Do you have a chargeback rate under 3% - GoFuckYourself.com

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 12:31 PM

I remember the days when that was normal. Now it seems almost impossible. Does anyone else see that as well?

Problem is I am trying to set up cross sales like we had in the past however ccbill is not allowing it now because we are over 3%. Question is with all the fraud takin place how would that ever be possible. They are using a figure that was only feasible in 2003. So what now....no more cross sales?

Sly · 11-13-2012, 12:34 PM

Why would you think below 3% chargeback ratio is only feasible in 2003 and before?

Dirty F · 11-13-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

I remember the days when that was normal. Now it seems almost impossible. Does anyone else see that as well?

Problem is I am trying to set up cross sales like we had in the past however ccbill is not allowing it now because we are over 3%. Question is with all the fraud takin place how would that ever be possible. They are using a figure that was only feasible in 2003. So what now....no more cross sales?

2003? I'm well under 3%. Not sure what you are talking about.

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 12:40 PM

We were always under that until recently when chargeback rates shot up. In 2003 people weren't aware of how to game the system. Now most people realize just how simple it is to chargeback. For instance a few years ago I use I get emails like "oh my son signed up can you refund me". I never get an email like this anymore. Instead I just see the chargebacks. No complaints at all to my emails! In 2003 I was getting support or complaint emails daily!

TampaToker · 11-13-2012, 12:40 PM

At 3% be happy you still have processing

Is it in house traffic or affiliates ?

Sam - Mr. Skin · 11-13-2012, 12:41 PM

Under 1% always.

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

2003? I'm well under 3%. Not sure what you are talking about.

We get a lot of signups.

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TampaToker

At 3% be happy you still have processing

Is it in house traffic or affiliates ?

It's both.

Penny24Seven · 11-13-2012, 12:43 PM

I have 1 all year and it is from the phone option so I am not even sure that one counts the same. I do not have cross sales either which would probably cause me to get some

Roald · 11-13-2012, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

We were always under that until recently when chargeback rates shot up. In 2003 people weren't aware of how to game the system. Now most people realize just how simple it is to chargeback. For instance a few years ago I use I get emails like "oh my son signed up can you refund me". I never get an email like this anymore. Instead I just see the chargebacks. No complaints at all to my emails! In 2003 I was getting support or complaint emails daily!

perhaps if you had daily complaint emails in 2003 already you could have worked a bit on your memberarea to get rid of the complaints?

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sam_mrskincash

Under 1% always.

So what's your secret? How do you manage to avoid intentional fraud?

Yanks_Todd · 11-13-2012, 12:44 PM

We run at .5%. I suggest you look at your customer service practices, refund policies, chargeback dispute methods and whether or not your sites marketing is accurate to what your end customer is getting.

3% seems really high

Dirty F · 11-13-2012, 12:45 PM

Just checked. 0.23 this year.

TampaToker · 11-13-2012, 12:45 PM

Ann hit me up on icq please 247-742-205

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

perhaps if you had daily complaint emails in 2003 already you could have worked a bit on your memberarea to get rid of the complaints?

Lol I did. This was 2003 and I'm only using it as an example to illustrate how customers were more in touch with site support back then as opposed to now.

Dirty F · 11-13-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

We get a lot of signups.

So? A percentage doesn't change.

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TampaToker

Ann hit me up on icq please 247-742-205

I uninstalled icq do you have an email?

epitome · 11-13-2012, 12:47 PM

Way under 3%...

Can you even get processing if it is that high?

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

So? A percentage doesn't change.

More possibility for fraudulent signups.

We also seem to be targeted by this fraud group that uses our images in elaborate dating scams.

Yanks_Todd · 11-13-2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

So what's your secret? How do you manage to avoid intentional fraud?

IMHO, I don't think intention fraud causes a majority of that 3%. People who do that are blacklisted and then no more pay porn for them. It happens but I think the issue is elsewhere. Just my two cents, you know your business better then I do. But I would look in a few directions.

Sam - Mr. Skin · 11-13-2012, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

So what's your secret? How do you manage to avoid intentional fraud?

