jimboc

How do you suggest we disarm him without force? take a tickling stick?

we have tried for 10 years, each time the UN issues a resolution he ignores it, until the threat of force and then he complies just enough to make people waiver and make another resolution, the last one was meant to be the last in a long string, a final resolution, in cat terms he used up all his lives, but now, because he has agreed to cooperate in some ways he will get another chance.

He is playing with us and laughing as millions march against war, he is a better master of spin than many of the world leaders.

We need to get in and attack him, bomb the huge military presidents residences and the missile sites, the chemical and dual use sites, with the new technologies they apparenly have 10 times the fire power of 10 years ago

we are all tech geeks and we know how much computers have moved on in 10 years, the war would be over in weeks.

dig420

the question isn't HOW, it's WHY.

WHY should our government spend billions of OUR dollars to disarm, and risk the lives of American soldiers?

Why him and not Kim Jong Il or Zhu Rongji or Osama Bin Laden?

directfiesta

Propaganda???? if not, post URL or title of books stating those facts... Sounds like a movie....

Yes, he did gas a village of 5000 in the North, villagers that we arsked by CIA to overturn Sadam Hussein. When it becan=me nasty, the CIA exited and left the kurds to die...



Take the time to read: Where the fuck were the americasns????

In 1991, after the Gulf War, President Bush encouraged
Iraqis to rise up and overthrow Saddam Hussein. In the
south, among the Shia Arabs who make up some 60
percent of Iraq's population, there were revolts in
several towns; and there were also uprisings among
northern Iraq's Kurds, who make up between 15 and 20
percent of Iraq's 23 million people. The US did
nothing. The administration was alarmed at the
prospect that Iraq would be torn apart, that the Shias
would lead a bloody Islamic revolution dominated by
neighboring Shia Iran, and that the Kurds would
declare independence, provoking angry and violent
reactions from, among others, America's close ally
Turkey, with its own restive Kurdish population.
Indeed it even signaled discreetly to Saddam Hussein,
who was then rallying the Sunni Arab Iraqis, who have
always dominated his country's politics despite being
only some 15 percent of the population, that he should
go ahead and crush the rebellions.[1] With
characteristic savagery he did so.

All across Kurdish-dominated northern Iraq the Kurds
had seized control, but now Saddam's forces came
roaring back. Terrified that they would again be
gassed, approximately a million Kurds fled toward the
Iranian and Turkish borders. There they were greeted
by hordes of reporters from the world press. The sight
of desperate Kurds clinging to the mountainsides on US
television embarrassed the Bush administration, which
decided it had to do something. Saddam was told to
pull back his forces, and US and British troops
entered northern Iraq. The British and Americans then
began to patrol a no-fly zone above the region, the
refugees returned, and in this way an autonomous,
though internationally unrecognized, Kurdish entity
emerged. Today 3.6 million Kurds live here, free from
Saddam's tyranny. The US and British troops have gone
but the no-fly zone is still enforced and much of this
part of Kurdistan, which had been reduced to rubble by
Saddam especially in brutal suppression campaigns in
the late 1980s, has been rebuilt.


http://mai.flora.org/forum/39230

jimboc

Are we going to war with China after this? Are we going to liberate the Congo, nuke the North Koreans??

Truthfully I think the Kereans will be next, the thing with Korea is all the UN countries can refuse to do business with them, thus crippling the country, and they will if any evidence of nuclear production for warheads comes from the fired up nuclear plant, they have spies, it will only be a matter of time for the Koreans too.

In fact Bush has major world peace plans, but I am sure he will take it steady 1 at a time...

directfiesta

A lot of blablabla, but no facts!

10 times the firepower of 10 years ago? Even Powell would not dare say something so stupid.

Where does he hide this? Up his ass and we will eventually nuke the US with a big fart????


Stop typing, start reading.

nap

dont forget about the okc bombing

BigFish

Yeah, because if the "American CIA" would have gotten involved, people like you would gripe about it. But when there's a clear fact that Saddam did kill them, people like you still gripe that the Americans didn't do anything to prevent it.

jimboc

Propaganda???? if not, post URL or title of books stating those facts...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...man_rights.pdf

is that enough human rights abuses for you?

dig420

In fact Bush has major world peace plans, but I am sure he will take it steady 1 at a time...
----------

oh yes, the all wise and totally compassionate but tough cocaine snorting, average iq, born-with-a-silver-spoon-in-his-mouth Dubya is going to bring about lasting world peace thru sagacious use of tactical nuclear warheads.



