But that's not even true. The union thing has already been debunked, a James Hoffa has already said Ted Cruz is full of shit after his 20 hour rant. Keep in mind Hoffa is the president of the teamsters.

Obama said he wouldn't deal with the republicans over the budget? When's the last time Obama had a budget issued on time? Answer, 4 years ago!

The thing I don't get is recently it was let out that the government are getting more in tax revenue than any other time in history, yet we still spend more than we bring in, and we have no budget to speak of, and Obama wants to raise taxes?

I love this
If the sewer pipe in your house blew and filled your house with shit, all the way to the ceiling, would you raise the ceiling?

WRONG! I call bullshit. He never said Ted Cruz was full of shit, he demanded that he stop using his criticism of the ACA in his speeches

Last Thursday, representatives of three of the nation?s largest unions fired off a letter to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, warning that Obamacare would ?shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.?

I have a couple cards, one is a teamster card, the other is afl-cio affiliated
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...are-scenarios/

Did you hear about the AFL-CIO?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...ly-disruptive/

Damn you Obama!

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/e6b/359...ama-e91738.jpg

http://vootwerk.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/budget.jpg

yeah it looks like congress is ONLY giving themselves a waiver

http://www.drudge.com/news/172112/no...-waiver-unions

The "union thing" has not been "debunked". And just because Hoffa doesn't like Cruz, doesn't make what Hoffa SAID about ObamaCare just disappear.

You know it was reported all over the world. But if you think that because Cruz exaggerates it in his 20 hour marathon and pisses Hoffa off, that it somehow is no longer true and "debunked" then you are dead wrong.

The Unions are raising hell over it and trying to get the same delay that Obama gave big business.

Jesus...how many excuses are you going to come up with? Congress gave themselves and their staffs and all their families a big subsidy to help pay for their health care along with Obama Care.
Big Business had it delayed for a year.
The Unions are wanting the same thing.

"Debunked". I don't think so.
The only people not getting a year delay so that it can be "fixed" are...us. The citizens who have to pay for this shit.

An oldie but a goodie...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc

You are wrong. Everything goes up every year. Period. Staff gets raises every year, buildings cost more to build / buy / rent / lease, and all of their gear costs more. Every year. Like clock work.

You cherry pick everything. You always have, you always will. And when you get called out using your own facts, you just cry like a three year old, claim someone isn't playing nicely, and then block them from your view.

You cannot argue or debate anything. You just cut and paste facts from sites you believe in like a religion.

Vendzilla is the product of a very well funded misinformation strategy. Hannity and Rush get his blood boiling and he will never listen to reason - he drank the coolaid...it's too late for him.

You just said that for tens of millions who barely by this will be disastrous. You are wrong.

Case in point is my buddy Rick. One third of his paycheck goes directly to healthcare which he can never ever ever ever change because of pre-existing conditions. Obamacare, at the very least, will change that for him. He'll go from "barely able to to get by" to being able to afford a day off for first time since his wife got sick.

You can't compare a medical bill to a crime against humanity or how silly Prohibition. This passed the Supreme Court, it's passed multiple challenges, it is in fact the law, and it will go into effect. Best case for the Republicans is they keep harping on this like children, four years, eight years, or more, more lost elections, and maybe SOME of it will be struck down, and the American people will continue to get fucked because their healthcare will be in limbo for a decade with no improvement. The Republicans have lost this fight, will continue to beat this horse, and even if they win in the long they will only have mud on their face.

The only proper way to proceed is to allow everything to go in place, figure out what doesn't work, and then work together on fixing it. But the Republicans can't do this, can they? Of course not - If they allow it go up it will be a lose for them, and they will be handing a victory to Obama and his fucking Obamacare.

The Republicans cannot think two months in advance, which has been their problem since Obama ran for office. Hillary Clinton is going to run, the Democrats will have their panties in a bunch at the possiblity of having some kind of Democrat first family (similar to the Bushes), and Hillary will roll out their trump cards saying "We got fucked hard under the last Republican white house, things have gotten better under a democraotic president, the Republicans keep fighting a loosing battle, AND the Clinton family already has a history of great economics. The Republicans will loose, again.

I'm not saying this because I am a Democrat; I hate Hillary too. I'm calling it as I see it.

The Republican party needs to be looking towards the next election, not fighting a battle they've already lost multiple times.

