Who is as good as Rackshack? - GoFuckYourself.com

TheSaint · 09-06-2003, 09:27 PM

I love Rackshack. At 17,000 servers and growing fast, they may be the only hosting company im business in a few years.

Must as I like them though, I am looking for a similar host to help with disaster planning. I want to be able to diversify onto non-RS servers in case the state of Texas sinks into the ocean or something.

I've heard there are other hosts as good as them, but I'm skeptical.

My requirements are:

1. Unmanaged. I don't want anybody messing with my server, thank you very much.

2. Price similar to RS (< $130 for 700 gig dedicated, $250 for dual xenon 1200 gig).

3. Very good bandwith, no cogent.

4. Good around the clock support for a reboot or hardware failure, or an image restore.

5. A real company -corporate address, phone numbers, etc.

6. Prefer another large host like RS.

7. Diverse network with many carriers.

8. Must offer RedHat.

Be interested to hear if they have been copied with any sucess.

p00p · 09-06-2003, 09:30 PM

Bring on the spammers!

mrthumbs · 09-06-2003, 09:31 PM

the alertnative youll find will probably be a RS reseller

VirtuMike · 09-07-2003, 03:25 AM

HAHAHA who is as good as rackshack?

Give me two coffee cans, a string, a typewriter, and a stick of Doublemint and I'll have a server facility faster and more reliable than those morons. Give me some duct tape and three Burger King fry cooks and I'd have better tech support too.

Get a real provider this time. We use Webair.

reynold · 09-07-2003, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirtuMike
HAHAHA who is as good as rackshack?

Give me two coffee cans, a string, a typewriter, and a stick of Doublemint and I'll have a server facility faster and more reliable than those morons. Give me some duct tape and three Burger King fry cooks and I'd have better tech support too.

Get a real provider this time. We use Webair.

RS is excellent as long as you know how to handle a server

Dreamman010 · 09-07-2003, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reynold

RS is excellent as long as you know how to handle a server

Yep. One of my servers on RS:

6:28am up 156 days, 6:12, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00

RS

xl11 · 09-07-2003, 03:46 AM

What about dynamichosting.com?

http · 09-07-2003, 03:51 AM

http://www.cyberwurx.com/

Wilbo · 09-07-2003, 04:33 AM

Never used them, but they look cheap also
http://www.servermatrix.com/

Oracle Porn · 09-07-2003, 04:37 AM

http://www.likewhoa.com

imJason · 09-07-2003, 04:39 AM

Swiftwill.com

IMP^or^SNiTL.e · 09-07-2003, 04:39 AM

hey Saint man
hook me up on icq 78890275
msn [email protected]

or ill cya on irc

or pm me man on any of the boards where on

hehehe

Chris · 09-07-2003, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oracle Porn
http://www.likewhoa.com

Arty · 09-07-2003, 04:45 AM

Jupiter Hosting

One word "PERFECT!"

Hit me up @ icq if you need details..

Poppy · 09-07-2003, 07:41 AM

TheSaint,

We meet all of your requirements plus more at Jupiter Hosting

Please hit me up on ICQ to discuss.

Poppy

Gel · 09-07-2003, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by poppy
TheSaint,

We meet all of your requirements plus more at Jupiter Hosting

Please hit me up on ICQ to discuss.

Poppy

What about the price?

According to your site the closest you offer to a standard RS set up is $179 per Month for 300 gigs.

That's more $50 higher than RS for less than half to gigs.

What do charge for overages?

keyDet79 · 09-07-2003, 12:09 PM

Hi TheSaint, what you are looking for is VibeHosting.com (seriously), with high bandwidth servers (2000GB+) we are pretty much unbeatable even by rackshack, with any system. Bandwidth is multihomed, primarily Global Crossing, servers can be upgraded/downgraded (hardware and bandwidth) at any time you want. All servers are on 100mbit burstable ports unless you prefer a cap. Our P4/Xeons are a bit more expensive but you do get 2.4's and not the old 2.0's.

