turn ing your back on the usa flag? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

GTS Mark · 02-26-2003, 04:28 PM

I love Canada

DH

eRock · 02-26-2003, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

well, I am a liberal..so imagine that I might not like conservative policy. I don't like that Bush had such little knowledge of the outside world priror to 9-11. That might not matter to you but then you don't live abroad. So, for me international matters are of vast importance because they directly effect my life. I'm not going to get into the Clinton debate because just as I as a liberal do not like Bush chances are a conservative is not going to like Clinton. However, as an American abroad I felt safer with him in office, I felt he was respected through out the world (even if not at home..ask Tony Blair about that one)..I was down right proud to be an American with some of the things he did internationally, etc. As soon as Bush came into office that was gone..he didn't care about the world. Well, I live in the world and I know that you turn your back on it at your on peril.

So, basiclly it is a difference in ideals. I do not tell you that you can't like him and vote for him. By all means do so, that is your right. I just don't feel safe under Bush either physically or as far as the protection of my beliefs go.

What the hell did Clinton do internationally to make you feel safer!?

And Bush's concerns are w/ the American people & America in general as the president should be. There's no reason we shouyld be stickin' our noses in other countries business unless it effects us directly.

rooster · 02-26-2003, 04:31 PM

Weak presidents are historically liked internationally. Foreign countries liked Clinton because they knew he would never do anything. Same thing with Jimmy Carter.

People like Bush and Regan though get their way, even if they have to piss off people to do it.

Also, how on earth can anyone say most media is right wing. CBS, NBC, ABC are as liberal as it can get. CNN is stays pretty neutral and tries not to rock the boat either way. Fox News is the only station with a right slant.

Things like talk radio and editorial shows are conservative because thats what middle america wants. Donahue just got cancelled because he was losing 6 to 1 in ratings against Oreilly.

DavePlays · 02-26-2003, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Once again you prove your ignorance.

Yeah.... one of us has....

Let me guess - you didn't inhale either?

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 04:34 PM

well i live in London..less bombs blowing up our busses due largely to him is one thing.

eRock · 02-26-2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Once again you prove your ignorance. Luckily, your ignorance keeps these threads entertaining.

There are countries where all U.S. presidents are hated, but outside of those countries, Clinton was loved and respected be people all over the world. Bush is hated and laughed at by people all over the world.

Internationally, Bush is considered the biggest joke of a president in the last 25 years at least. Even more so than his father, and that took a lot of effort. Do you actually know anyone who lives in another country? Have you been outside the U.S. during both presidencies?

Clinton loved & respected!?

Dave was right...we were the laughing stock of the world because of Clinton. I think this shows you're ignorance, Others outside of this country may not like Bush cuz he won't strand to be walked all over by other countries & the rest of the world knew they could get away w/ that w/ Clinton as our president. Shit...he was HUGELY against our own military! No wonder they loved him!

Sly_RJ · 02-26-2003, 04:36 PM

I see not many people here understand what symbolism is.

Our flag is not a simple piece of cloth. It's a symbol. A symbol that holds many people together through tough times.

Red. White. And blue. They aren't just colors. When bonded, they represent something much more.

eRock · 02-26-2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc
well i live in London..less bombs blowing up our busses due largely to him is one thing.

Well, Bush is the president of America...not any other country.

DavePlays · 02-26-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc
well i live in London..less bombs blowing up our busses due largely to him is one thing.

So you are telling me that Clinton was bombing busses in London - but not as bad as Bush is?

The US president does that kind of shit - no wonder they don't like us there!!!

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

So you are telling me that Clinton was bombing busses in London - but not as bad as Bush is?

The US president does that kind of shit - no wonder they don't like us there!!!

um, i do hope you are joking and know what I was talking about.

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock

Well, Bush is the president of America...not any other country.

International dimplomacy is part of the job. If he wanted to only be involved with domestics he should have stayed in domestic politics. Also, it does involved the states because American money was funding many of those bombs. Please don't tell me otherwise.

