What would you do? (Legal) Mainstream site using my established sitename for a "non-profit" 501c3

[shimmy2]

So here is something you dont see everyday.

Lets say I want to start up a website, "non-profit" book club that takes 'donations' and I decide to call it the "Coca-Cola Book Club" without ever contacting coca cola and getting their express written consent. And then I started slowly taking over all the search engine rankings for coca cola. What would likely happen to my "book club"? considering that the original (copyrighted) Coca-Cola site has been online since 2009 and the knockoff book club just recently popped up outta nowhere?

[CaptainHowdy]

I'm sure the big guys at Coca Cola don't give a flying fuck about their brand . . .

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by shimmy2

considering that the original (copyrighted) Coca-Cola site has been online since 2009

1994, not 2009

Domain: coca-cola.com

Registered On: 1994-10-14
Expires On: 2025-10-13
Updated On: 2024-09-11


you´d probably receive a call from them, asking to join your book club

[BaldBastard]

I think they would fuck you up the ass with as splintered broom stick

Don't..... Its simply not worth your plagiarism ass.

Write it off, mistakes learned.

[TheLegacy]

Well outside of the fact that Google and other search engines have mechanisms to address trademark abuse in search results, and your site would likely be penalized or removed from rankings. That being said if they find out then you'd be asked to stop it - then they could take over your website etc. its also the idea of their trade name not wanting to be smeared in any way as they would have no control.

Now thats a far out example - smaller less known sites likely could get away with it but best practice is to use a little more imagination and think of a better name

[blackmonsters]

Some people need to read the thread title again.

[Shoplifter]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Some people need to read the thread title again.

Yep.

At the very least get one of the industry lawyers to C & D them.

[asorelli]

If you don't have Shimmy trademarked as a non-profit helping to fight domestic violence against women/children, there's not much you can legally do. "Established" or "Copyright" doesn't offer as much protection as a trademark would, but even then, it would depend on the class that was filed. For example, I can use the term "apple" in my business name if I'm selling apples and not be worried about getting sued. I might even be able to sell clothing with an apple on it. But, I can't sell computers using the name apple. This is just one very vague example.

Trademark laws can be complicated, and those with money often times win. For example, facebook sued a few companies that used the word "book" in their name, mainly companies that operate in the social networking or online community space. They argued that the "book" component of their name was distinctive and that others using it in similar contexts could dilute their brand or create confusion. While they don't hold any trademark's on the word "book", they do have money to financially drain you.

[asorelli]

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

Yep.

At the very least get one of the industry lawyers to C & D them.

Send them a cease and desist letter based on what? Not enough info was provided, but I'll take a wild guess and say that it's highly doubtful the non-profit is raising money for porn.

[shimmy2]

To put things more simply, I started my native girls site NDNgirls in 2009 (ndngirls.com) and there is a knockoff site called ndngirlsbookclub.org that sells overpriced merch and takes "nonprofit" donations like jerryskids/marchofdimes or whatever for underpriveledged natives or something like that. cry me a river i'm black and used to work for their indian casinos. anyhow, theyre robbing my serp rankings for NDNgirls and my point is "I was here first" with the NDNgirls name that is all. And we all know google prioritizes non adult links, but there is some copyright issues at hand here. This goes back to DVD land times I've had the name and domain published


vs.

[Shoplifter]

Originally Posted by asorelli

Send them a cease and desist letter based on what? Not enough info was provided, but I'll take a wild guess and say that it's highly doubtful the non-profit is raising money for porn.

I had figured it was somehow genre related.

But going after some Native author book club is going to bring more trouble and scrutiny than it would ever be worth.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

But going after some Native author book club is going to bring more trouble and scrutiny than it would ever be worth.

That's what I was thinking. It's like inviting age verification scrutiny.

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

I had figured it was somehow genre related.

But going after some Native author book club is going to bring more trouble and scrutiny than it would ever be worth.

Yeah, you're crazy for even considering it

Then again, how many sales has ndngirls made thanks to bad publicity over the years

[NoWhErE]

I think the simplest answer is: ask your lawyer.