Servers are housed in eXchange colo, one of the largest and best datacenters.

Hit me up for more information or custom plans, we can even provide you with much better support since our servers are semi-managed. ICQ 51034232, MSN [email protected], Email [email protected]

09-07-2003, 03:57 PM

See SIG

TheSaint · 09-07-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wilbo
Never used them, but they look cheap also
http://www.servermatrix.com/

$79 for a 700GB managed 1.4 dedicated celly server??? WTF? Thats insane.

I ordered one as a test, its only for disaster recovery anyway, really a file cabinet.

Looks like those guys (a division of thePlanet) have been copying the RS formula all the way, right down to the data center web cam, forums, and listing how many of each server is available to entice wavering customers to snap them up.

Thanks to the rest but I am just naturally cheap.

So far I have noticed two strange things in the adult industry:

1. The higher the conversion rate that a sponser claims, the lower it actually is.

2. The cheaper a dedicated server is, the higher the uptime is.

fletcher · 09-07-2003, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSaint

$79 for a 700GB managed 1.4 dedicated celly server??? WTF? Thats insane.

I ordered one as a test, its only for disaster recovery anyway, really a file cabinet.

Looks like those guys (a division of thePlanet) have been copying the RS formula all the way, right down to the data center web cam, forums, and listing how many of each server is available to entice wavering customers to snap them up.

Thanks to the rest but I am just naturally cheap.

So far I have noticed two strange things in the adult industry:

1. The higher the conversion rate that a sponser claims, the lower it actually is.

2. The cheaper a dedicated server is, the higher the uptime is.

Interesting...I used to have a private data suite with The Planet. Good stuff

They have a nice facility.

biporn · 09-07-2003, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyDet79
Hi TheSaint, what you are looking for is VibeHosting.com (seriously), with high bandwidth servers (2000GB+) we are pretty much unbeatable even by rackshack, with any system. Bandwidth is multihomed, primarily Global Crossing, servers can be upgraded/downgraded (hardware and bandwidth) at any time you want. All servers are on 100mbit burstable ports unless you prefer a cap. Our P4/Xeons are a bit more expensive but you do get 2.4's and not the old 2.0's.

Servers are housed in eXchange colo, one of the largest and best datacenters.

Hit me up for more information or custom plans, we can even provide you with much better support since our servers are semi-managed. ICQ 51034232, MSN [email protected], Email [email protected]

What are you a fucking moron?
He clearly said he wants no cogent bandwidth...
You allways come up on cogent. So dont go bullshiting that its only a backup. Your on cogent.
Here is another trace for you
9 0 10 10 154.54.2.189 p11-0.core01.dfw01.atlas.cogentco.com
10 0 0 0 66.28.4.26 p15-0.core02.dfw01.atlas.cogentco.com
11 51 50 50 66.28.4.134 p5-0.core02.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com
12 40 50 50 66.28.4.69 p15-0.core01.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com
13 50 50 40 66.28.20.226 comprage-engineering.demarc.cogentco.com

sexyavs · 09-07-2003, 08:10 PM

National Net was running some 10mb's servers for a while.. I dont know if they still do..but they manage them 100%..

You wont find as good a price anywhere else.. especially for the server power you are getting..

Chris

Shoplifter · 09-07-2003, 09:02 PM

Rackshack is unbeatable pricewise and as it has been said so many times if you know what you are doing with Redhat you will have no problems.

Their support and abuse policies can be troubling tho. If you get DOS'd you will get unplugged. There will be no attempt to resolve the problem to preserve your service. And if you have a big popular site you will certainly have someone eventually take a crack at you.

I use them for low value services and put the mission critical elsewhere.

TheSaint · 09-07-2003, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shoplifter
Rackshack is unbeatable pricewise and as it has been said so many times if you know what you are doing with Redhat you will have no problems.

Their support and abuse policies can be troubling tho. If you get DOS'd you will get unplugged. There will be no attempt to resolve the problem to preserve your service. And if you have a big popular site you will certainly have someone eventually take a crack at you.

