bryany

a hunid

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ya ya, I'll fill this in later...

Chris Mallick

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nevermind
[B]

Actually, I agree.

But when people have screwed me in business, I go for blood with everything I've got.

*******************************************

I'm really behind on my reading today, so I may have to post again, but I agree with Nevermind on the above. And when I find out how you are, I am going to go after you for defamation and slander.

Your facts are for shit and your motives are becoming more clear every day.

More later, maybe...

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Chris Mallick
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mrthumbs

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chris Mallick
[B]

woodman

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chris Mallick
[B]You think a judge is really going to give a shit that someone was posting negative things about Epoch on an adult message board?

Chris Mallick

Maybe.

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Chris Mallick
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MegaPussy

Having a few of our own merchant accounts for non-adult internet stuff, I can confirm that VISA/MC and their issuing banks have gotten pretty ridiculous. Anyone who has applied for a domestic account with any online business in the last year has probably been through what I have, their definition of 'high-risk' has expanded to include a lot of things.

As 'nevermind' seems to espouse, VISA/MC have the right to 'protect' their customers. They could easily do so by spending some of their trillions in revenue each year to upgrade and update their networks, add security features that deter fraud, and provide internet merchants with a standard platform to process transactions. Instead they choose to levy fines. They have had years to adapt to the widespread fraud online, but they have yet to come up with even a workable solution (Verified by VISA is 'optional' for merchants). Instead they advertise their 'zero liability' (a.k.a. a license for law-abiding citizens to commit online fraud) and place all the weight of the problem on the backs of merchants.

VISA/MC prefer to bully the merchants around, let's hope Walmart Sears et al. can put a dent in there. I've rambled enough, having been on the fine/penalty end of things I can say it's ridiculous, the cost of doing business is bad enough without dealing with arbitrary bullshit.

But yes, I do think companies like Epoch should stop processing for a lot of the people they do. They need to put their feet down and stamp out a lot of the shady practices they let their 'clients' get away with in the name of the dollar. Those surfers will still sign up for porn sites, they'll just do it at reputable places and everyone will be happy.

- Titus

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tony286

Bravo Titus Thats where most of these problems have come from.
Two more thoughts been reading this thread too. First to the person who spoke about ibill not having deep pockets, ibill probably has the deepest pockets of them all (thats why you dont see them on here, when you have that much money this is very petty stuff)
Secondly I understand Chris ,this faceless person is annoying you but to issue threats of suing because" you said bad things so I am coming after you "it is beneath a CEO like yourself, makes your company look like its two guys in a basement and its creates the doubt maybe she speaks the truth. You're better than that .

kmanrox

if you just got fucked for a few mil, you'd have cashflow problems too, wouldnt ya?

they are s steadfast company that is here to stay. i have been in their offices in marina del ray, toured the NOC, saw the security measures they take, the call center, the whole schpiel, they were expanding when i was there too... they've got my seal of approval and i use them as the primary processor on all of my ventures....

rock on chris!

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tucker

First off...Paycoms tag line of being ROCK SOLID is not a frabrication but a true to life statement about their company. THEY ARE ROCK SOLID.

Some of the webmasters in this thread are missing the bigger picture; the outcome of this claim will benefit all webmasters as a whole whether or not they process adult or non adult and whether or not they process with Paycom.

This is a big step in the right direction and the fact that they may be asking certain webmasters for a little breathing room is a small price to pay for larger checks and checks in general in the future.

Its not about today, its about being here tomorrow and for many years to come.

Go get em Chris!

Jason

The Faceless Person.

One whom finds enjoyment on posting wrongful information about reputable sponsors, processors, and others cowardly.. By doing this, they hope to boost your own ego and gain respect from their peers.

On a business built on reputation, they have no regard for the damage that is caused by false allegations.

False claims and slander is taken VERY seriously.

If you want to take something publicly, I would suggest you make your information know.




BTW.. who are you nevermind?

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scooby doo as scooby does

I am a honest adult webmaster. I don't abuse free trials. I don't have misleading tours. I don't use shock tactics on my web pages. I have absolutely no trouble keeping my chargebacks AND refunds below 1%. Well below.

