Being a designer, I would say it would be based on the price. ALOT of people are cheap in FL so they want rock-bottom prices. If this is the case, they get high res. (300 dpi) flattened files. If they are willing to pay regular rates, then I don't have a problem handing over the psd's. Ultimately, it will come down to the agreement when contracted (rate and files supplied). Just my :2 cents:

I give them out sometimes on sites

NEVER FOR GALLERIES, or BANNERS.

Not true because the copyright of the design belongs to the company that paid for it.

So you're saying , as long as you bought the 1 PSD , you can do whatever you want to it ?

thats dead wrong buddy

yea, in many cases some peopel dissapear, and changes need to be made.. cand be done without psd

No its not.

What he's saying is as an employee or contracter to a company the work you do is theirs not yours.

If you hire someone to program a script or design a website then they are working on behalf of the company that is paying them and the company owns the copyrights not the individual.


If you have some other previous arrangement than thats a different story.

We get the psd's when we get new tours made, it helps if you change from free to $1 pricing etc.

Also from time to time you'll find a typo in a tour after its been online for a few months.

Some of our sites are on the 2nd or 3rd design, but the old original designs were done by a designer who is no longer active in the bus. and we don't have those psd's. When we needed to change the sites we had to get new designs made.

Short answer? Yes.

Long answer, why the fuck not.

I feel when you make a design deal - You buy the designs... flat and layered.

Besides that every design needs a tweek or two after a launch and traffic starts hitting it.

:2 cents:

No Thats right, when a designer is payed for work the work belongs to the person that paid for it not the designer.

I think if the client wants the psds, you should give it to them but it's also fair to charge a small and reasonable premium for giving out the psds.

:2 cents:

I am very glad I will no longer have to deal with "tour designs" and the bullshit that goes along with them anymore.

the only time I ever had to deal with asshole clients was for the most part during "tour designs"

GLAD to be distancing myself from these type of people.

NOTHING but headaches

good riddance.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=258467

So if I design

siteA.com
you can change the colours
and maybe the logo
and create siteb.com?

I dont think so ..

or I sell you one gallery , you're saying you can just alter that PSD to whatever amount of galleries you want ?

How would any designer make money this way ?

The product and the source are quite different .
If i do 3d stuff do I release my .Blends? , No .
If I do flash do I release my .FLA's so some guy can click " swap " and make 2000 banners ? , No .

Im not a template shop .

People have been comparing this to code .
Its not the same .
Sure there is open source .
The difference is CODE doesnt contain all the elements by anymeans that a PSD does .

A programmers code will contain the code to make the script work .

a Designers PSD contains many " signature " styles . effects and the list goes on and on .

Its much easier to take just one element out of a PSD and create a whole new site , than to take one line of code and create a whole new script .

I will if they ask for it.

I have had both done to me more than a dozen times.

it sucks, and no matter what "site owners" will never understand.

for the most part.

site buyers are NON CREATIVE and have NO ARTISTIC skills, so they do not understand what its like to create something and have it morphed and bashed into something else over and over using your original work.

As i said, glad I no longer have to deal with them.

good luck.

:thumbsup

Wow... Now this thread has taken a turn.

If a client asks for PSD's, we supply them in one form or another. We have a policy to charge clients for these PSD's though.

Now, I have NEVER refused to give a client PSD's. We were always able to work it out.

Now, once a client pays for a design, He owns the work that was provided to him. He is free to do with it what he wants. In Mainstream, we have a contract with our clients to specify who has what rights of ownership for the design and source files. In adult, we do not.

Why?

Because it's tough to claim copyright infringement when every single adult site on the market has similar characteristics.

If Client A wants to change his name to Client A-B, then so be it. If he wants to alter the site, or put up a site with a similar design, then so be it. However, he will have paid for the source files to be able to do that, or he will have me or another designer edit the existing site to where it needs to be.

The only reason we, or any other designer, keeps the PSD's is because we want recurring work from the client. Source files are proprietary. The method we use to design is proprietary as every designer is different. If a client supplies me regular work, great, he can have all the PSD's he wants, because I know he'll be back.

One of our largest clients has paid us 4 different times to edit the exact same banner (albeit we edit 100's of banners and ads at one time) on different occasions. Payouts change, site features change, etc. The client HAS those PSD's, yet they still have us make the changes. They are loyal to us, and we are loyal to them.

As OldJeff mentions, in a work-for-hire situation, they own the actual end product. They can do with it what they please.

However, In a Product-Purchase agreement as we work with our mainstream clients (they buy the end product - the design). We own The PSD's, Copyright etc. Technically they have to ask us if they want someone else to alter the site, or they sell the site.

I hope anyone reading this doesnt think I " refuse" to give PSDs ,

in fact I gave one away last night to a client .. oddly enough

I Just wont deliver it with a design to any Tom dick or harry that stops by my design shop .

A coder gives you the code to make his script functional .
A designer gives you the code and images to make his design functional .

Coders won't like that comparision, lol
Just as you can study a PSD to find out how to create some effects and such, you can study code to learn how to implement certain functions, how to organize your data, etc. In fact, a source code is much more sensitive as you cannot hide any information in it, while a PSD can be much more altered in a way that even another designer would not know how you created a particular effect. Generally speaking, there is a lot of stuff you can flatten in your PSD before giving it out to the client and that will not affect his ability to edit texts, move elements, etc.