He also sees nothing wrong with jerking off in public

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1119296

But your buddy Rick is one guy. And he probably represents 1/10000 of 1% of people out there.

For most young people out there who are trying to earn a living and just barely getting by in this shitty economy...being forced to have yet another bill that they can't pay is not gonna be a good thing.

What was needed was actual cost of healthcare reform. Not forcing people to buy insurance.

That's why I say this is a huge boon for insurance companies. 99% of people do NOT have catastrophic accidents or illnesses when they are young adults. And those are the people who the insurance industries are now gonna finally get a piece of.
We no longer have any choice in the matter.

When I was 18 up until I was in my mid 30's I played in professional bands. We traveled constantly. The band averaged about 3 grand a week. We paid our production crew $1500 a week no matter what (P.A., light show, sound man, light guy, stage tech + equipment truck). Then we had to pay for the gas for the truck and band van. Then we had to get the hotel room in each town we played in (2 rooms sleeping 4 to a room). The booking agent made 15% off of the top.
If it weren't for picking up girls at the club to feed us the next day we would have starved.

No fucking way that I, or any of the thousands of other musicians playing the club circuit could have bought (or needed) health insurance.

Fortunately for all of us...the govt. hadn't gotten too involved in health care yet (HMO's had just started so the prices rising were just beginning). So when we got sick, we went to the doctor. It was around $30 to $50 to see a doctor (nothing serious, just flu and so forth). And THAT hurt when you were basically making nothing.

Can't imagine what a young couple will do now. Say you and your girlfriend are 27 years old. You both make just enough that when you put it all together all the bills get paid. But NOW you have to buy insurance on top of that.

Yeah, a tiny percentage of people that age group need medical attention. But 99.99% of them never do at that age. And they never had to buy insurance before.

Who knows? Maybe this will all work out great somehow. I hope it does. It just doesn't seem to me that the real problem (medical price gouging) is being addressed...and in fact was made SURE that it continues. :(

Robbie you just hit on a very important point.
My wife and I are 37 and 38 with two kids under 18.
We make really close to 50k a year right now because I just lost my good paying job a couple months ago.
So where we stand now we barely squeeze by with paying all of our bills.
And still have the ability to go out for a causual dinner here and there.
Now we have a $355 bill coming our way that we have to figure out how to pay.
We don't actually waste that much money a month so it's not really a matter of cutting back.
It's a matter of figuring out whether or not to sell our house or what.... We don't really know what we're going to do yet.
The way I see it is you either pay the money monthly and get insurance or pay it when you do your taxes and you don't get insurance.
Either way you're going to pay.

I don't know what the answer is. But My situation is the same as most of the people I know that don't have insurance currently.
They have no idea how they're going to suddenly add that kind of bill into their budget.

I have Rochard on ignore because the IRS, the NSA admitted to doing things illegally and Rochard doesn't believe they did anything wrong.

I find proof from senate hearings that they came to the conclusion that tear gas was responsible for many of the deaths of the children of waco, But Rochard says other wise.

I just don't have time for idiots

Why are you fixated in my sex life? Gay Drive by? I have a hairy back, does that do something for you?

He is one of millions who cannot afford to live because he MUST have healthcare, he MUST have it through this one company, and this one company fucks him up the ass. Healthcare is a requirement because they need monthly care for his wife (hot thirty year old MILF really), and it sucks down one third of his salary.

One third. That's staggering. It's looking like he'll be able to reduce his healthcare by two thirds now.

Me too. That obmacare caculator tells me that my monthly healthcare bill will go from $1200 to $400 a month. Sweet.

I am not seeing a downside yet.

The IRS didn't break any laws. The IRS, as a matter of daily business, has a number of different kinds of organizations that it believes violate tax laws, and gives them extra scrutiny. Nothing wrong or illegal about it at all.

The NSA hasn't broken any laws either. After all of the excitement generated by Snowden. it turns out nothing was done illegally. The NSA has made a few mistakes, but went so far as to report itself to the courts that supervise them to ensure everything was properly recorded and to ensure they operate above the board.

And then we have my new favorite, the Waco crapo. The summary you pointed out seems to have been written by one Congreessman, but the report itself states in plain English that the people who died were stabbed, shot, or died from the multiple fires intentionally set and had nothing to do with the tear gas. It was a thirty page Congressional report you pointed out which disproved everything you claimed.

You cannot debate, plain and simple. You cherry pick everything to back up your point of view. You like what the summary said, but you didn't read any of the thirty page report.

