I dont know, i e-mail then about 3 days ago about me getting an account..they answered fast.

never had problem with epassporte...
i hope they will fix your account dude :S

Not all Russians are scammers or commit fraud. I've fealt with quite a few Russians while I must admit I did have inhibitions towards venturing into a business relation with some of them, I have only been pleasently surprised.
In fact, as to clients, it turned out they paid promptly, funds verified, which is more than can be said for a good lot of American webmasters. No pun intended, just making a point.
And as to buying from Russians, you'll be surprised how efficient they are and what kind of work they can deliver. And, they deliver promptly, on time.

That said, ofcourse it's a high risk area. So no telling.. maybe I've just been lucky.

I dont have problems with epassporte...because i'm not stupid enough to use them..


Is this exactly the same route paypal took?

to Rand

You wrote that money were transfered from Personal acc but our Business acc (i mean Noganka inc. and partnership DamCash)which is nothing to do with this transaction were closed. epassport system does not allow to transfer money from Personal to Business acc (P2B) and you know about it!!
damcash was never accused of fraud before and it really offends us. espesially if you cant give us any proofs just words.
we were advised to talk to you Rand cause you are CEO and can solve our problems in a normal business way.
Lets discuss this problem on the board publicly.
We are working with many partnerships like platinumbucks (Josh) topbucks,GuerillaTraffic and i think they can confirm damcash is not a frauder or smth. we are even ready to give you names of people who can.
we are looking forward to hearing from you Rand.

Interesting questions, hopefully they are answered.

Bump, I want this verified. Any business account owners that can confirm this?

Some of my best friends and best programmers are Russian, don't by any means think I am labeling all with the same brush.

However, there was clear fraud in this case, motos, or whatever he is calling himself today, has been told repeatedly, by Rand, by me, and by our risk management department, that his account was closed for fraud.

We do not, and will not, discuss our specific fraud control methods, since obviously this would allow fraudsters more information and insight into our system and give them more ideas as to how to attempt to defraud us in the future.

The question about p2b is also easily answered:

p2p is fine.
b2p is fine.
b2b is fine.

p2b requires the use of the ePpurchase interface to process, but if you are using that there is no problem with the transaction.

So, there you have it in a nutshell.

My point Epassporte is doing what they want. My account was closed 2 weeks ago. My account had ZERO transactions but it was closed. When I tried to contact Epassporte I've got general answers from support tem. Then I've Emailed Kimmykim personally and she promised to check my problem. I haven't got any reply from Kimmykim yet. I guess it's some kind of Epassporte policy - not to answer E:mails.
As I understand Epassporte can't close accounts because they want it to be closed. The only reason for closing an account - is violating Terms&Cond. When I asked Epassporte "team" to show me where I was wrong - I've got very interesting answer - "We apologize but we are unable to give you any more information regarding this account." When I read Epassporte E:mails I can't believe I read E:mails from BIG and FAMOUS company. Their E:mails look like messages from my friend who is playing jokes on me.

If you don't want to work with Russians - just add some note "No Russians". But since you don't have such note - you should treat us as customers.

I also have epass acount.

Account was opened by GammaCash, and i get payments from Gamma to this account.
Three weeks ago, my friend make payment to this account from one of personal account opened by DamCash. This account and my account are also closed. Where is absolutely no fraud activity on this account. I receive money only from GammaCash.

Epass has all my documents.

I call support 4 times, but they dont want unblock this account.

i had epassporte account opened by DamCash. After one of my friends paid me there, it was blocked. Also was blocked my friend's account, and the account of my another friend, whom I sent money 2 days ago.

So, it was said to me by epassporte, that my account is fradulent.
And the reason he is fradulent - is that he was opened by DamCash.

The main question - what the fault of the people, who made me transfers and to whom I made tranfers. They was also closed and lost money...

As I said, I have nothing against Russians.

I do have quite a few issues with fraudsters and cheaters.

Does that mean that every account in this ring that was closed had fraudulent activity on it? No.

Many of the accounts were closed prior to there being any activity whatsoever on them due to the nature of the fraud up the chain.

I'm not going to apologize for our risk management group, they do a very good job.

I'm not going to apologize for us occasionally saying we won't tell you why your account was terminated.

Any time there is money that needs to be accounted for, it is sorted out and returned to where it rightfully belongs, whether that's crediting someone's card or putting it back into the account that it should be in.

I've been in this business on the processing side for nearly 5 years now, and it's always the same thing. Cheaters think that if they keep on crying about the fact they were caught cheating, their accounts will either be re-instated or they will get some answers that allow them to develop better methods to attempt to cheat.

This is not limited to ePassporte either, I went through this same nonsense with CCBill all the time when I was there.

If money comes into the system through fraudulent means, or money through the system fraudulently, that doesn't mean that after the money moves around a time or two it's no longer fraudulent, it simply means that it still needs to find it's rightful owner and be returned.

This isnt rocket science.

And if we catch someone attempting or committing fraud, you don't seriously think that we are going to allow them to perpetuate it, do you?

Cheaters never send to you any real info. Because they afraid some legal action. IMHO.

Epass have all my documents (id, phone bill). I'AM NOT CHEATER.

I know one more case with closed account. And in this case epass tell about FRAUD activity on empy accounts without any transaction!

epassporte is trash.

I got burnt as well.

They hired assholes for customer service.

They come on the board and try this damage control thing, and find a few people to back them up, becuase those people probably do business with them using paycom transactions, and have too much money tied up into them with rebills, that they wouldnt dream of saying anything bad about them.

you shouldnt have kept my money and closed my account!!

for what?

I opened my account, they charged me $50 to do so. Then on my very first payment i received through them, they froze the account, were extremely rude to me on the phone and didnt help me at all, told me i would receive an email, and never did.


way to go epassporte.

The reason my account was closed is not "fradulent" money.
The reason I was told by mail - it was closed because it was opened by DamCash, and all accounts created by DamCash were closed.

So that money WASN'T fraud. What fault of the person who paid it to me, and the person whom i paid them next?

They are not FRAUDSTERS.

Again - the reason I was told - my account closed because ALL DamCash accounts were closed. What the fault of the people who paid me? Why you closed their accounts? There wasn't any fraud money. NO FRAUD MONEY AT ALL.

And what is my fault also?

If you found fraudster - close him. close accounts of his partnters, but what is my fault? I don't connected with any fraudster at all.

Me and my friends lost money for nothing.

Kimmy, i'm sure there are a lot of people who are trying to defraud your system...however, i have a question about the normal accounts :

is there a way, or official procedure in place to determine that I can use, as a epassporte account holder., to determine if the money sent to me by someone else are from a fraudulent source ? Also there is a way i can deny this transfers ?

I'm asking this because a normal account can receive money from a fraudster without knowing it , and , accounding to what people say, both the fraudulent account from where the money were originating and the normal account get closed....

you probably had some good reasons for closing some of the accounts, but please explain the question above in detail, to prevent normal people who hold normal epassporte accounts to be closed becouse they might receive funds from fraudulent accounts without knowing it...

They dont know reason. Call him 2 times and you get 2 different answers.

This is exactly what I want to know. I tried asking them the same thing on the phone, and I got nothing, but some seriuosly rude mother fucker on the phone, telling me to wait for an email explaining what happened.

Hey, I never received my email....epassporte said 2 days. Its been over 2 weeks! still nothing.

I think your missing the point dear..

Several people have come here saying they had money taken and werent part of any "ring" they were merely affiliates who signed up for a sponsor. I dont see how that requires seizure of all funds and accounts associated with that account.

either your calling every affiliate that used this sponsor a liar , or you have money that doesn't belong to you.

This is far from rocket science. Your customer service is terrible, you insinuate fraud with every post you make so as to make any complaint seem like fraud. If you have proof of fraud with the account then POST IT OR STOP INSINUATING BULLSHIT.

You also seem to insinuate that all these people are russians and therefore must be guilty...

If joe@epassporte loaded his account with $20 from a stolen cc and then bought a domain from a person on gfy with an account balance of 3grand how do you figure that gives you the right to seize the guy who just sold him a domain ???

But then again why bother figuring it out because when you lock an account you take the money , so its of no loss to you and certainly no gain to try and figure out what really happened..


So lets talk concrete things here..