:glugglug

The only way to insure your design is not reused is as was already said: In a Product-Purchase agreement or a lisc agreement.

If your selling the design out right it belongs to the purchaser pure and simple. You used art as an example. Fine, if I buy a painting the painting is mine. If I want to paint over the purple and make it blue I can regardless of the attachment the designer(painter) feels for his work. Hell, If I want to scribble on it with crayolas I can once I paid for it, its mine to do wiith as I wish

Liscence your work instead of selling it and thats a different story.

Well , maybe they wont like it .
Im sure they dont like their scripts taken apart and resold or used to build all sorts of other scripts either .

Code is something different . Its called " code " for a reason , its a different language .

PSDs are more straight forward

Here , Have at it a few source files from my site
http://twistedbydesigns.com/herb/tbd5pointO.psd
http://twistedbydesigns.com/herb/tbd5contact.psd

Compare that to an script and tell me its the same thing .
its all there in plain english , as opposed to this


http://www.webnet77.com/help/images/perl.gif

:thumbsup
Hey, you just solved the issue and the debate is over:

Flatten all your PSD effects and give it to client after they pay and maybe charge a fee for them also. I say charge a fee for PSD files because you are giving away your repeat buisness with the PSD file.

flattening the layers renders the PSD useless .
Thats a big point

You're full of shit. Only coders who use PERL give away the source because PERL is not a compiled language.
Try getting the source from a programmer that codes in C++ like windows is written in. Please post your Windows 98 source code!!
Oh yeah , you can't can you because Microsoft will not give it to you.

Im full of shit ?

did you read my post ?
or what I was replying to ?

fuckin idiot .

All code can be decompiled if someone really wants to see it.

Cheers,
Matt

Regarding the subject of this thread, PSD source files, I'd think unless expressly stated beforehand that they aren't provided then they should be as the person is paying for your time to make something, and you're making a PSD file. A lot of designers are under-valuing themselves so perhaps they don't want to give out the source files, but that's a different issue relating to dealing with competition and such. :)

Cheers,
Matt

You're full of shit again!
I didn't say flatten the layers!!!
I said flatten the effect.
Do you even own a copy of Photshop; maybe Photoshop version -0.000

:1orglaugh

Dude from that shit I saw of your toons ,
My 5 year old has better knowledge of photoshop .

:thumbsup

I agree, when you go to a restaurant you buy a plate of food, not the recipee...

I never give my PSD files unless it is clearly stated on the contract and the price goes with that...

It is also clearly stated in our terms... If the guys is not comfortable with that, he can go to somebody else... It's that simple..

I am more tham happy to do minor changes FREE OF CHARGE for customers, this is my after sale service, but as MGK said we are selling designs. not designs lessons.

This is even more true for .FLA files as well...

:2 cents:

AMEN mutherfucker!

about time someone sees my point :thumbsup

Well, why don't you get your 5 yr old to make your PSD files and quit bitching about it.

:1orglaugh

I use photoshop 7 ,

please tell me how to lock my layer style on a text header , and have the text completely editable ?

I may be missing something ..

Wheres the link to that crap you do ?
I dont like to put a man down , but you asked for it and your clearly just a fuckin idiot .

Its simple.. If you want them tell them before hand. If they dont want to give them to you then use someone who will :)

The reason you think I'm an idiot is because you don't have enough brains to read my post correctly.

Click on layers menu, and you will see several options to configure settings and these are the options to flatten.
It makes very little sense to flatten the text unless it's already been rendered (layers/type/render layer) which at that point you can't change it anyway from the PSD file that is delivered to you, provider the designer removed the "actions" and those actions would have to recent or you would be destroying the other work in the file by trying to unrender the layer.
No designer is going to flatten straight text, only the images that test is superimposed upon. Which is the only thing you should desire to change(as in price, free offer, URL, etc...)

If you need to change the image then you need a new logo.

Enough of this, you think I'm stupid but I'm telling you how to use the software.

gee this was actually turning in to a decent discussion, I knew it couldnt last.
:(

That has nothing to do with the issue. The food is of no value after about an hour. The site owner needs to spends a long time regaining costs and the site is NOT disposable.

again :2 cents:

yes

No PSDs on a tour design ? No sale. :2 cents:

you don't have a clue of what you're talking about.

Joe's Resturant will pay *far* more than a mid level adult player.. I can get a site done here for $300-500 no problem whatsoever. In mainstream clients don't have the instant buyer's market with romanian and college kid downward pressure on prices, and a dozen guys in their bedrooms underbidding each other 5 minutes after a job thread has been posted. The average small business website is around 1-2k, mid around 5-10k and large anywhere from 10-100k and that doesn't take into account hugely inflated hosting costs, domain reselling and other things that mainstream businesses make cash on that adult designers can't make off webmasters.

The only very cheap thing in mainstream is when clients are charged for one of those single page directory "sites".

Mainstream clients pay more for logos than adult clients pay for whole sites with logos..

The average adult site is around 600-800 with a logo and everything. 1k is high in adult, designers here would kills each other for a shot at a 2k job.