Sly_RJ · 02-26-2003, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

International dimplomacy is part of the job. If he wanted to only be involved with domestics he should have stayed in domestic politics. Also, it does involved the states because American money was funding many of those bombs. Please don't tell me otherwise.

I'm getting mixed signals here. So are you saying you think the President should get involved with the problems of other countries?

eRock · 02-26-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

International dimplomacy is part of the job. If he wanted to only be involved with domestics he should have stayed in domestic politics. Also, it does involved the states because American money was funding many of those bombs. Please don't tell me otherwise.

*Cough* Clinton Trade Polocies *Cough*

And it's not our job to babysit the rest of the world.

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

I'm getting mixed signals here. So are you saying you think the President should get involved with the problems of other countries?

I think, personally, it depends on the situation. Peace talk type things don't bother me in the least. And when the country the president comes from has such an important role in said situation(ie..ireland., even middle east peace talks) then yes I guess so.

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock
*Cough* Clinton Trade Polocies *Cough*

And it's not our job to babysit the rest of the world.

sorry...NORAID existed way before Clinton..

eRock · 02-26-2003, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

sorry...NORAID existed way before Clinton..

Maybe so, but he added fuel to the fire. Ah hem...China?

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock

Maybe so, but he added fuel to the fire. Ah hem...China?

Every heard of the Good Friday agreement?

eRock · 02-26-2003, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

I think, personally, it depends on the situation. Peace talk type things don't bother me in the least. And when the country the president comes from has such an important role in said situation(ie..ireland., even middle east peace talks) then yes I guess so.

Still not our job nor problem...unles, like I said above, it efects us directly.

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 04:59 PM

so, if there are people in the UK, germany, etc funding Osama, we are okay not to act on it because it doens't effect us directly?

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc
so, if there are people in the UK, germany, etc funding Osama, we are okay not to act on it because it doens't effect us directly?

That doesn't effect us directly?

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

Every heard of the Good Friday agreement?

Which is...???

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock

That doesn't effect us directly?

sorry I was in UK mode when I said 'us'

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock

Which is...???

please tell me you are joking.

dirtyone · 02-26-2003, 05:07 PM

National Symbol

by Charles Evans Hughes

The flag is the symbol of our national unity, our national endeavor, our national aspiration.

The flag tells of the struggle for independence, of union preserved, of liberty and union one and inseparable, of the sacrifices of brave men and women to whom the ideals and honor of this nation have been dearer than life.

It means America first; it means an undivided allegiance.

It means America united, strong and efficient, equal to her tasks.

It means that you cannot be saved by the valor and devotion of your ancestors, that to each generation comes its patriotic duty; and that upon your willingness to sacrifice and endure as those before you have sacrificed and endured rests the national hope.

It speaks of equal rights, of the inspiration of free institutions exemplified and vindicated, of liberty under law intelligently conceived and impartially administrated.

There is not a thread in it but scorns self-indulgence, weakness, and rapacity.

It is eloquent of our community interests, outweighing all divergencies of opinion, and of our common destiny.

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

please tell me you are joking.

No, I know what it is...I'm just wondering how you're interpreting it...

Joe Sixpack · 02-26-2003, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

please tell me you are joking.

I can't believe that you are actually surprised.

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack

I can't believe that you are actually surprised.

Typical response from a jealous non-American...

Joe Sixpack · 02-26-2003, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock

Typical response from a jealous non-American...

Jealous of what exactly?

If you think I want to live in the US you are sorely mistaken.

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack

Jealous of what exactly?

If you think I want to live in the US you are sorely mistaken.

Jealous of what? Whatta ya think? Our great country, of course! Duh.

I never said you wanted to live here, but it is pretty great all things considered.

Joe Sixpack · 02-26-2003, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock

Jealous of what? Whatta ya think? Our great country, of course! Duh.

I never said you wanted to live here, but it is pretty great all things considered.

