For the record .
If someone comes to me and asks me to make changes .
I Almost always do it Free of charge , providing the " changes " dont require me to turn the site upside down untill its another site .

I believe it really depends on what the 'job' is... I mean sometimes, I think it's better if you keep the PSDs when some other occasions you'd better give them up

I include psd's fonts and anything I used in the design, i.e. stock photos or content.

Ahh , Ill never stop designing :)
tis my passion , Just changing who I am doing it for
Within the next 6 months I will close the doors to new clients .

Working only with my existing client base ( which is large enough ) and on my own projects . the time has come to make the profit off my work rather than watching others , unfortunatly I havent had time to do both over the last 2 years

but I also agree with the thought that it should be mentioned in the beginning of the job/bid....same consideration and process is usually involved when I ask for 'source' when I bid jobs with programmers...

I would refuse to do business with a designer who didn't provide me with the PSD, free of charge. As someone already stated, we're paying for the design of our site/logo/template and if I, as a consumer, want to change it, I want to change it.

Button text, email addresses, phone numbers, business location(s), etc. All of that stuff should be able to be changed without waiting for the designer to have time to do it for you. :2 cents:

I guess have to agree with this one. I do give PSDs in some circumstances, but not all the time. If I really trust someone or if they have a really valid reason for asking for it, then it's not a problem. But it's not a good idea, IMO, to release full PSDs to just anyone.

PSDs are somewhat like software... most programmers don't release the source code of their programs for a very good reason, and some even go to great lengths to encrypt the source. PSDs can contain custom layer styles, gradients, patterns, shapes... all kinds of things that a designer spends time creating and perfecting... and all kinds of things that clients could just rip and use themselves over and over. Unless you're charging a premium price, or unless you trust the client implicity, why take that risk?

yup, i like to change things after a while and without psds i cant

The simple fact is as in all things in life there is a charge included..it's just hidden better in other businesses.

however as machine gun kelly pointed out the competition around here is getting fierce and people want to get things as cheaply as possible..so with that in mind it would be a bit more difficult for a designer to "hide" that cost...so does the old addage "you get what you pay for," fit here?

In other words would you rather pay higher for a good quality product psds included or get a cheap quality product with no psds included?

unfortunatley, nothing is free.

50 designers.

Yes, if the person asks for them. They are paying the designer and all the material then belongs to the client.

yes...but for a small fee

really?
so when you take a models pic for exclusive pics do you not only give up the pics and negatives but the filters you used, the exact lighting you used all of the elements that went into taking the girl's pic?

Hmmmm, interesting.

Could you email me your copy of the Windows XP source code, I seem to have misplaced mine.

Please use this email: [email protected]

without the psd's I won't buy the work, I paid for that design and own the rights to how it was created. I've never used a psd to make more designs,templates.logos anything, since typically I buy something just for that task. I got burned in the past because I didnt get the psd and the designer is gone, so now I am stuck with a logo that says 100% FREE when the site isn't free anymore (no free trials).

I specifically make sure they provide psd or i'd find a new designer (if I felt I needed it).

Why should a designer charge me $500 and use the same template he used 50 times already and then dick around and take a week to make something? How is that fair? I'm paying for a original design not a mod of someone elses.

Anyhow that's my take on it.

Okay in refrene to the first part:
As I stated in a post above..if you purchase exclusive pics do you get a list of exactly how a photographer shot the model on top of the pics /negatives etc?
No...you only get the work.

Your 2nd about paying $500 for a design that could be modded out...I don't think the fact that you have the psds in hand will alter the fact that some designers may reuse that template again.

you get what you pay for.

The psd cost is already factored in into everything we do. We do not use the same psds to make new projects (unless they are not accepted, and we own the rights)

We always give out psds when clients request them.. very often we just take care of the work at n/c for them.

But the designer SHOULD give out psds if it's not discussed, and he should factor in the cost (if he's smart enough) and if he does NOT plan to give it out, they should be uprfont with the client. Honesty is the best policy, no matter which way you choose to conduct business.

MGC you are right, people can use psds to create templates of their own... but i have learned a lot of times they just butcher the design, because they cannot do same quality work we do, and they come back to us. At the same time, i dont want to be bothered with changing text, removing small stuff or cloning a section to create a new one in a site... this makes it easier on me.

very good points..as I stated before I always have given up the psds and it' s never even crossed my mind until today.

Sure and when you buy a Picasso he gives you all the brushes and custom mixed hues along with all his inner thoughts he used to produce your painting.

You pay for the product; not the fucking tools.
You want a change to the logo, no problem, send payment via paypal. If I'm dead then you fucked up; next time hire somebody that looks like they are going to live longer.

So you want to tell everyone I did the logo and then use the PSD file to edit it and fuck it up and everyone will think the shitty results are my work? Nah...no thanks.

LOL.. good thread.

