I like to listen to many opinions and sources...
the words that you qouted from me were adressed to cyberseo....

ok, tambien...maybe i was too sceptical/ cynical (like I am always)...but you know what happens if you put out away your scepticism levels ? sometimes it's even worse...

it is always difficult to have everyone in "nation" happy...so...maybe it would be better to have standards in politics and allow each individual from nation be happy from their hard work ?

NATO and US tactic:
- make chaos
- divide country, get east vs west going
- get country to be very unstable
- make grivna worthless
- make a run on banks (people will then withdraw money at the same time)
- collapse banks
- sell people "democracy" and "dreams"
- make Ukraine sign euro agreement (say goodbye to pensions and all that)
- get Ukraine take major loans with a lot of rules in them
- flood Ukraine with European product
- nobody will buy Ukrainian products
- all major production plants will shut down, since no one will buy
- get European companies to come, buy out everything including land

now Ukraine will be a slave forever, and population will decrease by 1/3 since most will leave poverty (not sure where they'll go since whole EU is fucked)

btw, I do agree Yanukovich had to go, that idiot stole from people like crazy....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YJC6VMs720...4/s1600/kw.jpg

man, what you suggest isn't bad at all, it's another proof outsiders don't know shit about Ukrainian reality.
You watch a lot of Russian tv.

Пиздец, вот кто такой Добкин, блеать....

http://oi61.tinypic.com/35bxx7b.jpg

explain your point of view plz.
Is this a pro european revolution ?

if the Ukraine needs money now, they should ask Achmetow. he has approx. 10 billion euro thanks to the protection from Yanukovich

Precisley like that, few steps missing but that is all.

and you know? please share with us... you really think signing with EU will automatically make Ukrainian people well off? EU don't give a fuck about you or Ukraine, they just want to sell their products to 50mill people, and be closer to Russia with their "missile defense"

yes, exactly, thats the plan, the EU (which is not a military organisation) wants to be closer with "their" missile defense... :upsidedow

russian tv?

that's it in a nutsell.

to be specific for dumb idiots like you, EU meaning NATO and their American friends... Russians got their black fleet in Sevastopol

no no no.
Here, you don't listen that this revolution is for independence.
France TV claims a similar thing: that this revolution is for europe and against evil putin

i don't know if you can watch this channel (probably not available in your country)

http://www.france5.fr/emissions/c-da...et=tous&page=1

here you could think (i could think) that this revolution is manipulated by france.
Last week, i watched the german tv and they were more moderated on the ukrainian revolution, so it is not the EU that controls things. The USA seems probably involved too...

Notice also what happens meanwhile in venezuela...

Can you name at least ONE country that was "made" to join the EU?

whats the point of personal insults? Did I call you an idiot or dumb? Not capable of having a civilized discussion?

EU is not NATO and no one offered the Ukraine becoming a EU member. not in the foreseeable future anyways

this all is about free trade - at least it was in the beginning

and of course Russia isnt happy but as far as i know the Ukraine is an independent country and not part of the USSR anymore

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to find out that all of us (you, me and Sig70) have the same knowledge about the situation in Ukraine. Our sources are quite the same too: Internet (perhaps you're also watching so-called TV "news", while I'm not) and our buddies/relatives in Ukraine :2 cents:

You? :winkwink:

seriously, if you can speak french, listen to this link it's obvious propaganda

EU is not an organization (it's a union) while NATO is... :winkwink:

Oops double post :)

It's not about joining :2 cents:

Correct! And that will kill the dying Ukrainian economics completely. Smart more ;)

even if you say it twice - i am still not stupid

dude, what free trade? EU will not buy anything from Ukraine, it will just sell EU products in Ukraine, how is that a free trade? that's economic suicide for Ukraine. Most Ukrainian plans are geared towards Russia from selling chocolate to aviation parts for plains, helicopters, etc, who exactly going to buy that in EU? Russia will just get fed up with it and open their own plants in Russia, collapsing Ukraine even more...

I'm all for Ukrainian people living better (because i am Ukrainian), they're tired of corruption, but joining EU is not the answer at all.

It was the same with Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary when they lost russian market. It took time to recover and switch economy to more competitive but it was worth it and they export lots of products to other EU countries. It is just the way to improve not a goal by itself.