WAR IS PEACE. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.

Theo

directfiesta

You need to replenish your knowledge.

Basically, all that part of the world is very scary. A lot of clans, of various religious groups, ethnics groups and so on...
Turkey, the US alley, attacked the Kurds in the North, because they were scared that they would join with the Kurds fighting for Iran , and that Iraq would become an extremist muslim country... this is a very small resume , because I know you won't even read this document ( from a rightist University) describing the whole situation at the time you refer massacres were commited ( and they were) by Sadam... But as your president knows so well, there is more than one side ( or evil) to each situation.

Try to read let's say 100 lines!

http://www.ccasls.umontreal.ca/contents/iraqi.htm

Sorry, there is no pictures....

jimboc

What have you got to say about the human rights abuses then?, you challenged me to post a URL, you said"show me a published document" you can't get better than a government document.

jimboc

I would post the main dossier but parts have been acused of being "ripped off" from another source, altho they stand by the contents being true and say it was only 1 page that was taken from another document.

directfiesta

I will read this document. It does seem legitimate and btw I never said that Sadam was a nice guy, but that posts here were exagerating facts, including the 9/11 link.

dig420

read this slowly JimboC., and try to digest it:

nobody denies that Saddam abuses human rights. however, so a couple dozen other dictators around the world, and if you wanna get down to brass tacks the USA probably has more people in prison per capita than just about anybody else because of the drug war, and your human rights and your asshole get seriously violated in prison, right?

so why should billions of our dollars be used to topple Saddam Hussein, when we've already spent so many millions keeping him in power pre-1990?

directfiesta

And to begin with the puppet the US installed in Chile ( killing an elected president: Salvatore Allende) General Pinochet. I think Sadam would look like an angel to compare to that man.

http://www.trentu.ca/~mneumann/pinochet.html

jimboc

This document outlines the quantity of weapons, more than enough to kill the entire world population more that once, in the hands of a mad man,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...raqdossier.pdf

It paints a picture of life in Iraq it's well worth a glacing look

directfiesta

Which university student wrote this British document?

dig420

here's something else for you to glace at Jimbo: where do you suppose Saddam got all those nasty chemical weapons in the first place?

After Rumsfeld's visit to Baghdad in 1983, U.S.
intelligence began supplying the Iraqi dictator with
satellite photos showing Iranian deployments. Official
documents suggest that America may also have secretly
arranged for tanks and other military hardware to be shipped
to Iraq in a swap deal--American tanks to Egypt, Egyptian
tanks to Iraq. Over the protest of some Pentagon skeptics,
the Reagan administration began allowing the Iraqis to buy a
wide variety of "dual use" equipment and materials from
American suppliers. According to confidential Commerce
Department export-control documents obtained by NEWSWEEK, the shopping list included a computerized database for Saddam's Interior Ministry (presumably to help keep track of political opponents); helicopters to transport Iraqi officials;
television cameras for "video surveillance applications";
chemical-analysis equipment for the Iraq Atomic Energy
Commission (IAEC), and, most unsettling, numerous shipments
of "bacteria/fungi/protozoa" to the IAEC. According to
former officials, the bacterial cultures could be used to
make biological weapons, including anthrax. The State
Department also approved the shipment of 1.5 million atropine
injectors, for use against the effects of chemical weapons,
but the Pentagon blocked the sale. The helicopters, some
American officials later surmised, were used to spray poison
gas on the Kurds.
The United States almost certainly knew from its own
satellite imagery that Saddam was using chemical weapons
against Iranian troops. When Saddam bombed Kurdish rebels and civilians with a lethal cocktail of mustard gas, sarin, tabun
and VX in 1988, the Reagan administration first blamed Iran, before acknowledging, under pressure from congressional Democrats, that the culprits were Saddam's own forces. There was only token official protest at the time. Saddam's men were unfazed. An Iraqi audiotape, later captured by the Kurds,
records Saddam's cousin Ali Hassan al-Majid (known as Ali
Chemical) talking to his fellow officers about gassing the
Kurds. "Who is going to say anything?" he asks. "The
international community? F----k them!"

