crockett

When you say political football.. Do you mean having his parents at the press release? I really don't follow what you mean by political football on Obama's part. He made the deal to release the guy via a trade and once it was done made the announcement about it with the press release.

I don't really watch nightly news and get most of my news from the web. So what did I miss?

dyna mo

I don't watch the nightly news either. No need to try and go there. I applied the term here, perhaps it doesn't fit, I think it does because there is always an ROI on something like this. Perhaps it was simply a photo-op level ROI but this sort of thing is to add points, thus my using the expression relating it to sports- political football.

Either way, I was simply asking you what you thought the return is on this, just a photo-op or what, no biggie. I happen to think the WH didn't think it through and after 4 years the opp came up and without looking they grabbed it.

crockett

I personally wouldn't look at the guy that got him home as the bad guy. If John McCain had gone there and organized the trade, I wouldn't bash him for it.

In my eyes the guy was and still is a soldier. The first order of business is to get him back, once he's back they can sort out the details and so forth. However this whole thing with the right turning it into a feeding frenzy and vilifying the guy before he can even defend himself is just wrong.

One thing is 100% certain if it had been anyone but the white house making this deal, the right wouldn't be going ape shit crazy over it.

Right now there is a American civilian man, women and their child whom was born in captivity being held by the Taliban. I wouldn't give a shit if Obama, McCain or Donald Duck made a deal to trade 20 Taliban to get them back.

They are American citizens and the govt should do everything in it's power to get them back. That's the service the govt owes it's solders and citizens, to do everything in it's power to get you back if you end up as a hostage or captive.

The 5 Taliban were going to be released sooner or later, so at least we got something out of it.

Grapesoda

actually the deal seems to be Obama completely fucked up the speech at west point and decided to 'do a prisoner' swap to get right with the military EXCEPT he swapped an army deserter for the head of he Taliban government... whoops

Rochard

So you think the President fucked up a speech so he ordered the military to take action? That's a bit much.

You do understand this deal was five months in the making, and that the negoation team was on the ground there for weeks before it happened right?

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Rochard

This is how I feel.

We don't know what really happened here, and it doesn't matter. If he was kidnapped we needed to find him and bring him home. If he deserted then we need to hunt him down like a criminal and take action.

At the same time all of this winding down and we are leaving. We need to take care of this now, not wait until McCain thinks it's right.

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TampaToker

Wow i just watched the replay from fox news from the 7pm airing and they actually edited out of the video what i posted above wtf.....

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dyna mo

where did you get the idea he was kidnapped? Because that's the other part of this that makes no sense re: the wh getting involved first hand. I've yet to see any story about how he ended up with the taliban other than his own doing.

I don't give a shit if the pusa is red or blue, but if the WH doesn't know if bergdahl's a hero or criminal, might oughta pass on handing over the presidential podium&mic to the guy and letting him ramble on while the pres stands by. A better way to handle that would have been to skip the show-off parade and be more up front about the guy rather than let the info trickle out from other sources that, oh, the dude may be a fucking criminal.

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bronco67

and one, or all of them have a hellfire missile in their future....so who cares if they're free. Besides, they're Taliban -- not Al Queda.

__________________

tony286

if you read this article , it includes a page from wikileaks.
He did leave his post it seems to take a shit and they got him in the bathroom shitting while the area was under attack.
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2...bowe-bergdahl/
Also his fellow soldiers had nothing to say all those years he was gone ,now they found their voice interesting.I wonder what could of motivated them? Also I figure they had no love for him because he had written his father about how they had ran over kids with military vehicles and nothing happened.

dyna mo

McCaffrey, the general, said that he was ?99.999 percent? certain that the missing private sought out the Taliban, perhaps in an altered state of mind or with an altruistic thought toward helping Afghan children.

?I think he was out there looking to contact the Taliban, figuring they?d help him, and got the shock of this life,? McCaffrey said.

crockett

One thing is certain, the guys that went in to pick him up had pretty big balls. I watched that release video of him from the Taliban.. They had guys positioned all around and several had RPGs loaded and ready. Must of been a pretty tough thing to willingly land a helecopter into the middle of that and wonder if they would try to shoot it down while it was landing or taking off.

