I don't think anyone says that... I only think you need a minimum of a certain budget to even be able to compete... it's not like the more the bigger... theres an end to that... like you said...
i agree with that...

I chortled lol


And slapass,

"""As an affiliate seller, we know that some sites sell 1:400 and some sell 1:4000. And a big chuck of that is tweaks to the tour, how much the content is out there. How good is the content? Produced well? Edited well? Pirated a lot?"""

I have been known to send a join or two and imho....

I care about nothing except the landing page.

One page sells the paysite , not a tour, and the surfer has no idea what is in the pay site til he pays so what content is in there , what it production value is etc etc etc, is irrelevant to the initial sale.

The landing page has to be great and that is what makes the surfer get the credit card out and buy.

Oh , and usually , I will give you the landing page..... ;-)))

Sorry for chiming in :)

Carry on. :)

if people didn't think that, people wouldn't be saying its an impossible question to answer.

i was exaggerating the numbers to moreso show the point i was making, i do think people think that a much larger investment changes what a person can get in terms of a realistic member base goal alot more than it does. if you have a big enough budget to pay for high quality hardcore content, you have enough to compete. more budget only helps some and wont make you 5x bigger.

You're mixing up two things now... minimum budget and a max to a budget where it doesn't matter anymore...

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

please give me a landing page :Graucho

(too bad i dont do PPS)

Once again Sir you have crystalized my thoughts. :)

I am a super practical person so the only thing I concentrate on is Joins (and getting my rebills to a respectable 2-3 months+). This is why my landing pages - A/B tested to DEATH - are so simple.

Also: paysites, big or small, seem to find their levels, as has been noted. So this is why so many companies have multiple paysites. VERY few have a single paysite. It's the only way to expand. Some are a "deal" (pay one price, get them all) while others upsell etc etc. More is almost always better.

For sure. Thats how i go about my solo site business too. I could spend a ton more time and money to increase things 10-20 percent. but i rather just use that time to launch another. its just easier to get to a certain point. and move onto the next

thats more evidence to what i was saying before, that most hardcore sites aren't worlds apart

I have enjoyed reading this thread, and as my name and sites have been referenced a lot, I wanted to recap on some numbers that I shared previously as they have relevance here. Everything I am writing here now I have shared in numerous posts in the past on both GFY and Xbiz, so nothing is new.

I invested around $150k to launch 2 sites. Around $50k of that was on cameras and computer and the design and build of the 2 sites. Around $30k was staff costs (editor, photo editor and webmaster) for a 4 month period. $70k was spent on shooting the content. This gave me enough content to launch the 2 sites and 4 weeks of updates.

We launched the sites by promoting the sites on the tube sites. It cost us nothing for promotion. Within 30 days, we were getting an average of 30 sales a day between both sites. This revenue enabled the sites to be self sufficient i.e. I did not have to invest more money into the company to shoot more content and pay the staff.

Regarding rebills, that's where we made bank. And it was the rebill revenue that I invested to launching new sites and the snowball effect started.

A starting budget is really hard to define. If you can shoot and edit the content yourself, then you don't need crew/staff. This can take a fully delivered per scene cost down from the $2k The Porn Nerd states to less than $1k if that content is shot in Europe. And that's BG content too. How many scenes do you need to launch? That has a big factor. But the more scenes you have, the more tube clips you can put on the tubes, generating more sales. That's an expensive catch 22.

Website cost... $5k? Camera equipment, lights? I wouldn't buy them at first, hire them.

So depending on your answers to a few of the statements above, everyone's starting budget would be different. I can't advise on what advertising budget would be needed as never bought traffic. And for reference, I only started doing $1 trials on my sites in Oct 2014.

@MaDalton, you have a good memory for figures ;)

A starting budget is hard to define indeed, thats why i gave such a big window. But big enough to give you all the stuff you need to make competitive content, a decent marketing budget, and explained it would update once a week like average and would start with the average amount of scenes, which from what i've seen (started researching this recently as you know) which is probably between 12-25 for top sites with content you know people would want. Blacked.Com only had to launch with 12, as they know juts how good their content was. the higher quality, the less you have to give.

But yeah, the topic wasn't really about what we need to spend to startup, everybodys will be somewhat different based on their marketing level, connections, skillset, etc - but that doesn't change the member base a great deal as you eventually get the same product in the end. a traditional paysite with similar volume of updates, similar marketing avenues, etc wont really be worlds apart.

