Mistakes to avoid... - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

SomeCreep · 02-27-2004, 10:37 PM

100 Mistakes to avoid...

HS-Trixxxia · 02-27-2004, 10:37 PM

100

Correction --- 101 damn it

Winterverse · 02-27-2004, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

As for the downloads what formats do you suggest?
Do you suggest clips & full movie availability?

By the "12 hour maximum email support and bi daily updates"
Sorry, there isn't any punctuation so I'm wondering what you mean by:

12 hour maximum? or is it 12 hour? what do you mean by 12 hour? 12 hours worth of downloadable movies?
maximum email support <------ I fully agree here, you'd be surprised how much more loyal people are when they feel see the human side of it - they're fed up of the indifference of the mainstream companies - knowing there is a human that doesn't consider them a number amongst the masses, goes a long way.

and bi daily updates <----- Bi-daily could mean twice a day or every two days....so I'm praying you mean every two days
Actually, I was thinking daily updates but I guess every two days is fresher than weekly.

Clips and full movie availability, both is just more convenient for the member and will keep them very comfortable. I would stick with mpeg or wmv for the clips, that simple.. no serious codecs or other bullshit, mpeg can almost literally be played anywhere.

12 hour maximum as in they email you and within 12 hours they should have a human response. Unless you just don't check for mail for whole days at a time you should be able to accomplish this quite simply, I have for the past 3 years easily and my members are extremely comfortable with me and rebill just to -support- the site no matter what state it is in.

And I mean updates every 2 days

daily updates is nice but in my opinion it is a bit too much by yourself, I used to do it for about 3 months and it became somewhat tiring.. I moved to bi daily updates and it is alot more comfortable. I don't like weekly updates because it leaves too much time inbetween for the user to become bored..

HS-Trixxxia · 02-27-2004, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SomeCreep
00

Friggen CREEP

SomeCreep · 02-27-2004, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

Friggen CREEP

HS-Trixxxia · 02-27-2004, 10:41 PM

The 12 hour support is a logical one, I guess. See, I would be pissed if support is not online!! Told ya I was demanding.

I think 12 hour support is a wise move.

HS-Trixxxia · 02-27-2004, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SomeCreep

So now that you've taken away my glory of actually making my first 100th post (devirginized the 50 one in another thread for the first time) It would have been a double-whammy night, but noooooo.......So now, you have to post a question that I haven't thought about or give advice on something we haven't thought of (or mentioned)

hoe_vender · 02-28-2004, 12:00 AM

true that

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hoe_vender
true that

What is true hoe_vender?

freeadultcontent · 02-28-2004, 12:05 AM

rebump around noon pst and I will get back to this.

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
rebump around noon pst and I will get back to this.

Cool.....going to bed too.....

Thanks FAC, you've been a great help.

Everyone else, feel free to bump for the Europeans who may want to help out :-)

Ciao

freeadultcontent · 02-28-2004, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

Cool.....going to bed too.....

Thanks FAC, you've been a great help.

Everyone else, feel free to bump for the Europeans who may want to help out :-)

Ciao

P.S. you will get thread of the day watch.

Webmistress Pookie · 02-28-2004, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia
When opening a new paysite....

Anyone with experiences to warn others about?

A mistake I've been told that some do is thinking they're ready to start a paysite... when they're not. research, research, research

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webmistress Pookie

A mistake I've been told that some do is thinking they're ready to start a paysite... when they're not. research, research, research

I've been hearing that for five (or about) years too. I know enough to work my ass off (could use to loose a few pounds

) & be dedicated to it. If the content is good, the server is taken care of by my host, the processors will be reliable and I don't make false claims in my promotion, that it should work. Success is subjective - once the bills are paid - anything after that is a success. Some people want millions, others are happy with extra money to add to their savings. Overnight successes are rare.

Trax · 02-28-2004, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

As for the DMOZ help - you asked for help....you got it. As long as you don't ask for listings - it's all good. :-))

i dont know you long enough to ask for listings

maybe that will change hehe
jk

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trax

i dont know you long enough to ask for listings
maybe that will change hehe
jk

Don't bother asking

- if it's not compliant, it won't get there. I'm sure you know better to comply before you ask.