Granted we had other choppers and drones ready to strike if they attacked, but that wouldn't of helped the guys in the chopper if they were shot down.

crockett

Do you honestly believe that? I mean really?

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In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

tony286

http://www.latimes.com/world/afghani...ry.html#page=1

One looks bad, the other 4 look like not a big deal. And the one was a big deal a long time ago, you think they were holding his position open?

tony286

Of course he does Obama can never do anything right. If he saved a bus full of school children from going off a cliff. They would find reason why he fucked up and he only did it for political reasons.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5439644.html
"But prior to Bergdahl's release, Republican lawmakers were some of the sergeant's biggest advocates, and repeatedly pressed the administration to do something -- in fact, everything within its power -- to get him returned to the United States.

A May 22 press release from Ayotte's office read, "As part of ongoing efforts to urge the Department of Defense to do all it can to find Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl and bring him home safely, Senator Ayotte worked successfully to include a provision in the bill that presses Pakistan to fully cooperate in the search for SGT Bergdahl."

They also seem to forget all the republicans screaming for the whitehouse to do everything it could to get this guy released. Funny a few months ago, he wasnt this trader and deserter.

The right are running the play book and the sheep are following.

Rochard

At this point we have zero information about what really happened. Obviously one of two things happened here - Either he willingly left his post, or he was taken from his post by force. All we have is a few opinions from a few of the people in his platoon who didn't see what happened, and then greatly exaggerated the truth when they said "eight people died searching for him" (Two died on base when the base was attacked, and six others died months later on routine patrols).

We do not abandon a US Solider on the battlefield because we are "unsure of the circumstances of their disappearance". Nine times out of ten, when someone is taken as a POW, the US Government knows nothing about how it happened until after they are released.

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Rochard

Fucking classic. McCain claimed these were "five top level Taliban" that were "out to kill Americans".

Well, gee, that doesn't sound bad at all. So three of them were government officials BEFORE the US sent toops there, and a fourth was a police officer? Sounds like hard core militants to me all right.

Then we have the fifth one....

Quote:

The fifth, however, has a darker past. Mohammed Fazl was chief of staff of the Taliban army and is accused of commanding forces that massacred hundreds of civilians in the final years of Taliban rule before the 2001 U.S.-led invasion. He was arrested in November 2001 after surrendering to U.S.-allied warlords in northern Afghanistan.

Again, I see.... Before the "US led invasion" in 2001.

McCain calls these "top five Taliban" when the truth is all of them served in the Taliban government before the US invaded in 2001. Factor in that they've been at Gitmo for a decade can you debate they aren't high level at all.

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bronco67

if Obama left him over there to die eventually, there would have been Republican outrage. Any way you look at any issue, there's Republican outrage, as long as it means looking like they're on the opposite side of Obama.

__________________

Rochard

Damned if you do, damned if you don't... Welcome to politics.

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Vendzilla

Just so everyone knows, it's not just republicans

Hillary didn't want it, it's in her book
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/05/politics/clinton-book/

Former officials told CNN earlier this week that Clinton was skeptical of early plans to trade Taliban prisoners, which the Obama administration ultimately did to win Bergdahl's release last week.

Diane Feistein was pissed

Under the National Defense Authorization Act, Obama must notify Congress 30 days in advance of releasing a prisoner from Guantanamo Bay.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...bergdahl-swap/

As far as Bergdahl deserting

read this
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...0120607?page=4

"The future is too good to waste on lies," Bowe wrote. "And life is way too short to care for the damnation of others, as well as to spend it helping fools with their ideas that are wrong. I have seen their ideas and I am ashamed to even be american. The horror of the self-righteous arrogance that they thrive in. It is all revolting."