Interested information though. :) always appreciate your posts as you are alot more open with information than most

We updated our sites with 2 and 3 updates a week respectively

And yes, blacked.com is impressive, content, design of the site, content and the content. He hit a home run with his first site and that was no easy feat in 2014. Looking forward to his 2nd, 3rd, 10th sites!!!!

Yeah I saw that when i researched yoru sites this week ;) I just mean the average site these days still only updates once a week

I speak of the average, only to give people an idea of what a good hardcore site should expect. So its best to take the averages and not the exceptions. If somebody were to ask me what to expect if i got into hardcore iwth a good product, i'd probably assume they were doing 1 update a week, unless they have an extremely large budget, 2-3 updates a week is a much higher startup cost. You saved money from marketing and basically put it towards more content, giving you an advantage over most. So you would be the exception butin the end, does a site like faketaxi have that many less members than say, blacked? Both are highly successful, one updates 2-3 times a week, one updates once a week. yet both have identical traffic stats (nearly) - think that proves my point about it not being hard to answer the main question here, which is, what the member bases are looking like for successful new hardcore sites in 2015

Ah, I threw some numbers in there about member base we experienced. The other info was just to clarify a few of the previous posts assumptions on my budget etc.

But that ratio is not at the end as retention can vary but let's say it is the same the. After a year the one site will have more then 100% more then the other site. The poorer converting and the poorer retention might be closed.

Also differnt niches will vary. IR like blacked used to retain very well. Versus say solo girls which retain very poorly. Fake taxi. I have no idea. Fad ideas like that used to convert well and retain poorly. Not sure now.

Yes retaining can change the size of a site in regards to member bases but this brings me back to a post i made earlier:

"100 percent isn't worlds apart. That would be a site with 4000 members vs 2000 members. Is that worlds apart? Lets say there is 5 successful new sites in hardcore. One has 4000, one has 2,000, One has 3500, one has 4200.

Now if somebody asked you, what can i expect out of hardcore if i were to enter hardcore with a good budget and high quality content. Would i say its worlds apart, how deep is the rabbit hole?, thats an impossible question? No. Would you say that? I dont think so. I would say, well i'd say, expect 1500-2000+. Or maybe not expect, but , thats a realistic goal"

The bigger of those numbers would be the one who retains better, most likely. There are things that increase and decrease what a site can make, of course. Every site is different. But when you give projections of what a hardcore site should/could make in 2015. You give realistic goals given everything goes according to plan. Its what people do in business proposals. And it can be done and it can be fairly accurate

FakeTaxi.com is akin to a sitcom, the members see the updates as a new episode. The retention is fantastic. But I understand about fad sites selling well and no retention.
I believe that is why blacked.com is doing so well. They are a breath of fresh air in the IR niche. Reminds me of x-art in some ways when they exploded. Stunning content, and a very well designed website. Actually, blacked and x-art are 2 sites that I am/was a member of.

Nick, I know why you think that. But content can get some of us who use differnt marketing the click through to the landing page.

And I bet you have more knowledge then most about how a niche site might have a much better conversion ratio but do to its smaller appeal, it pays less to market it heavy.

Same sites i follow (as a fan), 2/3 anyway, the other is GirlsDoPorn, only because theyre the only company out there hiring brand new high quality models almost every week, models that look like they'd never ever do porn. Low quality shooting and direction (same positions everytime) but its a breath of fresh air in an industry where you see the same models or type of girl on every site.

Now if people would copy their recruitment process and combine that with quality/design, etc

Fucking impressive. :thumbsup

You can pull in thousands, maybe even 10,000. The question is - would they be profitable? You need way more hits to convert into once sale these days, which means your cost of bringing a members is much higher then lets say 8 years ago. And membership prices did not go up...
No problems to get 10K members, question is - would you turn profit..

So the numbers being thrown around earlier is "in the ballpark" of what JT is saying. Thanks JT for sharing those numbers. :)

So we spent 50K to launch the new Fellucia Blow, in line with JT's costs to launch a new site. But a CFNM blowjob site is a highly niched site and we did not go after rebills in the same way. But at the end of the day it's about what it's always about: content and traffic.

The acquiring of the content is an initial cost, then an ongoing cost, but if you do not have very good organic traffic sources (as JT does) then you would need to either build that traffic from the ground up or pay for it. And it's this last point that is really the most important. Personally, I prefer the organic "JT way". Buying traffic (and media buys) is a tricky and costly game. Some do it very well while others go broke trying to figure it out.

