harvey

Hey Norman, even tho I was the first to say I was very dubious about this since you have too much to lose, there's some very firm evidence that the list used was yours. Dunno if it was stolen, hacked, sold by an employee or former employee or what, but I don't think there's much evidence needed that 2 guys with typos in your db getting mail with the same typos at their homes. And you gotta understand that this, wether by bad will, negligence, settlement, security breach or whatever could cost thousands of dollars to some people. I'm sure you know what are they talking about, doesn't need a genius to figure it out. What I can see is that your biz will be very damaged with this, hence the reason I was so dubious about it. Anyway, instead of threatening people maybe you'd try to compensate and show your good will, at least that's how I see you can save this situation to some extent. You know, Victoria Secret's had to pay 50k for a database security breach just this week and had to change everything in their site, so the threatening and sueing option is no good for you. Instead, try to fix this situation I'm sure you didn't look for

Hope you had no trouble with the fires in Cali

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cosis

to late to edit that stupid post

reasonableness

It's called LIBEL when it's written, and SLANDER when it's spoken.

It's called LYING when you don't tell the truth and OUT OF BUSINESS when noone buys from you anymore.

If you had metaphoric balls, you'd hire an investigation firm, call the FBI and state police and investigate this instead of attacking people who help you in your quest to "Help..prove Matrix's database was used!".

This whole thing reminds me of OJ Simpson.

Searching for the killer while playing golf.

With this being your last post, I'm sure the silence will be more deafening.

Interestingly, it is logically impossible for you to prove you did not do something, but it is possible for you to prove who did.

JulianSosa

The only other entity that has access to our database is our DMCA department.


Whats that?

cosis

i think he assumes we should all knows this

reasonableness

DMCA stands for Digital Millenium Copyright Act.

This is an act of congress from 1998 which says, among other things, that ISPs cannot be held liable for infringements of users so long as they comply with DMCA notices sent by copyright holders.

A DMCA notice is typically called a Cease and Desist notice *C&D* which copyright owners use to compell ISPs to remove infringing content.

One can infer from MR. NLB's falsehood laden posting that he meant to say "Copyright Enforcement Department".

2 Questions for you --

#1 - Why would Copyright Enforcement need to look at the database of customers, if it is enforcing Copyright Violations by those other than customers?

Maybe to check content, see who bought it, and where they use it, perhaps.

#2 - Why would a business person call a group of people inside of a company (corporation, entity) and "entity".

Dunno. Maybe for the same reason Porky Pig put the Rabbit on the fireplace and ran over the old Leghorn's foot with the lawnmower! Don't forget to be late for work!

gin

it's the loop hole, so they can say they didn't give it out and never did

JulianSosa

I See

NLB

Look, I'm very frustrated and personal hurt by all this. So if anyone feels my comments were inappropriate, my apologies. Place yourselves in my shoes. You have works hard for years to do the best at what you do. Always helped out where you could. We would have fought till our last dime if it required turning over my customers. My expression of anger comes from the feeling of betrayal I sure my customers are feeling at the thought that we would hang them out to dry. I've spent the last 48 hours watching the directions of the fires here and am probable a little cranky. Matrix Content is like my child and I've put all my time, though, effort, and love into it. This whole situation is tearing me apart. When Babenet did not pay us we took it in the shorts and paid out every webmaster out of our pocket. Why? Because our reputation is the most important thing for us. So if you feel to continue your Matrix bashing go ahead. The truth will come out. Till then I can't do anything to stop it or disprove it. Even if we were hacked, an employee got our database, Aciacia would not use it. They are not stupid.

__________________
Thanks,

Norman Bentley
Matrix Dollars - Promote the best content!
Matrix Content - The most amazing content!
[email protected]
ICQ: 264018789

Bladewire

KRL I disagree with you. Norman has tried to make peace. He started this thread. He made a statement on AVN. He waited for calls to follow up the accusations and received none. What more is Norman supposed to do?

Have you seen ANY OTHER people come forward, other then Ken, and say they didn't do it?

There are almost 20 companies that settled and only Ken and Norman have come forward.

Whether or not Matrix had anything to do with information being let out, nobody who has made accusations against him have called him to follow up. Instead of attacking those that come forward .. why not question those who TO THIS DAY have yet to speak on this issue?

Does it not concern you that so many settlers have remained silent? You don't think any of those hiding under a rock right now might have done something wrong?