)

Edit: adding another smile

frank7799 · 02-28-2004, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

I think I should get that. I remember at one point EscortBiz had found a way for them not to fuck you over. I wonder if it's still that way and if he is going to put that out on the market.

Do you know if Europeans mind the USD billing? Do they prefer other methods of payment?

EDIT: FAC, sorry if I'm drilling you.....any time you want to stop, let me know......hopefully someone else will take some of the pressure off ya! Thanks, it's appreciated!

Europeans sometimes have a problem giving away their cc - numbers. But if they do, there are nearly no chargebacks. In Germany e.g. you can pay via bank account. The surfer tells you his bank account data and you get the money from the bank - similar to cc billing. The problem is there are many chargebacks.

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by m4yadult

Europeans sometimes have a problem giving away their cc - numbers. But if they do, there are nearly no chargebacks. In Germany e.g. you can pay via bank account. The surfer tells you his bank account data and you get the money from the bank - similar to cc billing. The problem is there are many chargebacks.

The paying via bank account is done online or by phone?
See, online cheque thing would be something that I'd be skeptical about using (as a surfer), don't ask me why - I just don't trust it in the case where there is fraud, banks won't be easy on paying you back. At least with a credit card, there is fraud protection and other ways of preventing fraud.

As for the European credit cards - are they still attached to your bank account? In other words, once your statement if out, they debit your bank account rightaway?

frank7799 · 02-28-2004, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia
Is there an English version of inet-cash.de ?

Take a look at starpay.de. They offer a billing solution including cc and all other payments. But I´m afraid they only have got a german site.

frank7799 · 02-28-2004, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

The paying via bank account is done online or by phone?
See, online cheque thing would be something that I'd be skeptical about using (as a surfer), don't ask me why - I just don't trust it in the case where there is fraud, banks won't be easy on paying you back. At least with a credit card, there is fraud protection and other ways of preventing fraud.

As for the European credit cards - are they still attached to your bank account? In other words, once your statement if out, they debit your bank account rightaway?

The paying is done online, but it´s just the other way round in europe or at least in germany. User prefer that way of billing because it is more easy to do a chargeback. That means to the webmaster that you are not sure getting your money about a month.

CC isn´t attached to bank accounts. If you pay with your CC, the bank account is debited the next month and you´ll get a bill from the CC.

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by m4yadult

That means to the webmaster that you are not sure getting your money about a month.

CC isn´t attached to bank accounts. If you pay with your CC, the bank account is debited the next month and you´ll get a bill from the CC.

In Canada, if you want to stop a payment on your chequing account there is a fee of about $ 20.00 + you have to go to the branch and sign 'legal documents' - if you are charging back (saying you didn't authorize it) the bank will suggest you close your account to prevent fraud + they'll ask how the hell the company got your data. It's a little more of a hassle to do that.

As for the credit cards - do they debit your account automatically and is it for the full amount of your statement? In North America, most credit cards allow you to carry forward your balance and allow you to pay 5% of your total as a minimum payment.

The old American Express (which are still in existance) have to be paid in full at every statement.

strobi · 02-28-2004, 09:12 AM

If your paysite is going to be somewhat in the natural/big boobs/busty amateur niche, make sure you get that German billing worked out! Those people LOVE natural breasts

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by strobi
If your paysite is going to be somewhat in the natural/big boobs/busty amateur niche, make sure you get that German billing worked out! Those people LOVE natural breasts

heheh....no, far from that....but maybe it'll be the next one :-) Thanks!

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 09:26 AM

Ooopppsssss double-whammy

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 09:27 AM

Some interesting points from EscortBiz

Slinx' thread

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 09:52 AM

Some people are suggesting it takes about 100k to start up a paysite.....others are saying 30-40k.

Is that the kind of figures you started off with spending?

frank7799 · 02-28-2004, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

In Canada, if you want to stop a payment on your chequing account there is a fee of about $ 20.00 + you have to go to the branch and sign 'legal documents' - if you are charging back (saying you didn't authorize it) the bank will suggest you close your account to prevent fraud + they'll ask how the hell the company got your data. It's a little more of a hassle to do that.

As for the credit cards - do they debit your account automatically and is it for the full amount of your statement? In North America, most credit cards allow you to carry forward your balance and allow you to pay 5% of your total as a minimum payment.

The old American Express (which are still in existance) have to be paid in full at every statement.

In Europe - especially in Germany - it is just the other way round. The webmaster has to pay the fee to the bank if the customer refuses the billing. Of course it´s a crime if the customer does this without a good reason, but try to get your money from a german court while you are living in canada. This difficulty you´ll have to see before making a decision.

Feel free to contact me on ICQ 154723327

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m4yadult

In Europe - especially in Germany - it is just the other way round. The webmaster has to pay the fee to the bank if the customer refuses the billing. Of course it´s a crime if the customer does this without a good reason, but try to get your money from a german court while you are living in canada. This difficulty you´ll have to see before making a decision.

Feel free to contact me on ICQ 154723327

Well, I'm sure with the processors, there must be a fee too - but just to show you that there is a deterrent for someone to refuse a payment.

If the payment is NSF or insufficient funds, then you'd get charged anyway, right?

I've added you to my 'Helpful GFYers' ICQ list

Thanks!

frank7799 · 02-28-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

Well, I'm sure with the processors, there must be a fee too - but just to show you that there is a deterrent for someone to refuse a payment.

If the payment is NSF or insufficient funds, then you'd get charged anyway, right?

I've added you to my 'Helpful GFYers' ICQ list Thanks!

I´ve done payment in Europe for some time. if you have any questions, feel free to ask. By the way, I´m just deciding to set up an own paysite, too. So your thread was very helpful.

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m4yadult

I´ve done payment in Europe for some time. if you have any questions, feel free to ask. By the way, I´m just deciding to set up an own paysite, too. So your thread was very helpful.

When you say you've done payment - you've used it for other types of sites?

What I think I would need to know is which processor is specialized in online transactions for the European market? Does anyone have stats on what Europeans prefer to use as payment options? Which processor has been in business forever and seems like they will be forever more? ;-)

Great stuff if you are starting your own paysite!! Are you opting for the 40k or 100k investment? Or will you lay low and keep startup costs to a fair minimum?

I'm glad this isn't only helping me - I'm sure others are being helped too

slapass · 02-28-2004, 01:24 PM

The processor seems like a good resource do they help with affiliate fraud.

Like things to look for etc?

Do you hunt for misuse of your exclusive material to protect copyright?

Spam friendly host so that if you get an affiliate with zero brain cells, you don't get closed down?

I would need to be a mailer to take advantage of my lists right? People who filled out form, declines, cancelled etc?

Crosssales - are they dead yet? I would sell them and then I would also take them I suppose. That has to increase my chargeback issue right?

teomaxxx · 02-28-2004, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trax
i think when opening a paysite you need to be able to send at least 5-10 signups a day on your own
do the math what a waste it would be if you cannot generate a decent number yourself

so true, i was thinking about opening paysite too, but have to wait till i estabilish some my big traffic sources.

slapass · 02-28-2004, 01:39 PM

Trixxxia,

Thanks for this thread.

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slapass
Trixxxia,

Thanks for this thread.

Hey, nothing to thank about......if I have questions I'm sure others do too. Had I added *TITS* or (PIC) to the title - they'd be all over the place.

Do you think I should post some pics of content? Maybe that'll get'em?? kidding.

Anyhow, great questions - slapass!!

teomaxxx - I think it's a good way of knowing how well your traffic converts too. We're two people full-time here which is basically about 20 hours a day - one will concentrate on the new site and the other will continue what we've been doing for the past 4 years. Learn while you work....experience is so much more valuable

See, I don't agree with the 100k to open a site for us - 1) I'd have an anxiety attack with every breath I took 2) If it shows signs of failure - it's a lot of money to loose 3) Are there really people who invested that kind of money to open up a small paysite? I don't want to compete with Adult.com or some of the bigger fish..... Maybe I didn't research enough of the small guys I spoke to are liars......but I don't think so. I've even seen some of their sites......they work well and there isn't 50k worth of content in there.

Maybe I dream in Technicolor even on Saturdays?

teomaxxx · 02-28-2004, 01:53 PM

i would avoid trial SU, even if you not run affilate programms - not from my experience, but from experiences of all paysite owners i know (only few). Everyone said me, that without trials they made more money.
And you can run in your site some kind of TGP with only freehosted galls from sponsors giving you 30/35usd pay per SU .

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by teomaxxx
i would avoid trial SU, even if you not run affilate programms - not from my experience, but from experiences of all paysite owners i know (only few). Everyone said me, that without trials they made more money.
And you can run in your site some kind of TGP with only freehosted galls from sponsors giving you 30/35usd pay per SU .

I was thinking that trials weren't going to do it for me either.
I guess the free hosted galleries thing is not such a bad idea, however, it also means that you may very well lose your surfer after that. Mind you, nobody says they would stay with you forever either.

Forkbeard · 02-28-2004, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia
Is there an English version of inet-cash.de ?

Nope. But they've been promising one any day now for the last six months or so.

I like them - the only trouble I've had with them is once they paid me *too much* by several hundred euros.

They were cool about it, and were happy to get their money back out of subsequent months' revenue.

frank7799 · 02-28-2004, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

I was thinking that trials weren't going to do it for me either.
I guess the free hosted galleries thing is not such a bad idea, however, it also means that you may very well lose your surfer after that. Mind you, nobody says they would stay with you forever either.

What is your icq?

teomaxxx · 02-28-2004, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

I was thinking that trials weren't going to do it for me either.
I guess the free hosted galleries thing is not such a bad idea, however, it also means that you may very well lose your surfer after that. Mind you, nobody says they would stay with you forever either.

yes, you are true.
i think that 30/35usd per leaving members is enough and better then some shady cross sale :-)
On the other side there are site like bangthumbs.com(provided an run in banbus site), which even use normall galleries, but thats not probably the best way.

cosis · 02-28-2004, 03:19 PM

Mistake don't start a PPS if you do not have the money to back it up, go with 50/50........... My friend just opened a teen movie site and it is doing well with 50/50 and a ton of movie content

freeadultcontent · 02-28-2004, 03:21 PM

Afternoon.

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Forkbeard

Nope. But they've been promising one any day now for the last six months or so.

I like them - the only trouble I've had with them is once they paid me *too much* by several hundred euros.

They were cool about it, and were happy to get their money back out of subsequent months' revenue.

Well, I could live with someone overpaying me, cuz I know I'd send it back - it's the ones short-changing me that I can't seem to digest

Cool....about them opening up an English version - Maybe a call will find someone who speaks english?

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m4yadult

What is your icq?

Sorry for my long absence.....was trying to figure out how to curve a picture in Photoshop......what a waste - thank God I found batdelfuego online to give me a simple secret!!!!!! hehehe

Anyhow - 9.3.0.8.6.5.8.6.

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by teomaxxx

yes, you are true.
i think that 30/35usd per leaving members is enough and better then some shady cross sale :-)
On the other side there are site like bangthumbs.com(provided an run in banbus site), which even use normall galleries, but thats not probably the best way.

True......I don't think a $ 35.00 parting fee is so bad.....I'd rather have that than nothing.

frank7799 · 02-28-2004, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trixxxia

Well, I could live with someone overpaying me, cuz I know I'd send it back - it's the ones short-changing me that I can't seem to digest

Cool....about them opening up an English version - Maybe a call will find someone who speaks english?

Inet - Cash is just half an our away from my office. Their work is very well and the billing sites are available in english and you can choose payment in $. The only thing is their webmaster sites are in german only.

But there are at least two billing companies you should have a look to.

if you want to see a trial, hit me up on icq.

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cosis
Mistake don't start a PPS if you do not have the money to back it up, go with 50/50........... My friend just opened a teen movie site and it is doing well with 50/50 and a ton of movie content

cosis...no no no......I'd never do that......even the big guys are having trouble to keep that 'alive' - mind you....if I'd have an affiliate program and an affiliate has the same targetted type of traffic for about 6-8 months, I've been talking to the person, have picked their brains a little, felt their sense of integrity, then and only then may I be inclined to say that it may be an option if there traffic on average renews for about 3-4 months. Like pussyluver said on an earlier post......know who you are doing business with - it's safe to think that everyone has another goal in mind and that's to make themselves money - they aren't worrying about you :-)

SoundMan · 02-28-2004, 03:42 PM

Probally getting "own3d" is 1 of them.

