The Amiga Video Toaster was able to do this.

very interesting.. now if you can find evidence of the fact that a video file created with this software was stored on a BBS, and people were able to download it to view it, even if only from inside this application, then you may have found something.

I;d say to work this one.


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Since I been digging forever now, see my ancient thread on gfy about bbs's. I have yet to stop digging. Anyone want a basic complete history dating well back beyond the scope of any of the dates posted so far? Includes who did what and when. Most of it was not intended for such a limited idea as streaming videos, they had something much greater master plan. By the way these people had complete forsite, working examples, and well can still be contacted today.

Want an idea of the foresight these people had?

"It is my belief that computer and media technology will continue to have an increasingly profound effect on everyone on the planet... and if artists don't jump in and proactively help shape these powerful new tools, it will be left by default to advertisers, the military, organized religion, and sex peddlers." - 1979

Can not say he was wrong can we?

man, your arms must be as tired as mine from all this digging :)


While a history lesson would be great, the problem is that we have a short attention span here.. so i'lll just provide a quick history.

Digital audio and video... Good!

Existed before Acacia's patent... Good!

Acacia.... bad!




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Somewhere between 88 and 90

http://personal.southern.edu/~dascott/lwhistory/

Just follow this time line for Multi Media.

Click here

Interesting...

Then maybe, just maybe contact Alan Kay. I think he still works at HP labs. Was one of the original founders of Xerox PARC labs, may have heard of them. Around 69

Chief scientist at Atari 81-84, 84-96 was over at Apple, later went on to Disney imaging labs, then over to HP.

Umm...

I guess....

I think I explained pretty clearly to you up front that we already had the Pandora material and more which I really have no intention of discussing in a public forum.

I was not shocked, but I was excited that you were looking in the rigth direction. It was almost a year ago that we went over that stuff, so chalk my enthusiasm up to simple enjoyment, not shock or excitement.

I really don't want to steal the thunder from your accomplishment and this is the type of Prior Art we want too. I have told you in private that we would be happy to discuss working with you more closely and focusing your efforts, similar to the way we are happy to consult with Brandon.

You guys are doing tremendously helpful things and every webmaster watching this issue should be grateful for your efforts.

I want money
lots and lots of money
i want the pie in the sky

One of the main reasons Acacia went after us is because of the belief that we are disorganized as a whole.

When we work together, amazing things happen -as this thread proves.

When we attack each other and begin to pick each other apart, we promote the disorganized stereotype. Cynicism and criticism are healthy but so is unity.

:2 cents:

Maybe you should do what Brandon does and catalog the prior art you've already uncovered so that a lot of people don't have to waste their freekin time finding something you've already got.

As someone said, prior art is prior art, so if you wind up giving Acacia a heads up before it's formally introduced, so what? They'll find out about it in discovery anyway if they didn't know about it before.

I agree, but i hope this doesn't turn out to be like the adult industry version of the Lord of Flies, where you have IMPA in one camp, and FTPF in another...

Already have some people trying to make it look that way.

IMPA and Fight the Patent Foundation ("FTPF") have a great synergy, and we are very different in our scope.

IMPA is an association looking after a much broader range of issues for adult webmasters, one that has a membership structure with dues, etc.

Other Adult Industry organizations are ASACP, FSC, and IFA.

FTPF is narrowly focused on patents and their impact on business when it's a bad patent. FTPF is not an adult industry organization, but rather focuses on patent abuse cases for all websites and webmasters.



There can still be unity by having diversity, just not adversity.


(hey, sounds like a great line to use on a hallmark card.)


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I wish that were possible but it is not. There are things that we are doing that Brandon cannot do and there are things Brandon can but that we cannot do. Herein, lies part of the synergy of our working together.

Yup, i can't be more proactive in the fight against patent abuse because i don't have any $$$.

But, if a whole bunch of webmasters came together to pledge $100... there is a whole heck of alot i can do besides searching for prior art, sending emails, and posting messages on the message boards.


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You just sent me email saying you've never seen this video?

That's all I'm saying. We are united on this and it isn't a pissing contest.

People.... keep up the searches for prior art.. there is more that us computer minded webmasters can do when we put our minds to it then any patent research company. Our motivation is self preservation.

Keep on searching and keep posting your leads here!! Good work!

We are all united on this and the search continues to find prior art.. the more the better!

Keep searching and posting :thumbsup

:thumbsup :GFYBand

New area to search... i haven't updated my web page yet:

Articles in popular magazines like Scientific American, computer mags, etc.,. that were pubished before 1990, that talk about the future coming soon.. watching videos on demand, digital music to be downloaded from computers, convergence of entertainment and computers, etc.

These articles are not really prior art, but serve a purpose of showing to the court that there was a spirit of innovation going on before 1990 that was describing all the stuff that Acacia's patent describes..along with solid prior art audio or video, this is what nails the coffin in.

So, search out for articles that talk about this, and post it or email it to me.

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I personally don't think it would matter because before any evidence can be used in a court of law it has to be presented to both sides (defendant as well as the prosecution side), so they would have known about it before court anyone I do believe:(

Just my :2 cents: ...

I have to start off by saying I am not on Acacia's side and everyone of you should know that by now, but I do have some wondering to do about the prior art finds (which is by the way a great job dude, keep it up).

Ok I watched both videos that were pasted here and I all I could find in them was that someone created a technology to send live video, compressed video and video emails through atm rings and networking, I could not find any claim in either video that they were sending compressed video through teh internet which is exactly waht Acacia claims in their patent is the delivery of and streaming of compressed video by way of the internet, technically an inhouse network is not the internet.

I truely hope I am wrong about this and if I am please someone point it out because I would love nothing more then to see Acacia suck on monkey nuts, but I could not find any reason in either video to invalidate their patent.

Maybe Brandon or Far-L has a better point on this then me but I was just pointing out waht I seen in the videos, hopefully someone can prove me wrong and in a hurry:)

I have not seen the entire video, and it has been almost a year since Pandora has been a focal point for us, but that is not pertinent.

The main point is that it is only one piece of a large puzzle. Brandon makes excellent recommendations for where to keep looking.

Even if people find something that we already have, they may be finding additional elements to that part which help the whole. For that reason, and many others, I tip my hat to Squirtit and Brandon for such great help!

Read their patents http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/uspatents_all.htm

Here is a synapses out of their patent..it is NOT the complete patent but gives an overview:

19. A distribution method responsive to requests from a user identifying items in a transmission system containing information to be sent from the transmission system to receiving systems at remote locations, the method comprising the steps of:

storing, in the transmission system, information from items in a compressed data form, the information including an identification code and being placed into ordered data blocks;

sending a request, by the user to the transmission system, for at least a part of the stored information to be transmitted to the one of the receiving systems at one of the remote location selected by the user;

sending at least a portion of the stored information from the transmission system to the receiving system at the selected remote location;

receiving the sent information by the receiving system at the selected remote location;

storing a complete copy of the received information in the receiving system at the selected remote location; and

playing back the stored copy of the information using the receiving system at the selected remote location at a time requested by the user.

If you do a search in their patent the word INTERNET is not listed at all. This patent is very vague. Internet would be the "receiving system" in the patent.

Contribute and look for prior art ( before 1990 ) that covers the above issues!! We can do this!

Backhanded compliments suck! :glugglug Now you've gone from never seeing it to not seeing all of it over a year ago?

I know that the spin on the boards exists for a reason :thumbsup

When you win this don't forget those that stood by you! Many have left your side.. but many are still here fighting with you :)

Thats right. They were huge thick laptop "live remote" video production systems.

Sorry was going on a post earlier in this thread by Brandon that said webserver which would mean connected to the internet, I am searching my ass off, I played with bbs a little back in 89-90 but did not have my own pc at that time while doing so, I am trying to hunt down an old buddy who did bbs in his sleep as far back as the early 80's, this dude stored everythign he could download anywhere he could store it, if I can locate him I am sure he would have enough on cd rom or something to fuck acacia's day up.

You are on the right track! Keep sniffing and you'll get it. Prior art does exist.. and our mission is to find more. Good job!

Live feed is not covered by their patent.. but live feed that was saved over the network and played back would be great!

Go get 'em and keep this up!

has anyone seen this?

http://www.aco.ee/files/fido/fidospec-size.html

scroll through slowly.. look for

Avatar an acronym for Advanced Video Attribute Terminal Assembler & Recreator

its an old bbs file from 1988

i was never into bbs so i really dont even know what its about

also what about this book? amiga's IFF Video Files

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...028091-0923068

No disrespect, thanks for everything!

I've forwarded this to Brandon.. keep up the good work. You are on the right track! Video files that can, or have, been transmitted online or via BBS ..... excellent!

Excellent suggestion! But I disagree with your view that what might be found in the popular literature wouldn't be considered prior art.

For instance, if a (say) Byte magazine article concerned itself with the future of desk top publishing and just happened to have a paragraph that described how someday it would be possible to digitize and compress video, then store it in a central library for others to later download; that would essentially describe the Acacia "DMT patents". And it would be just as valid as if it had been published in an ACM publication that foresaw the same thing.

What matters is not an implementation of the invention, but a complete enough description of it published before the filing of patent(s). That follows naturally when you realize that the filers of the patent had not, themselves, implemented the process they describe.

I have sent an email to MTV (Music Television) about exsisting prior art. I am sure if prior art exsisted in the form of video it would definately be in the archives of MTV since they have doing music videos since 1981, lets hope this will lead somewhewre and they can provide some help in the issue. I CC'd Brandon at FTPF on the email too.

Excellent lead! Great idea to email or ICQ Brandon everything.

Keep going! :thumbsup

http://www.msg.net/utility/whirlgif/gif87.html#app3

information on 89a specs on top , Hope this helps some if not sorry to bug ya;s . going back to my hole now ;-)

APPENDIX D - Multiple Image Processing [TOC]
Since a GIF data stream can contain multiple images, it is necessary to describe processing and display of such a file. Because the image descriptor allows for placement of the image within the logical screen, it is possible to define a sequence of images that may each be a partial screen, but in total fill the entire screen. The guidelines for handling the multiple image situation are:


There is no pause between images. Each is processed immediately as seen by the decoder.
Each image explicitly overwrites any image already on the screen inside of its window. The only screen clears are at the beginning and end of the GIF image process. See discussion on the GIF terminator.

well thats compressed video since gif is a compression format.

Thank you! I've forwarded this to Brandon at FTP :)

Yeah the Gif89 stuff is great! One of you focus on Gif89.. the other on streaming video.

Good job! :thumbsup

So it did exist! Any info you can find anywhere on it?



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Gif89 could be considered to be like "video" .. .crude, but still possible to show the level of technology back then was heading in the video direction.

While the GIF89 specification does give the ability to make a "video like" GIF file, what is needed is an actual GIF89 file that used digitized images (from a camera) that were looped together to make the video effect.

In addition, need to find proof that this GIF89 image was made available for download prior to 1990... a BBS log or CDROM archive would help to validate the file.

Great digging!


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