Obama lover
A follower of Barrack Hussein Obama. Someone who blindly follows Obama no mater what he says or does. Most Obama lovers are liberals who reject any valid criticism of Obama, and often refer to his critics as "racists". Obamalovers are often unreasonable and are not able to partake in any discussions that might have negative reflections on Obama.
1) That Obama lover doesn't understand that printing and spending money without the wealth to back it up will cause severe inflation and devalue the dollar.

2)That Obama lover became really upset when I told him that I thought Obama was inexperienced and unqualified to serve as president.




Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go. Barack Obama

You two should get a room already..

It's Not like I posted a direct link to Politifact's article on this very subject that said it was "mostly false".

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...ull-time-jobs-

Of course it doesn't say what either of you want to read, meaning it's obviously wrong. As always you are both right, everyone else just doesn't get it...

You cherry one little part of the report while ignoring the rest..

Of course you ignore the rest because it doesn't fit the agenda..

Don't let me get In The way of you two's circle jerk though,.. I'm sure you two can give each other a few more attaboys before the night is over..

crockett, which is correct: The CBO report OR Politifact's spin on it?

Are you really not getting it? Come on!

You didn't post that url correctly. But from looking at what the URL says...it appears that it's Politifacts spinning off of something that Gretchen Carlson spun from the "other side" on Fox News.

Jesus man. What the fuck does Gretchen Carlson's dumb ass OPINION or Politifacts dumbass OPINION about her dumbass OPINION have to do with what the report itself plainly says?

Seriously? Are you going to pretend that you can't read the report for YOURSELF and see what it says in plain English?

Or would you rather get your info from Politifact spinning about Gretchen Carlson spinning?

There really isn't much hope for this country with this kind of thinking.

He posted a single line from the report and didn't represent what it said in context with the entire report. He cherry picked one line and ignored the rest,,

Why did he do that? We all know why, because that's what he was spoon fed from Fox News. He then ran here to tell us all how horrible Obamacare is, yet once again.

The CBO did not say the economy was not going to get better because of Obamacare. That is what Fox News said and it's HIS opinion not what was presented in that report.

He cherry picked a single line from a report that is about 200 pages long because it said a cut in jobs. He didn't however read the report or even the single page he claimed proved his point. He listened to Fox News or some right wing tell him what he wanted to hear website..

Why do I know he didn't read even page 118? Why? Because on the very page HE listed as HIS proof goes on to disprove the message he is trying to present. You guys cherry picked a single sentence from a paragraph in a report almost 200 pages long. In that paragraph you cherry picked a single sentence from, it goes on state what I quoted above...but hey since I know you guys didn't read it anyway I'll quote it again..

It's funny how he managed to selectively ignore what the entire paragraph stated, simply because he read a single sentence out of context provided by Fox News trying to make it seem as if these cut jobs would cause people to suck on the govt tit.

BTW since I know you guys didn't read the report in the first place as you just took what Fox News spoon fed you hook line and sinker, I bet you also missed the part where the report sates that the exchanges will save on average an additional 15% on healthcare polices for 2014 over what was projected in 2013. Humm sounds like the exchanges are doing what they were supposed to do.. Create open competition to lower prices...

It also goes on to state that 2015-17 period the govt will now save 8 billion in risk corridor payments because it was cut in half, from 16 billion to 8 billion..

You can find that nugget on page 114 btw...

You cannot debate to save your life. I am not cherry picking anything.

He places blame on the intelligence in the first line: "It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong." He is clearly placing blame on the bad intelligence.

YOU are the one who cherry picks stats. You posted a link to a long and detailed report that painted a very pretty picture on unemployment, the deficit, housing, healthcare, and every aspect of the economy and tried to paint it in a bad light, and failed in a horrible way.

He took responsibility for Iraq and the bad intelligence, can't you read?

This isn't a debate, this is what HE said. Ignoring what he said when he took responsibility isn't going to make you right

I didn't fail anything, it came from the CBO, the head of the CBO didn't think it was a good thing when he gave an interview.

Go back read it again, this time try a little harder to understand it Richard

"The act creates a disincentive for people to work."
- Douglas Elmendorf, CBO Director

Fuck Richard, do you read anything? The link I posted was from the CBO's actual report, what exactly are you debating? How can you debate it, it's the CBO report?
I didn't give any opinion, I asked a question
Please tell the class how asking a question can be wrong?

I dunno who Richard is, but I take it you are just going to ignore that I just shot your entire basis behind this topic down yet again? Guess you can start a new topic now and pretend to forget about this one, just like you forgot about the last one in which You were also proven wrong and also cherry picking .

You know the topic where you thought it was normal for a charity to hand out money to politicians and hand out shotguns to good ol white people and that there could be no possible reason they should be under extra scrutiny.

