Sarah_Jayne

yeah but the USA would still be the USA without the cloth.

And yeah teenagers see things very black and white. We had to stop my husband's daughter from going on the peace marches in London mainly because we were worried about her safety but also because it was clear to us that she wasn't seeing the wider picture of who was going to be on the march. We had to point out that the march wasn't just going to be people that were for peace but had taggers along like the 'kill americans' lot and even the silly motorist rights lobby. Anyone who wanted to be seen to be protesting Tony Blair. In her mind she doesn't want war so it is clear you march against it. For her war is never needed, it is always bad to kill people. We had to remind her to think about ww2, etc and show her that as much as we all hate it sometimes war is needed (wether is it now is still up for debate). So, yeah as with this girl she was thinking black and white but I am still proud as heck of her for wanting to standup and excercise her right to have her voice heard.

Miss Novette

I did not see the news report, so I must speak generally.

The flag is our icon. It stands for freedom and I will always respect it. It's not just a piece of clothe.

This girl has the right to turn her back on the flag. Many people died for her to have that right. I, too, will die defending her rights and all other Americans rights.

However, others have the right to express their opinions of her for her actions. Freedom works both ways.

There are many other countries out there for her to choose to live. So I'm a little confused as to why she chooses to live in country that she does not respect or believe in?

I'm just a plain American girl doing the American thing by paying taxes and voting. I dont' always agree with our leaders, but I will not give up on America and our freedom.

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Sarah_Jayne

maybe she does respect it but things some things should be changed? Afterall, if people didn't stand up and ask for change there would still be a lot of things majorly wrong with our country. Should all of those people decided to leave instead?


i guess i always thought that if you disagree you should make yourself known.

traffictrader

::news flash::

the flag stands for more than just the troops that died in previous wars. It stand for those we killed in wars. For the Japanesse Americans we locked up during world war II. It stands for the capitalistic nature of the USA, it stands for the 300 billion dollar a year deficit the USA is projecting each year for the next 10 years, it stands for the billions being put into a war half the country doesn't agree with while the USA economy is the lowest its been this limetime, and chapter 11 backrupcy is the highest. It is a symbol of a nation divided (or as others would call it, a nation balanced). There are many reasons to respect the flag and to honor it, but if you think that their is no reason turn your back on it, and that all those who do are "uneducated," then I'm sorry you are vastly mistaken.

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rooster

turn your back on it, just makes it easier to

eRock

ANother bleeding heart liberal....

All you people bashing the US & our flag & what it represents that actua;lly live in this country,...no one's holding a gun to your head & making you stay here. It's funny how ya rag on the US & what an evil country we live in, yet I don't see you knockin' people over to get away from it all. There's always gonna be things you disagree with...cuz, hey, life's not fair. It's not just America that's not fair, people. One of the things that makes this country so great is that it's your right to hate this country w/o bein' locked up or shot...but just remember that when you're rippin' on the country, cuz a lot worse could be happening to you for that if you lived elsewhere.
And considering the American flag as "just a peice of cloth", well I guess that really shows your intelligence level, cuz it's what it represents & not what it's made out of. The "unhealthy obsession" we have w/ our flag shows how much we love & respect our country & by respecting our flag is respecting our country & what it stands for.

Go live in another country for a while & see how ya like it. I gaurauntee 99% of you will be running back here in a heartbeat.

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WarChild

If this same girl were traveling abroad and needed to find a US embessy for help .. How would you look for that? The American flag is a symbol for the united states.

So say molly goody shoes basketball player finds a US embessy, probably by looking for the flag .. And she goes to the gate and the US marine there just looks at her and turns his back on her...That'd be fair right? Can't have it both ways.

Fletch XXX

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It's her right, but somehow I doubt she really has a good reason... people who make silly statements like that usually don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

----------------------------------------------------------------
It is her right and you are right most who make a statement like this seem to be uninformed.

It is the Flag raising of Mount Sarabachee (sp)

They said it would take a million Marines a million years to take that position.

THe Marines did it in less than a two weeks

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jhen

How would you like One Wilshire behind your business

smack

america is going crazy. everyone, all nuts. i never thought i'd say this, but i might be running for the maple leaf.

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Sarah_Jayne

so, if the Embassy didn't have the flag on it it wouldn't be the Embassy...they say the US Embassy on them...been to a few ;)

eRock

Pussy.

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eRock

Ah jeez...splittin' hairs again.

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d0se

No shit hey... Everyone here is screamin about this girl's 'RIGHT' to turn her back on the flag, I bet it would be different if she had sparked up a zippo on that mofo....

So to speak...

eRock

I believe that's against the law...isn't it?

