America's obsesion with security is reaching it's utlimate resut. Police State.

[sperbonzo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us...pagewanted=all

"Ve vant to see your papers...."


......"Civil liberties groups say that the VIPR teams have little to do with the agency?s original mission to provide security screenings at airports and that in some cases their actions amount to warrantless searches in violation of constitutional protections.

?The problem with T.S.A. stopping and searching people in public places outside the airport is that there are no real legal standards, or probable cause,? said Khaliah Barnes, administrative law counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington. ?It?s something that is easily abused because the reason that they are conducting the stops is shrouded in secrecy.?

T.S.A. officials respond that the random searches are ?special needs? or ?administrative searches? that are exempt from probable cause because they further the government?s need to prevent terrorist attacks.

Created in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the T.S.A. has grown to an agency of 56,000 people at 450 American airports. The VIPR teams were started in 2005, in part as a reaction to the Madrid train bombing in 2004 that killed 191 people.

The program now has a $100 million annual budget and is growing rapidly, increasing to several hundred people and 37 teams last year, up from 10 teams in 2008. T.S.A. records show that the teams ran more than 8,800 unannounced checkpoints and search operations with local law enforcement outside of airports last year, including those at the Indianapolis 500 and the Democratic and Republican national political conventions.

The teams, which are typically composed of federal air marshals, explosives experts and baggage inspectors, move through crowds with bomb-sniffing dogs, randomly stop passengers and ask security questions. "......






.

[Rochard]

But at a certain point in time, we need this. Such attacks can happen anywhere at any time. Subways are a target, always have been, train stations, any kind of social event.

I was thinking about this the other day at a high school football game - A thousand people and no one even thought about checking bags. (We won, 47-2.) Yesterday there was a shooting at a mall in NJ; We talk about armed guards in schools to protect children but never armed guards at entrances to malls?

I have no problems with added security at all. You want to check my ID, check my bags, check my car? No problem. Worst thing I carry these days is a Redbull.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But at a certain point in time, we need this. Such attacks can happen anywhere at any time. Subways are a target, always have been, train stations, any kind of social event.

I was thinking about this the other day at a high school football game - A thousand people and no one even thought about checking bags. (We won, 47-2.) Yesterday there was a shooting at a mall in NJ; We talk about armed guards in schools to protect children but never armed guards at entrances to malls?

I have no problems with added security at all. You want to check my ID, check my bags, check my car? No problem. Worst thing I carry these days is a Redbull.

sounds wise

what is your position on rounding up all the illegals and dumping them into work camps?

that way you know for sure they're working

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But at a certain point in time, we need this. Such attacks can happen anywhere at any time. Subways are a target, always have been, train stations, any kind of social event.

I was thinking about this the other day at a high school football game - A thousand people and no one even thought about checking bags. (We won, 47-2.) Yesterday there was a shooting at a mall in NJ; We talk about armed guards in schools to protect children but never armed guards at entrances to malls?

I have no problems with added security at all. You want to check my ID, check my bags, check my car? No problem. Worst thing I carry these days is a Redbull.

Armed rent-a-cops will either be on the other side of the building or the first ones shot in any kind of attack or shooting. They won't stop anything.

The idea of ME an American citizen being stopped for a "routine check" is appalling.


.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But at a certain point in time, we need this. Such attacks can happen anywhere at any time. Subways are a target, always have been, train stations, any kind of social event.

I was thinking about this the other day at a high school football game - A thousand people and no one even thought about checking bags. (We won, 47-2.) Yesterday there was a shooting at a mall in NJ; We talk about armed guards in schools to protect children but never armed guards at entrances to malls?

I have no problems with added security at all. You want to check my ID, check my bags, check my car? No problem. Worst thing I carry these days is a Redbull.

maybe ask yourself why is this security needed, and what causes that need .....

[noshit]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But at a certain point in time, we need this. Such attacks can happen anywhere at any time. Subways are a target, always have been, train stations, any kind of social event.

I was thinking about this the other day at a high school football game - A thousand people and no one even thought about checking bags. (We won, 47-2.) Yesterday there was a shooting at a mall in NJ; We talk about armed guards in schools to protect children but never armed guards at entrances to malls?

I have no problems with added security at all. You want to check my ID, check my bags, check my car? No problem. Worst thing I carry these days is a Redbull.

Emotionally bonding with an abuser is actually a strategy for survival. But there is help:
Stockholm Syndrome

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But at a certain point in time, we need this. Such attacks can happen anywhere at any time. Subways are a target, always have been, train stations, any kind of social event.

I was thinking about this the other day at a high school football game - A thousand people and no one even thought about checking bags. (We won, 47-2.) Yesterday there was a shooting at a mall in NJ; We talk about armed guards in schools to protect children but never armed guards at entrances to malls?

