Do you feel a designer should give up his psd files to the clients? - GoFuckYourself.com

eroswebmaster · 03-24-2004, 07:58 PM

Don't worry no drama here...I have always given them up..may rethink that...just wondered.

I know a lot of designers don't...some do.

stocktrader23 · 03-24-2004, 07:58 PM

We do.

grumpy · 03-24-2004, 07:59 PM

depends on what you agreed on.

MrIzzz · 03-24-2004, 07:59 PM

your too nice snuckums

i dont expect them when i buy a logo or something

riosluts · 03-24-2004, 07:59 PM

yeah i think it is a good idea. most people are way too lazy to look up and see what secrets your using to make the wonderful design. Its also useful because what if their domain name chances, instead of makinga brand new image, then they can fix it with the PSD file

jimmyf · 03-24-2004, 07:59 PM

yes, if you don't make sure you tell' em up front.

crockett · 03-24-2004, 08:00 PM

why not .. I can't see a reason not to, after all the person is buying the design.

eroswebmaster · 03-24-2004, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grumpy
depends on what you agreed on.

no kidding...that's not really the issue...do you think they should..should it be a requirement?

What if a designer told you no?

Would that keep you from using that designer?

newbreed · 03-24-2004, 08:02 PM

Funny you ask. I had this issue come up with our designer today. I don't understand why if you have a site designed exclusively for you why the designer needs to keep the .psd files. I mean, what else would they use them for?

At over $8,000.00US for 5 sites, the designer wants an additional 30% for the release of the .psd files. That's a chunk of change when I need them for small things like if I want to change the font on a button or remove an element of the design.

Just my

slackologist · 03-24-2004, 08:02 PM

Depends on the deal and if the client has actually paid. I'd say yes but the client should probably expect to pay more for the .psd for obvious reasons depending on the quality of the .psd.

slackologist · 03-24-2004, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by newbreed
Funny you ask. I had this issue come up with our designer today. I don't understand why if you have a site designed exclusively for you why the designer needs to keep the .psd files. I mean, what else would they use them for?

At over $8,000.00US for 5 sites, the designer wants an additional 30% for the release of the .psd files. That's a chunk of change when I need them for small things like if I want to change the font on a button or remove an element of the design.

Just my

A lot of design work starts from previous templates.. nomatter how different they may end up from the original template. Perhaps for small changes a specific level of detail could be provided inside the .psd for changes you need to make yourself .. rather than an entire complex template.

Tuna · 03-24-2004, 08:06 PM

yes. i always get them when i pay for design work

baddog · 03-24-2004, 08:06 PM

=^..^= · 03-24-2004, 08:08 PM

i think a designer SHOULD give the PSD files if asked - albeit at an extra cost to the client.

I cant see any reason why a designer would refuse to hand them over if paid for

i always give PSD files

eroswebmaster · 03-24-2004, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
yes

do you feel you should be charged for them?

Matt_WildCash · 03-24-2004, 08:08 PM

I wouldn't deal with anyone who didn't supply the full psd's. If I need to make changes I like to do it myself or have my other design.

If that guy wants 30% extra for his psd's he should be shot, time to find a new designer mate

eroswebmaster · 03-24-2004, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by =^..^=
i think a designer SHOULD give the PSD files if asked - albeit at an extra cost to the client.

I cant see any reason why a designer would refuse to hand them over if paid for

i always give PSD files

damn girl you still around?

Vitasoy · 03-24-2004, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by =^..^=
i think a designer SHOULD give the PSD files if asked - albeit at an extra cost to the client.

Can't agree more.

Mcarlsen · 03-24-2004, 08:10 PM

We do..

digifan · 03-24-2004, 08:11 PM

I always give the psd files up.

=^..^= · 03-24-2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

do you feel you should be charged for them?

I know your asking baddog hehe but here's my view

if you got a real bargain rate on the design - then perhaps you should pay for the psd files, thats just fair.

If you paid premium rate for design - you just get them free.

personally I offer 2 rates for all design work
a budget rate - they just get the finished product. - this is less than most ppl charge for a standard rate
OR if client wants to pay small % extra (so a standard rate plus tiny bit extra) they can have the PSD files plus I'll offer free upgrades (conditons apply to what upgrades include though).

=^..^= · 03-24-2004, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

damn girl you still around?

I was awake until 4 am
went to sleep
now it's 2pm i just woke up
and Im back for another shift

eroswebmaster · 03-24-2004, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by =^..^=

I know your asking baddog hehe but here's my view

if you got a real bargain rate on the design - then perhaps you should pay for the psd files, thats just fair.

