For fucks sake! We're talking about teenagers who are UNSKILLED labor taking your fucking order at McDonalds.

They do NOT love their job and never will. If they did love their job, they would do it better than anybody else and rise up the chain of promotions and EARN more money.

THAT is the incentive to succeed. You don't just hand people money for nothing.

They don't deserve even minimum wage...which is why there is a separate lower minimum wage for service industry.

Yes, ENTRY level pay is low. You do NOT pay entry level any more than what they are worth.
And the cream will rise to the top and get promoted and make more money. The rest...are worth whatever low level they end up at.

when did I say you said paying people less makes sense? now your just making shit up to try and insult. i mean really.

The overall theory is that if McDonald's paid $20/hr other fast food places and low wage places like Walmart would be forced to do the same. Then since those people would be making more money they would have a higher standard of living and those of them that are currently also collecting some kind of government aid like food stamps, housing assistance, health insurance, daycare help etc would no longer need it or need as much of it. This would lower the government's costs and thus lower taxes. In the end you might have to pay a small amount more for the things you buy, but the tax savings would more than offset it.

The problem with the theory is that the government never really lowers taxes. They would just find other ways to spend that money so we would end up at the same tax rate while also paying more for many goods and services. This would then leave us with only the hope that these overall higher wages made for a better economy where everyone made more money and were better off, but I have yet to see any real evidence that this would actually happen.

In the end, sure, these places could pay a lot more (I read a few years ago that Walmart could double most of their employees pay and only have to raise their prices by about 1.5%-2% to cover the cost), but it doesn't appear that these thing really have a large, overall benefit to the economy as a whole.

wait, i'm still chuckling at your trying to claim that paying someone who has already shown a complete lack of motivation to learn an employable skillset, more money to motivate them to perform better.

:1orglaugh

gimme a few tics before you crack me up again man.

You are fucking insane

That would be total bullshit too . . . I am bailing from this thread . . . too many silly comments.

This Is What Would Happen If Fast-Food Workers Got Raises

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...rs-got-raises?

you are old as shit

Yes that is quite humorous. Even more so since I said nothing to the sort. Why the need to fabricate shit to prove a point? Is it that weak of an argument that you have to lie?

I can see a fair living wage at $12.50 or so. 15 or 20? No way. These are monkey jobs for old people, high school kids and losers who did not graduate or are barely literate.

Want a better job, get better pay? Go to school and get a degree in a field that pays.
We live in a capitalist world. McDonalds inc is not going to become a social welfare net.

McDonalds should pay a fair wage but not an absurd amount like 15-20. I think the 15$ an hour ploy by the guy in Kansas City is a bargaining chip. He is smarter than that to think he can get it at full 15 plus.

What a lame insult, you sure seem jealous he's going to live a full life. But understandable with you standing a 1 in 3 chance of going to prison then getting shived or HIV.

.

Yeah, but if he keeps trolling you and baddog, that'll keep him out of trouble. :thumbsup

you're way over your head here. not only is your troll hand weak, you actually expect real business owners here to think you pay your crew extra. small biz owners i've ever known loses sleep every month worrying about making payroll.

you're getting more sleep from paying more! :1orglaugh

running a small biz like a charity, yeah, they'll study that business model at wharton.

#12 sounds good to me but the problem is this really does nothing. After a year or so prices increase and that money is no longer giving them a better life. You could argue that it takes 2-3 years for food and goods prices to stabilize with the new income but really we should be doing other things to make poor peoples lives better.

I still say healthcare is the way to go. Free education or job training for the working poor would be great.

The other issue with the theory is the fact that all skilled labor will also demand more money to be in line with the increased in pay, their skills warrant. In McDonald's alone, that would mean the assistant manager, manager and GM etc.

Then you take college graduates. Teachers, Police Officers, Welders, Electricians, Doctors etc. They will demand more money, and be entitled it, based on their skill set. And if given, inflation rises rapidly, and these low entry level unskilled workers are back to the same spending power they had before. Things just cost more.

And if you don't pay the skilled workers what they are worth, then you are going to see a brain drain, as there is no incentive for these people to get educated and spend all that money on tuition if the net pay is just over what it would be to work fast food. Why put yourself if in debt, and have a job with stress, if you can get paid good money, for a carefree job like flipping burgers at McDonalds.

Utopia is just that. An idealistic dream, but never achievable.

Exactly. If a guy is working at a job right now making $20/hr then suddenly McDonalds is paying $20, the other guy is going to want $30+/hr. This will cause a rise in wages across the board.

This is still sustainable if taxes go down as much or more than the rise in consumer costs, but that will never happen.

You think its bad business to pay above minimum wage? You're starting to rank up there with Rich and Stickyfingers as the biggest retard in GFY history. :2 cents:

So your whole economic experience comes from eating chicken at KFC today...what a special gift you have. Are you also able to solve your towns infrastructure issues by peering your head out of your moms trailer?

