Alex From San Diego

You are correct Soul. Whether you pay for a listing or try to submit, if your gallery "Looks like an advertisement" or "not enough content" you get denied. I started in this biz doing galleries and did quite well but over the years my money is in PPC and SE listings. I'll do 10 times the joins per day as any top notch tgp submitter does.

What it boils down to is, how you e*x*e*c*u*t*e you your business model. Free porn is here to stay....If you don't adapt, you just might be passed on by never to catch up.

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SleazyDream

refering to signups a day idiot - read.

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Rick Latona

I meant, it isn't "kind of" a TGP, it is a TGP but done better, shmuckos. ;)

That said, when do you get to Atlanta? I'm having a party on Cinco de Mayo and I'd be honored if you came.

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quiet

it's a factor. but it also makes honest, quality sites stand out

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jayeff

Your first respondent didn't imply, let alone state that billing was the only problem. He wrote simply that billing practises were more of a problem than TGPs.

He didn't go far enough. Even among the sponsors who have been around for years, the vast majority appear to believe that at any moment the bubble will burst. To them, surfers are just chickens to be plucked and thrown away. So these days, if we are lucky, maybe 10% of our potential buyers still haven't been burned at least once. And the percentage declines every year.

There are thousands of pay sites, yet you would be hard pressed to get out of two digits, counting those which deliver something the surfer is likely to be happy paying for. In comparison, the average TGP treats the surfer perhaps too kindly. And without so much easily accessible free porn, maybe there would be more surfers willing to get taken again. For a while.

But until sponsors like Alscan, Karup, ATK, and Scoreland become the norm for our industry, instead of the exceptions, TGPs are among the least of our problems.

Mr Pheer

I tried tgp for a brief (very brief) amount of time and the ratios disgusted me. I can pull 1:150 on SE traffic and 1:25 on chat traffic so thats what I stick with.

Just stick with what you know and do it well, dont worry about what the webmaster next door is doing and you'll do ok.

SleazyDream

i get in on the 6th. debating changing it to the 5th though - not sure if i can.....

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SleazyDream

word

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quiet

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SleazyDream

good advise

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DraX

Some simple thoughts

I think there are certain tgps that would benefit the industry if they were gone.

Tgps with 100 of categories and tons of galleries on each category.

Those that trade with alot of skimming on galleries (this would of course in my oppinion be smaller sites cause they wanna grow) but still bad , the tgp sites that have hardlinks and galleries that goes to galleries is much better and gives the surfer more trust, and the site owners makes more cash too with a surfer friendly site. But for a newcomer that would be very hard to get that kind a site growing in any bigger volumes if he doesnt have much cash behind.

And its like somebody else mentioned almost everybody starts out with a tgp----trading and skimming and jerking around bad traffic that gets even worse for each day a new tgp starts.

drax

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jojojo

I dont think they are killing the industry I think it is the paysites misleading tours with shit member's areas combined with harsh billing practices.

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Mr Pheer

I think idiots are killing the industry.

<IMX>

Yeah. I'm glad I'm diversified plus some...

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MrIzzz

this thread has been a good read.

every business has naysayers and doomsday predicters.......blah blah blah tgps this and that. the point is that there is always room for more money to be made. and yes we can reinvent the wheel also, and have success.

you need to sweat before you can muscle

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slapass

Cross sales and exits being one and two but doesn't that traffic still originate from TGP's as the norm? Once it gets to the paysite, it is misleading to then relable that traffic as the source.

I have heard that typein or direct search traffic is number 1 and about 50% with TGP, mailer, etc making up the other half.

No paysite here so I might be blowing bubbles.

BRISK

My thoughts on the subject:

1) TGPs aren't killing the industry.

2) TGPs are the inevitable result of this competitive industry.

3) If you think too much free porn is being given away today, you 'aint seen nuthin yet!

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dirtysouth

Words to live by.

