post Exxxotica. Do you think any newbie webmaster is going to reveal his site is converting 1:100 after he's read your moronic post? Why dont you people learn to shut off your gabs.

Steve

I always think of it as an OLD shampoo commercial. "and they told 2 friends, and they told 2 friends, and so on, and so, and so on..."

Some sponsors have a "HOT" period. They just kick so much ass that you make money EASY. I used to do great with dialers when they were hot(pre-FTC), and since then I don't even bother. It's always great to catch a hot program/marketing strategy. It's like hitting a hot craps table in a casino. But that hot streak isn't permanent. It gets caught onto by a lot of people, and the stats shrink. That's the way it goes. I've had hot sponsors given to me, and I've told friends about hot sponsors, too. But I've honestly never had a hot sponsor come to me dierctly off a message board. Some decent ones, but not a super money maker.

But, some sponsors never seem to get weak, no matter how many webmasters use it. AVS sites have been around forever, and there must be a billion of them out there. Yet I still get sales, and so do my friends who I can convince to give it a try.


As far a programs overexposed... I bet one program I used to love would still kick ass, if they'd drop those crappy entrance consoles that open over the tour. That's a pipe dream, since I can't even imagine the cash those puppies must be generating. They are there for a reason.

TheFLY

Steve is my Yoda...! I owe it all to Steve and pornqueens to getting me started...

Exxxotica

???
Is this sarcasm?

Steve

Pete, there's a few guys who call me Yoda. The sad thing is I'm begining to look like him. Round and with hairy ears! LOL I'm just glad I have been able to meet and sometimes help out a few good people, at least.

Hey, I got that new script going on the sites. I'll still use the same account, too. I'm just begining to get things figured out, but the TGPs are already coming back. Too bad I didn't think of switching over to ClickZ before I killed the sites. That was stupid.

whoreans

starting to look like Yoda? even better!

starwar porn.. here you come

Kimmykim

Hey Steve I sent you email a couple days ago -- didn't know if you had gotten it since I didn't get a yes, no or fuck you back

Hypo

No, its not sarcasm. I got my two best converting sponsors from some newbie webmasters. But after reading your post dyu think any webmaster's gonna reveal his best sponsors? What was the point of this post anyway? This was as bad as revealing your best sponsors.

BigDaddy

If you don't say nice things about 12Clicks he comes to your house and beats you up. Maybe other sponsors are like that too?

Toolz

Drumsicle,

It's true, can someone send down some sunlight, the mole people are getting restless here



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