He is one of the few people who will actually debate you in all of these threads. He is probably the last person you want on ignore for that reason. He will go a few rounds with you on your various talking points.

I love to debate stuff like this. I had never given much thought to what happened in Waco; I only knew what I saw on TV at the time and I was a bit too busy getting laid and wasn't really paying attention.

Thanks to vendzilla and his thirty page report - which was a great read really - It pretty much confirms exactly what I thought all along. ATF did a year long investigation, went in heavy with legal warrants, cops were shot dead, the stand off, millions of dollars and three months wasted, and the nut jobs killed each other and set fire to their building.

Vendzilla looks at these people as "Americans with rights" and I see them as nut jobs who shot and killed police while they were serving a warrant. I am not sure where you are from, but when police have a valid warrant you can't shoot and kill them. Come to think about it, even if they don't have a valid warrant you still can't shoot anyone.

So you have no medical insurance for your kids? You can choose to pay the fine its less then $300 for the whole year which is $25 a month.

But did you ever stop to wonder why the unions are against this?

It's pretty simple. If the government lowers healthcare below the "special deals" unions have put in place to "protect their workers", why would anyone need the collective bargining powers of the unions? Unions get people good benefits, better wages, and better working conditions. Take away one of the three things the unions do for their members, and well, suddenly the unions aren't nearly as important.

And how is that helping the people? Fine/tax them for not buying something they can't afford?

Because when they have to go to the ER because they have no insurance we all pay for that. I bet dollars to donuts back when this was the Doles plan to fight Clinton care created by the heritage foundation and old NEWT said its about time we have some personal responsibility talking about everyone having to have health insurance. You stood up and cheered.

I have stood behind the concept of personal responsibility my entire life. I would expect anyone that has stayed at the helm of their own business can say that.

Back during the Clinton years the average income across the board rose every year. For the last 5 years it hasn't.

Regardless, I thought you were the champion of the poor and huddled masses.
It seems very odd that on one hand you want them to line up for free money from uncle sugar, and then you are okay with fining them when it's still not enough to purchase a product now being mandated.

Would you buy a bigger pipe? Do a little research. US budget roughly is -

1 - 25% debt interest
2 - 25% military
3 - 25% Social Security and Medicare
4 - 25% The rest

So figure out how to cut 10% if you can't cut the first three like the Republicans want? The Democrats won't cut 1 and 3 and are big fans of 4. Bernake already cut number 1. It is lower then it was in 2000 as a % of GDP. So number 2 needs to be on the table and deadly third rail needs to be finally dealt with.

OR the USA can go broke. The whole budget thing is a fight over the fact no one wants to touch number 3 one which is growing the fastest. Everyone knows it, and no one would reelect them if they cut it so we pretend to fight over number 4.

So yes, you raise the roof and hope you are out of office before the place fills up totally.

Please show me where I said people should get free money from Uncle Sugar? It seems when your side has nothing intelligent to say it comes down to me getting welfare checks in the mail or wanting everyone to suck on the gov tit. One thing I like about VEND love him or hate him he doesnt get personal.
If they make no money they arent fined, they get medicare now. Otherwise they choose not to have healthcare then they pay a fine. One person its $95 a yr and its written into the law the irs will take no action on the people that dont pay it so its nothing.

Another thing to stick in your pipe and smoke. I didnt vote for Obama last election voted in all the other things that were up for votes ,sat out the president. Sorry its all we have is not good reason for me to give someone my vote.

Japan's debt over 200% of gdp and they survived. First world countries dont fail,people forget that.

The problem is that not a single human being has used the plan yet but they are sure it is doomed.

How do I even take anyone seriously when the same shit happened with the birth certificate?

Repubs have come up with a "flaw/error/tragedy" for everything Obama does and it all seems like bitter losers whining to me.

:2 cents:

Go back and review that $95.00 number. It's that or 1% of your income, whichever is the highest. And in 2015 that number goes to 2.5%...

You don't need to take potshots at me about *my side* I don't agree with the far right.
If you want to take potshots take them on the number and costs. And make sure your gun is loaded. Mine is. As obamacare is now implemented it's not a sustainable program and in fact it only becomes another tax.

There is one thing you keep blowing over. Unions and big business workers are already covered by health insurance. The goal of Obamacare is to get as many Americans covered as possible, so converting large numbers of employees that already have health insurance on to Obamacare at the start is not needed. In fact it's better to let them come into the plan at a latter date.