Obviously you've never been to Australia.

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock

No, I know what it is...I'm just wondering how you're interpreting it...

how about you tell me how you interpret it..since I lived here before it, when it was being negotiated and after it.

JeremySF · 02-26-2003, 05:29 PM

Sarah, that's totally not true. What's the Top Rated weekly news program in America? 60 Minutes. 60 Minutes is comprised of all admitted liberals. Who are the news anchors for the big 3 networks? Peter Jennings, Tom Brokaw and Dan Rather, all admit to be liberals. Peter Jennings is even Canadian (talk about conspiracy

kidding of course). Moreover, two-thirds of all media people identify themselves as liberal.

Fox is the exception. Fox definitely skus to the right, but the rest of the networks, gimme a break.

Read Bias, by Bernie Goldberg. He illustrates the undeniable liberal bias of the media.

BIAS
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...sbn=0895261901

From Our Editors
Is there a liberal bias in America's media? Conservatives have made the argument for years, but former CBS broadcast journalist Bernard Goldberg claims that the problem is so widespread that he was forced to blow the whistle on his own industry. Goldberg says that the problem goes much deeper than a simple "Democrats are good, Republicans are bad" mentality; indeed, it is so pervasive that it's considered a matter of course, affecting every decision made by supposedly "impartial" journalists.

From the Publisher

Think the media are biased? CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN crying foul for years, but now a veteran CBS reporter has come forward to expose how liberal bias pervades the mainstream media. Even if you've suspected your nightly news is slanted to the left, it's far worse than you think. Breaking ranks and naming names, Emmy Award-winning broadcast journalist Bernard Goldberg reveals a corporate news culture in which the close-mindedness is breathtaking, journalistic integrity has been pawned to liberal opinion, and "entertainment" trumps hard news every time. In his three decades at CBS, Goldberg repeatedly voiced his concerns to network executives about the often one-sided nature of the news coverage. But no one listened to his complaints-or if they did listen, they did nothing about the problem. Finally, Goldberg had no choice but to blow the whistle on his own industry, to break the code of silence that pervades the news business. Bias is the result. As the author reveals, "liberal bias" doesn't mean simply being hard on Republicans and easy on Democrats. Real media bias is the result of how those in the media see the world-and their bias directly affects how we all see the world. In Bias you'll learn:

How on issues ranging from homelessness to AIDS, reporters have simply regurgitated the propaganda of pressure groups they favor, to the detriment of honest reporting

*The Peter Jennings test for classifying politicians-and how all the networks do it

*The network color bar-why so many "victims" on network news stories are blond-haired, blue-eyed, and middle class

*How one high-level CBS News executive told Goldberg that of course the networks tilt left-but in the next breath said he'd deny that statement if Goldberg ever went public

*One of the biggest stories of our time-and why you probably didn't hear about it on the evening news

*How political correctness in network newsrooms puts "sensitivity" ahead of facts

*The real Dan Rather-a man who regards criticism of liberal bias as treason.

If you ever suspected the network news was shortchanging the truth, Goldberg will not only prove you right, he'll give you a glimpse of just how it's done, and how fairness, balance, and integrity have disappeared from network television.

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc
also, most american media is right wing, you might not notice that because you are surrouned by it but almost anyone that watches it from outside cringes at the one sided nature of a lot of the news channels. Fox News in particular...that started up after I left and when I see it on tv over here (it is burried inthe channels) I get so mad about opinion being passed out as fact. I would get the same way if it was liberals doing it but it so happens that is right wing.

I think the truth is that whatever side you are on it is only when something clashes with your views that you take strong notice. Otherwise it just pases over you.

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack

I can't believe that you are actually surprised.

well, I shouldn't be I know but remember, I am American and I went to Amercian schools yet somehow I managed to learn geography and a bit about international politics. I was in the honours history and geography classes (not a brag, I sucked at other things) so I sometimes am suprised at what others weren't taught.