Am I happy that a certain section of the adult industry, both webmasters and IPSP's, have caused the card companies to introduce more administration and charges for me because certain webmasters & IPSP's can't control their chargebacks ?

Fuck No. No one should be.

Fuck anyone who is unable to control their chargebacks. You have caused these problems. <b>You ARE the problem</b>

'Benefit other webmasters' Give me a break.

The best quote in this thread....

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cash69

they will win.. visa/mc hasn't done shit in years and years to prevent fraud.. the internet is growing faster then anything else and they are just sitting on their ass collecting their money.. watching everyone like hawks like a referee and slapping on penalties..

"this person said he didn't sign up.. it was a family member.. slap 500$ penalty"

the only one without these stupid fines is discover.. and it is becuase they can't monopoly anybody around becuase they aren't big enough.. im SURE they would LOVE to have a 1% penalty and start fining people up the ass.. but they can't .. they aren't needed enough and would be dropped quicker then fuck

tony286

Maybe thats what we should do , help build discover card membership. Offer discover card discounts with a link beside it dont have discover ? click here and it sends them to their site. Its gets better they have affiliate program, you get $25 for every approved app. Since visa and mc are getting foggy we got to do something, I think if we were responsible for dramatically increasing discover card memberships. They would work much more closely with us. It pays to Discover

scooby doo as scooby does

It's a shame IPSP's don't allow different rates to be charged for different cards. I would happily encourage people to use Discover by charging 10-20% less or something.

Mind you, I'm pretty sure the card companies have it in their contracts that this can't be done.

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NEWMAN-BERRY CASH
Paying webmaster since 1904

Cindyff

You are only partly correct in that some webmasters have cause some serious issues promoting sites with little or no content, misleading tours, price switching, failure to stop rebills when requested etc.etc. But my belief, at least in the last year or so is that the credit card companies and some online processor are as much if not more to blame. For example Mastercard Visa have it within their power to investigate fraudulent use by cardholders on the web. On the sites we run and the sponsors we work with we have seen member ship fraud increase 4 fold in the last 18 months, why because credit card companies allow it to happen. Its far easier and more profitable to set stupid chargeback percentages so that all the card company dose is sit on its fat ass and rake in the profits, after all managing the five or six main online processors is far less work than tackling the real cause of this problem.

As i stated above there are some webmasters that are very much to blame for some of this mess, some billing companies should also take part of the blame for their arbitrary refund policy's lack of communication with its clients and an attitude of i could care less as long as i have deep pockets to fall back on.

How can we solve this problem, it isn't easy, CC companies will have to re think their methods and policy's and start communicating its rules to everyone in writing so their is no room for misunderstanding and mistakes. Online processors will have to close down sites with excessive chargebacks, dubious trading practices, illegal content and misleading tours. Webmasters need to be kept informed about everything to do with their sites, if members are unable to access tell the webmaster don't just refund the members fees and hope it will go away. This doesn't solve the problem just masks it for an hour or two. From my stand point i am surprised that after 7 plus years on the web processing $$$ is still extremely crude Adult entertainment is still probably the largest money making venture online and it could be good for all concerned if they just acted in a more unified way and jointly solve this present crisis so that we could all get back to the job at hand , making money ?


Cindy xx

nevermind

What you guys are really pissed about is that I actually read the lawsuit, and have been pointing out the facts as outlined in that lawsuit.

If you don't like someone pointing out the details Chris --- and you were expecting some blind cheerleading mantra, well --- you probably shouldn't have posted it in the first place.

PornDollar, you obviously haven't read the lawsuit. It might help if you did.

http://www.paycom.net/mastercard/lawsuit.pdf

And BTW Chris, You might want to consult a lawyer on the actual legal definition of slander. You don't even come close with your ridiculous threats.

You can't "slander" someone if you base your opinions on facts, which is exactly what I've done.

I could go through all of the page citations again, but I've already done that on other threads.

Are you now disputing the following facts as outlined in the lawsuit?

* Epoch violated MC's 1 percent chargeback rule for eight months in 2001-2002, a good year and a half after MC implemented the 1 percent rule.

* Epoch says there was other data showing chargeback violations after that, but Epoch says it was reported to MC in error.