It was the same with Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary when they lost russian market. It took time to recover and switch economy to more competitive but it was worth it and they export lots of products to other EU countries. It is just the way to improve not a goal by itself.

oya? says who? directly from wikipedia "In recent years, Poland's population has decreased due to an increase in emigration and a sharp decline in the birth rate. Since Poland's accession to the European Union, a significant number of Poles have emigrated, primarily to the United Kingdom, Germany and Republic of Ireland in search of better work opportunities abroad. In April 2007, the Polish population of the United Kingdom had risen to approximately 300,000, and estimates place the Polish population in Ireland at 65,000. Some sources claim that the number of Polish citizens who emigrated to the UK after 2004 is as high as 2 million."

Then, everything is fine. In a few days money will start to roll in, everyone will be happy, one of the most important figures in political life will be a guy that most of his life was getting punches in the head and another half didn't even live in Ukraine, Russians will simply forget savagery , leave military base and forget own population. They will probably give gas even lower then until now.

Somehow ,EU will help Ukraine without asking anything, even if they couldn't fix own members like Greece. Beside boxer, prosperity of country is secure with guys like this:



Suddenly, way of thinking of people will change, (even if nothing happened in last two revolutions in last 20 years) and from some strange reason,there will be no corruption and stealing, anymore. Just like that.

Also, since this is capitalism, other countries will simply give tons of money to Ukraine , just to help and see Ukrainians satisfied and happy.

Foreign debt will be smaller and smaller every year and other countries will encourage Ukraine to produce what they are already producing, and probably will stop own production, just to help Ukrainians sell their new products.

these countries had already an industry
But they could use ukraine as a cheap workforce (i guess that romania will become too expensive soon) :2 cents:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...k_2194965b.jpg

:winkwink:


btw his weapon is not the weapon for a real nazi.

that's better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkssturmgewehr_1-5

THIS!.:thumbsup

Cool. Now the facts. For example, during the last year, Ukraine has sold 51 million tons of rolled steel. The EU quote is only 1 million (only 2%). So, what will happen to Ukrainian steel rolling industry after the association? What will happen to all the people that work there? Let's speak with actual numbers but not general words.

they gonna close arcelormittal florange, because mittal hates competitor ? :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArcelorMittal


i don't understand why steel matters here ?

because it is only thing that they will be have to eat,soon.

a lot of people will be out of work

trust me, it is better in EU for Poland than it would be outside EU. (or with Russia).

it is always good to have choice, even to go to foreign country and work your ass off there...than to not have choice and starve in your own country ... what do you think sbout that :-PP

Ukraine selling lots of cam shows to EU.

respect UA!

:1orglaugh

I've fixed that for you :winkwink:

Of course it is! Because now you can freely left Poland and move to the UK or say to Spain... and officially get a plumber job there :2 cents:

thats one of the reasons :>

Ukrainians will NEVER get a work permit.

Because of media blockade there are many things hidden.
Odessa:


If info are correct, on parliament building in Kharkiv, there is Russian flag.
Voulonteers are coming with boats coming to Crimea.

51 respected citizen of Odessa sent a letter to Putin and asked for help. They are also asking for Russian language to be brought back.

Around parilament in Crimea there are barricades and armed people took it over and put Russian flag. Thousands of citizens are going there asking for their right to referendum and constitution from 1992.

Russain aircrafts are in stater of readiness. : http://translate.google.com/translat... _id%3D817236

It seems like state of lawlessnessin Kiew. Can someone please translate this ?

Yes, I know that. Because the EU does not need 50 millions of plumbers. Thus only association was suggested to them.

On a side note, there are lots of Ukrainian citizens work in Russia (usually in low-paying occupations). Don't want to sound offensive, but according to the police stats, most of prostitutes in Moscow are came from Moldova and Ukraine. I don't want to say they are bad people or something like that. They just really poor and desperate. I don't think the EU will be happy of millions poor people coming in :2 cents:

On first video people in Odessa chanting: "Russia! Russia! Fascism shall not pass!". On the second video some armed bandits on gas station are interrogate transport Police patrols on why they are left their "place of dislocation" and who allowed them to fill their cars and buy ice-cream there. They believe they are new power there :disgust

2nd video: now this is funny...citizens asking police guys for documents !.... where it was shooted ? where in ukraine ?

Kiev I think.

Actually everyone can ask a policeman to show the id. Can't say for the Ukraine, but here in Russia, police officers MUST show their ids to anyone who's asking for it. So I don't see anything strange on that. The strange thing on video is that armed civilians are interrogating police patrols in a rude form like masters speaks to their slaves. This looks like a pure anarchy to me :2 cents: