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I am posting this thanks to an interesting video posted by GFY member Sara Jayne of Russell Brand and his discussion with a British legislative body about addiction.

If drug addiction is a disease, how should society deal with the people harmed by those suffering from addiction? Are they collateral damage? Is addiction self-induced or are people born with a genetic predisposition and are mere 'ticking time bombs'?

If drug addiction was a choice, wouldn't this validate the current criminal approach to drugs?

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TheSquealer

why can't it be any of them or any combination of them?

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_Richard_

it's a matter of definition:

Noun
The fact or condition of being addicted to a particular substance, thing, or activity.

so once you get into one form of addiction, it gets into other legal addictions

so, drugs are bad, but gambling is AOK etc

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Categorization impacts public policy.

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OneHungLo

Disease? fuck no. It's selfishness.

Google Expert

The vast majority of people do drugs because they don't have anything better to do.

Grapesoda

I'm thinking it's a bit of genetic disposition and a bit medical situation and most def a spiritual illness... as a recovered addict this is my insight into the 'diss ease'

MrBottomTooth

I consider it a mental condition. Certainly not a disease. When it's something you can stop by simply taking something away from you ( booze or drugs ) then it can't be a disease.

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Helix

Has it been scientifically proven that there actually is a genetic predisposition for addiction?

Nevermind, I looked it up -
Addiction is due 50 percent to genetic predisposition and 50 percent to poor coping skills. This has been confirmed by numerous studies.

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Rochard

Addiction is a choice. I've been addicted to drugs, smoking, and drinking. Oddly enough, quitting the drugs was easy - but that's because I went to boot camp and never picked it back up. More recently I've quick drinking and quick smoking. I wasn't cured of anything, it was a choice I made.

It's really that simple.

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Sarah_Jayne

In the people that I have known, it is usually a symptom of something else that is going on with that person either physically, mentally or situational.

Also, just because it may be one of the things you mentioned for one person doesn't mean it is for everybody.

Whichever, I believe Brand had a point where if you just keep treating addiction as a crime and not treating it there is rarely an end to the cycle.

Some Guy

Addiction is not a disease. It's a disorder. I wish people would understand the difference and stop referring to it as a damn disease. It's not, plain and simple.

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TheSquealer

You're asking for opinion, not public policy. Obviously the underlying cause of ones addiction can be one or a combination one or more in addition to other factors. I do not believe that the diagnostic criteria takes causal factors into consideration.

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pornmasta

genetically predisposed: yes, absolutely
illness: it can be a social illness.
a choice: it can be a choice if you can go back, so it's not always the case.

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Looked at from a different angle, aren't we ALL addicts at some level? I mean most people don't do crystal, smack, or blow but what about constantly worrying, constant negativity, etc? Like they hit a certain pattern and it goes on autopilot. Sure, the 'damage' isn't the same as drugs but really, isn't this all about a difference in DEGREE not in KIND?

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Grapesoda

there is this thing in jewish writing, forgot what's it's called, but it's the force that causes 'man' to build and create... that force can be negative as well then you are into, well evil for lack or a better word and addiction.

in my case I had no choice about using. in NA one of the descriptions of addiction is 'using against your will'. I have a genetic disposition that triggers when I have one of anything... even chocolate cake. if I see a cake I want at the store I have to ask myself, do I want to eat an entire cake right now?

to me this is where the spiritual illness comes in... the negativity you mentioned. negativity to me is a form of selfishness... and addiction is totally about selfishness on most levels...

some people aren't addicts but get trapped into an addictive lifestyle and are able to return to a more productive lifestyle with a positive change in physical environment or social environment, usually a combination of both.

and in some ways addiction is like OCD, but instead of polishing doorknobs and counting your steps etc... it's about the rush or fix... so in that way I would think you could say it's a matter of degree..