Where did the money go from affiliates of damacash. ( you said it was returned to rightfull owners ) so how much was taken/returned and how much are you sitting on ??

I dont think this is an unfair question..

You sure dont make a very good customer service rep by trying to pull this sort of shit without TRANSPARENCY to your customers.

hard to know the thruth in all those shits...I'm about to open a Profesionnal Epassport account...don't know what to do...I can believe that this sponsor could have his account closed due to something on which he can't do anything...

Well Smokey, here we go.

And I'll go slowly.

If someone were receiving money from a fraudulent account, even if it were their sponsor, and the money that was in the ePassporte system originated in a fraudulent manner, the blame is on the sponsor, not on ePassporte.

Good question !! :thumbsup I asked the same question , they wont ever answer that..


But at least you now know how to piss someone off and take their money..

All you have to do is load an epassporte account send some money to your enemies then report your cc as stolen and they will close all the accounts.. Clever eh..

99.9% of sponsors aren't cheaters, Russian, American, whatever. If you've got a specific list of sponsors you are receiving monies from and you want me to take a look at it, drop me an email and I will. Can I guarantee they won't ever cheat? No. Can I give you my personal opinion? Yes.

If a sponsor were attempting to cheat Paycom, CCBill, Ibill, etc and they closed the sponsor account, credited the joins back and didn't issue payments, I don't see where there would be such an outcry. It happens all the time.

Just because a few folks got caught cheating and seem to think that by bringing it up over and over again we are going to change out position on it, doesn't mean we are going to change our position.

The point that seems to be overlooked here is that the original money doesn't get tossed into some slush fund to pay for drinks for the ePassporte crew; when we find fraud the money goes back to where it started without being tainted.

If that means that surfers or other people had money refunded to them because of something that happened down the chain, that's what happens.

This isn't even simple auto mechanics at this point, much less rocket science...

As i see you dont want listen what we say.

Maybe this help:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Epassporte Customer Service" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: Important Notice About Your ePassporte Account


> Dear Cardholder,
>
> Our Accounts Verification Department has terminated your account and all
> other accounts created by your sponsor noganka. Please direct all further
> inquiries to [email protected].
>
> I hope this information is helpfull.
>
> Regards,
> Jon
> Epassporte Cardholder Services
> [email protected]
> Toll-Free from US: 1-877-372-7790
> International and US: 1-310-301-2001


Where is FRAUD? Why this account closed??

Kimmykim, if sponsor receive fraud money, what is my fault?

Sponsor can have more than 100 affiliate accounts, and if one of them is fraudster, what is the fault of other 99?

Can you show any prove, that I did something wrong? Can you tell me what is my fault? What i did wrong. I lost my money. I lost tons of nervous trying to solve this problems with my friends who were also closed for nothing.

How can people know who receive money know are they fradulent or not? Or are they in fradulent ring or not? How can i use your system, if you can close account in every moment with all MY money on it.

Explaining nothing.

Now, I'm going to be out for the afternoon, it's the weekend and I just got back from way too long in Florida for show business.

By the time I get back I expect that we'll have several more brand new posters screaming about this, more questions from Smokey, even though I know he's smart enough to figure this out and just loves to stir the shit when I'm involved (;-}}}) and some other goodies to boot.

Stay tuned, get the popcorn out, maybe we can even get some surprise posters in the thread to comment.

im not talking about blame.. I'm talking about $$$$.

If a guy goes into 7-11 and buys a slurpee with a stolen credit card visa doesn't SEIZE the 7-11.

Ok now this isn't the best example but lets say 7-11 commited a fraud and then you went in with your cc and bought something visa wouldn't close your account.

The money has to be returned yes, but this sounds fairly unlegal.

If a mobster hires a pool guy ( unknwn to the pool guy ) your basically seizing money that the pool guy earned because the mobster got it illegally. That doesn't mean the poolguy shouldn't earn his money , he didn't know shit.. All he did was clean a pool and your taking his money..

If you, or any other affiliates who don't understand what I am saying or aren't happy with it, would like to email me directly with your account user name, I'll be happy to have risk management look into where every dollar that came into or went out of your account originated, and I'll be happy to deal with you directly.