Congressional Record: September 20, 2002 (Senate)
Page S8987-S8998

jimboc

exagerating facts, including the 9/11 link.

There is no 9/11 link, but what stops Iraq producing weapons and passing them on to other terroist groups, who could in turn fall into the hands of the people who were responsible for 9/11

The fact is the Afghans hate Iraq!, but they share something they both hate us!

dig420

what stops the Belgians from doing the same?

J B

It was asked before... why is anti-war equated with anti-american?

__________________

jimboc

The answer? we sold them to him unlawfully, and my country the UK had a part in it, in the city where I used to live there was a huge factory that was found to be shipping arms to Iraq illegally, is was subsiquently closed and fire bombed by people in discust, we are a very democratic above board country but there can be curruption everywhere, look at the recent news with big US companies, is most cases of course Iraq got hold of the raw materials and manufactured this stuff at "dual use" sites that were meant to be manufacturing legitimate chemicals.

Joe Sixpack

Because Americans love war.

jimboc

and another point why Iraq, because they have used these weapons other nations have not, and they have documents to prove that they are intent on using them again on Isreal and other nations.

Jay_StandAhead

Since you have proofs, can you share them with the world so that a UN resolution to attack Iraq will be adopted?

If someone has enough weapons to destroy the world, he MUST store them somewhere, right? Or maybe they also have stealth technology on those weapons?

The UN inspectors are disarming Iraq. No need to kill thousands of people in the process. It'll work, and Hussein won't have any more weapons.

And if he does not cooperate, or is proven to be hiding weapons of mass destruction, then there will be no choice but to attack Iraq. Untill then, chill.

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Jay_StandAhead

I don't see anyone being against disarming Iraq. Everybody agrees.

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jimboc

Well if we knew where they were then it would be great like you say, the problems are:

Iraq is huge

They could be hidden in several buildings anywhere in or even outside of the country

When people are quesioned their families are threatened with the "acid bath"

The chemical workers are infact Iraq's own officials posing as workers

they could move the weapons weekly

enough chemicals to kill the entire population of London around 10 million people, could fit in a box the size of a 24 pack of beer.

12clicks

That article says a lot.

The idiot responses to it in this thread show why europe fails.
If I lived there I guess I'd resent my betters as well.

And to the assclowns who think 9/11 isn't a reason for war, you kids don't have a clue. You're the same group of assholes who said,"russia lost a 15yr war fighting the mighty afghans, so will the US"

sorry euro-pansies, we're not russia. we're not comparable to ANY other power in all of history, not even the roman empire.
When this war starts, we're going to tell you to jump, and by god, you *will* jump for us.

and to this punk:
I say, grow up you fucking teenage punk.

__________________

the indigo

Okay.

Who are the terrorists? If you can't seriously think about this, don't bother posting on the subject.

I'm canadian and I would be pissed at USA. Imagine that worldwide. Terrorists don't have to be Iraqi. They can be just pissed at how the USA is acting.

jimboc

When this war starts, we're going to tell you to jump, and by god, you *will* jump for us.

i get the feeling when the time comes the majority of the UK will be with you, if not our government will be.

12clicks

Well, its been what, 12 years and they haven't even stopped shooting at our planes let alone disarm.

I guess if we give them another 6 months, they completely disarm right?

dope.

__________________

12clicks

The UK is our staunchest ally. We would die for them and they would die for us.
Our loyalty to each other is not in question. We each have dopey protesters. We each know how to ignore them and do the right thing.
It's the rest of the euro-pansies who will be told to jump.

__________________

Jay_StandAhead

With the current UN resolution, Iraq will get disarmed, unless they stop cooperating, in which case we'd attack them.

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Rochard

12clicks is right - This war never ended.

Has anyone forgotten what started this? Kuwait? Iraq walked in, killed tens of thousands, raped their women, looted their cites, and then set fire to their oil wells as they retreated while getting their asses kicked all the back to Iraq.

Bullshit. Kill them all.