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tony286

I think TGP's dont kill business if you have fresh exclusive content. Not the same old tired crap bought from the same 12 content providers. I also think if w gets 4 more yrs there will be no more TGP'S based in THe USA.

untitled

maybe cheaper bandwidth=more free content

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Shaze

My opinion:

TGP's aren't necessarily killing the business they may even be helping the business that offer the paysites, but on the other hand there is way to much free porn out there. Signup ratios would increase if the amount of free porn in TGP's were scaled down to show less provocative pictures are just less pictures per gallery in general, but then again it is because of competition that all this free porn is out there. All the TGP's are trying to get the bookmarkers to their sites so they try to out do all the other TGP's by offering more free porn to the surfers. I don't think it will ever happened where all TGP's would agree to limit the number of pics/movies available, so all the free porn from TGP's will never go away. People will just have to adapt to it by building sites that offer more, a paysite with just static pictures isn't going to cut it anymore. Paysites need movies, pictures, interactive content, and alot more. I really do believe movie streams and interactive types of websites are the future. As bandwidth costs come down and technology for this type of content gets cheaper you'll see more pay-per-movie or live webcam sites come about be the main source for paying customers. Once the internet becomes fully integrated into the t.v., live interactive websites will be huge. Just imagine a surfer can sit in his living room with that huge 30"+ picture and tell the girl what to do while wacking off? Static pictures, if not already losing their appeal, will lose their appeal.
just my opinion, so bash all you want.

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Mr.Fiction

When did all TGPs used to be softcore? Maybe there was less hardcore in the past (when there were less TGPs), but The Hun has posted links to hardcore since way back.

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SleazyDream

i was doing hardcore galleries in 99

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NoCarrier

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blackmonsters

Asshole paysites did more to ruin the biz than anybody.
Billing rip offs scared away surfers, dialer rip offs actually caused dialup people to lose their phone service!
Shit content in members area hurt too.



Then there's the asshole webmasters, who cheat until all easy traffic sources got cut off. It was easy as pie to get 200,000 hits a day until cheaters fucked it up. I even closed my own traffic script to new signs...tired of deleting assholes and I stopped taking gallery submissions only after two weeks of that bullshit.

Bad paysites caused all the chargebacks and created the Visa problem and ran Globill etc... out of business.

Idiots fucked with the tgps and now bitch that tgp was the problem.

Topsite traffic used to be the best traffic because you made your own description and posted a banner to your site. It was better than SE traffic. But where are topsites now? All quit because of cheaters.

Anyone doing stupid shit to fuck with the surfer and run scams and lying about content should blame themselves for fucking up the biz and that's why they don't make money.

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SoundMan

when you start seeing 5 min vidoes for free then start to worry.

it will probally happen..

gin

how can some one compare a tgp to a commercial? if they had commercials on tv where they showed 1 minute previews and had about 100 channels they could view, im sure their sales would drop. who would spend money when you can get off watching the commercial? people are poor. they would just flip thru the channels and keep seeing more porn.. as alot do with tgp's.. if your getting 500,000 hits a day and only a few hundred sales.. that's the worst ratio known to man. since when do clicks count only when they click the sponsor link? just my opinions..

here i'll do it for you sleazy

"gin you are an idiot no body you stupid fucker"
there

CumSensei

Well there you have it sleazy...."done right" is the key word here...

Problem is everyday new people comes up that dont have a clue how to sell a gallery.

It´s those people who fuck up this bizz.

I run tgps for years and they always made me good money on little traffic but I always tried to NOT post the galleries from people who dont have a clue what they are doing.

We all seen the galleries that every now and then slips trough over at the hun with 30 pictures and one sponsor link

Those are the people who mess up this tgp industry.

I always stated the same.....a gallery is a add nothing more nothing less.

But not all people see it this way.

They think give them alot of pictures or movies and I get a sale.

Well...

Less pictures and more sponsor links...

But that for some reason is not liked by tgps because it is suposed to kill the bookmarkers?

Just my 100 bucks

Good thread btw.

CumSensei

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SleazyDream

lol

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

TGP's were inevitable.

However we would all be making more money without em and we all know it.

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SleazyDream

idiot

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BRISK

It will happen.

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Shaze

i'd have to disagree on that....we need TGP's to entice the customers and drive the traffic, just need less free porn on the TGP's then we'd be making more money.