It's standard policy to charge for PSD's. We have some larger clients who we openly supply them to.. however these clients have given us consistant repeat work over time. They won't take the PSD's and create a new site out of them. They use it for simple changes to the existing site.

In our mainstream work, It's not even an issue. I had one client ask me, up front, if he could negotiate the price down on the source files so his in-house designers could edit the work for future projects. He knew there was a cost associated with the source files, it's common practice in mainstream.

The Adult industry is different. Everyone is used to getting things for free or paying pennies on the dollar for a hard days work. As business changes, that mindset will have to evolve. You pay for not only work, but value. If you just pay for work, you will lose the longterm value of a relationship.

You just hit 1000 dude ! :thumbsup

Great perspective on things...thx.

:-)

Try going to a business consultant and pay him per hour. He will laugh in your face. He charges based upon the value he brings to your company.

Designers do the same.
What's the difference between my company and every other design company out there? I've been in this industry since 1996. I've been around. I've seen what converts. My company has consistantly designed sites that work.

Why can MikeW charge more than any other adult design company? His designs are proven to work.

It's worth it to pay $3000 for a site that outconverts a $500 design, even if the "quality" of work is the same. The $500 designer might not have an understanding of what converts.


The same goes for PSD files... My PSD files are worth more than some newbie designer's who is lowballing his prices to build a portfolio.

Yes, the customer paid for them.

I'm sure you are breaking many laws doing this, all fonts have copyrights on them and most stock photography licenses are not extended freely to all your clients, most licenses only cover 'as part of design' :2 cents: I know this certainly is the case for adult content

I can understand wanting a monopoly on post-purchase update income.. but 30% is fucking extreme.

Lots of stock photography sites are royalty-free, so this doesnt apply as long as you transfer the rights to the client when you're done designing with the images.

As for psd's, yeah, those things are precious, they hold secrets that give designers their edge in many cases, which is how we make our money. Why are we going to give that away? You purchased a web page or print design from us, and you made no mention of our psds.

Of course if the client did mention the psds up front, then negotiation would have to ensue, but just giving the files away to anyone is self-destructive.

I honestly didn't know this would be such a touchy subject ...but there has been some valuable insight shared here.

I've learned a lot from this thread.

In adult anyways. But I have a lot more respect for him than someone designing $400 tours.

It's a must. Anything can happen and changes are required quickly.

Particularily it seems the processors are wanting changes made to join pages every few months as some new rule comes into play.

This is exactly the point. It's common place in mainstream, then again so is paying 10k for a site and most of the cheapskates around here don't realise that... I'm frankly shocked someone has the balls to ask for 30% for the psd's in this market. But kudos to him, I'd rather see another professional like him in the market than another 100 college kids designing for beer money.

Agreed, if I'm paying for a design I'm buying the whole thing. If I want to change a colour, picture, text I can do when I want to not go back to the designer every time.

If the designer does not want to give up the psd files, he/she should state so before entering into the deal.

Yeah same opinion here!

I view it in the same way as software. If I pay to have software custom written (not that I do, I write my own ;-) then I would expect the full source to go with it. If I need to change something minor, I want to be able to do it myself, and I don't want to be locked into having to work with a busy programmer or designer who might not have time to effect changes straight away. If the contracter totally drops the ball, I at least want to have something I can take to someone else to get fixed (be it psds or source code) - or else I'm left with nothing.

You don't hand over your computer and Photoshop program do you?

When we shoot exclusive the client gets raw and edited images/film.

no but when you had over psds you hand over layer styles that you developed over time or developed originally for that work to produce an effect or look your client wanted.

So the point is you don't hand over your filters..you don't hand me your "styles."

BUT POINT OF FACT...I DO GIVE MY CLIENTS PSDS...LOL THIS WAS JUST A QUESTION THAT CAME TO MY MIND.

Yes I think PSD should be given up. It all depends on the original aggrement though. Maybe designers should charge more for PSD's but I peronally would want them for anything I bought.
Who knows where a designer will be in 6 months or 6 days when I need to change something.

What you're not considering is you are buying a website design. What if I used something other than Photoshop to do the layered design, that throws everyone's PSD theories right out the window.

Giving out PSDs is a courtesy not a requirement unless it was part of the original deal. The only exception here is something like a logo which requires a vector file.

As a rule I gladly give out the PSD IF they are requested AT THE BEGINNING of the project, if the client drops it on me at the end, and I have to go and flatten layers and do extra work to present the file to the client as something usable, this takes extra time in my schedule and as such will take extra $ from the client, it's only fair. Again the exception is the PSD was part of the original deal which gives the designer a chance to adjust their price.

If the client specifically requests that I don't flatten my layers so they can imitate and duplicate the styles that took me 7 years to develop, again they need to specify in advance so I can develop entirely new styles for the client and certainly will have an effect on the price.

Some people think it's fair they can get a $300 cash discount and then also get the source files for free? Like Sharky says, this almost never happens in mainstream.