I've always said if I could just smoke crack and shoot heroin in a cheap motel with a bunch of strawberry's on Friday, and ONLY Friday nights, I would never had gotten clean, or if I could smoke one cigar with a beer watching the sunset after a bitch of day, and only one cigar and one beer I wouldn't have stopped smoking and drinking and honestly I don't even like beer or alcohol of any kind and the high is liked the flu to me... but my mind tells me different...

one aspect of being human and human frailty is the desire to be in control, while most people want to control others and situations, especially 'addicts' I understand my only god given right is to control my thoughts... so I work in that area. and that's where wiliness comes in. you might need it, but if you don't want it...

and those that take issue with what I've written, so what? who cares what the fuck you think. this is the way I live my life and is no concern of yours, unlike a religion. I don't need to convince anyone to believe what I believe so I'm 'okay with it', just like I accept a G_D in my life of MY understanding that works for me in my life...

small footnote about worry: worry is manufactured fear, and the best way to take a thought off fear is to help someone else

Jel

Nice post mate

BlackCrayon

i could see it being a mental disorder. addiction seems to stem from a person not being able to make sound choices. everyone knows if you do hard drugs, you're gonna be fucking up your life to some degree but people do it anyways. i've always avoided them because i know the damage they can do. the easiest way to never become an addict is to never start doing it in the first place.

i don't know if i buy the 'genetic disposition'. is this a medical fact or what? its kinda like saying being a failure is a genetic disposition. because uncle loser couldn't keep his shit together might mean you have a higher chance of not being able to keep your shit together but is that really due to genetics or environment or what expectations are of you or what?

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digitalfantasies

well said, reading this made me realize GFY is not completely filled with morons

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Best-In-BC

Its always a choice, rather you realize it or not, you are making the decisions, and till you say to your self, enough is enough, you will continue.

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seeandsee

It has something with head, situation and your head again, and nothing else

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arock10

Just look at obesity in the US. Drug addiction is a serious problem for sure but its all the mother fuckers hooked on soda and twinkes that are destroying their lives in much larger quantities. . Granted they aren't going to pawn my tv for a pizza but its still a harmful addiction...

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Choopa_Pardo

It depends on the substance.

I know a recovering heroin addict. That's a chemical dependency, and the worst destroyer of lives I have ever witnessed.

I know alcoholics, and they are chemical dependent as well.

I have a friend who was addicted to marijuana. No chemical dependency there, but a mental addiction.

Having witness all sides of addiction, both with drugs, alcohol, and even online gaming, it's a very real and very sad disease.

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Grapesoda

being a failure can in some way be a genetic disposition... if you have a subpar mental aptitude combined with some mental issue that causes rage, and that combined with low quality parenting...

I know the common dialog is to blame everything on whitey and the man but in truth at some point people are responsible for their behaviors'

I accepted full responsibility for my addiction, took the appropriate steps to resolve that issue and more importantly did not pass the bad parenting on to my Daughter

Grapesoda

the world according to GFY is you can't be addicted to weed, it's just 'vaping out' or 'getting high' .. IMO weed is the very worst offender because it doesn't really fuck your life up enough to notice that you need to change ...

Grapesoda

corn syrup addiction

Tom_PM

I think how to apply a decision on questions like this is more important. For instance if you are an alcoholic, it's considered a disease and covered by insurance and your company can send you for treatment because they love you and want you to be healthy. If you fail a pee test for smoking pot once you are fired and kicked to the gutter as if you're a lowlife scumbag criminal.

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Grapesoda

I don't want people all fucked up on weed working for me any more than I would want a fucking drunk running around in my biz

Tom_PM

Yeah that's fine of course, and the point is why treat them differently like we do now? If we say alcoholics are suffering from a disease, is it only because it's a legal substance? I remember having to take a urine test for drugs before being hired by a retail store, but nobody has ever tested me for alcohol. Seems weird to me.

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Grapesoda

because AA has a very powerful lobby and in fact founded the council of alcoholism to push this agenda AND like I said weed is a passive aggressive low quality drug... and doesn't fuck your life up enough to force a change... it's not very difficult to see the damage from booze, weed... different story

dyna mo

omg, that dude is educating a governmental body on addiction? that explains a lot, an awful lot. wow.

Tom_PM

So we end up with an obviously upside down way of treating people who are addicted to those substances. You could piss moonshine and still be hired to counsel children, but take a toke from a joint three months ago and it shows in your pee, fired.

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dyna mo

do you only hire sober people?

Jel

Tom you say it like it's the consensus (which is totally not the one here in the UK where alcoholism is totally misunderstood) that it's 'wrong' for alcohol addiction to be treated as a disease (not a term I personally like but hey ho does it even really matter) and weed addiction to be treated with disdain, rather than just focusing on weed addiction being brushed aside (as alcohol addiction pretty much is here). It's not a contest...

My apologies if I'm just reading it wrong.