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asuna

wow so many replies

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DavePlays

She should be able to find one thing about America that she can respect enough not to make a spectacle of herself at a sporting event - we've always tried to keep the "games" and politics separate.

It wouldn't have hurt her to do the same.

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Rip

we don't want anymore pot heads here

seriously though, allowing freedom of speech and expression is the most important thing of all

I'm not an American, but to me the (American) flag represents the people of the country, not necessarily the politician who happens to be in charge in any particular term of office

And if someone wants to burn the flag, as much as I might find them to be idiots, that's their right to do that...

the biggest problem is that the media and society in general will focus in on the idiot and give them the attention that they want!

it's the same thing with murderrers and rapists, they get in the freaking media over and over again, and dumb fucking people lap it up like hungry dogs....

we rarely hear 1/100th the amount of information about the fine people who they snuffed out of existance, or about the trauma team or paramedics that valiantly tried to save their life

anyway as much as I don't like it, dumb people have the same rights as everyone else

Sarah_Jayne

unless it changed since I left the states, and it might well have, I believe it is still legal to burn the flag. However, starting a fire in a public place is most likely not.

And I know I was splitting hairs before but to say she wouldn't know where an American embassy was without a flag is silly. Also, it is those slight difference that make the point for me. You do not have to worship a flag to be a proud american and you do not have to be happy with everything America does to respect it as a whole.

eRock

I agree 100%. At least have some respect for the game, the players & the fans. She can protest w/ the rest of the cluless college kids later...

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DavePlays

I'd be careful WHERE you do that...

I know some places you would find the end of the flag you stuck up your ass going all the way through and coming out your mouth.

Which I think would be a cool thing to watch happen to you....

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Sarah_Jayne

I suggest you put 'english cricket team' and 'zimbabwe" into google..sport and politcs often meet. Plus, she knew she would be on camera there..what is the point on protesting to a blank wall.

DavePlays

Well said

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eRock

Well, maybe it used to illegal; to burn the flag. Not sure.

You seem to be missing the point about the flag, tho. It's not worshipping a flag, it's respecting the flag & what it stands for. I don't have a flag blowing outside my door, but I have 100% respect for it & I don't agree w/ everything going on in this country either.

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Mr.Fiction

Right wing media brainwashing in action.

The real people who turn their back on America are often the ones with the most flags.

John A*s*h*c*r*o*f*t loves the flag, he just hates the American constitution.

I prefer someone who desecrates the flag to someone who desecrates the constitution any day.

DavePlays

why doesn't one word of that rubbish suprise me coming from you? - Give it a rest - it's going to happen - even without your support - sit back and watch the Light's Over Badgdad Show on TV in a few weeks - John will be there - he's doing fine without your personal support too....

But as always - your comments are welcome if not appreciated.

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Sarah_Jayne

mr.fiction - have I told you that you rock.




Sarah
bleeding heart liberal looney and proud of it

eRock

I didn't know that even existed! I'd like to know where you've seen that cuz all I see is criminal liberal media brainwashing millions everyday...

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Sarah_Jayne

see, I know it is going to happen. I have decided to just take advantage of the fact that is going to happen and try to think positivly about Saddam being gone and just pray that it doesn't backfire in the way I fear it will. Doesn't mean I like the reasons and timings..just means I am realistic.

DavePlays

Damn.... and I wanted to call you that....

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DavePlays

And you're right!

It's time to stop the (US/Bush) bashing and be realistic.

(You're not looney after all.....)

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Sarah_Jayne

hey, I know my name...but you forgot to qoute the and proud of it bit ;)

eRock

Oh sure...just jump on the bandwagon.

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Sarah_Jayne

see, I never bash the US as a people..I do not like Bush..I really think much of what he does it down right wrong, even if he thinks it is right. However, I just want this over and I know it isn't going to be over until it starts.

You know, it is really scary being an American abroad right now.really scary. Guys calling for death to all americans found outside the US..living right here in this city. I can't speak in public incase someone hears my voice. And yes I think Bush has a lot to do with that ..but just get it the hell over with already so I can have a life.

Sarah_Jayne

honey, I was born on that wagon.


try being the only leftie in a republican household as a kid ..it makes for fun debates ;)

eRock

I'd like to know why you Bush bashers hate him so much. What has he done that's so bad? For some reason not one person has been able to give me a straight answer besides, "He just sucks!". Well, that's no reason. He's the best president we've had in a LONG time & I'd be really frightened if it were anyone else in charge right now. Shit, if it were anyone else we'd already be suckin' Osama cock & kissin' Saddam's ass.