I'm the first to say that I don't know the truth. I have no allegiance to anyone on this board. Nobody here pays my bills or puts money in my pockets. Discovery will happen.. and the truth will come out. We all know that it's more then one company. Even IF you thought it was Matrix.. we all know there are more out there... don't think because you've pegged Matrix ( guilty or not ) that you've gotten the "bad guy" Others have done this.

Instead of speculating - go into action. Here are some things you can do to get answers. If you ever have to goto court you'll have a record of what certain entities have said to you.

A) Send an email to your billing companies and Sponsors with these questions:

1) In the terms of our contract are you allowed to give my personal information to a third party?
2) Have you given my personal information to a third party in any way, ever?
3) If you have given my personal information to a third party why? Who did you give it to?
4) If you have given my personal information to a third party I request contact information for the third party.

* Make sure they answer these questions point by point. If you ever goto court you'll have written documentation of what these entities told you regarding your personal information with them.

B) Research what happened with Holio. There case was DISMISSED.. which means that it's possible Acacia dropped it. Why would Acacia do that? Does Holio have a case pending against Acacia in a California court? What are the claims being made in that case? Is Acacia being sued by Holio for breaking a deal? I don't believe Holio has signed a license with Acacia so what deal has been broken, if any?

C) After you start getting results from the different processors and sponsors... post the results on here.

Remember.. this doesn't all come down to one person or company. There are a few involved and we need answers and doing what I detail above will help us all start getting some answers.

__________________

NLB

No loop hole. Since the theft of our content is so bad we need help to stop it. We did this to protect our customers who actually pay for it's use.

__________________
Thanks,

Norman Bentley
Matrix Dollars - Promote the best content!
Matrix Content - The most amazing content!
[email protected]
ICQ: 264018789

jaYMan

Maybe Acacia has a keylogger trojan on my computer.

__________________
peace&profit,
jaYMan

Bladewire

What more do you expect Norman to do? Give some solutions here.. I'm sure he's all ears and wants to do whatever it takes to uphold his reputation. Any ideas?

__________________

reasonableness

Norman,

Please understand that we too are frustrated and personal [sic] hurt by all this. Based on strong evidence, it appears that somehow information entered into your database at MATRIX - for the purpose of BUYING or CONSIDERING buying content from you, was given to Acacia and USED AGAINST US.

YOU = ***** or ******** or ****** or SOMETHING.

Put yourself in our shoes, the injured masses, and quit worrying about your own ego for a second.

If you want to clear it up, answer these questions:

1. Have you EVER shared your customer list with another party?

2. When was the LAST time you shared your customer list?

3. Have you required all of your employees and people with [any conceivable method of gaining] access to your customer database to sign a statement under penalty of perjury that they did not divulge this information?

4. Have you asked Acacis if they are using your customer list?

5. What are you doing to get to the bottom of this besides posting accusation of slander on GFY?

You can assert that Acacia would be 'stupid' to use the list, but I personally think that a company would be a STUPID COLLABORATIONIST to settle with a company with such pissant patent claims and business practices as Acacia.

I think you sold the industry out for yourself by settling with Acacia and not fighting it. I'd hate to be in a foxhole with you.

You need a good attorney to figure this situation out for you, not a PR campaign on message boards.

makefuckingmoney

damn.. matracia


I wonder if this groundswell about this boycotting of programs is gonna really happen..it sure seems to be heading that way..

should be interesting!

Bladewire

The Acacia issue doesn't begin and end with Matrix. There is a bigger picture here that you're not looking at. No offense... but take some of my advice in this thread and send out the email I suggest to ALL of your sponsors and ALL of your billing companies and find out who answers your.. and those who don't... jump on their ass.. THEY might have something to do with information being given to Acacia.

__________________

Bladewire

That irresponsible.

Many have received packets addressed to affiliate programs they've had that WERE NOT MATRIX.

I'm not defending Matrix.... see the big picture. Their is more than one company giving information out.

__________________

Libertine

They might not even know it's your database, or just believe it wouldn't come out.

Things are looking pretty bad right now, and even if nothing is proven in the end, it will still hurt your reputation pretty badly. I think it'd be smart to start realizing Acacia may well be using your db, and take an active role in what's going on. Waiting for people to come to you with evidence just isn't enough to save your reputation anymore.

For all it's worth, I don't think you sold the list to Acacia, so good luck in solving this.

__________________
/(bb|[^b]{2})/

jaYMan

When signing up for sponsors, I've never used the company name I used on my Matrix account last week.

The letter I got from Acacia came from what I entered into Matrix.



One other thing re's
3. Have you required all of your employees and people with [any conceivable method of gaining] access to your customer database to sign a statement under penalty of perjury that they did not divulge this information?


What about former employees or programmers that could have left some unwelcome nasty program on your boxes???

Do you have any disgruntal former employees?

__________________
peace&profit,
jaYMan

Bladewire

Resonableness.. I like the questions here.. and mind you .. they should be asked of EVERY sponsor and billing company we ALL use. I'm going to add some of your questions to my email questionnaire to be sent to everyone?s sponsors and billing company. Thanks for your useful contribution.

__________________

reasonableness

I don't know if Norman is keeping you as a pretty boy, or paying you to post or what, but your incessant points that:

---> People Have Received Notices From Acacia with Information Not given to Matrix Content <--

and

--> People have registered with Matrix Content and not received Acacia Notices <--

is understood and we all acknowledge that. At least, the ones with IQs in double digits should.

What the focus on this latest witch hunt is, is that there is compelling evidence the unique identification information was entered into Matrix Content's database and used by Acacia.

Diffuse and obfuscate all you wish, but this is the fuel for the fire.

The attack by Norman has added oxygen.

He can find the source of the problem or he can blame others. It's up to him.

I think anyone who settled is a collaborating traitor to this industry, and anyone who would attack those who provide requested evidence is just sillier than an Mississippi Moonshiner on Acid.

I do think people in this industry should query their sponsors and business associates regarding how their personal information is used, but it does change the focus that Matrix Content responds poorly to information about Acacia using unique identification.

NLB

I will do anything to help prove it was not us. Did we talk to Acacia? Yes we did. I did not personally make the call so I don't have the details, but they denied use of our database. Do we have a disgruntaled ex-employee? Yes, what company doesn't. But I won't throw them under the bus without proof. Are we just sitting here not doing anything to disprove this? No. I asked if anyone can help me prove it was my list and very few people called. How am I to prove this with out the help of my accusers? My invatation to call me to discuss this is still open to everyone. It just seams some people would rather make acusations than get to the bottom of this. What more can I do?

__________________
Thanks,

Norman Bentley
Matrix Dollars - Promote the best content!
Matrix Content - The most amazing content!
[email protected]
ICQ: 264018789

darnit

just my .002 but ive dealt with matrix and norman for a long while.... great content, good guy.

But we are missing the point. If he did or didnt its not the MAIN ISSUE.

they want us to fight each other, they want us to rat each other out. Fine let this thread contine but DONT LOSE THE WAR TO WIN THE BATTLE....

donate biatches!

im done...

Bladewire

You can attack my integrity all you want. I've never personally attacked you and your "pretty boy" comment was uncalled for and unprofessional. I have, and continue to, work hard with this Acacia issue because I believe in doing what's right and standing up against the bad guy, and not being bullied.

I stated before .. NOBODY here is doing me any favors, paying my bills, etc. I am not "standing by Norman". DO NOT say that because I tell you there are others that I am defending anyone. I'm not deflecting anything. I'm keeping you focused on the big picture. This does not begin and end with Matrix. There is more then one company giving out information. It's been PROVEN that others have received letters addressed to affiliate data that have NEVER signed up with Matrix.

Don't think that if Matrix goes out of business that the problem is solved and everyone is happy.

__________________

Mr.Fiction

KRL

That would be nice to see, however there are far too many people who have received letters with address info matching and unique to the one they gave Matrix.

To be honest, I don't think Norman knowingly released info. But you never know if one of his employees might have unwittingly or for money.

Got to remember the money trail. It always is the source of the evil doers. Acacia has millions at stake here. When there is that much money on the table people don't always make wise decisions to accomplish their objectives.

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makefuckingmoney

Did you see the screenshots of some of these misspells that people are getting their documents sent to?

oy..think what you want..its a free country..and I will have my own opinion..

I wonder if matrix bought stock in acacia like other settled company's did?? Can anyone from matrix answer that? Or no?

hmmm

With the FTC now involved.. this whole pump and dump scandal should get even better..

Just hypothetically thinking, If you settled with Acacia and then also bought stock in the company, would you want them to go after more webmasters or less?

Especially if say your business was down?

Of course this is ALL hypothetical...

reasonableness

You can:

1. Answer the questions posted earlier.

2. Tell us to what law enforcement agency you have reported these thefts.

We're not asking you to throw your employees under your bus, like I believe you threw us, the others in the industry, under the bus named ACACIA.

People have HELPED YOU PROVE IT WAS YOUR LIST. now what?

Answer the questions and use the evidence you've been given to help find Nicole's real killer, I mean get to the bottom of this issue.

As for making accusations, you've been doing a fair bit of that lately, so maybe you can invest your time and energies into getting to the bottom of this issue instead of attacking those who provide information.

You owe that twerp LilRich2U an apology for your emotional outbursts.

Bladewire

"...very few people called?" before you said " Not one of my accusers from this board called."

I'm confused.

__________________

KRL

Yes, obviously there was an original list used also. But this last blitz all has MC connections.

Again, I can not fathom MC intentionally handing over there DB. We need to find out more info on this disgruntled employee Norm just mentioned in his post.

Did he have access to the DB?

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reasonableness

I did not mean to attack you, however you seem focused on saying who ELSE appears to be guilty, as opposed to the issue at hand.

I'll take your response as a denial that you are Norman's prettyboy, and that you are not being paid to post.

NOTE: I mistyped above, meant to say NOT norman's pretty boy, but I did mistype and my logic is fucked, so I'm taking a time out.

Fair enough.

I deeply agree with you that this problem goes far deeper that Matrix Content's alleged actions.

I think People should help support the defense group of 11, and I think people should not patronize those collaborationists who have settled with Acacia.

Please accept my apology for hurting your feelings.

I'll try to live up to the standards of GFY professionalism in the future.

Squirtit - you are my new best friend, and I'm sorry for being unkind.

Bladewire

Again.. it doesn't begin and end with Matrix my friend. Many people have come forward in other threads that have said they've never bought from matrix and gotten affiliate addressed packets.

Ok.. so we have all the info in this thread on Matrix.... now what?
What about the others? Let all the companies that sold info go free?

__________________

Bladewire

smartass

__________________

KRL

Like I've said in other posts, you're a fool in business if you think anyone is going to take care of your interests before they take care of theirs.

The industry now is every man for himself.

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reasonableness

We must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang seperately.
Benjamin Franklin

You, sir, are a fool, if you think you can survive without allies.

Bladewire

Well I see it differently. I see people on GFY, and other boards, coming together to find a solution. The little guy has a lot more spunk and drive then we're given credit for. We can move faster then a big company, dig farther then patent researchers, and hit harder then a big law firm. Why? Because we personally have more at stake then a big corporation or lawfirm.

We feed ouselves and our families on what we do and will fight tooth and nail to protect that. Those who challenge us and sell us out are just beginning to see what we as a community can do.

__________________

theking

QUESTION...Assuming that Matrix or any other company has a database of clients...is it not their database to do with as they choose. Is there any criminal or civil liabilty for giving and/or selling the database to whom ever you choose?

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Mr.Fiction

Companies have been fined big money by the government for sharing customer data without the consent of the customers.

If they are in California, it could be even worse!

reasonableness

Here's how I think about this question.

#1 I wonder WHAT POLICY does NLB and Matrix CONTENT have for disclosing their list? And why won't he tell us?

I think this may not be a legal issue, but it sure as skittles is at issue in the court of GFY and customer opinion.

#2 I think that unless an entity has posted a privacy policy and specifically violated that privacy policy, there is no breach of contract.

HOWEVER::::

I think that the entity that disclosed information MAY WELL be liable for any damages that occur as a result of that.

If Bertha loans me her wallet, and I show her driver's license to BUBBA and he rapes her, juries might find me liable.

That's what I think.

But I also use chuck taylors to catch fish in the reflection pool.

Bladewire

I guess that would depend upon the customer agreement, if any.

It's been said that a lot of the big guys swap their lists. Lists are a valuable thing worth big money.

How many webmasters have swapped customers lists as part of a deal?

__________________

KRL

Have to research it, but in healthcare its nice and nasty.

2. Civil Sanctions

The U.S. HHS may impose civil fines of up to $100 per violation not to exceed a total of $25,000 per person per year for a negligent violation of a single standard.