In the second-to-last paragraph of the e-mail, Bowe wrote about his broader disgust with America's approach to the war ? an effort, on the ground, that seemed to represent the exact opposite of the kind of concerted campaign to win the "hearts and minds" of average Afghans envisioned by counterinsurgency strategists. "I am sorry for everything here," Bowe told his parents. "These people need help, yet what they get is the most conceited country in the world telling them that they are nothing and that they are stupid, that they have no idea how to live." He then referred to what his parents believe may have been a formative, possibly traumatic event: seeing an Afghan child run over by an MRAP. "We don't even care when we hear each other talk about running their children down in the dirt streets with our armored trucks... We make fun of them in front of their faces, and laugh at them for not understanding we are insulting them."

Bowe concluded his e-mail with what, in another context, might read as a suicide note. "I am sorry for everything," he wrote. "The horror that is america is disgusting." Then he signed off with a final message to his mother and father. "There are a few more boxes coming to you guys," he said, referring to his uniform and books, which he had already packed up and shipped off. "Feel free to open them, and use them."

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

and then there is this if you have an doubt

An Army-led investigation, which was conducted in the months after Bergdahl disappeared in 2009, found he left the outpost deliberately and on his own free will, according to a military official who was briefed on the report.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/06/politi...html?hpt=hp_t2

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

bronco67

You know that the details of this deal have been out there in the halls of congress and in the press since 2010...right? These 5 guys are the same 5 who were originally talked about when this deal was being kicked around initially. It shouldn't be any surprise to these hypocrites...that's including the democrats too.

__________________

Vendzilla

Kicked around and a decision are two completely different things.

End result, Obama made the decision without the congress.

Partisan politics has nothing to do with this

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

bronco67

How do you feel about Obama pulling the trigger on Bin Laden? Just wondering if you found something to bitch about there too. Was the correct bullet caliber used?

Just trying to point out something about your rabid black and white conservative ideology that can't see the nuances of any argument.

__________________

Vendzilla

Obama said the word "I" a lot during his speech when he announced that Osama was dead. Like the Seal Team had nothing to do with it.

Obama didn't pull the trigger, but he wanted the world to think he did!

He had more respect for Osama's dead body by throwing it overboard.

I would have soaked his body in pig blood!

And my conservative ideology?
Do you think Diane Feinstein is Conservative?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/...hl-s-life.html

The head of the Senate Intelligence Committee isn’t buying the Obama administration’s excuse for why it kept her and Congress in the dark about the prisoner swap for Bowe Bergdahl. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) said Friday she has “no information” that there was a “credible threat” against Bergdahl’s life from the Taliban. This week, the administration told senators that Bergdahl’s captors threatened to kill him if negotiations became public. (The administration says it feared someone in Congress would’ve leaked it.) Feinstein says the administration should have obeyed a law requiring 30 days’ notice to Congress before releasing prisoners from Gitmo.


It seems you just make it partisan to protect your idiot leader, so try again!

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

TampaToker

With putting all this politic stuff on the sideline for a sec. If Bergdahl was captured while on duty and none of this deserter stuff was on the table would everyone be ok with the trade for the 5 gitmo prisoners?

__________________
Icq 247-742-205

Vendzilla

No. Not political for me. Noorl has already promised to rejoin the fight. People are going to die over this.

Obama had the parents of a deserter on the white house lawn. He should have had the parents of the soldiers that went out over 3 months looking for him and lost their lives.

Every guy in his unit is coming out against this guy.

Diane Feinstein said she has seen nothing that shows bergdahls health was an issue.

After bergdahls left, Taliban tactics changed. That's what one guy in his unit said.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Grapesoda

tony, crookett, if you guys don't want to believe

1. obama spent his time as a community activist finding black people to sue whitey
2. his senate seat went up for sale he didn't know the guys
3. he went to a black church for 20 years where the preacher gave fuck whitey sermons, Obama didn't really know that well.
4. the irs targeted his political opponents (holden said to fuck off, no ones business)
5. he didn't know about bengazi until he saw if on the nightly news, Hillary said 'so what?'
6. he doesn't get involved in local events (the black teacher and the cops, tryvon martin)
7. when Syria started gassing people obamas reaction was to praise gay Olympic athletes
8. when Russia got into the Ukraine Obama praised a gay NFL player
9. Obama would not negotiate with congress on Obama care or the budget BUT negotiates with terrorist ..