Can't wait til the next topic where you don't look any further than the cherry picked info you hear from your favorite entertainment news source.

He's not hardly going to post the entire 200 page report. If you have an issue with the part(s) he did post then prove it wrong.

Venz read as much of that report as Obama did the ACA laws..yet now it's a law and if you don't follow that law you will get fined...or I guess taxed.

Also, a CBO report..entertainment? The site that numb-nuts the cartoon poster referenced is an entertainment/opinion site.

He didn't need to post 200 pages.. He only needed to read the paragraph in which his entire post was biased on. I realize you guys love to stick up for each other Minte ,but don't you think that if you really wanted other people to be convinced that you are right, that you would at least present the info in accurate form?

He copied and pasted a single sentence then went on to tell us his opinion on how that one sentence proved that Obamacare was going to cause the economy to fail and it's just the proof he needed to tell us all once again how bad Obamacare is.

Other people came in and showed him that the cut in jobs was not due to companies cutting back, but rather people quitting jobs that they only had to have insurance. Of course he claimed it was BS opinion but it wasn't it was right from the same report he used to create this topic. Of course we now have 6 pages of arguing based on his misrepresentation of using a single sentence out of context.

After I posted it in context as it shows in the actual report it's amazing that it says just what others in this topic said it did and vend and the others kept denying.

Don't you think if you wanted to convince people you were right, that it's best to use facts and present them with out cherry picking and trying to make it seem it says something it doesn't? Of course not if you have a an agenda which is harmed by actual truth and facts..

As far as entertainment.. That's in reference to the fact we all know he didn't read the 200 page report and think up his opinion on it all by him self. Fox News did a piece on the report and you guessed it, they cherry picked this very sentence that Vendy here used for his argument. It's pretty obvious that he knew we would all point and laugh at something from Fox News, so instead he linked to the report to try and hide that he was spoon fed it from Fox.

I first posted a link to Politifact where they debunked that actual report from Fox News as "mostly false". I did this on the 2nd page and here were are page 6 with pages of denial from Vend and his followers even though the facts have been posted more than once,

News is about bullet points. I went to page 117 of the CBO pdf and read what Venz posted in context. If anyone wants to read the entire report it's there. I still have no idea how you can refute the statement he posted.

It's right there on the Congressional Budget Report. I could take a screen capture of it and post it. If he had posted the entire page, you would've picked one statement and argued it. Completely ignoring everything else.

At the end of the day, I don't really care much about any of it. If Obamacare is a good thing for the nation then great.. if not, it will crash and burn. The republicans will win the senate, and that will be the end of obamacare as it's currently written.

Officially, take out the mandate. Acknowledge the fact that we have millions of illegal aliens in the country and they will need healthcare too. I am not against healthcare reform. I pay the premium for a large group. It's ridiculous at how much we pay for garbage coverage.
Something needs to be fixed. But not obamacare as it's written.

You are dead wrong. You say he accepted blame. In the very first sentence of him accepting blame he blamed it on someone else. Accepting blame is saying "I accept 100% blame and I am sorry for all of the families who lost loved once and the damage I did to our country". Instead he placed blame on "bad intelligence", and then of all things said "We needed to do it anyhow" as if it was no big deal.

Christie didn't accept blame either. He fired a scapegoat and is trying to move on.


This entire thread is fail on your part, again. You do this all the time - In a report that details how our economy is improving and makes Obama look like a savior, you picked one things that sounded bad. The Republicans were instantly all over this one little bit and tired to make it sound horrible.

The truth is, once again, this is a good thing. Two million people who do not need to be in the work place will leave, opening up two million jobs.

You keep trying to make Obama look bad and you continue to fail at it.

Vendzilla - and Fox News - took a single sentence out of context. They took a long and detailed report that was over all good and desperately tried to turned into an opportunity to bash Obamacare yet again.

Vendzilla highlighted:

But if you read the entire paragraph you find...

People will be working less not because they will be unemployed, but because they will be able to work less to get healthcare.

I'm sorry, but at this point the Republican party is nothing more than sore losers who are kicking a dead horse. The Republican party has put a huge amount of effort trying to get Obamacare shut down, and failed at every attempt - They even brought it all the way up to the Supreme Court and failed to get it knocked down.

If only the Republican party had put it's efforts into fixing the problem instead of complaining about....

You have car insurance, don't you?

I posted the entire paragraph.. No one is refuting that the sentence is in the report it's there I posted it in my quote. What we are refuting is what Vend went on to say by "using" the sentence out of context. He's trying to say that because there will be a cut in jobs that that equals Obamacare is hurting the economy.

When myself and others brought up the fact that it's people choosing to leave jobs because they don't need them just for insurance. We were told that obviously everyone wants to work and any job cuts means people sucking off the govt tit. Robbie went on to mimic this very position. 12clicks as well..

This was 12clicks little gem..

