Canada is a great country, If ever I had to move from the US--i'd move to Canada. Good review, Sleazy. Well composed.

It is not that weak...because it is difficult for users of drugs...including those that use pot...to find employment...thus they resort to crime...in order to survive. I suspect this applies to pot users on a lesser scale than for those that use hardcore drugs...but they are still part of the mix.

so you're saying the real problem is drug testing then.. Otherwise the 90% of people who only socially use drugs but would still show up on a test would be able to find a job.

ps reply to my thread.

Sleazy. . . I think that review was fair and honest to what you know to be true... but I suggest you read this book. Its written by a statistician and economist John Lott.

MORE GUNS, LESS CRIME

It was published a few years ago. It will open your eyes as its the only work of its kind. No philosophical mumbo jumbo. Just facts. Statistics.

The conclusion of the work is obviously the title of it.

if i lived in the country, i might consider buying a gun. i'd use it to take care of the occasional rattlesnake or rabid animal.

other than that. nope. no gun. not ever.

Drug testing is a definite problem for those that are seeking employment.

some just believe in the right to take away another persons life when the circumstances makes it legal to do so (a break-in etc.).
they would do it cuz they can. i dont think u can make those people give up on guns, guns that are specifically designed to kill other human beings.

no they don't Spunky.. where are you getting your info from, Sean Hannity or something?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/...-1&id=nz&id=us

New Zealand, like the USA,
is a democratic english-speaking mostly-christian country.

You are 5 times more likely to be murdered in the USA,
where there are few restrictions on purchasing handguns,
than in New Zealand where there are heavier restrictions.

People in NZ still own guns, mostly shotguns and rifles,
for hunting and home protection (despite few home invasions);
the difference is you can't carry a rifle around 24/7
concealed under your coat ready for your next arguement.
:BangBang:

NZ also has 1/3rd fewer rapes, and 2/3 fewer robberies.
(per capita)
Interestingly, NZ still has almost as many assaults as the US.
Proving that people are no less violent :winkwink: only that violence is
less likely to result in death, due to fewer guns. Guys end up
drinking at the pub after a fight, instead of dead / in jail.

no blacks, no mexicans. silly pinkos

The fact that many major cities is in the US have a population alone equal to or greater than the entire NZ population might contribute to that. No doubt if you have more people living in a concentrated area, you are bound to have more crime committed.

So you know, Australia has banned just about every gun in the world. Unless you want a little water pistol you are out of luck. Since undertaking the 'Gun Buyback Scheme' violent crime, murders and shootings have increased.

it's harder to kill someone with a knife.

japan has much more dense population than the US, and much much less crime..

I think the lack of US social structure probably has something to do with it.. people at the fringes aren't cared for as much as they are in other countries.. That's a price the US has decided to pay for it's economic dominance perhaps? only a theory anyway.

NZ has plenty of polynesians, and maori who cause a disproportionate amount of violent crime.

That's why per-capita statistics (such as those I posted) are important,
to balance the population factor. (# of crimes per 1000 people)
And houses in Auckland are built no futher apart than houses in Phoenix. :winkwink:


Exactly. If you are going to kill someone, don't be a pussy and do it from 15 feet away. Murder is personal. Act like it. Take responsibility. Get up close and be a part of it. Accept some risk. Otherwise, you're not ready for it.

Ohio is WAYYYY colder than where I live in Canada..........

"He who has two shirts should give one to he who has none". (The Bible)

Yes, but a greater percentage of those 1000 people you are comparing (in the US) would be sitauated in more densly populated areas.

UK is about as densely populated as the US, if not more.

Well perhaps the UK could be used as a comparison, I don't know. However, the differences between the US and NZ are great enough (in my opinion) to make it unwise to compare.

100 dead kids

Guns don't kill innocent people....Stupid people kill innocent people.

The fact is that guns aren't going to disappear, nor will stupid people. When a stupid person has a weapon, they think they own the world. Unfortunately this is true as seen by our "leaders" in all nations. They'd rather fight using pawns then get in the ring with each other and establish true dominance. Firepower and currency have dropped our IQ's and strength as a whole.

If this world were ideal, we'd fight for dominance like real animals do. It's too bad we're the dumbest species on the planet. We let pre fabricated weapons kill instead of our fists. This world will never be an ideal world, and our "leaders" will kill us off long before our time is due. If you don't know this by now, you'd better realize it... Or not

Life is all porn, money, cars, weed and bitches! Bling Bling! :thumbsup

Even if that were true, why do you think population density matters when comparing countrys per-capita crime rates?
As someone already pointed out, using Japan as an example, higher density != higher crime rates.

It's statistically impossible to argue with the fact that the types of weapons available to the population affects the relative crime rate much more than density of that population.
Density may increase murders a little.. it's a sensible enough assumption.. but teenagers with easy access to semi-automatics will increase the murder rate a lot more. :ak47:

I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping a shotgun under the bed. It's enough to get the job done if you have an unwelcome visitor. People who feel they need / should be allowed to carry concealable weapons capable of killing many people very quickly have issues.