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 05:31 PM

jermey...regardless of what side you are on in the states you will swear there is a media biast. It is not balanced anyway you look at it..too much opinion in American news..either way.

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

how about you tell me how you interpret it..since I lived here before it, when it was being negotiated and after it.

My interpretation is what the hell does if have to dpo w/ what we were talkin' about?

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 05:33 PM

well it is an example of international diplomacy..which yeah has not all that much to do with the chick turning her back to the flag but then that was lost ages ago.

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc
jermey...regardless of what side you are on in the states you will swear there is a media biast. It is not balanced anyway you look at it..too much opinion in American news..either way.

Exactly! Unbalanced & slanting left...

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc
well it is an example of international diplomacy..which yeah has not all that much to do with the chick turning her back to the flag but then that was lost ages ago.

Gee that's funny. When ya brought that up I thought I mentioned something about Clinton trade polocies...

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 05:36 PM

well I will go for some channels slanting left and some slanting right. As someone who went to journalism school and is married to a journalist it ticks me off that there is any slant at all. News should be fact and not opinion . Yes, I am an idealist.

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

well, I shouldn't be I know but remember, I am American and I went to Amercian schools yet somehow I managed to learn geography and a bit about international politics. I was in the honours history and geography classes (not a brag, I sucked at other things) so I sometimes am suprised at what others weren't taught.

Nice smack in the face of your own, sarah. Please stay in London...

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc
well I will go for some channels slanting left and some slanting right. As someone who went to journalism school and is married to a journalist it ticks me off that there is any slant at all. News should be fact and not opinion . Yes, I am an idealist.

I agree w/ you...but MOST media is slanted very left. It's a known fact.

eRock · 02-26-2003, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack

Obviously you've never been to Australia.

Been there. A nice place to visit...

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock

Gee that's funny. When ya brought that up I thought I mentioned something about Clinton trade polocies...

you asked me what Clinton ever did to make me feel safer...I told you..you blew it off, I mentioned Americans funding terrorism in the UK, you told me that was because of Clinton's trade polcies..I told you that NORAID (I can help with that one too if you need it) was around way before Clinton...then I asked you if you knew what the Good Friday Agreement is..you apparently didn't. They are all connected.

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock

Nice smack in the face of your own, sarah. Please stay in London...

I said I went to Americans schools and I turned out okay..so how that that a smack? I was treating it more as proof that American schools do teach things. So, yes it does suprise me when people don't know basic geography. So, again, how is that a smack?

JeremySF · 02-26-2003, 05:42 PM

Okay, I'm in the states right now, but 1) I've lived overseas extensively. I've lived in Spain, London, Amsterdam, and spent many summers in other parts of Europe. 2) My Dad lives in of all places France

I don't understand what you mean "...too much opinion in American news..either way" Having lived overseas and to this day continuing to get the majority of my news from overseas news sources, I know for a fact that there significant bias in the European press, just a different bias. The European bias is much more anti-American, anti-Israel, than the American press is anti-European, b/c by and large the American press is comprised of people that share the European worldview.

Quote:

Originally posted by sarah_webinc
jermey...regardless of what side you are on in the states you will swear there is a media biast. It is not balanced anyway you look at it..too much opinion in American news..either way.

jonasty · 02-26-2003, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard
I love it when people from (more or less) third world companies burn my flag. I can just picture them all laughing about burning our flag while they are sitting in their fucking mud huts with no running water and eating rice.

or not eating at all with their AK47 and hatred for westerners to keep them warm at night.

DavePlays · 02-26-2003, 05:43 PM

Please - check this out.

I personally think it explains the "Flag" as well as I've ever heard.

http://home.att.net/~poofcatt/july.html

Some people in America still fell that way.....

Joe Sixpack · 02-26-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays
Please - check this out.

I personally think it explains the "Flag" as well as I've ever heard.

http://home.att.net/~poofcatt/july.html

Some people in America still fell that way.....