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impfest

The Only Reason
Tgp's may be Dragging Down the industry Is The Dumb Fucks That Post All Thier Best Pics On A Gallery

If Everyone Would Post Galleries Where The model Strips For the 1st 10 Pics Then Finally Shows All At The Last 5-10 Pics
Everything Would Be Fine


Every Day I See Dumb Fucks Posting The Entire Series Of Pics Showing All.

You Have To Give The Surfer A Reason To Join And See The Rest Of The set The Pics Where the model Shows all Ect.

Many Many Times I Have Seen Dumb Assed Webmasters
Post Thier Whole Members Area Free To Tgp's!

Shaze

couldn't have said it better

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BRISK

TGPs are killing the online porn industry about as much as public libraries are killing the book selling industry.

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hydro

tgp's are only helping, sure you lose a few of the cheap surfers who dont want to pay $25 a month but thats not that many people. The other day i was watching the clips at crystalclearmovies.com and eventually got an account after seeing all the clips . so tgp's work, i dont think they are killing anything

Mr.Fiction

whY diD yoU capitalizE thE firsT letteR oF eacH worD?

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Matt 26z

Does the amount of free content on TGP's really matter anymore?

A surfer can only look at so much. A TGP that posts 15 galleries a day is really no different than one who posts 150 a day. It's not like the surfer is going to sit there and view all 150. In fact, they probably won't even reach 15 at any one TGP.

There's also only so much time someone can spend looking around. Let's say 30 minutes. As long as there was enough TGP's and galleries to fill that 30 minutes, the number of TGP's and galleries beyond that is irrelevant.

And we are at the point now where new TGP's don't mean new surfers. So you could double the number of TGP's and galleries and it wouldn't matter.

So TGP's are not a *growing* problem. If it's a problem at all, it maxed out years ago..... Yet overall ratios have continued to get worse. Thus proving it's not the TGP's at this point.

Clearly, the problems are with the paysites themselves.... or at least in how they are marketed (usually in a dishonest manner).

In what other industry can someone without the funds to deliver a good product make themselves appear to potential customers that they are just as good as the best on the level that you can do this online?

We're talking the equivalent of someone building a theme park with a front on the outside that is better than Disney, but once inside all they have is a broken down merry-go-round. That's not very likely to happen in the real world, but it's both possible and very common with adult sites.

You can emulate any high quality site from the outside, and then do whatever you want beyond that stage. It's a very bad thing for surfers.

If there is any problem with TGP's, it's the fact that TGP owners and gallery submitters tend to be reckless in who they choose to promote. Many times it's the sites as described above, and that in the end hurts everyone. Including the eventual quality of the traffic.

Shaze

there are tons of new surfers coming online everyday.....the internet has not maxed out yet as far as customer base....too add to that there will always be people growing up and turning that legal age of 18 where they can buy porn.

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slapass

The US surfer which is the one that pays the bills has less then 100% growth possible. Broadband created a second wave as people who would not buy a membership on dial up would on broadband.

Mainstream is projecting huge growth over the next 5 years as surfers get more and more comfortable taking out the credit card but I doubt adult can say that.

Edit: Stats 60%+ of US has internet and 55% of those have broadband.

cali_22

The TGP game is still getting started and the biggest is yet come ! surfers are just now relizing what great sites tgp's are my sign ups are up and i am making more money than i was for sure. my traffic also goes up almost everyday !

quiet

98

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SleazyDream

i was surfing them in 97

:P

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quiet

haha

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Kappy

What do you wanna more than 1000 daily new pics and videos that you can get on each and every tgp daily new, daily different?

People are not watching commercials on tgps. When I visit tgps and look into the free pics and movies I don't have any clue what they are trying to advertise, I don't look at the advertising, I only want the free pics and movies. The galleries are so clean it's no problem to only look at the free content and not at the advertising.

psyko514

dude, other way around.

my post said hundreds if not thousands were making a living off TGPs. i wasn't talking about signups.

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I see TGP's like the free little hahahahahaha or cheese samples you see promo girls giving away in supermarkets, problem is there are giving away too many 1kg bags of the stuff thesedays.

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