I believe in maximum profits so, for me, that means getting as much as I can with as little cost as I can. This makes my personal take maximum, which is all I care about. LOL Well that, and maximum revenue for my partners, affiliates, etc. :)

you have proven to put in a major commitment to your business & the business, also found reward from your commitment. The amount of money you put into your business is outstanding, again, the amount you have received from this is worthy. This is a great asset of knowledge to my site & my partners, thank you!

Working hard, giving people the content they want to see & to drive money & commitment into a business, it can have success :2 cents:

Goooo team gfy

http://www.solorevenue.com/traffic_l...d_faketaxi.jpg


^ traffic levels

Only posting this to show more evidence that i dont think sites are all worlds apart like one might think

My point is that sites in hardcore that are successful and ran properly, all will reach around the same level, some rebill better than others, others tinker with it more, etc etc - others update more, but in teh end, you will obtain similar amounts of traffic and the end result (member base) will not be worlds apart. These numbers are not a coincidence

This happens in solo too, this is why i can project what a successful site in solo would make if done properly

But wouldn't you agree that blacked will have peaked at much smaller numbers then x-art just because its marketing is smaller.

For this discussion hardcore means a broader appeal. Am I wrong?

It wont reach the levels of x-art because x-art launched first and during a better state of the industry. The ceiling on one single site has decreased every year

Jt dont you own porntube.com one of the largest tube sites

That sent you sales amd helped with your program I assume?

It would prolly have yr content on it!!!! ;-))) ( errr allegedly) ;-)))

And slapass, with you mate, was just offering a different viewpoint from a different perspective. And yes I do understand your point too.

I just thought...well you know....we all work in different ways ;-))

JT!!!

I thought you were sodding off!!!!

You have had more comebacks than Sinatra! ;-)))

and porn nerd...

one could say , paysites find their level...me I'd rather have 100 paysites each doing 10 joins a day than 5 doing 200. ;-)))


(I really should be fined for excessive use of the winkyface)

;-)))

Nope, that's no me :)

Here is my guess. And some variables I'm going to assume.

2 updates week (need this to have material to submit to the tubes to get traffic)
Better end of ratio these days is 1:3k
so lets cut the 50k avg in half and round up to 30k uniques day
10 sales day is my guess

A B/G hardcore video for $1K? How? You need the girl, the boy, and a suitable location for the type of content you want.

I'm sure you were using talent agencies - too hard to be recruiting first timers into porn when you have lots of scenes to shoot.

Who owns blacked.com? I was told Porntube owns it by one person, then another told me the shooter/director owns half of it. I can't see a big tube owner cutting in a shooter as a partner.

Sharp content is required and the converting niche + pure bulk and assuming you have traffic and server to back up so you can just prop up something new. Your really wondering what sort of ratios can you expect based on seo and adult back linking. Those that have the bulk rebilling are paying the affiliates an acceptable percentage and offering content and market tools for their programs. The best programs have fallen by burning bridges as others watch professionalism goes along with the program. There is just so much to consider to do it right. If you had zero free sites and just wanted to just set up high end members site from scratch id think you were almost mad but still believe it could be done right and make money as your wanting the better ratio if your building quality.

?600 for talent. ?90 agency commission. ?300 for location a day (but shoot 3 scenes so ?100 per scene) total ?790 per scene.

So you have all this knowledge and you can't consult either? Did you at least move to the beach?

Nope, can't do anything. I now split my time between UK and Prague seeing all my kids. I have 5 in the UK and 1 in Prague. Wish I could pick them all up and move to a beach in Thailand but not sure their mums would get along with my gf.

Btw if you are looking for the best agency in Czech Republic, speak to Vítejte - Nikkis Models

Once again....stop crystallizing my thoughts mate! LOL

My Goal? 400 paysites each making (on average) $5,000 a year = $2million. I'll take it.

Got 82 paysites so a long way to go!! (But many do way better than 5K a year lol)

:)

You can't get away with that with LA talent agencies - not with the new and popular girls, won't be getting discounts.

Hmm - surprised nobody brings Euro girls over here, it does happen but not all that much and it's an agent bringing her in - even with airfare/hotel you could still shoot more content with her than with an American girl at a lower overall cost.

Did you hire your own shooters on salary or a day rate or were you using people like Ma Dalton who shot for you at a price you agreed on?

The thing is, they may have a problem to inter USA.
I don't know if they need visa or not, but it's not as easy.