__________________
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12clicks

wake up. They've never cooperated. They aren't now.

If your spineless and just wish there were no war, say so but stop pretending the US is wrong with the war or its timing.

__________________

Jay_StandAhead

I never said the US was wrong with the war.

They are wrong *IF* they go to war without the UN.

If the UN agrees to attack Iraq, I say every country should help and make this war as quick and effective as possible.

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jimboc

My only complaint is that we have waited too long already, Iraq has strung us along from 1 resolution to the next, the ONLY way to disarm him is by force and I think that he will have a bit of a shock when he gets it, because 10 years ago there were very few GPS weapons, now we have some amazing technology, it's 10 times better than in the 90's, he really won't know what's hit him and it will be over in weeks this time, job done, if we get it right.

J B

Thanks for answering my question

__________________

12clicks

I might as well hit this dopey rant as well.

Because the muslim world is hiding him if he's still alive. You know, those peaceful muslims.

you're right. That's what makes the protesters wrong. Look at the protests Einstien. They are ALL anti American/anti Bush/ anti war. Look at the banners and signs.
Those of you who are anti war or just stupid. Nothing wrong with that, who would the smart ones get over on if there were no dumb ones?

No, its more like we're doing the worlds job and no one supports us.

please show me a quote from the administation saying this. otherwise, shut the fuck up with your lies.

__________________

Sly_RJ

Saddam is sitting in his palaces laughing his ass off because a good chunk of the world is too blind with American hate to notice what he's doing. It's called stalling. He's obviously smart, he can do whatever he want because he knows the UN will stall any Iraqi attack and/or punish those who do decide to strike.

He gives up just enough information to please a few people and delay an attack. Then problems start. He reveals a little more information while under pressure. Again, attack is stalled.

It's a fucking game. And he's winning. He's giving up just enough pussy to please the softcore surfer, but not enough to please the hardcore surfer. Fuck softcore.

__________________
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12clicks

The UN does agree. If a vote were taken, it would overwhelmingly vote for war. Unfortunately, some people who are buying iraqi oil, have veto power.

__________________

jimboc

.They are wrong *IF* they go to war without the UN.

The UN has issued a number of resolutions since the early 90's,resolution 1441 say's that if Iraq does not account for a list of weapons thay admitted having years ago and hard them over for distruction or explain where they are they would be in breach

They have not - for hardly any of the weapons,

They are also in breach by having misiles that exceeed the prohibited range and flaunt the resolution in many ways

The resolution say's "grave concequences will follow of the reolution is not followed"


All members of the UN signed this, so to go against it now would be not following what was supposed to be the final resolution, it would make the UN a farce.


If the US / UK forcefully disarmed Iraq they would be following the resolution not breaking it as other countries propose

Sly_RJ

Has anyone seen or read <u>Sum of all Fears</u>?

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12clicks

wait until we start flexing our muscles.
the *people* of the US are tired of the fucking french, tired of the other obstructionists of europe. When the american people have had it with you, you're in trouble.

__________________

MetaformX

I disagree with you 12 Clits

__________________

jimboc

It's called stalling. He's obviously smart, he can do whatever he want because he knows the UN will stall

I think you are right, the UN will be divided, but I would be willing to bet good money on a US/UK attack by the end of March, It won't wash this time, both leaders are willing if neccessary to go against public opinion be strong, and sort the country out, give freedon and the democracy that we enjoy to them, in 10 years the people will be forever greatful.

tony286

How can you say that , what am I lying about lol. You know the tone of the nation, unless you live in a cave lol. I choose not blindly believe, I think so I need proof, I love my country and having a opinion that doesnt follow the herd is my right and makes my country great in case you forgot. Muslims are hiding bin laden so that means we give up on finding him and go on to the easy one lol.We know for a fact Bin Laden caused 9/11 his head on a platter should still be the main focus until its achieved. That will stop more terrorism because it shows fuck with us and we will hunt you down til the end of days. Also I always find it so amusing the most ball less people are the ones that talk toughest on the web lol.

12clicks

I'll lose sleep over it, I'm sure.

__________________

theking

A person with your lack of knowledge should not be posting unless you just enjoy displaying your ignorance and lack of insight.

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