I have no problems with added security at all. You want to check my ID, check my bags, check my car? No problem. Worst thing I carry these days is a Redbull.

it's time to think about your childrens future.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us...pagewanted=all

"Ve vant to see your papers...."


......"Civil liberties groups say that the VIPR teams have little to do with the agency?s original mission to provide security screenings at airports and that in some cases their actions amount to warrantless searches in violation of constitutional protections.

?The problem with T.S.A. stopping and searching people in public places outside the airport is that there are no real legal standards, or probable cause,? said Khaliah Barnes, administrative law counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington. ?It?s something that is easily abused because the reason that they are conducting the stops is shrouded in secrecy.?

T.S.A. officials respond that the random searches are ?special needs? or ?administrative searches? that are exempt from probable cause because they further the government?s need to prevent terrorist attacks.

Created in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the T.S.A. has grown to an agency of 56,000 people at 450 American airports. The VIPR teams were started in 2005, in part as a reaction to the Madrid train bombing in 2004 that killed 191 people.

The program now has a $100 million annual budget and is growing rapidly, increasing to several hundred people and 37 teams last year, up from 10 teams in 2008. T.S.A. records show that the teams ran more than 8,800 unannounced checkpoints and search operations with local law enforcement outside of airports last year, including those at the Indianapolis 500 and the Democratic and Republican national political conventions.

The teams, which are typically composed of federal air marshals, explosives experts and baggage inspectors, move through crowds with bomb-sniffing dogs, randomly stop passengers and ask security questions. "......






.

next you will be saying where were the police. can't have it both ways public shootings are more and more

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But at a certain point in time, we need this. Such attacks can happen anywhere at any time. Subways are a target, always have been, train stations, any kind of social event.

I was thinking about this the other day at a high school football game - A thousand people and no one even thought about checking bags. (We won, 47-2.) Yesterday there was a shooting at a mall in NJ; We talk about armed guards in schools to protect children but never armed guards at entrances to malls?

I have no problems with added security at all. You want to check my ID, check my bags, check my car? No problem. Worst thing I carry these days is a Redbull.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

next you will be saying where were the police. can't have it both ways public shootings are more and more

No, I won't be asking where the police are.

And no, public shootings are not "more and more".

Look up some actual numbers, not the headlines crap that you are spoonfed my friend.




.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

next you will be saying where were the police. can't have it both ways public shootings are more and more

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

next you will be saying where were the police. can't have it both ways public shootings are more and more

Police don't stop anything. They arrive at crime scenes to investigate what happened and MAYBE make an arrest.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

No, I won't be asking where the police are.

And no, public shootings are not "more and more".

Look up some actual numbers, not the headlines crap that you are spoonfed my friend.




.

^^^^ he's got a point.. violent crime is on the serious decline over the last 10-15 years no matter what the news makes it seem like. The main problem is people have delusions that it's possible to stop ALL violent crime, which is ludicrous.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

^^^^ he's got a point.. violent crime is on the serious decline over the last 10-15 years no matter what the news makes it seem like. The main problem is people have delusions that it's possible to stop ALL violent crime, which is ludicrous.

...and actually, violent crimes started really dropping about 25 years ago.

In the last 30 years, about 630 people have been killed in mass shootings in the US. In that same time, about 3000 have been killed by lightning.


You want to have total security in exchange for living in a state where every move is questioned and scrutinized by the government, every letter, email, phone call, and every conversation you have with any friend is recorded and processed, etc, etc, etc....

[CDSmith]

I don't believe it's just the US that is seeing the worst of this or making the most drastic moves towards being a 'police state'. I'd hazard a pretty good guess that if most people living in just about every country knew the half of what their governments are up to these days by way of "security" they would likely shit themselves.

The good news is there'll never be a shortage of 'based on a true story' scripts for action/terrorist/spy/covert-gov't-ops/unfair-gov't-practices-lead-to-oppression movies.

[Vendzilla]

More security equals less freedoms

[sandman!]

in 10 years there will be armed guards at every corner.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Police don't stop anything. They arrive at crime scenes to investigate what happened and MAYBE make an arrest.

The TSA don't stop anything either. $8.1 billion a year. Not a single plot foiled.

So no wonder they want to just go around groping people in the street as well as the airport. They'll make more money.

Rochard, why do you think your founding fathers created the fourth amendment, and isn't it frightfully unpatriotic of you to say they were wrong?

[pimpmaster9000]

man its sad to see what the USA has become...I remember the US embassy before the wars and shit, it was a nice white building with a flag...now its a fucking bunker with walled up windows and it has anti tank road barriers and is basically a klingon fortress...bin laden won big time

[2012]

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

man its sad to see what the USA has become...I remember the US embassy before the wars and shit, it was a nice white building with a flag...now its a fucking bunker with walled up windows and it has anti tank road barriers and is basically a klingon fortress...bin laden won big time

sad?