Exactly.

However, that does not even get into the REAL COST to the business. Just because some Mcwebmaster makes minimum wage, that does not represent the ACTUAL COST to that business. There is a lot of additional expense for any one worker that most never factor in. If you provide a worker with vacation time, health or other benefits, insurance, workman's comp, taxes, uniforms, whatever.

The point being, all of that is an additional cost to the business over and above the hourly wage expense to one working employee. It seems that when people are throwing around these numbers, they somehow always forget all of these other expenses and cost to the business for this worker. I can assure you it's much higher than their hourly wage.

If a $10.00/hour (over minimum wage) is getting health benefits of any kind from their employer, especially if they have a family, they are truly making more like $15.00+ an hour as a TRUE COST to that business once you break down the cost of health policy over their hours worked. Add in vacation and personal days off, and the rest that each worker represents in TRUE COST and it blows a lot of these numbers out of the water.

When does it end? We need to provide these people $20.00/hour jobs for flipping McBurgers, provide them outfits, health insurance, paid leave, workman's comp, 401k unti the cost to the business is $40-50/hour per worker?!?!?! How much more per big mac will the consumer be willing to pay to achieve this?

:disgust

But we also have a society that values work in sometimes illogical ways. Athletes getting paid millions while the guy who cures cancer will probably make a few hundred grand a year. Teachers vs Lawyers. People who can see differences in the values of markets make billions.

I have a job where I go to meetings, answer e-mails, and write proposals, manage people.. at $40/hr. I think I have to be skilled in some ways, but there was certainly 0 "job training" or instruction even. Not to mention I work at home, go in only when I have to, and record my own hours with no supervision.

My wife on the other hand works at the airport for ~$15/hr, and her job is much harder and requires a lot more training. She has entire books with notes in them that she refers to in order to use their system. If they send someone whose passport expires within say 6 months to certain places in the world, the country won't accept them and sends them back.. For 2 people that could be a $15,000 fine to her company.

Not to mention the people yelling at you every day because you work at the airport and people are frustrated with delays, fees and cancellations. The worst is when someone misses their wedding because they didn't check their passport and the rules...

Oh, and it's part time, 4 hour shifts... We all know why.

Am I more skilled than her? I doubt it.

I have a grade 11 education. My skill is instilling confidence.

Minimum wage in Australia is $16.37 plus loading plus superannuation.

Most McDonalds workers get above this. :2 cents:

Robbie most of these guys don't realize the amount of work it takes to move ahead, the guys pulling down big bucks that I know are working 80+ hours a week.. a big time CEO has his day slotted out in 15 min increments with meetings all day long, usually 12+ hour days...

my business took me years to set up at 80 hours a week plus... even now I don't really make that much. six figures is all ... day before yesterday I worked 4am until 10pm and only netted $1900... and almost 47.3% of that goes out to taxes.

so a guy working 40 hours a week serving up tacos, and not even very well, should have everything I've worked my ass of for... amazing

this theory that money somehow created itself and then was stolen by the rich and needs to be returned damn quick is what your seeing and the thought that a big screen TV is guaranteed on the constitution... :2 cents:

the biggest hurdle to owning and operating a small business is surviving the taxes the first few years.. . I know the first 2 years I was in business taxes lifted almost every penny of my cash surplus :2 cents:

until recently porn has been based on the drug dealer model.... 'you need what I have and fuck you if you don't like it' this isn't the case anymore... let these guys figure out how it really works now :2 cents:

Kane there will be NO tax savings... ever.. the gov will blow the money, then blow smoke up your ass., just like they do every fucking day... anyone that thinks paying higher min wages will drop expenditures is living in a dream.

another issue is most businesses only make a +/-3% net... Wal-Mart does 3.6% so rising the prices by 1.5%-2% is kinda crazy don't you think?

the issue is that the reports and politicians have NEVER run a business and talk weird shit to grind personal agendas...

making $100 per hour to bolt on car fenders worked pretty good for the car manufactures didn't it?

Well you can certainly tell in this thread who has, or had owned a small business, and who hasn't. :2 cents:

no one made $100 an hour bolting on car fenders. I worked on the line for gm in 84. The car businesses had problems not because of unions like your favorite pundits say. It was poor management at the top. They made cars the consumer didnt want. Ford is union and is doing fine, they were never in trouble.Without a middle class there is no porn business. its that simple. And with people cheering pay them as little as possible when each walmart store costs the tax payer 900k gov programs because they pay them shit. They use you to profit. That's corporate welfare. Now you got a problem with the person on welfare buying cigarettes and beer and having an iphone. But the company costs you billions that's fine. lol

read this and understand: the government is NEVER going to lower taxes. the thought that over paying unskilled workers will drop government expenditures is ludicrous.