Oh and on that note. The girl I'm dating works at Staples in one of their shipping centers. She just got the letter from them about her Heath insurance and Obamacare. The letter states very clearly that nothing will change and her cost will not increase but all workers whom are part time or that don't qualify for their insurance will now be able to get insurance via Obamacare..

So really what's the big deal? You guys keep using the fact that big business taking longer to transfer over is proof Obamacare is shit, but your telling half truth and spreading BS. Big business employees that can't get insurance now, ARE getting it via Obamacare..

So really stop with the miss information that is spread by republicans and lobbyist whom are paid to lie and misrepresent the truth.

Im taking pot shots? lets see you said you go to your mail box for your obama checks. People getting free things from Uncle Sugar. But you are just a guy just telling the facts getting attacked by me. lol
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...alth-care-law/
Some facts for people that want them.

Basically, all you have to do is assume Republicans are wrong, as they almost always are. They're on the wrong side of every issue, almost all of the time.

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...86777986_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...91354171_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...77671174_n.jpg

On which points do you not agree with the far right...I'm curious...seems you said you're for single payer which would be directly against the ideology you have been shouting about.

Not to be rude but you come off a little like most Republicans who contradict their philosophies on a daily basis.

My father in law just recently labeled himself "independent" because the news finally filtered down to him that Republicans have some crazy views lately. This is a guy who has been a dyed in wool in conservative for as long as I've known him. He voted for Mitt Romney because that's what his precious GOP put in front of him. That's Republican.

If the GOP would put up a candidate I liked, I'd vote for him. But they all seem like a bunch of arrogant, selfish fucksticks...John Huntsman notwithstanding.

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...06703043_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...59685367_n.jpg

You know that food stamps has gone up 400% under Obama and that the FDA is teaching the Mexican Nationals in Mexico how to better use them?

Or did you know that Los Angeles county spends 850 million dollars a year on welfare to illegal aliens?

And did you know that California legislators are voting to keep the federal government from shipping illegal aliens back to Mexico?

Obamacare is just going to cost more and Ben Bernake is already printing up 85 billion dollars a month to help the economy, I don't see it helping much!
Well, it's helping the banks a lot

GREAT STUFF BFT3K


keep em comin

I post facts, I'm sorry if people can't debate that

You want to debate Obamacare, my take on it is it has a lot of holes in it, 20,000 pages of holes and needs to be fixed. I have seen several people on this forum say that it's a good start and we needed to get it in there, it will grow into something good after that. I hope so.
I wish it was done right the first time .Debate that!

They have interest rates at zero and expanding their debt at a huge rate. Their debt is also owned by the Japanese people so that seems to stabiles it but I would not be vying any in japan at this moment.

What does this have to do with the costs and the penalty?
That's my only beef with obamacare.

To be clear.. the idea of healthcare for people. I agree.
Most of the benefits of obamacare in holding insurance companys to task. I agree.

I wish there was some way to let the people decide on Obamacare......

I have an idea, just stay with me for a second

What if say back in 2012 their could of been some kind of test of support from the people. They could choose to select Obama and his plan or the GOPs leader and his plan (obviously the GOP would pick someone who is totally against the basic idea of Obamacare)

Not really sure on the logistics of all of this, but lets say both sides would be allowed to spend billions of dollars marketing their plans to the citizens. Then on a specified date citizens would be allowed to pick a side in some kind of popularity contest.

The winner of said contest would be the party that receives the majority of the votes.

I know your saying but what if the two parties lie just to win this popularity contest..... That is a great question and the only real answer I can come up with is to re do the whole contest again in increment amounts of time.... not perfect but it might work?

What the Republitards are demanding in their ransom note...

We’ll refrain from deliberately sabotaging the global economy, Speaker John Boehner and the other leaders said, if President Obama allows more oil drilling on federal lands. And drops regulations on greenhouse gases. And builds the Keystone XL oil pipeline. And stops paying for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. And makes it harder to sue for medical malpractice. And, of course, halts health care reform for a year.

Yeah, good luck with that, teatards!

The polls on Obamacare have show something weird lately. In any instance when its called the Affordable Care Act, it rates 10 percentage points higher than when its referred to as "Obamacare". What does that tell you?

Whan you list those things, they sound like a bunch of villains.