I would say it's a combination of...

1. Being very clear about what is being sold, at what price and making sure to deliver that.

2. Quality content updates daily.

3. Constantly working to improve the member area including taking input from members and implementing their ideas when you can.

4. Being proactive on the customer service side by giving refunds when there is a high probability of a CB. A refund isn't fun, but a CB is far worse.

And I agree with Todd.

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 12:50 PM

When I spoke to ccbill they said the chargebacks seems to be occurring at a high rate from "women's accouts". So how do I ban women lol!? But they said it seems suspicious that it is coming from women. My question is do women really sing up to porn sites like this? Lol. Or is it obvious fraud?

Dirty F · 11-13-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

More possibility for fraudulent signups.
.

So more normal signups.
A % does not change.

TampaToker · 11-13-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

I uninstalled icq do you have an email?

yeah john at ruseful.com

Roald · 11-13-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

When I spoke to ccbill they said the chargebacks seems to be occurring at a high rate from "women's accouts". So how do I ban women lol!? But they said it seems suspicious that it is coming from women. My question is do women really sing up to porn sites like this? Lol. Or is it obvious fraud?

refund female memberships right away. stolen cards.

Sam - Mr. Skin · 11-13-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

refund female memberships right away. stolen cards.

Yeah, if that's the case then you are looking at fraud.

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

refund female memberships right away. stolen cards.

I was toying with that as well but haven't done it. You really think so? But I can't understand the reasoning behind this. Why would they use women's accounts?

epitome · 11-13-2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

More possibility for fraudulent signups.

You should be able to have 1,000 joins a day and still have the same % CB ratio.

There is a reason the associations keep it as a flat % and not a scaling % ... whether 10 or 1,000 sales a day CB ratio should be under 1%.

If someone is using your images as a scam on dating sites then the only reason they would be sending you sales is because they are an affiliate. Ban them. Look at referrers and find out who they are.

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TampaToker

yeah john at ruseful.com

Email sent. Did you get it?

epitome · 11-13-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

I was toying with that as well but haven't done it. You really think so? But I can't understand the reasoning behind this. Why would they use women's accounts?

Because most programs don't refund them and only the smart one's do... so they have a good chance of slipping it through.

Dirty F · 11-13-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

You should be able to have 1,000 joins a day and still have the same % CB ratio.

There is a reason the associations keep it as a flat % and not a scaling % ... whether 10 or 1,000 sales a day CB ratio should be under 1%.
.

For some reason he/she fails to understand that.

TampaToker · 11-13-2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

Email sent. Did you get it?

yeap i got it and replied

Dirty F · 11-13-2012, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TampaToker

yeap i got it and replied

Can you send me some cock pictures too?

JesseQuinn · 11-13-2012, 01:12 PM

I've had 2 chargebacks in 4 years. Technically three...an indy site I use gave a chargeback to the wrong customer. My guy didn't chargeback, but the site accidentally refunded him instead of the customer of another chica who did do a chargeback. I stopped directing traffic to that site after that, so over the years the site has lost several thousand (their cut) in potential sales over a $50 mistake for which they refused to reimburse me.

I have a record of every video call I do, though, which probably makes the thieves a little more reticent to try that ish. If I sold content only I imagine it would be a little bit higher. I think the more personalized the interaction, the less likely guys are to try to scam. Just a theory, but based on my observations that seems to be the case?

Either way, 3% seems...high. If one is talking about 3% of $1000, then yeah, one $30 cb would be 3%. If you're doing decent volumes def consider some of the suggestions posted in this thread.

+1 on the 'female customer' thing...I immediately refund any booking made in the name of a chica, which sucks because I know there are some female customers out there. I had a couple of (cam2cam) female customers back when I did big box camming and they were awesome. Not worth the risk, unfortunately

iSpyCams · 11-13-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

I was toying with that as well but haven't done it. You really think so? But I can't understand the reasoning behind this. Why would they use women's accounts?

If you seem to have a lot of women signing up then what you have is a lot of fraud.