Without knowing your corporate setup, State laws and a few other very important details, the armchair lawyers on this forum can’t give you any useful advice

[The Porn Nerd]

Put a link to their site on your site then contact them asking for a reciprocal link.



But seriously that sucks big time. You can only hope that, over time, with your continued work, their ranking will drop.

[JesseQuinn]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Yeah, you're crazy for even considering it

Then again, how many sales has ndngirls made thanks to bad publicity over the years

exactly

think of the Starbucks vs Haidabucks lawsuit, dropped cuz of public backlash (and the latter were even using a logo extremely similar to the corp). and Starbucks have an actual TM

Native lit is a huge thing in terms of the 'reclaiming identity/culture' thing, one of my aunts is all up in it and sends me books all time at great shipping expense tryna get me to "embrace" that side of myself

some of them are far too on-the-nose/hit you over the head with not a lot of lit merit (imho) but some are fucking brilliant

a wicked one is The Marrow Thieves by Cherie Dimaline. so, so good. I've read it to kids in my neighbourhood during our story hours and the message is translatable to any colonized people. the book is a perfect interweaving of the multiple issues faced by those positioned subordinately in a changing world


in checking out the site (which I found in searching your diff site names before you posted it) I noticed that most of the peeps involved are younger. that's a huge plus

the 'Elders' can be stodgy and rigidly conservative and tbh often a hindrance to progressive community development. you know this first hand...you got neg publicity for preying on Native gyals by offering them a paycheck in exchange for legit work in safe, non-exploitative working conditions

due to econ necessity, a lot of women on and off reserve engage in various forms of sex work, and on the porn tip you weren't the first to do it, nor will you be the last

perhaps contact the site, explain who you are, your experience and what your site is, and offer to write a guide for how Native women (and men) can work safely in the biz. to the best of my knowledge nothing like that has been done before

with a simple link back to 'Shimmy from NDNgirls.com' or whatever to establish your credentials and strictly for seo purposes. could also serve as something positive for all involved

may not work, just an idea. but yeah, esp w/o a trademark you're dead in the water. even with one...ethically not sure pursuing it would be the right thing to do. I don't get the sense they were seeking to capitalize off a porn site, NDN gets used a lot in various contexts

dunno man, just some thoughts off the top of my head. good luck

[RyuLion]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Yeah, you're crazy for even considering it

Then again, how many sales has ndngirls made thanks to bad publicity over the years

Shimmy! I didn't see you in Miami this time!

[asorelli]

Originally Posted by shimmy2

I don't know, I see some potential talent up in there. Possible recruits?

Or maybe a better approach/idea like JesseQuinn said:

"perhaps contact the site, explain who you are, your experience and what your site is, and offer to write a guide for how Native women (and men) can work safely in the biz. to the best of my knowledge nothing like that has been done before"

Seriously though, even though google is a hot mess right now with results, you shouldn't have too many problems outranking them with little effort. But, you may want to consider a redesign. You're still using tables, it takes forever to load, and it's really not mobile friendly. I've seen worse ranking higher, with very old, established mainstream sites. What's your bounce rate like? There are some other issues that I saw (which can be fixed with a redesign) but I suspect these are some reasons you're not ranking as well as you would like. Anyway, whatever route you decide to take, good luck. If you're going to spend any money, I would spend the money on a redesign. My

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by shimmy2

To put things more simply, I started my native girls site NDNgirls in 2009 (ndngirls.com) and there is a knockoff site called ndngirlsbookclub.org that sells overpriced merch and takes "nonprofit" donations like jerryskids/marchofdimes or whatever for underpriveledged natives or something like that. cry me a river i'm black and used to work for their indian casinos. anyhow, theyre robbing my serp rankings for NDNgirls and my point is "I was here first" with the NDNgirls name that is all. And we all know google prioritizes non adult links, but there is some copyright issues at hand here. This goes back to DVD land times I've had the name and domain published

I'm not an attorney, so this is not legal advice, but I think you are in the right.

You'd probably need to register your trademark first to successfully pursue them, but given you have legitimately been using the mark for many years, that seems doable.

Might just be a waste of a few hundred bucks registering the mark and the mark could get denied or could take so long to finalize (because Amazon sellers are flooding the trademark registrations) that the damage is done.