I use them for low value services and put the mission critical elsewhere.

Yeah, that is partly what I am worried about. Too many horror stories in their forum about servers being unplugged.

In their defence, a lot of those stories have another side to them, the webmaster turned out to be so lazy and complacent that they really brought it on themselves. And the one time I had an issue with a server way back (a spammer was sending cp through my server) their abuse department was remarkably understanding and gave me time to clean it.

Still, even with a bunch of dual xenons there I am just a number, you probably have to have 50 boxes to get really personal attention there.

On the other hand, 400 days of uptime and 12 minutes down, not bad at all.

mike503 · 09-07-2003, 09:34 PM

hit me up.

we'll give near rackshack prices for the same kind of stuff. higher quality bandwidth and on-site support as well... and still give you complete breathing room for what you want to do.

also since it's not cookie-cutter like RS, you can expand and do multiple servers, or server clusters, whatever you want to do.

i started with rackshack as well, but grew out of them. they were good for the price.

BiffTannen · 09-07-2003, 11:26 PM

viva la

Carrie · 09-07-2003, 11:49 PM

I've been unplugged at RS - and I am still with them. Been with them for years.
Check the forums there, you'll see where I was bitching out the techs because they demanded a restore on my box for chkrootkit coming up positive on TCP 465 (which it always does on a Linux box running any type of firewall).
Happened twice - second time I said fuck it and locked the bitch down so hard there's only specific ports that data can go *out* of.

Other than that, they've been fantastic, and this is coming from a woman who's been called "the biggest bitch on the face of the earth" by their CEO on the phone. ;)

Most of you guys spamming your services need to read the original post - "price similar to RS"... not 3 times as much for half the alloted BW.

RS is slowly but surely taking over the hosting world, hehe.

Carrie · 09-07-2003, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSaint
Still, even with a bunch of dual xenons there I am just a number, you probably have to have 50 boxes to get really personal attention there.

Not really, the folks in charge take notice... it's just the phone techs that are clueless. Get active in the forums if you aren't already. If you bring something up on the forums they'll see it and get it handled - otherwise you're a support ticket being handled "in order of submission" by a tech. Robert and the guys in charge watch and participate in the forums, and that's how they get to know people.

VirtuMike · 09-08-2003, 01:23 AM

Yeah that's what you need to do. Get involved in the forums. Spend your days and nights trolling their forums and getting to know the $8/hour dropouts that handle the servers your income depends on. If you don't do it they won't give a shit about you. If you do you're wasting so much of your time you won't get anything else done.

But your cogent line will be smooth until they decide to unplug you.

Get a real host. Actually, go ahead and stick with the shitty providers. I'll end up getting your listings and traffic.

Thanks in advance!

keyDet79 · 09-08-2003, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by biporn

What are you a fucking moron?
He clearly said he wants no cogent bandwidth...
You allways come up on cogent. So dont go bullshiting that its only a backup. Your on cogent.
Here is another trace for you
9 0 10 10 154.54.2.189 p11-0.core01.dfw01.atlas.cogentco.com
10 0 0 0 66.28.4.26 p15-0.core02.dfw01.atlas.cogentco.com
11 51 50 50 66.28.4.134 p5-0.core02.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com
12 40 50 50 66.28.4.69 p15-0.core01.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com
13 50 50 40 66.28.20.226 comprage-engineering.demarc.cogentco.com

Thanks for the kind words, the main virtual hosting server shows cogent since a couple of days, we almost have NONE in the mix and traces depend on location (for a some locations cogent is the fastest line). We will put HIM on Global Crossing like with all other dedicated servers. Try not to post nonsense before you check up on a few things, or one day you might get verbally raped.

VirtuMike · 09-08-2003, 09:15 AM

Oh and let's not forget the Rackshack bandwidth coverup - they put the inbounds on a real provider but your outbounds are cogent. What does this do? It makes it look like you're on a real provider before you buy and you're doing your traces to probe them. Once you sign you can trace out and you see the ugly truth.