If you get a signup from a woman's credit card it is either
1) a stolen card or a
2) kid using his mom's card, or
3) an idiot using his wife/girlfriend's card.

In any of those 3 cases when the card owner sees the bill, you are getting a chargeback.

The reason credit card thieves use women's cards is because they are going down a list and around half the cards are going to be women. So find out what affiliate is sending the sales with women's cards (check the declines too) about 99% sure the male credit cards from that same affiliate are stolen too.

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

If you seem to have a lot of women signing up then what you have is a lot of fraud.

If you get a signup from a woman's credit card it is either
1) a stolen card or a
2) kid using his mom's card, or
3) an idiot using his wife/girlfriend's card.

In any of those 3 cases when the card owner sees the bill, you are getting a chargeback.

The reason credit card thieves use women's cards is because they are going down a list and around half the cards are going to be women. So find out what affiliate is sending the sales with women's cards (check the declines too) about 99% sure the male credit cards from that same affiliate are stolen too.

Oh really good tips here. Thank you!

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 01:25 PM

I wonder if I can get ccbill to just block women accounts in this case.

SmutHammer · 11-13-2012, 01:37 PM

1.9% here, But that is only because of last month... had more chargbacks that month than we did the whole year before...

Barefootsies · 11-13-2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

Why would you think below 3% chargeback ratio is only feasible in 2003 and before?

My thoughts exactly.

I've been doing pay sites for more than 10+ years, and never been over even a half a percent, much less 1%. That is even back in the "good ole days". If you're getting a flood of CB's, then you are doing something wrong.

Barefootsies · 11-13-2012, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

We run at .5%. I suggest you look at your customer service practices, refund policies, chargeback dispute methods and whether or not your sites marketing is accurate to what your end customer is getting.

True dat fine sire.

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 01:46 PM

All excellent tips. Good to know its still feasible. Now onto the work of prevention and improvement as some people pointed out. Thank you for the great tips.

iSpyCams · 11-13-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann-Angelcom

I wonder if I can get ccbill to just block women accounts in this case.

Nope but you can review your transactions on a daily basis and refund the women. That's what I do as I deal with a lot of chat traffic and I am willing to bet you do too, whether you realize it or not.

As a matter of fact I seem to recall when I first learned about chat sales it seemed about half of the chat agents were using Ann Angel pics and videos and pretending to be her, regardless of what site they were selling. I think the main reason is that there were a good variety of Ann Angel webcam shows circulating with no watermarks where shes just sitting there smiling and typing for a few minutes and the chatters could play that video using split cam to make the surfer think he was chatting with her live.

Anyway based on that you are probably never going to have good enough ratios to do cross sales with CCBill.

Use Netbilling, they have faster payouts and you can export all your transactions daily to a spreadsheet and refund the fraud joins.

Sort all your transactions by first name, look for women.
Sort them by IP address, look for multiple joins from same IP
Sort by Card #, look for the same customer trying a long list of cards

There are a lot of other things to look for but with those 3 things you can eliminate a large percentage of your fraud.

Wizzo · 11-13-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Phil

is that the same as the "excuse me sir syndrome"

That's more Philippines... Vietnam is stolen CCs, good proxies, and traffic bots. Some of the good ones even through some real traffic in to mix it up.

Raja · 11-13-2012, 03:08 PM

email me please raja {{at}} clickpinkmedia {{dot}} com

Mutt · 11-13-2012, 03:20 PM

wtf - i've never heard of a CCBILL site with a 3% chargeback rate - i'm under 1% - occassionally when they come in a big batch at once it goes up a bit over 1% but drops below over the next month or two.

aren't you the guy who makes new members call a phone number to verify themselves? i can't imagine joining a porn site and being forced to call any phone number - that might be part of your chargeback problem right there

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

wtf - i've never heard of a CCBILL site with a 3% chargeback rate - i'm under 1% - occassionally when they come in a big batch at once it goes up a bit over 1% but drops below over the next month or two.

aren't you the guy who makes new members call a phone number to verify themselves? i can't imagine joining a porn site and being forced to call any phone number - that might be part of your chargeback problem right there

Yup I'm that guy and the reasoning behind it is to actually prevent fraud on the new site. If a customer has a problem with it they don't join to begin with. Anna is very popular and it really opens gates to a lot of fraud. What was said about her shows being used illegally is exactly part of the problem.

AdultEUhost · 11-13-2012, 04:22 PM

We are at 0%, lucky us :-)

epitome · 11-13-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyClips

Sure you'll always get a chargeback or two here and there but if you're getting a lot of them then you're falsely advertising somewhere. It's not rocket science

Please stick to things you know about like lizard people, panhandling, finding good roommates, asking for investors on GFY and nonexistent negative numbers.

Ann-Angelcom · 11-13-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultEUhost

We are at 0%, lucky us :-)

Haha that's awesome. Good for you! I can only dream lol

PAR · 11-13-2012, 05:17 PM

Not sure how you are still able to take transactions with a 3% CHB
Visa USA I think is maxed at 1% EU maxed at 2%

If you can look at the geo locations of your charge backs and ask yourself if there are some you want to just block,

Look at your webmasters and look at each ones chb rate for the past year, ban some of the righer ones

Look at your own traffic sources, remove ones with overly high chb rates

You have 1 prechecked cross sale going out and 1 unchecked to yourself..

Doing so can cause you to endup with more chb's negating the $ gained (do the un-checked sites have a higher CHB rate than you like if so consider removing it for for a time to see if that number drop helps you

Place a link to your support in tour footers and in members areas

11-13-2012, 12:31 PM	#1
Ann-Angelcom Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: new york Posts: 500	Do you have a chargeback rate under 3% I remember the days when that was normal. Now it seems almost impossible. Does anyone else see that as well? Problem is I am trying to set up cross sales like we had in the past however ccbill is not allowing it now because we are over 3%. Question is with all the fraud takin place how would that ever be possible. They are using a figure that was only feasible in 2003. So what now....no more cross sales?

11-13-2012, 12:34 PM	#2
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,328	Why would you think below 3% chargeback ratio is only feasible in 2003 and before? __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

11-13-2012, 12:40 PM	#4
Ann-Angelcom Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: new york Posts: 500	We were always under that until recently when chargeback rates shot up. In 2003 people weren't aware of how to game the system. Now most people realize just how simple it is to chargeback. For instance a few years ago I use I get emails like "oh my son signed up can you refund me". I never get an email like this anymore. Instead I just see the chargebacks. No complaints at all to my emails! In 2003 I was getting support or complaint emails daily! __________________ Digitalangeldollars.com 10% on all referrals!! NOW PAYING 75% OF ALL SALES!!!

11-13-2012, 12:40 PM	#5
TampaToker Confirmed User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa Posts: 5,827	At 3% be happy you still have processing Is it in house traffic or affiliates ? __________________ Icq 247-742-205

11-13-2012, 12:43 PM	#9
Penny24Seven So Fucking What Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 6,287	I have 1 all year and it is from the phone option so I am not even sure that one counts the same. I do not have cross sales either which would probably cause me to get some __________________ Our site is coming soon. It will be one of the best ever! I know so. Brian and Penny

11-13-2012, 12:41 PM	#6
Sam - Mr. Skin Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,688	Under 1% always.

11-13-2012, 12:44 PM	#12
Yanks_Todd Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Valencia Posts: 2,490	We run at .5%. I suggest you look at your customer service practices, refund policies, chargeback dispute methods and whether or not your sites marketing is accurate to what your end customer is getting. 3% seems really high __________________ Todd Spaits - Co-founder -YanksCash Premium ad-packages available - Skype for details - tmspaits

11-13-2012, 12:45 PM	#13
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204	Just checked. 0.23 this year.

11-13-2012, 12:45 PM	#14
TampaToker Confirmed User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa Posts: 5,827	Ann hit me up on icq please 247-742-205 __________________ Icq 247-742-205

11-13-2012, 12:47 PM	#18
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	Way under 3%... Can you even get processing if it is that high?