then you probably believe bush could have pulled that shit and moved right on along with ut

Grapesoda

yes Obama is a PROUD member of seal team six... btw seal team six didn't what their name mentioned (that's why bengazi went down, Obama was in the field with the team and didn't get the news)

Grapesoda

to be fair I think they guys are more interested in throwing acid is school girls faces rochard

Grapesoda

all I know is the headlines are saying obama fucked up the west point appearance... beats me....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...f0a_story.html

All along, Obama’s weakness has been the lack of a worldview. Problems are approached individually — unconnected to anything else — and often left to languish. We pivot to Asia . . . in a speech. We applaud the Arab Spring and promise hugs and kisses . . . in a speech. We call recent developments in Ukraine a success for U.S. policy, but Russia’s seizure of Crimea stands. Sure, this was not Obama’s fault, but it is not his success, either — and certainly not something to boast about.

What can be done? Although Obama is by nature a prudent man, there’s always the chance that he will overreact, attempt to show he is strong by doing something a tad reckless. In the meantime, no more speeches. They no longer work because they are no longer believed. They are coming attractions for a movie that never opens and merely reminds us all — the world’s bad guys most of all — of the president’s intellectually chaotic and bumbling foreign policy. Fix the policy, then give the speech.

crockett

Can you Fox News a bit more for us please? Not too much though as I'd hate for your head to explode.

TampaToker

So let me ask you this what would be a fair trade to get one of our soldiers back then? If you look back through history and time the west has done a trade its always been a bad trade.

These 5 guys were going home at the end of the year anyways. Yes you are probably right some might join the fight again. But now was the time to use the 5 when can get something in return right?

The right is all ready setting things up and they are giving the Obama admin a way out on this deal. The right is saying they will find Bergdahl incompetent to stand trial and this is not going no were. You will also see that that Obama did not break any laws and what he did was legal.

Anyways both sides are playing there party's on this. They both frigging liars with this issue and other issues. Next week a scandal and both side will play us lie a fiddle again. This us against them mentality is working great for them. More they make us fight with each other less we focus on them. Congress approval rate is 16% and guess what most will when there seats back. The question is who should we be mad at them or ourselves since we are the ones to put them in power.

__________________
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Grapesoda

you know you're fucked up right? you continually accuse us of your own behaviors of absolutely refusing to believe anything that conflicts with your established world view.

Vendzilla

Ok, you think this is an imaginary scandal, I get that. Just remember one thing , Bengdahl will not get civilian doctors, they will get doctors that know how to see thru the shit and are soldiers themselves. Yeah, he could get off, but he could get a firing squad, I for one think he deserves the latter.

Either way, Obama's going get all the credit for this one and I see democrats falling for this in the polls, like what Harry Reed said. I cheer Diane Feistein and personally, I don't like her.

Massive cover up or heads are going to roll.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

TampaToker

I don't know were you got i believe this is a imaginary scandal. My point is both sides are lying there asses off for there own political agenda. So if both sides are lying how the hell the we know what is truth is. This is going to end in a stalemate. But one thing for sure the left and right voters will hate each other more.

Until the American voter can get past this us versus them mentally and start clearing house in there own political party shit is only going to get worse. You can not tell me these over paid political smucks can not compromise on anything. They work for us not the other way around. How many people would be willing to tell there senator or congress man/women they have been voting for "hey get shit done or i am voting you out" I bet you not many. The American people need to pull there head out of there asses.

__________________
Icq 247-742-205

Vendzilla

It's not the American people on this topic, it's people like you that thinks this is partisan politics. That's what the democrats are hoping you will think to some how cover up yet another FUCK UP.


Fact: 5 top Taliban were just released, they have collectively killed thousands of people.

Fact: Obama did so by overriding a law he signed,(2014 National Defense Authorization Act) pissing off Diane Feistein, who said she has seen no evidence that Bergdahl was in bad health and his life was in danger as Obama used as a reason for by passing the law.