* MC says Epoch has violated other rules by issuing too many refunds "in lieu" of chargebacks.

* MC has imposed substantial punitive fines, and is currently fining Epoch $2,500 a day --- demanding they restructure their entire business, or they will cut them off.

* MC accounts for 40 percent of Epoch's revenues, so if MC cuts them off, it could worsen the above mentioned cash flow problem.

Where are the false allegations and claims?

I've expressed opinions based upon the above mentioned facts, as is my right.

If you don't like it, hike it.

nevermind

This is EXACTLY where I am coming from on this issue.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

ronin

Hell NO

Interlude

Got that email... I wasn't alarmed at all. In fact, I felt sort of warm and fuzzy to know that I'm dealing with a group of folks professional enough to inform me of bad news.

ADL Colin

Ugh. Fucking outrageous.

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skype = "adultdatelink"

ADL Colin

I wish everyone handled things like Epoch in this business. I'm happy with them.

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skype = "adultdatelink"

psyko514

Evidently, you don't get the reasoning behind this argument. We're pointing out the fact that we are getting picked on because we are adult companies. We're not arguing the fact that they can get away with it and we can't. We're arguing the fact that they are treated a lot more leniently and don't have bullshit fines pushed against them. We're seen as easier to pick on due to the nature of our products/services.

Wait... you're going to turn around and use the "scamming adult webmasters" argument again, right? Back up your words with facts. In case you haven't caught on, I work for Visa. When customers want to initiate a chargeback, they call me and my co-workers. And I can assure you that we get a lot more calls concerning scamming gyms, ISPs and cable companies (individually) than calls concerning adult memberships.
In fact, I dealt with one call concerning a gym yesterday, one today and an ISP problem today as well. The last time I dealt with an adult site-related chargeback was last Thursday. Those are hard facts that cannot be disputed.

As for Epoch/Paycom, the last chargeback I initiated against them was several months ago. As far as chargebacks go, ccBill and IBill have the most complaints, followed by a lot of the smaller companis (PSW, Globocharge, etc). Paycom, Globill and Jettis account for perhaps a combined 5% of the chargebacks we iniate and personally, I've only initiate one against Globill, 3 against Paycom and 6 against Jettis.

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psyko514

If you're so confident that your words are true and not slanderous, why are you so secretive about your identity? You dodge every single question about your identity.

If you were as confident as you say you are, you'd have no problem exposing who you are. Or you'd at least have the balls to call Chris and discuss your alleged slander on the phone with him, before this turns into a lawsuit.

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nevermind

If you don't want to listen to me, or even read my posts, that's fine.

But I ask you, what has the Almighty Epoch done for you lately?

In the past year they've told everybody don't worry about the chargebacks. They've got it all under control. They're the experts. They know what they're doing.

Now they're facing a MC cutoff and ... let's not forget ...

CASH FLOW PROBLEMS

And your measure of a successful processor is what?

Bankruptcy?

I suppose you'll be touting Epoch's expertise even if they go broke.

nevermind

For crying out loud.

Like I need to be worried about a lawsuit with Epoch.

Actually, it would be fun, if they really wanted to go there.

But I think they have enough problems paying their legal bills with MC.

Kimmykim

LOL, and the class action lawsuit against Visa and MC that originated in North Carolina is NOT a group of adult merchants. They are a group of INTERNET merchants who alledge nearly identical complaints in THEIR NON PORN dealings with the credit card companies.

Of course I was surprised to find the lights on and the water still running in the Epoch offices today... after all of nevermind's posts, I really figured I'd get there and it would be dark and we'd have to use the neighbors' toilets.

TaDoW

I hope this gets blown over by the time our alternate account gets set up

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I've Upped My Standards, Up Yours!

Triple 6

Hi CHRIS.

How is everything?

Great.

You request info from me, say 'Im waiting', and I send minutes later after your request.

THREE FUCKING MONTHS now, IM still waiting ??

So whats the answer? Is it THAT hard to admit your system was FUCKED UP? Yea, that would be bad for business, wouldnt it?

ANSWER.

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nevermind

Yeah. Big deal.

WSB sued Visa too. That really did them a lot of good.