I HATE THAT.

darksoul · 09-08-2003, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirtuMike
Oh and let's not forget the Rackshack bandwidth coverup - they put the inbounds on a real provider but your outbounds are cogent. What does this do? It makes it look like you're on a real provider before you buy and you're doing your traces to probe them. Once you sign you can trace out and you see the ugly truth.

I HATE THAT.

That is a total BULLSHIT.
and it has been said lots of times that cogent its only
on their 10mbps servers.

fact is many of the wannabe hosters only dream
to have a network as good as rackshack's

justsexxx · 09-08-2003, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSaint

$79 for a 700GB managed 1.4 dedicated celly server??? WTF? Thats insane.

I ordered one as a test, its only for disaster recovery anyway, really a file cabinet.

Looks like those guys (a division of thePlanet) have been copying the RS formula all the way, right down to the data center web cam, forums, and listing how many of each server is available to entice wavering customers to snap them up.

Thanks to the rest but I am just naturally cheap.

So far I have noticed two strange things in the adult industry:

1. The higher the conversion rate that a sponser claims, the lower it actually is.

2. The cheaper a dedicated server is, the higher the uptime is.

Funny, when you take a server, you pay for example 150 dollar for a server including 750 GB BW, when you wanna make it 1000GB prepaid, they add 250US dollar a month

So 250 GB is 250US dollar, so the overusage might be even priced higher

Andre

Poppy · 09-08-2003, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gel

What about the price?

According to your site the closest you offer to a standard RS set up is $179 per Month for 300 gigs.

That's more $50 higher than RS for less than half to gigs.

What do charge for overages?

Gel,

If Price, Performance, and Support are important to you then Jupiter Hosting is where you should be.

Feel free to hit me up on ICQ discuss 42640781.

Poppy

Fabuleux · 09-08-2003, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by justsexxx

Funny, when you take a server, you pay for example 150 dollar for a server including 750 GB BW, when you wanna make it 1000GB prepaid, they add 250US dollar a month

So 250 GB is 250US dollar, so the overusage might be even priced higher

Andre

Uhhh. Buy more boxes? Is 1500 GB BW for $160. Not bad...

ckm · 09-08-2003, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirtuMike
Oh and let's not forget the Rackshack bandwidth coverup - they put the inbounds on a real provider but your outbounds are cogent. What does this do? It makes it look like you're on a real provider before you buy and you're doing your traces to probe them. Once you sign you can trace out and you see the ugly truth.

I HATE THAT.

I took you up on your claim and did traces out of my box at rackshack and saw Verio, Time Warner, MFN, and Allegiance... No Cogent... except for when I did a trace to cogentco.com and psinet. Using the cogent argument when saying why someone shouldn't use rackshack is getting old. Their mrtg graphs are public and out of their 13 gig-e's, only 1 is cogent. Even their 10mbit boxes aren't all cogent only anymore - the CTO posted in their forum they are moving those to BGP too. If you are getting cogent on the outbound, it is because BGP says thats the best route.

ckm · 09-08-2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by justsexxx

Funny, when you take a server, you pay for example 150 dollar for a server including 750 GB BW, when you wanna make it 1000GB prepaid, they add 250US dollar a month

So 250 GB is 250US dollar, so the overusage might be even priced higher

Overages are $1.50/gig.

The main selling point for servermatrix is you are getting a managed server for the price of an unmanaged. The downside is all servers are initially capped at 10mbit, but if you need it to be burstable, they will uncap it.