Robbie went on to tell how everyone should want to work, because he has no intention to ever retire. Meaning there obviously can't be any reason people would quit their jobs unless they are lazy...

Here is one of his gems from this topic...

Obviously it's all Obamacares fault... Relentless went on to post yet another article that debunked the idea and rather than reading the article and debating it. Robbie just claimed Rolling Stone is too liberal so obviously the article can't be correct...

Vend went on to tell us again ACA was gonna kill all the jobs ...again..

The funny thing, is the report actually stated that the workforce would grow, despite the 2 million expected jobs that people will leave because they no longer need it. Hey of course Vend didn't read that part of page 117 either...


Honestly Minte you are a fairly smart guy I'd assume. Do yo really think spreading ignorance as Vend does daily with half facts and cherry picked info is the best way to convince people that Republican's stance is correct? If they are correct, then why is it they always resort to trying to fool people?

Car insurance is a choice, let me know when I have to pay for it or I get fined please.

I can take the bus, walk or get a ride from someone.

Yea I know, the sad fact is their fan base actually believes it's the other way around. It's no wonder they always want to cut funding to education and teach creationism in schools. Their dumbing down of America is the only way they stand a chance..

LOL, REALLY?

Geez, Richard.
The CBO is saying the the employment or work force is getting smaller and the economy is not getting better, that's what I said in the OP
http://vendzilla.com/cbo.jpg
from the first page on the CBO
Shows no economic growth and a smaller work force

Where the hell did we lose you?

The Faux News / Hate Radio propaganda machine has proven itself capable of totally brainwashing the ignorant. It's really too bad.

I am going to sum all of that up as briefly as possible. I am a member of the Chamber of Commerce, The Les Aspin Institute, The State of WI. Manufacturers Association, and the State of WI. apprenticeship division. Since Obamacare first became law it has been a hot topic at every meeting I attend. All of my daily business time is spent with other business people. Mostly in manufacturing and in the supply chain.

Since obamacare became law it has been viewed by everyone I deal with as a negative on the economy and their individual businesses. For the first 2 years since it was passed, there was the unknown, It put a big gray cloud. People that had money to invest didn't because they weren't sure what the impact of obamacare would be. Once it became more clear what the impact was going to be, people started planning for it. That was important. Business people do much better when they can plan, rather than simply reacting.

Unfortunately, from what I hear the planning for it stage is not going to do much to grow the economy. A lot of business people still hold out hope that the mandate will be dropped. If you don't believe me..look up the growth in the machine tool industry, They are doing great.
Selling lots of new automated equipment.

You can argue the point about whether automation will add jobs. It's what I do for a living and I can say with certainty it won't add jobs. It will add profits.

Too late to edit:

As long as the federal government is willing to borrow money to pump crazy amounts of cash into the ecomony, you can rest assured that people like me in manufacturing will be more than happy to take it. :) And I do have a nice liquid savings account for when no one wants to lend the US anymore money.

Automation is not a result of Obamacare.. It's a result of technology and it's gone on since Henry Ford created the first assembly line. China where they pay people $30 a month and then take half of it back in forced housing fees is also using robots. Automation is not just about cutting labor costs but also about doing a more precise, uniform and efficient job.

Chinese factories aren't cutting $30 dollar a month labor in exchange for robots that cost from $300k to a million dollars. It's obviously more profitable for them to keep the cheap labor, if you only take labor expense into account. However the robots are more efficient and do a more precise jobs which ends up creating more profit because they do a better job faster.

They don't have Obamacare in China.. 8)

You can spin it however you want.This isn't China. I don't need a 200 page report to learn that obamacare is hurting the economy. Robots aren't anywhere near that expensive today. We bought a new panasonic recently. Turnkey = $68,000.
Before obamacare we would've hired a couple of welders. If you didn't make large quantities of any one part robots were hard to justify. Today, they are not hard to justify.

When did this thread become about Fox News.

It's about the CBO report, no propaganda

Who's brainwashed and ignorant?

LOL, 7 pages of people posting saying the CBO report is wrong, geez!

The fact that people buy into this political spin of "job-lock" is really a testament to how stupid and ridiculous some in this country are.

It's widely acknowledged the economy is lagging due to the labor market. The Fed (who basically run the economy) are not happy inflation is too low, and are concerned with deflation (think of the amazing economic Carter years in the 70s!). The believe inflation is so low because the labor market is so crappy and most people are out of work (and therefore cant spend), that the economy isn't picking up, and prices aren't going up over time. This is a really really bad thing, because if prices fall over time, then people dont buy things thinking shit is cheaper into the future, and it's a downward spiral.