If you paid premium rate for design - you just get them free.

personally I offer 2 rates for all design work
a budget rate - they just get the finished product. - this is less than most ppl charge for a standard rate
OR if client wants to pay small % extra (so a standard rate plus tiny bit extra) they can have the PSD files plus I'll offer free upgrades (conditons apply to what upgrades include though).

I hear you and it makes sense.

eroswebmaster · 03-24-2004, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by =^..^=

I was awake until 4 am
went to sleep
now it's 2pm i just woke up
and Im back for another shift

LOL well good morning er...afternoon to you ;)

loverboy · 03-24-2004, 08:17 PM

depends. for existing clients we always do. for new ones, its better to be sure, we only give screencaps. lots of scammers around, we always protect the designs of my our own people.

newbreed · 03-24-2004, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slackologist

A lot of design work starts from previous templates.. nomatter how different they may end up from the original template. Perhaps for small changes a specific level of detail could be provided inside the .psd for changes you need to make yourself .. rather than an entire complex template.

I read that a couple of times and must be tired, because I don't see what you are getting at.

Our designer did these three sites (none of them are live, so this is not being spammy)...

www.teenivirgins.com
www.webspies.com
www.wildcollegeteens.com

Now, if these started from the same or a similar template, it was in my opinion a waste of time to use a template because none of them look anything alike in my opinion.

However...

The member area templates are ALL the same for those sites (aside from the headers). I needed to change some buttons for the member area pages. For ex. I did not want some pages to have graphical links to our "chat" or "e-shop" pages. But ALL of the pages had those buttons. So having the .psd files I could quickly and easily change the buttons and go on my way. Some of these buttons had text the came off of the nav bar, so just modifying the original button wopuld not work. The whole header had to be adjusted.

This small issue took me but a few minutes because I had the .psd files. In talking to the designing and working out a deal for another 5 designs, I would have thought that for that much work throwing in the .psd's wouldn't have been a big deal.

Again, my

TheSaint · 03-24-2004, 08:23 PM

I'd drop any designer that didn't include them, or wanted more than a token amount to include them.

What if your designer croaks or goes out of business? Its like selling software without the source code, not good.

slackologist · 03-24-2004, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by newbreed

I read that a couple of times and must be tired, because I don't see what you are getting at.

I'm saying that inside some psd files are certain things that would have been done at an earlier time ( not specifically for this project - but for many project in the past) and is used many times over by the designer.

Quote:

Originally posted by newbreed

Our designer did these three sites (none of them are live, so this is not being spammy)...

Now, if these started from the same or a similar template, it was in my opinion a waste of time to use a template because none of them look anything alike in my opinion.

I'm not talking about all designs/designers/psd files. But this may apply to some, in my opinion some happens to be a lot ( i may well be wrong)

Quote:

Originally posted by newbreed

However...

The member area templates are ALL the same for those sites (aside from the headers). I needed to change some buttons for the member area pages. For ex. I did not want some pages to have graphical links to our "chat" or "e-shop" pages. But ALL of the pages had those buttons. So having the .psd files I could quickly and easily change the buttons and go on my way. Some of these buttons had text the came off of the nav bar, so just modifying the original button wopuld not work. The whole header had to be adjusted.

This small issue took me but a few minutes because I had the .psd files. In talking to the designing and working out a deal for another 5 designs, I would have thought that for that much work throwing in the .psd's wouldn't have been a big deal.

Again, my

Yep, I'm not saying not to give the client the psd.I think they should be included ( i would want them) but i think the designer has a right to be paid for what he or she provides. To me it's like getting a plane ticket that you can change the date/flight etc ( you pay more for those options).

Wade · 03-24-2004, 08:31 PM

We provide all psd's with finished projects as standard, no extra charge.

We've always given psd's, I dont know how you would justify charging a fee to include them.

machinegunkelly · 03-24-2004, 08:42 PM

Wait till one of you catches a client altering a template into 12 different sites , just by changing text , colours etc ..
Your policies will change .

The source isnt the project .

I release PSD's for logos , and sites ( if I am asked and payed and extra amount and I thouroughly trust the client not to build all sorts of templated sites )

Also you'd be surprised how slightly altering a site template will leave you with a couple hundred dollars worth of gallery templates

Also , I have noticed after releasing PSDs , you will start noticing the same layer styles start showing up in different stuff .

A PSD is something someone can learn design from , we arent selling a design lesson , we are selling a website design or what ever it maybe .

After all why buy 10 gallery templates when You can buy one get the PSD and make a 1000 .

good call

eroswebmaster · 03-24-2004, 08:44 PM

good points. MGK

Rorschach · 03-24-2004, 08:49 PM

I think designers always should release them and I wouldn't use anyone who refused to. I feel I'm buying the whole work to do what I please with, not just the designer's time.

machinegunkelly · 03-24-2004, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
good points. MGK

Well its bad enough design prices are being driven down lower and lower each day .

on top we have to give out the source , so clients can save another couple hundred and potentially make another couple hundred dollars worth or design ..

And Ill bet you somewhere , sometime some mother fucker is changing PSDs and selling the designs as a designer ..

Think of how many componants can be given away with one PSD , the potential is there for millions of combonations with just a few colour changes .

Im glad Im on my way out of this rat race within the next 6 months

The revolution begins .

Ash@phpFX · 03-24-2004, 08:52 PM

you should give them, you wil have no use for their designs in the future, and if they want something edited they may want to do it in house or with another designer

mastamindz · 03-24-2004, 08:52 PM

I release them if they ask for them. If not I just keep them on file if they need changes later on.

eroswebmaster · 03-24-2004, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rorschach
I think designers always should release them and I wouldn't use anyone who refused to. I feel I'm buying the whole work to do what I please with, not just the designer's time.

Well are you paying for more than just the designers time?

Serious questioni.

I charge $30 for a single gallery. It could take me 1-2 hours to complete..do the math..that's anywhere from $30-$15 an hour..

eroswebmaster · 03-24-2004, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by machinegunkelly

Im glad Im on my way out of this rat race within the next 6 months

The revolution begins .

Well good luck wherever your path takes you

You're a damn good designer.

Warden · 03-24-2004, 08:54 PM

If I am paying for design then hell yeah I want the psd's. If things don't work out, the last thing you need is a designer holding the master files outta spite.

machinegunkelly · 03-24-2004, 08:56 PM

Who wants to play a game ?

Ill post a PSD and we'll see how many sites we can build with it ..

Ill only post one if someones game .
gimme time to dig one up I didnt use ..

1 PSD can render you with 100s of galleries banners etc etc .. that you wouldnt have had the talent to make on your own .. thats why you're paying a designer .

Axeman · 03-24-2004, 08:56 PM

I only buy design work if I get the PSD's with them. I am not going to pay to have minor things changed.

machinegunkelly · 03-24-2004, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Axeman
I only buy design work if I get the PSD's with them. I am not going to pay to have minor things changed.

For the record .
If someone comes to me and asks me to make changes .
I Almost always do it Free of charge , providing the " changes " dont require me to turn the site upside down untill its another site .

TweetyBird · 03-24-2004, 09:07 PM

I believe it really depends on what the 'job' is... I mean sometimes, I think it's better if you keep the PSDs when some other occasions you'd better give them up

PiksalDesign · 03-24-2004, 09:09 PM

I include psd's fonts and anything I used in the design, i.e. stock photos or content.

machinegunkelly · 03-24-2004, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Well good luck wherever your path takes you
You're a damn good designer.

Ahh , Ill never stop designing

tis my passion , Just changing who I am doing it for
Within the next 6 months I will close the doors to new clients .

Working only with my existing client base ( which is large enough ) and on my own projects . the time has come to make the profit off my work rather than watching others , unfortunatly I havent had time to do both over the last 2 years

TheJimmy · 03-24-2004, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baddog
yes

but I also agree with the thought that it should be mentioned in the beginning of the job/bid....same consideration and process is usually involved when I ask for 'source' when I bid jobs with programmers...

Pun · 03-24-2004, 09:25 PM

I would refuse to do business with a designer who didn't provide me with the PSD, free of charge. As someone already stated, we're paying for the design of our site/logo/template and if I, as a consumer, want to change it, I want to change it.

Button text, email addresses, phone numbers, business location(s), etc. All of that stuff should be able to be changed without waiting for the designer to have time to do it for you.

tootie · 03-24-2004, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by machinegunkelly

Also , I have noticed after releasing PSDs , you will start noticing the same layer styles start showing up in different stuff .

A PSD is something someone can learn design from , we arent selling a design lesson , we are selling a website design or what ever it maybe .

After all why buy 10 gallery templates when You can buy one get the PSD and make a 1000 .

I guess have to agree with this one. I do give PSDs in some circumstances, but not all the time. If I really trust someone or if they have a really valid reason for asking for it, then it's not a problem. But it's not a good idea, IMO, to release full PSDs to just anyone.

PSDs are somewhat like software... most programmers don't release the source code of their programs for a very good reason, and some even go to great lengths to encrypt the source. PSDs can contain custom layer styles, gradients, patterns, shapes... all kinds of things that a designer spends time creating and perfecting... and all kinds of things that clients could just rip and use themselves over and over. Unless you're charging a premium price, or unless you trust the client implicity, why take that risk?