You are seeing resistance and action

are you able to show the same of your country?

[Sly]

I'm not sure why so many think a tragic event needs to change the lives of everyone else. Sometimes a tragic event is simply a tragic event that could not and would not have been prevented regardless of what precautions took place.

Makes me sad. What makes me even sadder is watching those that champion these actions.

"The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself." We now piss our pants in fear simply looking in the mirror.

[Tom_PM]

9/11 is a cash cow. Sorry to say it. One rule of government is that once you approve some spending, you never shut it down. That's why we build tanks, planes, ships for military that are immediately mothballed. It employs people in a senators state. Those fucks will never turn the faucet off once it's running.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

man its sad to see what the USA has become...I remember the US embassy before the wars and shit, it was a nice white building with a flag...now its a fucking bunker with walled up windows and it has anti tank road barriers and is basically a klingon fortress...bin laden won big time

fyi, shithead, usa embassies had more attacks pre 9/11 than after.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...matic_missions

[klinton]

Originally Posted by noshit

Emotionally bonding with an abuser is actually a strategy for survival. But there is help:
Stockholm Syndrome

[klinton]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

exactly my thoughts.....

[JockoHomo]

Originally Posted by Tom_PM

9/11 is a cash cow. Sorry to say it. One rule of government is that once you approve some spending, you never shut it down. That's why we build tanks, planes, ships for military that are immediately mothballed. It employs people in a senators state. Those fucks will never turn the faucet off once it's running.

True on so many levels. Just as Eisenhower warned about the military-industrial-complex. It is now the main business of the US government.

Couldn't have worked better if they had planned it that way...oh wait a minute...

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

sounds wise

what is your position on rounding up all the illegals and dumping them into work camps?

that way you know for sure they're working

I think if you are here illegally you should be arrested and put in prison. Period. If you come into the country illegally you are breaking dozens if not hundreds of laws.

This has nothing to do with one race or nationality. My step father came here from Belgium, didn't speak a word of English, but he (and his entire family) came here legally.

If you aren't here legally, you should be arrested, put in prison, and then deported.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But at a certain point in time, we need this. Such attacks can happen anywhere at any time. Subways are a target, always have been, train stations, any kind of social event.

I was thinking about this the other day at a high school football game - A thousand people and no one even thought about checking bags. (We won, 47-2.) Yesterday there was a shooting at a mall in NJ; We talk about armed guards in schools to protect children but never armed guards at entrances to malls?

I have no problems with added security at all. You want to check my ID, check my bags, check my car? No problem. Worst thing I carry these days is a Redbull.

best troll reply ever

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I think if you are here illegally you should be arrested and put in prison. Period. If you come into the country illegally you are breaking dozens if not hundreds of laws.

This has nothing to do with one race or nationality. My step father came here from Belgium, didn't speak a word of English, but he (and his entire family) came here legally.

If you aren't here legally, you should be arrested, put in prison, and then deported.

who would farm your food then?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Armed rent-a-cops will either be on the other side of the building or the first ones shot in any kind of attack or shooting. They won't stop anything.

The idea of ME an American citizen being stopped for a "routine check" is appalling.


.

This was my point when we debated armed guards in schools. A rent a cop will not likely accomplish nothing. Anyone who wanted to do damage just makes the rent-a-cop the first target.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

maybe ask yourself why is this security needed, and what causes that need .....

Because at any given time there can be some kind of an attack. Doesn't happen anywhere else? Bullshit. There was a terrorist attack in Africa not too long ago and there was something in Norway or Sweden about a man attacking people with a knife.

Why is it needed? Because we have a lot of mentally ill people here, and we hand out firearms like candy.

[nico-t]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But at a certain point in time, we need this. Such attacks can happen anywhere at any time. Subways are a target, always have been, train stations, any kind of social event.

I was thinking about this the other day at a high school football game - A thousand people and no one even thought about checking bags. (We won, 47-2.) Yesterday there was a shooting at a mall in NJ; We talk about armed guards in schools to protect children but never armed guards at entrances to malls?

I have no problems with added security at all. You want to check my ID, check my bags, check my car? No problem. Worst thing I carry these days is a Redbull.

you have to be trolling, nobody can be this naive.


edit: aha it's you again, the dream citizen of police states. "Sure government, place those cameras in my house, I have nothing to hide."

[dyna mo]

rochard's fav movie!

[klinton]

Originally Posted by nico-t

you have to be trolling, nobody can be this naive.


edit: aha it's you again, the dream citizen of police states. "Sure government, place those cameras in my house, I have nothing to hide."

hahah ;]

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

This one might be more fitting

[mromro]

[Dead]

Fuckkkkkk

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by nico-t

you have to be trolling, nobody can be this naive.


edit: aha it's you again, the dream citizen of police states. "Sure government, place those cameras in my house, I have nothing to hide."