WSB is out of biz.

psyko514

Really? Fascinating.
Epoch isn't suing Visa.

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nevermind

The point --- which I thought was obvious --- is that lawsuits don't necessarily solve these problems for the processors.

crescentx

OK, pysko514, let me ask you directly. Are "porn complaints" handled differently than ogfther chargebacks? It's taken us since Feb to get a chargeback handled by Providian for a fraudulent hotel res.

-doug

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psyko514

Pretty lame point seeing as how it implies that they necessarily create more problems for the processors.

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psyko514

Internet chargebacks are handled differently than brick+mortar merchant chargebacks.

We have no clue if your iBill charge is from a porn site or a financial advice site.

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nevermind

Speaking of chargebacks ...

I just got an email from one of my credit card accounts touting a new, easy chargeback service.

You can dispute the charge online much "faster and easier" with this new system.

Interesting.

crescentx

OK, psyko, what is "differently" - automatic?

-doug

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psyko514

Nope. As there is no signed draft to order, the customer has to write a letter stating they never authorized the charge. Then, like all chargebacks, a letter is sent to the merchant bank. The merchant has the option of representing the chargeback (disputing it). In the case of internet chargebacks, most merchants won't represent the chargeback as it's nearly impossible to prove the cardholder authorized the charge.

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nevermind

Don't try to take my quote out of context.

I wasn't implying that the lawsuits cause more problems. We really don't know because these lawsuits are new, and there's no court rulings --- to the best of my knowledge.

But we do know that it didn't help WSB, and it didn't solve their problems.

That's all I was saying.

cash69

wouldn't be suprised if the president doesn't have something to do with all of this.. we need a new president.. this one is stupid.. trying to help the economy and it's about to colapse everywhere.. giving people an extra 100$ a month from taxes isn't going to do shit.. that's all going twards beer for most people

psyko514

Your post pretty much says "WSB went out of business because they sued Visa."
I didn't take anything out of context. Perhaps you just need to figure out the nuances of the english language?

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Kimmykim

Waaaa waaa waaaa, I detect some seriously sour grapes in your tone. Perhaps you need to chill out a bit, bitterness is not becoming in a woman.

nevermind

For crying out loud. I guess I'll really have to spell it out for you from now on.

I was not saying that WSB went out of business because they sued Visa. For all I know, the legal fees alone may have prevented them from fully pursuing the case.

What we DO know is that it didn't do them much good. They sued Visa a year and a half ago, and now they're out of biz.

Is that clear enough?

psyko514

No, it really isn't.
You're creating a direct link between their previous lawsuit and the fact that they went out of business.

The fact is, lawsuit or not, they'd probably be in the same position.

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cash69

bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch.. that's all you guys do.. sounds like 2 women on the phone

psyko514

Do me a favour and spell out your reply to my previous posts earlier tonight.

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rdunn404

Yeah I got the same email for my Platinum Chase card. Like a new online 'one-click' dispute feature they've added.

Kimmykim

Hmm, how do you KNOW it didn't do them much good? How can you be so sure that their issues with Visa at the time they filed suit were not resolved with Visa and their demise was not based upon something entirely unrelated?

For instance how do you KNOW that they weren't fined into oblivion by Mastercard to the point they became unable to pay?

How do you know that their bank didn't get out of the 2257 business and they couldn't get a new processing account in time to keep running?

How do you know that they didn't just spend all their money on drugs and hookers and that's why they went belly up?

Let's see, you DON'T know.

But yet you care to speculate and make potentially libelous comments about more than just one processor.

Your idea of what you know and what you don't know are absolutely amazing to me.

psyko514

oooh ooh ooh... i get to correct kimmy on something for once! you mean the 5969 business ;b

isn't this their excuse?

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Brad Mitchell

Musta been all the hookers and drugs! That would, after all, make for the most interesting story.... if we're going to make one up... since we really don't know what happened...

Brad

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Elephant_Gut

Nevermind is a woman? If you know who nevermind is, I think Chris Mallick has offered a public reward for her true identity.

Do tell! These posts are a better than a soap opera and it would be cool to see her unmasked so that she (whoever she is) and Mallick can then duke it out for real!! I'd pay for tickets to that show!

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