Za Ha · 03-24-2004, 09:28 PM

yup, i like to change things after a while and without psds i cant

eroswebmaster · 03-24-2004, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pun
I would refuse to do business with a designer who didn't provide me with the PSD, free of charge. As someone already stated, we're paying for the design of our site/logo/template and if I, as a consumer, want to change it, I want to change it.

Button text, email addresses, phone numbers, business location(s), etc. All of that stuff should be able to be changed without waiting for the designer to have time to do it for you.

The simple fact is as in all things in life there is a charge included..it's just hidden better in other businesses.

however as machine gun kelly pointed out the competition around here is getting fierce and people want to get things as cheaply as possible..so with that in mind it would be a bit more difficult for a designer to "hide" that cost...so does the old addage "you get what you pay for," fit here?

In other words would you rather pay higher for a good quality product psds included or get a cheap quality product with no psds included?

slackologist · 03-24-2004, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pun
I would refuse to do business with a designer who didn't provide me with the PSD, free of charge. As someone already stated, we're paying for the design of our site/logo/template and if I, as a consumer, want to change it, I want to change it.

Button text, email addresses, phone numbers, business location(s), etc. All of that stuff should be able to be changed without waiting for the designer to have time to do it for you.

unfortunatley, nothing is free.

03-24-2004, 07:58 PM	#1
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	Do you feel a designer should give up his psd files to the clients? Don't worry no drama here...I have always given them up..may rethink that...just wondered. I know a lot of designers don't...some do. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

03-24-2004, 07:58 PM	#2
stocktrader23 Let's do some business. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The dirty south. Posts: 18,781	We do. __________________ Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

03-24-2004, 07:59 PM	#3
grumpy Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 9,870	depends on what you agreed on. __________________ Don't let greediness blur your vision \| You gotta let some shit slide icq - 441-456-888

03-24-2004, 07:59 PM	#4
MrIzzz If u touch it, I will cum Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: long island Posts: 22,923	your too nice snuckums i dont expect them when i buy a logo or something __________________ WHO WANTS TO PLAY GRAB-ASS?

03-24-2004, 07:59 PM	#5
riosluts Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 5,250	yeah i think it is a good idea. most people are way too lazy to look up and see what secrets your using to make the wonderful design. Its also useful because what if their domain name chances, instead of makinga brand new image, then they can fix it with the PSD file __________________

03-24-2004, 07:59 PM	#6
jimmyf OU812 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: California Posts: 12,651	yes, if you don't make sure you tell' em up front. __________________ Epic CashEpic Cash works for me Solar Cash Paysite Plugin Gallery of the day freesites,POTD,Gallery generator with free hosting

03-24-2004, 08:00 PM	#7
crockett in a van by the river Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76,806	why not .. I can't see a reason not to, after all the person is buying the design. __________________ In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

03-24-2004, 08:02 PM	#9
newbreed Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ThatOneProgram.com Posts: 9,898	Funny you ask. I had this issue come up with our designer today. I don't understand why if you have a site designed exclusively for you why the designer needs to keep the .psd files. I mean, what else would they use them for? At over $8,000.00US for 5 sites, the designer wants an additional 30% for the release of the .psd files. That's a chunk of change when I need them for small things like if I want to change the font on a button or remove an element of the design. Just my

03-24-2004, 08:02 PM	#10
slackologist Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 2,379	Depends on the deal and if the client has actually paid. I'd say yes but the client should probably expect to pay more for the .psd for obvious reasons depending on the quality of the .psd.

03-24-2004, 08:06 PM	#12
Tuna Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Steeler Country Posts: 1,307	yes. i always get them when i pay for design work __________________ $30 PER SIGNUP PLUS 25% RECURRING FREE HOSTED PIC AND MOVIE GALLERIES Submit Your Free Sites, Pic and Movie Galleries Here ICQ : 20034024

03-24-2004, 08:06 PM	#13
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	yes

03-24-2004, 08:08 PM	#14
=^..^= Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: ICQ 380-366 Posts: 6,935	i think a designer SHOULD give the PSD files if asked - albeit at an extra cost to the client. I cant see any reason why a designer would refuse to hand them over if paid for i always give PSD files __________________ #RememberYourRoots #AaronMForGFYHOF

03-24-2004, 08:08 PM	#16
Matt_WildCash Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,699	I wouldn't deal with anyone who didn't supply the full psd's. If I need to make changes I like to do it myself or have my other design. If that guy wants 30% extra for his psd's he should be shot, time to find a new designer mate

03-24-2004, 08:10 PM	#19
Mcarlsen Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mn Posts: 210	We do..