TheSaint · 09-08-2003, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by justsexxx

Funny, when you take a server, you pay for example 150 dollar for a server including 750 GB BW, when you wanna make it 1000GB prepaid, they add 250US dollar a month

So 250 GB is 250US dollar, so the overusage might be even priced higher

Andre

Yeah when you play the rackshack game you have to be careful never to exceed the bandwith. I keep multiple servers rsync'ed and use dynamic dns so if I go close to 700 gb I just switch boxes...

nike · 09-08-2003, 02:20 PM

Servermatrix look very slick, definitely a good competitor for RS.

nike · 09-08-2003, 02:58 PM

Double fucking post -

09-06-2003, 09:27 PM	#1
TheSaint Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Everywhere at once Posts: 991	Who is as good as Rackshack? I love Rackshack. At 17,000 servers and growing fast, they may be the only hosting company im business in a few years. Must as I like them though, I am looking for a similar host to help with disaster planning. I want to be able to diversify onto non-RS servers in case the state of Texas sinks into the ocean or something. I've heard there are other hosts as good as them, but I'm skeptical. My requirements are: 1. Unmanaged. I don't want anybody messing with my server, thank you very much. 2. Price similar to RS (< $130 for 700 gig dedicated, $250 for dual xenon 1200 gig). 3. Very good bandwith, no cogent. 4. Good around the clock support for a reboot or hardware failure, or an image restore. 5. A real company -corporate address, phone numbers, etc. 6. Prefer another large host like RS. 7. Diverse network with many carriers. 8. Must offer RedHat. Be interested to hear if they have been copied with any sucess.

09-06-2003, 09:30 PM	#2
p00p Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: CanaDUH Posts: 5,125	Bring on the spammers! __________________ ICQ: 316365783 <a href="http://www.hostultra.com/~p00p" target="_blank">TEST</a>

09-07-2003, 03:25 AM	#4
VirtuMike Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Seat 1A Posts: 2,483	HAHAHA who is as good as rackshack? Give me two coffee cans, a string, a typewriter, and a stick of Doublemint and I'll have a server facility faster and more reliable than those morons. Give me some duct tape and three Burger King fry cooks and I'd have better tech support too. Get a real provider this time. We use Webair. __________________ Host it in AMSTERDAM at EUROTIVITY! - We also offer BACKUP SERVICES! XYZZY4L

09-07-2003, 04:37 AM	#10
Oracle Porn Affiliate Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Icq: 94-399-723 Posts: 24,433	http://www.likewhoa.com __________________

09-07-2003, 04:39 AM	#11
imJason Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,215	Swiftwill.com __________________ IM Jason 31227578 http://www.vidsvidsvids.com

09-06-2003, 09:31 PM	#3
mrthumbs salad tossing sig guy Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: mrthumbs*gmail.com Posts: 11,702	the alertnative youll find will probably be a RS reseller

09-07-2003, 03:46 AM	#7
xl11 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 712	What about dynamichosting.com?

09-07-2003, 03:51 AM	#8
http Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,811	http://www.cyberwurx.com/

09-07-2003, 04:33 AM	#9
Wilbo Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Baltimore Posts: 2,082	Never used them, but they look cheap also http://www.servermatrix.com/

09-07-2003, 04:39 AM	#12
IMP^or^SNiTL.e A/S/L .. I don't names. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,177	hey Saint man hook me up on icq 78890275 msn [email protected] or ill cya on irc or pm me man on any of the boards where on hehehe

09-07-2003, 04:45 AM	#14
Arty Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 880	Jupiter Hosting One word "PERFECT!" Hit me up @ icq if you need details..

09-07-2003, 07:41 AM	#15
Poppy Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: O H I O Posts: 6,254	TheSaint, We meet all of your requirements plus more at Jupiter Hosting Please hit me up on ICQ to discuss. Poppy __________________ VP Sales, Peak5Payments [email protected] Skype: consultpoppy In adult since 98'

09-07-2003, 12:09 PM	#17
keyDet79 Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,109	Hi TheSaint, what you are looking for is VibeHosting.com (seriously), with high bandwidth servers (2000GB+) we are pretty much unbeatable even by rackshack, with any system. Bandwidth is multihomed, primarily Global Crossing, servers can be upgraded/downgraded (hardware and bandwidth) at any time you want. All servers are on 100mbit burstable ports unless you prefer a cap. Our P4/Xeons are a bit more expensive but you do get 2.4's and not the old 2.0's. Servers are housed in eXchange colo, one of the largest and best datacenters. Hit me up for more information or custom plans, we can even provide you with much better support since our servers are semi-managed. ICQ 51034232, MSN [email protected], Email [email protected] __________________ Multihomed quality BW for less ICQ 51034232 - MSN [email protected] - Email keydet(at)vibehosting.com Last edited by keyDet79; 09-07-2003 at 12:13 PM..