In 2004 I got pulled over in Phoenix by the highway patrol. I was stuck in traffic and when I broke free I punched it, all the way up to the 130 mph range. I didn't know it, but there was a marked highway patrol car behind me (It was night, it was Phoenix, and my windows were tinted so dark in the back I couldn't see what was behind me). I didn't know they were after me until I saw the cop cars in front me.

They thought I was intentionally running from the police because I had something to hide, most likely drugs or a dead body or something. It was a full felony stop, shut down the freeway, handcuffs, detained me in the back of the squad car. They asked for permission to search my car; No problem, I had an over night back, some CDs, and a carton of smokes. When they couldn't find anything they brought out the dogs and searched again. There was nothing to find, and I was let go with a really nasty ticket.

Maybe I am naive, but I didn't fear getting into trouble. I had nothing to hide. What are they gonna do, stash drugs in the trunk of my car? Be serious.

Maybe my problem is it seems more and more of my friends these days are police officers.

[wehateporn]

[garce]

There's a Red under my bed, and a little yellow man in my head! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is amazing how the most powerful country in the world is such a paranoid little coward.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by Rochard

In 2004 I got pulled over in Phoenix by the highway patrol. I was stuck in traffic and when I broke free I punched it, all the way up to the 130 mph range. I didn't know it, but there was a marked highway patrol car behind me (It was night, it was Phoenix, and my windows were tinted so dark in the back I couldn't see what was behind me). I didn't know they were after me until I saw the cop cars in front me.

They thought I was intentionally running from the police because I had something to hide, most likely drugs or a dead body or something. It was a full felony stop, shut down the freeway, handcuffs, detained me in the back of the squad car. They asked for permission to search my car; No problem, I had an over night back, some CDs, and a carton of smokes. When they couldn't find anything they brought out the dogs and searched again. There was nothing to find, and I was let go with a really nasty ticket.

Maybe I am naive, but I didn't fear getting into trouble. I had nothing to hide. What are they gonna do, stash drugs in the trunk of my car? Be serious.

Maybe my problem is it seems more and more of my friends these days are police officers.

You are quite naive in some ways. I guess it was lucky that you weren't, say, on your way to buy a used motorcycle or something, and had more than $5k in cash in the car. They would have claimed that it was drug money (with no evidence), then seized it, possibly your car as well, and then you would have had to spend at least a year, and a bunch of lawyer fees trying to get it back. (and btw, they might not have even charged you with any crime, that is the way civil forfiture laws work these days)

I guess it will all be fine with you, until it's too late.

"....Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me."







.

[geedub]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Maybe I am naive, but I didn't fear getting into trouble. I had nothing to hide. What are they gonna do, stash drugs in the trunk of my car? Be serious.

A nerdy kid from my high school thought the same thing, Police ripped the stereo system out of his car and caused an electrical fire, he ended up with a check for around 10k from the city. Nothing to hide

[Sly]

Originally Posted by geedub

A nerdy kid from my high school thought the same thing, Police ripped the stereo system out of his car and caused an electrical fire, he ended up with a check for around 10k from the city. Nothing to hide

He should have searched the car for the cops to make it easier, that way he wouldn't have gotten a bill. Totally his fault!

[Best-In-BC]

The enviable exception of authority over you is a cause of the cowardice of the common person .

People need to stand there grown with cops, but there pussies and scared to get hit

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

You are quite naive in some ways. I guess it was lucky that you weren't, say, on your way to buy a used motorcycle or something, and had more than $5k in cash in the car. They would have claimed that it was drug money (with no evidence), then seized it, possibly your car as well, and then you would have had to spend at least a year, and a bunch of lawyer fees trying to get it back. (and btw, they might not have even charged you with any crime, that is the way civil forfiture laws work these days)

I guess it will all be fine with you, until it's too late.

"....Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me."






.

Who in the world carries $5k cash with them?

I had a friend of mine who did just that, and was carrying $5k in cash to buy a motorcycle. He lost it all. Dumb ass. And in the event you are carrying that kind of cash, your story can most likely be confirmed.

I've been pulled over dozens of times and never had an issue. I've never had a negative experience with law enforcement.

[Rochard]

Now that I think about it... I did pay cash for my truck a few years ago, $2500 or so.

[slapass]

The murder rate in the US is way down. Why do we need more security?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Who in the world carries $5k cash with them?

I had a friend of mine who did just that, and was carrying $5k in cash to buy a motorcycle.

Anybody that deals in cash business carries that kind of cash. I know a lot of people that do and none of them are drug dealers.

Let me guess, it's their fault that they are in a cash business and they should get into a less risky business?

It just dawned on me that any business that takes in cash also carries that sort of cash when they are doing cash drops.

[uniquemkt]

"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private."