3 years ago, the Fed said, when unemployment hit 6.5%, they'd start to raise interest rates (because they'd assume with jobs inflation would pick up), except one thing happened.... the unemployment rate started to drop not because we started adding so many jobs, but because people started to leave the work force for a variety of reasons (aging baby boomers, frustrated they couldn't find work, etc). So the fed said, the new trigger for raising interest rates will be an inflation target, not an unemployment rate target. Look at today, the unemployment rate is 6.6%, can you imagine what would happen if the Fed started to raise interest rates? My statement infers that there would be no more taper, (so an immediate termination of 65b a month in asset purchases), plus they would literally begin to go into rounds 1 and 2 of QE and begin to raise interest rates. It would be turmoil, and we'd likely go right back into recession.

Now people have another reason to leave the work force, because they are afraid they would fail to quality for Obamacare subsidies, adding another headache to the mix. There's an incentive not to work, to not participate in the labor force. The Fed wants inflation. The Fed knows people need to work and make $ to spend, which drives inflation. A CBO report on Obamacare suggests that the equivalent of 2.5m jobs will be lost in the form of people electing not to work, because Obamamcare incentivizes them not to work, in order to qualify for Obamacare subsidies.

So in this context, can someone explain to me how a CBO report stating that Obamacare will disincentivize people to work because as they make more $, they will fail to qualify for Obamacare subsidies is a good thing for the economy?

Any Obamapologist, explain this to me... The reality is the report was incredibly damaging to Obamacare and if you need any affirmation, you can look at their "political spin." When in the last 4 years did any Democrat boast that Obamacare will free you from "job-lock"? - Never. It's pure and total political spin, and you shouldn't buy into it.

crockett, I'm obviously not communicating in a way that you are understanding.

I'll try one more time.

The paragraph you quoted is EXACTLY what I am saying is BAD.

The "Affordable Health Care Act" is disincentivizing peole to work.
Less people in the workforce. Smaller tax base. Smaller economy. Bigger debt.

I don't even know what the heck you are arguing about. We AGREE on that part.

The thing we disagree on is that you seem to think this is a GOOD thing.

Now you can keep on insulting me all you want and ramble on about "Fox News" until you turn red in the face.
It doesn't change what Al Gore would call the "Inconvenient Truth"

The only thing I see you (as you parrot the talking points from Nancy Pelosi and the big Democrat Party machine) doing is spinning this and trying to make 2.5 million MORE people leaving the work force a "good" thing.

I would like to stay civil in this discussion. And I've asked you to please keep it in the arena of ideas.

But every post you make is some kind of insult slinging and name calling.
Pathetic.

You should post more, you understand this very well. Great post!!

Nah...he isn't repeating the zombie-like talking points from the big Democrat Party Machine. He obviously doesn't "get it"

If he isn't in lockstep with the Democrat spin talking points then he must just be brainwashed from Fox News.

Perhaps one day, when he gets a "thrill up his leg" when Obama speaks like Chris Matthews does, he will become "enlightened" and learn to NOT believe that CBO report and ONLY believe the spin on the report that is put out by pro-Obama websites.

Careful with the sarcasm, crockett and Rochard are already confussed

No Robbie you just don't see the difference in people that HAVE to work just to get insurance vs having the OPTION to not keep a second job that they only needed for insurance. You are acting as if all able bodies should have to work or else they are lazy bums.

No it's just 7 pages you circle jerking with Robbie and ignoring what the report actually said.

Which is odd because everyone I've discussed it with tells me it's going to lower their healthcare costs in a huge way.

It's going to hurt businesses? Fuck 'em. No worries, they'll find a way to write it off their taxes.

Ok, you win.

Last week the Democrat party told you that "income inequality" HAD to be addressed NOW. The minimum wage MUST be raised. That way we don't think about obamacare

This week? The CBO report BURNS them on obamacare

So quickly, do a 180!
Jobs?
We don't need no stinking jobs!
Extra income?
Hell no!
But what about "income inequlity"? How does leaving the workforce and taking money from the govt help that?

"Don't worry about what we said last week Robbie! And furthermore, there will be no actual debate on this! If you don't groupthink with the big Democrat machine, then I'll just ignore the actual issue and say you are jerking with Vendzilla. And next week we will change the national conversation again so NOTHING is ever answered." :(

Again with the rock solid economic arguments that ultimately benefit all. Thank god we have people like you while still mired in the worst economic recovery every in the history of the US economy. Gives me hope.

Yeah, hard to compare with Minte's rock solid economic arguments about his fellow business owners who are concerned over a small increase in cost - verses someone who spends 40% of their income on healthcare because of pre-existing medical conditions....

35% approval for Obamacare
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...-all-time-low/

>38%
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4494074.html

41%
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/0...ll-103117.html

31%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...ealth_care_law

You need to get out more

It must really suck to be you. Raise the bar Stud. You spend too much time with poor people.

Because you don't own and run a large business, you don't understand that ANY increase in costs are a big deal.