09-07-2003, 08:10 PM	#22
sexyavs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 615	National Net was running some 10mb's servers for a while.. I dont know if they still do..but they manage them 100%.. You wont find as good a price anywhere else.. especially for the server power you are getting.. Chris __________________ <br> <a href="http://www.sexypassport.com/webmaster/webmaster.php?siteid=752359">Join the Highest Paying FREE AVS. </a><br> <a href="http://nakedpass.com/webmaster/webmaster.php">Naked Pass New FREE Avs Also Pays $20.00 Per FREE Signup!! </a><br> Have you checked out <a href="http://makefuckingmoney.com">Make Fucking Money!</a> Get Paid on FREE Memberships!

09-07-2003, 09:02 PM	#23
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,725	Rackshack is unbeatable pricewise and as it has been said so many times if you know what you are doing with Redhat you will have no problems. Their support and abuse policies can be troubling tho. If you get DOS'd you will get unplugged. There will be no attempt to resolve the problem to preserve your service. And if you have a big popular site you will certainly have someone eventually take a crack at you. I use them for low value services and put the mission critical elsewhere.

09-07-2003, 09:34 PM	#25
mike503 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: oregon. Posts: 2,243	hit me up. we'll give near rackshack prices for the same kind of stuff. higher quality bandwidth and on-site support as well... and still give you complete breathing room for what you want to do. also since it's not cookie-cutter like RS, you can expand and do multiple servers, or server clusters, whatever you want to do. i started with rackshack as well, but grew out of them. they were good for the price. __________________ php/mysql guru. hosting, coding, all that jazz.

09-07-2003, 11:26 PM	#26
BiffTannen Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Newport Beach Posts: 28	viva la

09-07-2003, 11:49 PM	#27
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	I've been unplugged at RS - and I am still with them. Been with them for years. Check the forums there, you'll see where I was bitching out the techs because they demanded a restore on my box for chkrootkit coming up positive on TCP 465 (which it always does on a Linux box running any type of firewall). Happened twice - second time I said fuck it and locked the bitch down so hard there's only specific ports that data can go out of. Other than that, they've been fantastic, and this is coming from a woman who's been called "the biggest bitch on the face of the earth" by their CEO on the phone. ;) Most of you guys spamming your services need to read the original post - "price similar to RS"... not 3 times as much for half the alloted BW. RS is slowly but surely taking over the hosting world, hehe.

09-08-2003, 01:23 AM	#29
VirtuMike Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Seat 1A Posts: 2,483	Yeah that's what you need to do. Get involved in the forums. Spend your days and nights trolling their forums and getting to know the $8/hour dropouts that handle the servers your income depends on. If you don't do it they won't give a shit about you. If you do you're wasting so much of your time you won't get anything else done. But your cogent line will be smooth until they decide to unplug you. Get a real host. Actually, go ahead and stick with the shitty providers. I'll end up getting your listings and traffic. Thanks in advance! __________________ Host it in AMSTERDAM at EUROTIVITY! - We also offer BACKUP SERVICES! XYZZY4L

09-08-2003, 09:15 AM	#31
VirtuMike Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Seat 1A Posts: 2,483	Oh and let's not forget the Rackshack bandwidth coverup - they put the inbounds on a real provider but your outbounds are cogent. What does this do? It makes it look like you're on a real provider before you buy and you're doing your traces to probe them. Once you sign you can trace out and you see the ugly truth. I HATE THAT. __________________ Host it in AMSTERDAM at EUROTIVITY! - We also offer BACKUP SERVICES! XYZZY4L

09-08-2003, 02:20 PM	#39
nike Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	Servermatrix look very slick, definitely a good competitor for RS.

09-08-2003, 02:58 PM	#40
nike Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	Double fucking post -