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
Afternoon.

FAC......sorry I missed your arrival (stepped away from comp)
Bonjour.....Buongiorno....Buenas Dias......did you just wake up?
I kept you up long enough with the questions

HS-Trixxxia · 02-28-2004, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoundMan
Probally getting "own3d" is 1 of them.

Getting own3d by whom? The affiliates - with a pps?

BRISK · 02-28-2004, 04:32 PM

Avoid opening a paysite unless you have $20,000 minimum to invest in it.

02-27-2004, 10:37 PM	#101
SomeCreep :glugglug Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Where the Wild Things Are Posts: 26,118	100 Mistakes to avoid... __________________ Webair Hosting I use and recommend Webair for hosting.

02-27-2004, 10:37 PM	#102
HS-Trixxxia Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 2,946	100 Correction --- 101 damn it __________________ ~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~ Patrizia COO - ♥ MassiveDollars Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com

02-27-2004, 10:41 PM	#106
HS-Trixxxia Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 2,946	The 12 hour support is a logical one, I guess. See, I would be pissed if support is not online!! Told ya I was demanding. I think 12 hour support is a wise move. __________________ ~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~ Patrizia COO - ♥ MassiveDollars Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com

02-28-2004, 12:00 AM	#108
hoe_vender Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 2,018	true that __________________ ICQ #286508534

02-28-2004, 12:05 AM	#110
freeadultcontent Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: "evitcepsrep ruoy egnahc" Posts: 9,976	rebump around noon pst and I will get back to this. __________________ Exclusive Ethnic & Microniche Sites

02-28-2004, 09:12 AM	#122
strobi Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 7,383	If your paysite is going to be somewhat in the natural/big boobs/busty amateur niche, make sure you get that German billing worked out! Those people LOVE natural breasts

02-28-2004, 09:26 AM	#124
HS-Trixxxia Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 2,946	Ooopppsssss double-whammy __________________ ~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~ Patrizia COO - ♥ MassiveDollars Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com Last edited by HS-Trixxxia; 02-28-2004 at 09:29 AM..

02-28-2004, 09:27 AM	#125
HS-Trixxxia Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 2,946	Some interesting points from EscortBiz Slinx' thread __________________ ~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~ Patrizia COO - ♥ MassiveDollars Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com

02-28-2004, 09:52 AM	#126
HS-Trixxxia Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Canada Posts: 2,946	Some people are suggesting it takes about 100k to start up a paysite.....others are saying 30-40k. Is that the kind of figures you started off with spending? __________________ ~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~♥~~ Patrizia COO - ♥ MassiveDollars Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com

02-28-2004, 01:24 PM	#131
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,622	The processor seems like a good resource do they help with affiliate fraud. Like things to look for etc? Do you hunt for misuse of your exclusive material to protect copyright? Spam friendly host so that if you get an affiliate with zero brain cells, you don't get closed down? I would need to be a mailer to take advantage of my lists right? People who filled out form, declines, cancelled etc? Crosssales - are they dead yet? I would sell them and then I would also take them I suppose. That has to increase my chargeback issue right?

02-28-2004, 01:39 PM	#133
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,622	Trixxxia, Thanks for this thread.

02-28-2004, 01:53 PM	#135
teomaxxx Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,734	i would avoid trial SU, even if you not run affilate programms - not from my experience, but from experiences of all paysite owners i know (only few). Everyone said me, that without trials they made more money. And you can run in your site some kind of TGP with only freehosted galls from sponsors giving you 30/35usd pay per SU .

02-28-2004, 03:19 PM	#140
cosis Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Beach Posts: 5,281	Mistake don't start a PPS if you do not have the money to back it up, go with 50/50........... My friend just opened a teen movie site and it is doing well with 50/50 and a ton of movie content

02-28-2004, 03:21 PM	#141
freeadultcontent Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: "evitcepsrep ruoy egnahc" Posts: 9,976	Afternoon. __________________ Exclusive Ethnic & Microniche Sites

02-28-2004, 03:42 PM	#147
SoundMan So Fucking Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MidWest Posts: 3,471	Probally getting "own3d" is 1 of them.

02-28-2004, 04:32 PM	#150
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	Avoid opening a paysite unless you have $20,000 minimum to invest in it. __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.