I think it is deeply wrong that some non-adult entity can come along and walk all over your mark and push it down in the search engines, beneath their less legit usage, just because they are non-adult.

FWIW, so long as you don't send out press releases about a legal scuffle, I don't see why that would need to call more scrutiny down. I doubt they are going to make a big public fuss about how they are ripping off the mark of an established adult brand. But, if you have concerns about scrutiny, then, ya know, avoid calling PR attention to it. Doing that makes it harder to settle reasonably anyway. YMMV.

Good luck.

[JesseQuinn]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

I think it is deeply wrong that some non-adult entity can come along and walk all over your mark and push it down in the search engines, beneath their less legit usage, just because they are non-adult.

I have infinite respect for you and your brilliant work product but have to disagree with you here. to reiterate I really don't think they are tryna "walk all over" anything

do a search for NDN or NDN guys or NDN girls and see a dictionary definition of NDN as slang for Native. along with other refs dating way back to the mid 2000's

a broadly used term, a book club of Native women calling themselves NDNgirlsbookclub is a description as I see it. isn't trademark infringement, even if Shimmy had one. not a lawyer either obvs but just not a fight I think is worth investing money into. I can't imagine they even factored Shimmy's site in when selecting their site name

Originally Posted by asorelli

Seriously though, even though google is a hot mess right now with results, you shouldn't have too many problems outranking them with little effort. But, you may want to consider a redesign..

wicked post, wicked advice

never use my phone and checked it out on mobile and had to scroll out to see the regular text. very few of the pics were even visible

mobile def a ranking factor, but tbh this 'competing' site has some pretty hard core links from heavy duty academic institutions and mainstream publications. for good reason I think. it's at least on surface to me apparent that they are doing important work that's being recognized


I am so biased though. as 'tis the law that everyone in JA has to have at least one nickname, mine here is Library Gyal. sharing books (unlike everyone else when a Jamaican borrows a book they actually return it, North Americas learn something!), giving away books, talking about books...

have learned so much and made so many friends and connections just through the simple joy of reading-across multiple nations


@Shimmy ya know I love ya, was being real in what I suggested above re reaching out

you shot your site footage in Canada, which is where Pickton operated. to to initiated, that was Canada's worst serial killer. estimated to have murdered between 26 and 49 predominantly Native women

the murders he was convicted of were mostly bodies of women found on his farm AFTER a woman had escaped an encounter and went to the cops (RCMP) with his address, but because she was a street level sex worker no one believed her or bothered to investigate

in the subsequent inquest (this is what Canada does when they fuck up, hold an inquest so they can quietly shove away paperwork claiming they did something) there was testimony from multiple women -not drug addicted- stating that he tried to lure them to his pig farm to shoot porn for money

he was rebuffed by them, what saved them was apparently that he detested bathing and stank. but who knows how many were just out partying for the night, not heavily street involved as many of the victims he claimed to have killed weren't, just went cuz...'I'm lit and feeling a vibe and what could go wrong?'

bear in mind most bodies weren't found, even some of the DNA of the victims was within the excrement of his pigs. that is what he did with most of the bodies, fed them to the pigs

to this day Native women are such easy targets cuz in terms of authorities no one gives a fuck. as a Black man you have no idea what this is like [insert sarcasm upside down here, just too heavy a subject to post an emoji]

this is where I think you could collab with the book club gyals to do something important

an info sheet/pdf/blog post/link/whatever on how to work in porn safely. not just STD testing and contracts and all that, but also how to choose who to work with and protocol for sets etc that is an unknown to those not familiar with the industry. that could do so much good, again for mutual benefit if you get a link back and perhaps some good press from it?

again, just ideas. who knows, just throwing stuff out there on a topic that based on the novel I've just written above you can tell hits me on a bunch of levels

you've worked in Native communities, you know how to approach them


again, not a lawyer either, just think a C&D or trademark for a site with a copyright that reads 2009-2019 would be an epic waste of money. def fix you site and seriously consider contacting them. if it works then you get some positive PR and do some good. call it creative marketing

much love to you