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basschick

most of the people i know who feel they love the flag and all that stuff have one on their car. they leave it up at night (what happened to taking down the flag at night?) and drive around till it's frayed and torn and messed up.

i've always wondered how respectful they feel that is - i'm not into the flag thing, but it seems sort of strange to destroy it in the interests of showing your patriotism...

on another note, most - not all, but a large percentage - of the folks i've ever met who are into the "love it or leave it" thing are also racial bigots. how can we be "one nation under god" when so many feel that WHITE united statesians are the only ones that statement represents when we have citizens of every nation whose families have been here for over 100 years?

i love the ideals of freedom, brotherhood and equality our country was founded on. i'd love to see more of it in my everyday life.

DavePlays

I know you're aren't one of the "bashers"....

otherwise - AMEN.


and be safe!

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Mr.Fiction

The right wing media tries to make it seem like Bush is America. If you don't like Bush, then you don't like America. Everything is very simple, black and white, small words. It's simple to keep the talk radio crowd in line by telling them that any criticism of Bush's foreign or domestic policy is a direct attack on America. They would have you believe that Bush is America and America is Bush.

Of course, when Clinton was president, everything was just the opposite. It was patriotic to bash him, call him names, and talk about his penis all day and all night.

It's surprising to me that people fall for this stuff.

DavePlays

Only history will tell... but I think for a War-Time President - he's going to go down as a damn good one.

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eRock

It's surprising to me that you actually think Clinton was a good president. There were very few Clinton bashers, at least very few that were on poublic display, cuz like I mentioned above...there basically is no right wing media.

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Sarah_Jayne

well, I am a liberal..so imagine that I might not like conservative policy. I don't like that Bush had such little knowledge of the outside world priror to 9-11. That might not matter to you but then you don't live abroad. So, for me international matters are of vast importance because they directly effect my life. I'm not going to get into the Clinton debate because just as I as a liberal do not like Bush chances are a conservative is not going to like Clinton. However, as an American abroad I felt safer with him in office, I felt he was respected through out the world (even if not at home..ask Tony Blair about that one)..I was down right proud to be an American with some of the things he did internationally, etc. As soon as Bush came into office that was gone..he didn't care about the world. Well, I live in the world and I know that you turn your back on it at your on peril.

So, basiclly it is a difference in ideals. I do not tell you that you can't like him and vote for him. By all means do so, that is your right. I just don't feel safe under Bush either physically or as far as the protection of my beliefs go.

DavePlays

Where have I read that before.....?

Oh, I know - you've written the same "right wing media" crap 20 times in 20 different threads.



get with the program dude.... it's going to happen.

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Sarah_Jayne

also, most american media is right wing, you might not notice that because you are surrouned by it but almost anyone that watches it from outside cringes at the one sided nature of a lot of the news channels. Fox News in particular...that started up after I left and when I see it on tv over here (it is burried inthe channels) I get so mad about opinion being passed out as fact. I would get the same way if it was liberals doing it but it so happens that is right wing.


I think the truth is that whatever side you are on it is only when something clashes with your views that you take strong notice. Otherwise it just pases over you.

DavePlays

You were answering eRock's question.....?

and you "hate" the man for a "difference in ideals" ?


And for what it's worth - As far as Clinton getting respect from other countries, he made a laughing stock of the Presidency of the United States and was the butt of jokes world wide.

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DavePlays

But we were taking about that stupid kid turning her back on the flag....

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Sarah_Jayne

i hate the way he is ruling..Idon't know him personally so I wouldn't make such judgements. Clinton jokes were told because it was a funny situation..because most of the world didn't understand why it was even a big deal.

Please go to Ireland and tell them Bush is better for international politics.


lol...yeah the flag.

WarChild

--> so, if the Embassy didn't have the flag on it it wouldn't be the Embassy...they say the US Embassy on them...been to a few ;)


I don't think an Embassy is an Embassy without a flag. That is .. Have you ever been to a US Embassy that is NOT flying the flag?

The flag is taken with the staff if an Embassy is for any reason abandoned. So it's possible a building could read "US EMBASSY" and be empty and abandoned. If you want to get down to details that is.

Mr.Fiction

Once again you prove your ignorance. Luckily, your ignorance keeps these threads entertaining.

There are countries where all U.S. presidents are hated, but outside of those countries, Clinton was loved and respected be people all over the world. Bush is hated and laughed at by people all over the world.

Internationally, Bush is considered the biggest joke of a president in the last 25 years at least. Even more so than his father, and that took a lot of effort. Do you actually know anyone who lives in another country? Have you been outside the U.S. during both presidencies?

FlasherX

"Ignorance is bliss!" Sypher, The Matrix.