03-24-2004, 08:11 PM	#20
digifan The Profiler Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ICQ 76281726 and I'm female Posts: 14,618	I always give the psd files up. __________________ [email protected] Webair Rocks

03-24-2004, 08:17 PM	#25
loverboy When it rains, it pours Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 20,609	depends. for existing clients we always do. for new ones, its better to be sure, we only give screencaps. lots of scammers around, we always protect the designs of my our own people.

03-24-2004, 08:23 PM	#27
TheSaint Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Everywhere at once Posts: 991	I'd drop any designer that didn't include them, or wanted more than a token amount to include them. What if your designer croaks or goes out of business? Its like selling software without the source code, not good. __________________ I have no signature

03-24-2004, 08:31 PM	#29
Wade Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 253	We provide all psd's with finished projects as standard, no extra charge. We've always given psd's, I dont know how you would justify charging a fee to include them. __________________ www.BlueDesignStudios.com ICQ : 1380208 Email : [email protected]

03-24-2004, 08:42 PM	#30
machinegunkelly Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,285	Wait till one of you catches a client altering a template into 12 different sites , just by changing text , colours etc .. Your policies will change . The source isnt the project . I release PSD's for logos , and sites ( if I am asked and payed and extra amount and I thouroughly trust the client not to build all sorts of templated sites ) Also you'd be surprised how slightly altering a site template will leave you with a couple hundred dollars worth of gallery templates Also , I have noticed after releasing PSDs , you will start noticing the same layer styles start showing up in different stuff . A PSD is something someone can learn design from , we arent selling a design lesson , we are selling a website design or what ever it maybe . After all why buy 10 gallery templates when You can buy one get the PSD and make a 1000 . good call __________________ dead.

03-24-2004, 08:44 PM	#31
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	good points. MGK __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

03-24-2004, 08:49 PM	#32
Rorschach So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 5,579	I think designers always should release them and I wouldn't use anyone who refused to. I feel I'm buying the whole work to do what I please with, not just the designer's time.

03-24-2004, 08:52 PM	#34
Ash@phpFX Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,292	you should give them, you wil have no use for their designs in the future, and if they want something edited they may want to do it in house or with another designer

03-24-2004, 08:52 PM	#35
mastamindz Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 3,547	I release them if they ask for them. If not I just keep them on file if they need changes later on. __________________ If you click here, you will make money.

03-24-2004, 08:54 PM	#38
Warden Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Valencia, CA Posts: 2,906	If I am paying for design then hell yeah I want the psd's. If things don't work out, the last thing you need is a designer holding the master files outta spite. __________________ AIM: ZeeRiddler ICQ: 128160005 Warden's MS

03-24-2004, 08:56 PM	#39
machinegunkelly Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,285	Who wants to play a game ? Ill post a PSD and we'll see how many sites we can build with it .. Ill only post one if someones game . gimme time to dig one up I didnt use .. 1 PSD can render you with 100s of galleries banners etc etc .. that you wouldnt have had the talent to make on your own .. thats why you're paying a designer . __________________ dead.

03-24-2004, 08:56 PM	#40
Axeman Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Swamp Posts: 5,201	I only buy design work if I get the PSD's with them. I am not going to pay to have minor things changed. __________________ XXXRewards - Karups - Boyfun - Jawked. Paying on time since 1997. Contact me at brent [at] xxxrewards.com

03-24-2004, 09:07 PM	#42
TweetyBird Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canadian this !!! Posts: 8,532	I believe it really depends on what the 'job' is... I mean sometimes, I think it's better if you keep the PSDs when some other occasions you'd better give them up __________________ sig for sale. ICQ :338213644

03-24-2004, 09:09 PM	#43
PiksalDesign Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Jacksonville, NC Posts: 1,632	I include psd's fonts and anything I used in the design, i.e. stock photos or content. __________________ 469344657

03-24-2004, 09:25 PM	#46
Pun Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Seattle Posts: 379	I would refuse to do business with a designer who didn't provide me with the PSD, free of charge. As someone already stated, we're paying for the design of our site/logo/template and if I, as a consumer, want to change it, I want to change it. Button text, email addresses, phone numbers, business location(s), etc. All of that stuff should be able to be changed without waiting for the designer to have time to do it for you. __________________ TrafficHolder.com - Buy/Sell Adult Traffic ICQ: 18771941

03-24-2004, 09:28 PM	#48
Za Ha Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Still lost Posts: 5,112	yup, i like to change things after a while and without psds i cant