I still don't see why this
http://www.stressmedia.com/andy_gun.jpg
is any less silly than this
http://www.ai.mit.edu/lab/olympics/9...ator/sword.jpg

Moore's thesis is very weak and unsupported by evidence. He's more of a comedian than a sociologist or criminologist. I'm very surprised at people who take Michael Moore seriously. Would you take Chris Rock seriously if he wrote a book called "Stupid Black Men" just because you share similar political views?

Consider that the US homicide rate is at a 30 year low. Arguably, that has happened precisely during the time when media has most increased fear and loathing.

The 2000 US homicide rate was 6.1/100k, the lowest since 5.9 in 1966 and the same as 6.1 in 1913. In 90 years the homicide rate in the US is unchanged.

How does this at all support Moore's contention that media and government spread fear and cause high homicide rates?

Seems to me that the answer to the question of why the US has a high homicide rate compared to many other nations has roots in the first decade of the twentieth century much more than the last. In 1903 the US homicide rate was 1.2 per 100,000. Just four years later it was 4.9 per 100,000 in 1907. Why? It's never looked back (well, it's back to 1913 actually)

he doesn't say the US has high homicide rates. He says the US has comparitively high GUN homicide rates.

stupid person with gun = dead innocent person
stupid person with knife/bat = sore possibly dead innocent person

So you're saying that Moore's thesis is that fear created by government and media influences people to kill each other with guns but not with other weapons?

I want one of these:
http://www.ozarkmtns.com/less-lethal/distract.htm

I was just pointing out that the US doesn't have particularly high homicde rates.. it is when you separate out how people kill each other that the "gun homicide" rate is enormous when compared to similar countries.

Moore is more intelligent than most of the right wing idiots who publish books these days. Just because he has a sense of humor doesn't mean he's not to be taken seriously at all.

Do you take Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, George W. Bush, or Sean Hannity seriously?

I doubt any of them could stand up to Michael Moore in a debate.

You're wrong. The US has the sixth highest homicide rate in the world ahead of all those "similar countries". "particularly high" one should say.

You should be embarrassed.

Michael Moore is no more "intelligent" than any of the conservative commentators you mentioned. Not one bit. You just have an emotional attachment to him because your views coincide. That's all.

The mindless right quote Rush Limbaugh and the mindless left quote Michael Moore. There is no difference.

Michael Moore makes claims and backs them up with anecdotal evidence. That's called pseudo-science. It's no different than the people who believe in ESP because they once had a feeling a friend of theirs was going to call and then the telephone rang.

heh no i'm not :).. If you compare the stats the US has a *slightly* higher homicde rate than most similar countries, but when you do 'gun homicides' the magnitude higher is approaching 10X..

Try again Colin, but i'm going to sleep.

The USA has an exceptionally high homicide rate.
The rest of the civilized world finds it pretty crazy,
that such a rich country can't get crime under control.

I know GFY'rs hate clicking on links,
but for the purposes of debate you've
really got to check out the stats here:

pretty graph
(great site.. can compare countries in all sorts of categorys)

this is purely per-capita. murders per 1000 people.
guns, knives, pointy-sticks, whatever... total.

wow. this is also really fucked up.

US prison population VS other countrys

Where we live we only lock the door at night to keep the drunk teenagers from wandering in by accident or something. Sure, we lock our door when we go out, but we also have a lot of computer/stereo equipment, and the kids around here aren't dumb. However, the REAL chances of us getting robbed are slim to none. In a community like this, everybody knows everybody. You couldn't steal something and keep it secret for long.

And as for guns, everyone and their fool has guns up here. But I'd be more worried about them shooting their own foot off or taking a potshot at someone's dog than I would of them using it to threaten me and my family in any way.

:thumbsup

My favorite part of the movie is where the idiot is harrassing Dick Clark with nonsense about how this poor woman was "forced to work!" How was she "forced" to work? When the voters of Michigan said they would no longer pay her for having kids?
Or when MM gravely intones that this woman worked up to 75 hours a week and still could not pay her rent. Please. Put down the pipe, bitch and pay the fucking rent.
Or how he forgot to mention that her brother's house in which she was "forced" to live was also the neighborhood crackhouse, shut down days after the shooting to the applause and cheers of neighbors? Or that the gun the child used to kill the other student was a stolen hand gun? MM would have liked to have you believe it was the legally purchased firearm of an NRA member.


And if someone where to write a book about the problems in the black community and call it "Stupid Black Men" what would the lefty reaction be, I wonder?


I support tighter control on guns but MM is a fucking idiot blowhard. Just like Rush.

Substitute Bush's name for anyone in the world, including your own, and you can make the same claim.

Your right wing rhetoric is weak tonight. Too much Limbaugh for you. :)

Geeze - does it really matter HOW you die? If the US has 1000 deaths per 100,000 people and so does, say, some country where they don't allow guns, I'll promise you those 1000 people are JUST as dead even though they weren't killed with a gun. :thumbsup

Again, Japan is not a country which can be compared to the US. For a number of reasons Japan is still vastly different from the United States.

The fact that it is almost 100% homogenous (something which creates a sense of community) in my opinion, is one reason why crime rates can be expected to be lower in Japan.