Awwwwww.... isn't that special!

Sarah_Jayne · 02-26-2003, 05:46 PM

so, read all the news you can get on both sides, as you see it, and make up your own mind ;) We have never been in a better age to do that.

JeremySF · 02-26-2003, 05:48 PM

Oh, come on.......I wouldn't say that's a smack in the face....fact is, in general we Americans rank poorly in geography. Shit, I still can't identify any state between the west coast and east coast

where the hell is Kansas anyway??

Quote:

Originally posted by eRock

Nice smack in the face of your own, sarah. Please stay in London...

02-26-2003, 04:36 PM	#107
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	I see not many people here understand what symbolism is. Our flag is not a simple piece of cloth. It's a symbol. A symbol that holds many people together through tough times. Red. White. And blue. They aren't just colors. When bonded, they represent something much more. __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

02-26-2003, 05:43 PM	#147
DavePlays Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: West (by God) Virginia Posts: 1,088	Please - check this out. I personally think it explains the "Flag" as well as I've ever heard. http://home.att.net/~poofcatt/july.html Some people in America still fell that way..... __________________ THE BEST CONVERTING TGP If I were only going to submit to one TGP, it would be BOOK-MARK.NET.

02-26-2003, 04:28 PM	#101
GTS Mark Vrume Mark Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 20,912	I love Canada DH

02-26-2003, 04:31 PM	#103
rooster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,384	Weak presidents are historically liked internationally. Foreign countries liked Clinton because they knew he would never do anything. Same thing with Jimmy Carter. People like Bush and Regan though get their way, even if they have to piss off people to do it. Also, how on earth can anyone say most media is right wing. CBS, NBC, ABC are as liberal as it can get. CNN is stays pretty neutral and tries not to rock the boat either way. Fox News is the only station with a right slant. Things like talk radio and editorial shows are conservative because thats what middle america wants. Donahue just got cancelled because he was losing 6 to 1 in ratings against Oreilly.

02-26-2003, 04:34 PM	#105
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	well i live in London..less bombs blowing up our busses due largely to him is one thing.

02-26-2003, 04:59 PM	#119
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	so, if there are people in the UK, germany, etc funding Osama, we are okay not to act on it because it doens't effect us directly?

02-26-2003, 05:07 PM	#124
dirtyone Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: God's Country (Georgia) Posts: 3,706	National Symbol by Charles Evans Hughes The flag is the symbol of our national unity, our national endeavor, our national aspiration. The flag tells of the struggle for independence, of union preserved, of liberty and union one and inseparable, of the sacrifices of brave men and women to whom the ideals and honor of this nation have been dearer than life. It means America first; it means an undivided allegiance. It means America united, strong and efficient, equal to her tasks. It means that you cannot be saved by the valor and devotion of your ancestors, that to each generation comes its patriotic duty; and that upon your willingness to sacrifice and endure as those before you have sacrificed and endured rests the national hope. It speaks of equal rights, of the inspiration of free institutions exemplified and vindicated, of liberty under law intelligently conceived and impartially administrated. There is not a thread in it but scorns self-indulgence, weakness, and rapacity. It is eloquent of our community interests, outweighing all divergencies of opinion, and of our common destiny.

02-26-2003, 05:31 PM	#134
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	jermey...regardless of what side you are on in the states you will swear there is a media biast. It is not balanced anyway you look at it..too much opinion in American news..either way.

02-26-2003, 05:33 PM	#136
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	well it is an example of international diplomacy..which yeah has not all that much to do with the chick turning her back to the flag but then that was lost ages ago.

02-26-2003, 05:36 PM	#139
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	well I will go for some channels slanting left and some slanting right. As someone who went to journalism school and is married to a journalist it ticks me off that there is any slant at all. News should be fact and not opinion . Yes, I am an idealist.

02-26-2003, 05:46 PM	#149
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	so, read all the news you can get on both sides, as you see it, and make up your own mind ;) We have never been in a better age to do that.