PR_Glen

I'm pretty sure I have a genetic predisposition for addiction. Most would disagree because I don't do drugs, hardly ever drink and don't have a travel case full of prescription drugs.

I have always been mindful of it and try to point my addictions to positive things though.

-I'm addicted to fitness, and being strong
-I'm addicted to reading
-I'm addicted to learning new topics.
-I'm addicted to picking up new hobbies and skills


I'm addicted to business and money too, but I have clearly not mastered this yet hehe

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_Richard_

how is one 'fucked up on weed'

considering the amount of pills floating around..

Forest

as a recovering addict I believe i was genetically predisposed to becoming an addict. There have been addicts and alcoholics in every generation of family as far back as anyone in the family can remember and on both sides. So the odds where in the favor of becoming an addict from birth.

Now with that being said of course if I never picked up that first drug when I was a kid I would have never become an addict. Do I consider what I have a disease? Yes i do

Sept will be 7 years clean.

Grapesoda

welcome to reality

Grapesoda

as crew, yes. I have to take bullshit from the models but there is a line

Grapesoda

weed is nasty dude... when someone can't remember something for 3 minutes and their eyes look like some gomer on the nod and then the irritability sets in when it's time to use more weed... you think I need that bullshit at work?

dyna mo

that's what i meant, crew, you'd run out of models if that was a requirement on them.

Web XXX Bear

Either a choice or mental illness.

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_Richard_

it sound like you're describing the weed equivalent of 'non-potable substances'

you would probably fine the same results with 'do-it-yourself pharmacy'

arock10

the weed addicts you know might just be assholes with weed having nothing to do with it...

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dyna mo

the interesting thing about weed is that i think it can cause similiar habits as smoking ciggs, the hand to mouth, etc. if a stoner is smoking a lot, joints in part., i bet those sorts of addictions can manifest themselves so a stoner would be looking to fix the addiction of having something between their fingers and putting it to their mouth, a well known physical addiction

Tom_PM

Well.. thanks? but.. I've been here all along

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DAMNMAN

Anything a person chooses to do is a choice.
Even if there are genes that predispose certain traits in humans, things like wanting some dope or alcohol can be overcome by the mind. Weakness in any form can be overcome by training.

You will never convince me that something someone willingly chooses to do is a disease.

Of course once a person is addicted to something it does have very real physical aspects to overcome as well as the mental.

I personally chose to never do too much of anything or for too long so I'd never have to fight to quit. Personal choice for me.

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Jel

Well that bolded part is the point, no? Obviously you always have a 100% clear choice while not an addict, but like the boiling frog analogy, once you cross that invisible line, or end up on the other colour of the gradient, that rational choice isn't there any longer. It's only once you get clean that your rational mind & thought processes return.

That's how it was for me anyway, obviously I can't speak for anyone else. Sitting here clear-headed, sober, and rational, just like I was before alcoholism got a grip on me, I'm baffled as to how I 'let myself' get in that situation. It makes *zero* sense, none whatsoever.

I really do understand how someone who has never been an addict can't comprehend that it's most definitely an illness, both mental & physical (in my case, anyway). What does piss me off is the dismissiveness of it by those who have never experienced it. Weakness my ass, I spent 20 years trying to control my drinking, any other cunt would have given up trying to control it years ago - carrying on fighting it is the total opposite of weakness. And that's without even getting into how it isn't a case of whether a person is being weak-willed or not, in the first place.

BlackCrayon

i just wonder what makes people do despite knowing full well the dangers of doing so. drinking is a tricky thing, its hard to completely avoid. you can have a few drinks with friends and be done with it but for others, its not that easy. when it comes to drugs it much easier to completely avoid because its not a legal socially encouraged thing to do. i have never touched anything harder than weed or mushrooms simply because i know the dangers that come with going any further. i've seen too many lose everything and still not be able to smarten up.

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Jel

I'm not sure mate, mine was drinking, and no-one but no-one warns you when you start drinking that there's a possibility you'll end up an alcoholic. It's encouraged in our culture to drink, so if you are one of the ones who *do* have a problem with it, you don't know until you have it, and are fucked, so it's very much a catch-22 situation.

I've done weed, dope, pills, powder during my youth (pretty intensive 18 months lol) but yeah, never even thought about doing crack or heroin, because I'd heard they were so addictive. I can only speak on the alcohol side of things with any experience.