Should there be an error on our part then I will let you know. On the other hand, should you turn out to be part of this, then I will let the board know, does that sound fair enough?

Not using epassporte yet myself kimmy, so this is not an attack, knock, or anything of that matter. I am just attempting to follow along.

Scenerio:
I sell something to person X using epassporte.
Epassporte transfers the money into my account.
My services or product is delivered to person X.
Epassporte then discovers that person X was envoled in fraud.
Epassporte then freezes person X's account.
Epassporte then removes said funds from my account.
Epassporte could freeze my account for recieving such money?
Or is there some sort of seller's protection that the transfer fee's cover?

The point i think your missing is , if one of these affiliates ( who didnt do anything wrong ) had the money from the sponsor seized , that is one thing.. But what about other monies accrued in these accounts..

Lets say if the affiliate whom you closed the account because he was signed up under a fraud sponsor had just sold 20 domains for $200 so he had his damcash payments and $200 in his account .. what happens to the $200. ??

Pretty simple question

Smoky made a extremely intelligent point, so I dont think there is any need to go slowly. Treating people like they are stupid shows the amount of arrogance you people have over there.

I opened an account, to recieve payments from alot of webmaster affiliate programs. I had planned on using it extensively. However, on my very first transaction, you froze my account.

I think it should be pretty obviuos to other affiliate programs thinking of using epassporte. If they send there affiliate funds, and then another program sends them funds, but they are "alledgedly" fraudulent and you freeze the account of the affiliate webmaster, then thats gonna make payouts a nightmare for the non fraudulent affiliate program.

what a fucking mess.

sad.

This isnt about pool guys and I'll reference my post above as to why you continue to be deliberately obtuse in this case.

If this were CCBill or Paycom or IBill and a fraudulent sponsor turned up, and the affiliate payouts were reversed, there wouldn't be this hue and cry about it.

And if the above example were the case, and it were the police or the DOJ on it, they'd attempt to recover the money from the pool guy as well as the mobster, there's this little thing called the RICO act, and all those conspiracy laws. It doesn't mean the pool guy was guilty, it's simply the law.

They can do anything with your money and your account and you have no explain about this.

Why did you have to open an account? Every legitimate sponsor that pays via ePassporte will open accounts for their affiliates when they pay out. There is no reason that you should have had to open your account yourself if you were going to be receiving money from sponsors.

This is much better put.. :thumbsup

You not only get the money taken from your account , but you also get ALL OTHER MONEY taken away as well.. But this money just floats around in epassporte without anyone owning it ??

So basically you cant ever accept money from anyone , because if you do and one day they do something bad epassporte will take all your money ?? hmm this doesn't sound right at all..

Questions to epassporte:
1) Why did you close accounts of damcash affiliate webmasters? If damcash got stolen money from somebody, this does not necessary mean that damcash affiliates are subject to your repressions?
2) Maybe the REAL reason for closing damcash business account in question is that they changed their address to Russia. Are you racists or what?
3) Should I open epassporte account and have honest funds in it... What if I pay to some Joe, and this Joe will have his account closed someday. I BET YOU WILL CLOSE MY ACCOUNT AS WELL WITH NO REASONS AT ALL.
4) Finally, Epassporte, please confirm that DAMCASH affiliate program together with its owners are fraud and scam. Since you closed their account, it must be so, isn't it?

Sorry, I missed your post, or I'd have answered you directly, but now I will.

If I am a sponsor and an affiliate is using stolen credit cards to sign up to my site and collect their payout, then Visa, Mastercard, etc will take the money from my account even though I did not know the affiliates were committing fraud.

This hasn't changed in all the years that there have been credit card payments. In some cases Visa might eat the loss, or the bank might, but that's pretty rare to see.

Keep in mind that when you use ePassporte, you are using the Visa system. Visa has certain rules, processes and regulations that have to be followed regarding transactions.

I've already answered this, if you aren't reading my posts, I'm going to stop replying to yours.

It would seem to me, that if you close an account, becuase someone sent to that account, money that was received from fraudulent means, and then you keep ALL the money that the account received from other "non" fraudulent parties, then epassporte, themselves would be guilty of fraud.

Im not a lawyer, but if you ask one, they will tell you something pretty close.