I have no issue, I live in REALITY. you seem to be the one with the unrealistic expectations and a total lack of basic business understanding, and this is causing your issues.

let me guess, if we would apologize to the Muslim world, they would leave us alone and be our BFF's right? if we would just spend another 12 billion dollars a year on programs for minorities, the minorities would stop using drugs, being in gangs, unwed teen mothers would evaporate? if we would totally outlaw guns, murders would stop completely, if we would stop military spending the entire world would be our BBF forever and look up to us, if we mandate minimum wage to $25-$30 an hour there will be no more welfare... I get all that right Tony?

AND who is getting government assistance in one form or another. I once heard that if you are not getting welfare any other government assistance or money from the government in anyway you are the enemy...

True dat.

:2 cents:

I worked at McDonalds as a kid, the majority of the people I worked with fit into two categories:

A) Kid in high school that needed a job with flexible hours
B) Adult that didn't or barely finished High School and didn't do shit with their lives

In most cases the workers from A were the ones that actually worked the hardest. Now, of course, this was 20+ years ago, and many kids I see these days are lazy fucks too because of Mommy and Daddy putting them on a pedestal and telling them constantly that their shit doesn't stink. So hard work never enters their blood stream.

With all of this said there was an article posted back in march that has resonated with me since I first read it back then.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...t-you-pay-for/

Harold Myerson writes in a terrific piece published in today’s WashPo—

“One lesson that emerges from the experience of low-end retailers is that putting workers in crummy, low-wage jobs tends to yield crummy service as well. McDonald’s earnings have fallen, the Wall Street Journal reports, and a management webcast to franchise owners acknowledged that customer dissatisfaction is rising in part because “service is broken.” Myerson adds, “Some of the most successful retailers follow a different path. As MIT management professor Zeynep Ton argued in Harvard Business Review last year, Costco and Trader Joe’s pay their workers far more than many of their competitors, offer their employees opportunities for promotion and enjoy markedly lower worker turnover and far higher sales per employee than their low-road counterparts. Sales per employee at Costco are nearly double that at Sam’s Club.(emphasis added)”

One of those things that makes you go hmmmm...

Flipping burgers used to be a part time job for teens that gave them extra money and served as an example of why they needed to have a good education or trade. Not a way to support a family.

Again, society is lowering the bar for those that don't take personal responsibility to make themselves valuable in the marketplace.

Don't bring racial element - minimum wages are in also in countries with no ethnic minorities.

That may have been true 20 years ago but today almost half of college graduates are forced to take jobs that require no degree and 38% of them are forced to take minimum wage jobs.
http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?p...6-4fb05e443d93

Not to mention the average yearly cost for college is now close to $30,000 a year.

I read an article the other day that half the people with law degrees arent practicing law simply because they cannot find work.

Saw a guy on the news late last night saying that there are 3 million TRADE jobs available in the U.S. right now. But people aren't qualified to take them.

He said that Caterpillar is practically begging for qualified heavy engine mechanics right now. Pay STARTS in the $40,000 + range. After 2 years you can be making $120,000 a year.

But there aren't enough trained people who went to a vocational "tech" school as opposed to a university to fill those positions.

And the irony is that vo-tech schools are really cheap and easy to get in.

He also pointed out that people who learn "trades" can't be "outsourced". You can't outsource that mechanic to China. You can't outsource a plumber that comes to your home to fix a leak (and if you've hired one lately then you KNOW they make great money).

If people don't want to work an entry level fast food job that is designed for high school kids...there are options to become a SKILLED laborer and learn a trade and make a great living.

Also...everyone over 18 should start voting and get rid of all these lifetime politicians who are magically rich while the country goes to hell and nobody can find a good job...and even if they do they get taxed almost half of everything they make (sales, local, state, fed)

I worked fast food for seven years. At first it was because I needed it. Later on I got a much better job, but still worked part time because fast food was fun. It was a great place to meet chicks - in fact, that's how I met my wife.

I did some volunteer work a while back, running a food booth for our local charity for eight hours at a concert (Journey in fact). It kicked my ass.

Sounds good, but everything else will slide to the correct price, thus making it .... You make the same %...

If you set Min wage at X amount, guess what you are still the Bottom, and once EVERYTHING YOU buy increases the small X amount suggested, guess what, the money is back to the TOP of the Stock Holders and Businesses....

I guess you can keep it local, ma and pop stores, and also the local Drug Dealers, which now will charge more..

Rochard...I'd like a quarter pounder with cheese combo please. Make it large with coke to drink, and an apple pie as well. See ya at the drive up window. lol :)

Yep...except ONE thing: Porn. We can barely sell paysite memberships at the same price we were selling them for 15 years ago. Can't raise the price because of piracy. :(

So yeah...great idea! Let's accelerate the cost of living even more!