UnderCalifornia law, any patient may bring a civil action against a person or entity who negligently releases confidential information in violation of the Confidentiality of Medical Information Act. In addition, the person or entity may be assessed an administrative fine or civil penalty not to exceed:

a. $2,500 per negligent violation;

b. $25,000 per willful or knowing violation; and

c. $250,000 per willful or knowing violations if the information was used for financial gain.

3. Criminal Sanctions

HHS may make a criminal referral to the U.S. Department of Justice to prosecute a person who knowingly violated a requirement set forth in the Privacy Rule. The potential criminal penalties are as follows:

a. If the person is convicted of violating a requirement set forth in the Privacy Rule with the intent to sell, transfer, or use Individually Identifiable Health Information for commercial advantage, personal gain or malicious harm, a court may impose a criminal penalty of fines of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to ten years.

b. If the person is convicted of violating a requirement set forth in the Privacy Rule under false pretenses, a court may impose a criminal penalty of fines of up to $100,000 and/or imprisonment for up to five years; and

c. If the person knowingly commits and is convicted of a violation of the Privacy Rule (other than under the specific circumstances in paragraphs a and b above), the person may be fined up to $50,000 and/or imprisoned for up to one year.

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Bladewire

Instead of this speculating.. TAKE ACTION people!

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=191252

Get some answers in writing from the people involved. Read more at the post above.

__________________

Mr.Fiction

Also, Matrix says they did not give Acacia permission to use the list.

So, if it is true that Acacia is using it, and if what Matrix says is true, wouldn't it seem that they are using it illegally?

onlymovies

You guys should keep in mind that aside from this Matrix issue, i'm sure that Acacia has their OWN guys doing research to find companies to mail out their packets to as well. I highly doubt that they would take 'someones' database, use that, and call it a day.

Just because someone received a packet that wasn't from the Matrix database, doesn't mean anything...and it doesn't mean someone else 'sold them out.' Is it possible though? Sure. But it's also possible that one of Acacia's employees who's assigned to find companies to mail packets to, happened to find you.

Ofcourse I believe it's always good to question the possibilities of where Acacia may have got/received your information from. But again, keep in mind that you know they have their own people searching for you as well. Some leads are going to be untraceable, while some are probably from a simple whois lookup. Other ways? Well...who knows.

The question here is the Matrix issue. Or is this still in question? It's truly scary the of the amount of people that received packets that can only have come from the Matrix database; per those peoples claims.

Is there a straight answer yet on the Matrix database?

theking

Are you saying that it is a State criminal offense and/or a Federal criminal offense?

If so what do you base your info upon?

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reasonableness

http://oryza.com/asia/hongkong/index.shtml

KRL

California Civil Code § 1798.82 ? New Duties to Disclose A "Security Breach"

California has revised its business laws to require notification of customers if a "security breach" leads to the disclosure of customers' personal data. The new law is codified as an amendment to California Civil Code § 1798.82 and takes effect on July 1, 2003. It applies to any person or business that conducts business in California if the entity possesses "computerized ... personal information." If a "breach of the security system" occurs, defined as any unauthorized acquisition of personal data, the business must inform affected persons "immediately" unless law enforcement requests a delay. Consumers have a private right of action under the law for injunctive and civil damages relief, but no specific monetary penalties are suggested.

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Bladewire

Based on the information provided I'd make my own decision. ASSUMING the Matrix data did reach Acacia.. HOW it got there is crutial to what action should be taken. Without more information... I would take no action.. not until the HomeGrown VS Acacia suit is done. It's to early... WAY to early.. a court date hasn't been set yet and much more shocking information will come out. This is just the beginning. Save judgement until a later date, keep notes and stay informed. I say that regarding Matrix and the other people that haven't used Matrix and got packets. It's more then one company.

__________________

theking

I suppose a simple phone call to the local DA office will inform one if it is a criminal act to give or sell a clients personal information to another entity.

If it is a criminal violation then those with "100% proof" can file criminal charges with the DA.

If it is a civil violation and subject to civil fines and or a punitivive damage award...or real damage award then those with "100% proof" can have their attorney file a civil case.

A call to a DA and/or a call to your attorney can provide the answer.

Or is it just more fun to mouth off on a BB?

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pornJester

Can I get the Cliffs Notes for this thread?

I did receive the letter with identical info as I'm registered for Matrix with btw.

So how are we dealing with this?

__________________


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