11-13-2012, 12:50 PM	#22
Ann-Angelcom Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: new york Posts: 500	When I spoke to ccbill they said the chargebacks seems to be occurring at a high rate from "women's accouts". So how do I ban women lol!? But they said it seems suspicious that it is coming from women. My question is do women really sing up to porn sites like this? Lol. Or is it obvious fraud? __________________ Digitalangeldollars.com 10% on all referrals!! NOW PAYING 75% OF ALL SALES!!!

11-13-2012, 01:12 PM	#34
JesseQuinn feeding the wolves Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: between sand and stars in Jamaica Posts: 6,425	I've had 2 chargebacks in 4 years. Technically three...an indy site I use gave a chargeback to the wrong customer. My guy didn't chargeback, but the site accidentally refunded him instead of the customer of another chica who did do a chargeback. I stopped directing traffic to that site after that, so over the years the site has lost several thousand (their cut) in potential sales over a $50 mistake for which they refused to reimburse me. I have a record of every video call I do, though, which probably makes the thieves a little more reticent to try that ish. If I sold content only I imagine it would be a little bit higher. I think the more personalized the interaction, the less likely guys are to try to scam. Just a theory, but based on my observations that seems to be the case? Either way, 3% seems...high. If one is talking about 3% of $1000, then yeah, one $30 cb would be 3%. If you're doing decent volumes def consider some of the suggestions posted in this thread. +1 on the 'female customer' thing...I immediately refund any booking made in the name of a chica, which sucks because I know there are some female customers out there. I had a couple of (cam2cam) female customers back when I did big box camming and they were awesome. Not worth the risk, unfortunately __________________ throwing molotav cocktails at the precinct

11-13-2012, 01:25 PM	#37
Ann-Angelcom Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: new york Posts: 500	I wonder if I can get ccbill to just block women accounts in this case. __________________ Digitalangeldollars.com 10% on all referrals!! NOW PAYING 75% OF ALL SALES!!!

11-13-2012, 01:37 PM	#38
SmutHammer Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,266	1.9% here, But that is only because of last month... had more chargbacks that month than we did the whole year before...

11-13-2012, 01:46 PM	#41
Ann-Angelcom Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: new york Posts: 500	All excellent tips. Good to know its still feasible. Now onto the work of prevention and improvement as some people pointed out. Thank you for the great tips. __________________ Digitalangeldollars.com 10% on all referrals!! NOW PAYING 75% OF ALL SALES!!!

11-13-2012, 03:08 PM	#44
Raja Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Santa Margarita Posts: 1,094	email me please raja {{at}} clickpinkmedia {{dot}} com __________________ Skype: hollywoodraja

11-13-2012, 03:20 PM	#45
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	wtf - i've never heard of a CCBILL site with a 3% chargeback rate - i'm under 1% - occassionally when they come in a big batch at once it goes up a bit over 1% but drops below over the next month or two. aren't you the guy who makes new members call a phone number to verify themselves? i can't imagine joining a porn site and being forced to call any phone number - that might be part of your chargeback problem right there __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

11-13-2012, 04:22 PM	#47
AdultEUhost ORLY? Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NL & US Posts: 2,579	We are at 0%, lucky us :-) __________________ ICQ: 267-443-722 / leon [at] adulteuhost [dotcom] Nominated for an XBIZ Award as "Webhost of the Year" in 2007, 2012, 2013 and 2014

11-13-2012, 05:17 PM	#50
PAR Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,835	Not sure how you are still able to take transactions with a 3% CHB Visa USA I think is maxed at 1% EU maxed at 2% If you can look at the geo locations of your charge backs and ask yourself if there are some you want to just block, Look at your webmasters and look at each ones chb rate for the past year, ban some of the righer ones Look at your own traffic sources, remove ones with overly high chb rates You have 1 prechecked cross sale going out and 1 unchecked to yourself.. Doing so can cause you to endup with more chb's negating the $ gained (do the un-checked sites have a higher CHB rate than you like if so consider removing it for for a time to see if that number drop helps you Place a link to your support in tour footers and in members areas