Fact: Several soldiers lost their lives looking for Bergdahl during the 3 following months on daily excursions from the camp.

Fact: Several Soldiers from Bergdahl's unit came out as saying he deserted and that's backed up by the Army in their investigation.


So tell me this, where in the FUCK do you see partisan politics? What kind of a MORON would see partisan politics any fucking where in this?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Rochard

Seems all of the "Taliban" traded were of little importance. They were all Taliban government officials before the US invaded.

__________________
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Vendzilla

You're an idiot!!!!

Noori, 47, was one of the Taliban?s most vicious commanders, according to reports.
He was believed to have been present at a 2001 prison riot that led to the death of Johnny Michael Spann, a CIA operative who was the first American killed in the Afghan war.
He?s also been implicated in the murders of thousands of Shiites who opposed the Taliban.
Americans aren?t alone in their rage over the deal.
Many Afghans are equally horrified.

Among the others released was Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Fazl, who orchestrated some of the most horrific carnage in the country, including torching homes and executing their opponents in one village.
His freedom infuriated survivors who will never forget the slaughter of their friends and relatives.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

crockett

Look, I realize it's easy to get reassured of your thoughts on forums when several you you guys go to circle jerking. However you really should look outside the bubble and see that most people of the world think you right wingers are crazy.

__________________
In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

TampaToker

Fact still stands as of right now the trade Obama did was legal like the trade or not. For example of partisan politics "Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) warned Wednesday that Republican lawmakers would call for President Obama?s impeachment if he released more prisoners from Guantanamo Bay without congressional approval."

Guess what that's not going to happen its grandstanding to his base and now pissed off democrats. So its ok now that Obama did it but if he does it again then they will impeach him wtf? If what he did was illegal and put America in harms way by releasing the "5 top Taliban" they are going to give him a free pass but now if he releases low risk guys now then will impeach once again wtf! I could go on and on but its just a waste of time since i am a moron and don't know what im talking about.

You need to look into what signing statements are and educate yourself some. Signing statements are written comments issued by the President upon the signing of a bill into law. There is no provision in the Constitution or the law that explicitly permits or prohibits the use of signing statements. "Bush broke all records, using signing statements to challenge about 1,200 sections of bills over his eight years in office, about twice the number challenged by all previous presidents combined, according to data compiled by Christopher Kelley, a political science professor at Miami University in Ohio" Were was the outrage then?

President Reagan issued 250 signing statements, 86 of which (34%) contained provisions objecting to one or more of the statutory provisions signed into law. President George H. W. Bush continued this practice, issuing 228 signing statements, 107 of which (47%) raised objections. President Clinton?s conception of presidential power proved to be largely consonant with that of the preceding two administrations. In turn, President Clinton made aggressive use of the signing statement, issuing 381 statements, 70 of which (18%) raised constitutional or legal objections. President George W. Bush has continued this practice, issuing 152 signing statements, 118 of which (78%) contain some type of challenge or objection.

Im pissed with Obama for doing what he said he was not going to do by using a signing statement. Until signing statements are ruled unconstitutional and challenged in court shit is only going to get worse and there will be more.

So please explain to me how a bitcoin token 40 year old porn slinger understands what is going on but not these highly educated politicians. So the next politician republican or democrat to say what Obama did was illegal is either lying or uneducated and in both cases they need to go! We really need to be putting pressure on these fucks in Washington about the VA issue and that gone from the headlines on both sides of the media outlets.

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TampaToker

The more i think about this the more it pisses me off you want shit like Obama did not to happen again? Write or email Ted Cruz he is the ranking member of The Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution. Hell he is going to run for president so this would be a great bill to introduce to do away with signing statements. Lets see were it goes

__________________
Icq 247-742-205

Vendzilla

Ok so you are for putting terrorist back in the world. I understand you know.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

crockett

He bitched and complained about that as well. He went on endlessly about how horrible it was for Obama to say "I made the call".. As if that somehow made the soldiers role any less important.