Qbert

Start including CCBill on all DMCA notices for content on any file locker sites they do processing for. Bury them under DMCA notices.

nikki99

this is some serious shit, it is fixed yet?

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topnotch, standup guy

Come on, you're smarter than that. DMCA is a fucking joke and everybody knows it.

At best, sending a DMCA notice merely initiates yet another futile round of whac-a-mole. It's like pissing in the wind.

Even if you don't know this, CCBill sure as hell does.
.

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Konda

Lol, just lol.
How deep in someone's asshole can someone be.

garce

Visa is fully aware of what is going on and how their card is being used. Were you born yesterday? No, you weren't. It was the day before yesterday that you were born.

VISA knows EXACTLY what every company - and what every private citizen - is doing with their fancy little card. Every cent they process is accounted for. Every purchase you make is recorded. Its all in a database and readily available to anyone with a search warrant and a S.W.A.T. team. VISA has records of every single transaction ever made.

VISA KNOWS exactly what people are using their card for. Every. Single. Cent.

VISA is in the business of sucking every last penny out of everyone that they can get their hands on. You think they give a flying fuck about "morals", or what might be legal in one specific country?

VISA is bigger than the government of The United States of America. Deal with it. Yet VISA is a dead company walking. "Financial Institutions" (not American "financial insitutions") Real banks, from real countries. Banks that are based out of countries that aren't dying... Real banks are going to start excluding VISA and MASTERCARD from their options soon enough.

Why would any sane business agree to give to VISA 2 or 3 percent of their profits when they can issue their own debit cards and collect those fees themsleves?

VISA is dead. MasterCard is dead. It'll take awhile.

The crux of the biscuit is this: Not one institution will ever care who gets hurt.

TLDR

Captain Kawaii

Just follow Tom's instructions. End of story.

Theres always the whistleblowerproject, 60 minutes...and many more interested parties. I presume.

EukerVoorn

Sorry but I don't agree. Everybody knows what filelockers are being used for. So when a payment processor accepts a file locker, they know they'll be processing for CP and other illegal crap.

What is comes down to is that everybody can start making money from CP today and get away with just as long as they use the filelocker construction;

- Filelocker is registered on some fake name and address, for example Oron.com was registered on the address of a hotel in Luxembourg for years.

- The server is registered on a fake name and address as well. You can get a server at LeaseWeb instantly, you give them fake details, they won't double check it and they don't ask for a copy of your passport.

- Then the people uploading content to your server are anonymous as well. Someone uploading CP will probably use a VPN.

So there you are as a hosting provider, making millions from a filelocker like this, and you're untouchable because it's not your site and not your server.

The payment processor makes money from it as well, but is untouchable it's not their site and not their server.

At the same time nobody can take action against the site- or server owner because he's hiding behind a fake name and address. When the police jumps on it, all they can do is order the hosting provider to deactivate the server. Then the asshole behind it orders a new server under another fake name and starts all over again.

So where do you go next? To the next company that is involved and that isn't hiding behind a fake address, in this case CCBill and/or the hosting provider, I would say.

EVERYTHING about this filelocker construction is ILLEGAL. Then when people want to criticize the companies that are involved they have to follow the rules and procedures? How about CCBill following the procedures also known as the law? Production, distribution, storage and financing of CP is illegal and by processing payments, they provide with a means to finance it, so they're violating the law. They wouldn't if they really didn't know what these filelockers are being used for, but after today they do know.

Apart from all this there's a moral issue. If you were a hosting provider or payment processor, would you accept a filelocker as your client? I really hope that most of them don't. If that's correct, then the few ones who do accept them as a client, shouldn't cry when they get criticized for it. If you don't want to get fried for being involved with CP, just stay away from it as far as you can. CCBill couldn't do that because when they smelled the money and couldn't resist the greed. Some people just are like that, they' would pimp their own kids if it would pay well enough.

As we say in Holland; if you burn your ass you have to sit on the blisters.

AND I think you have a saying in the USA: if you can't do the job, don't do it.

AdultEUhost

hard to say, the previous reported file locked got suspended but was reinstated within 24 hours. So i guess it depends on what you see as "fixed"

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ASACP Tim

I would like to add some useful information to this thread.

1. If you happen across suspected cp please report this to ASACP.

Here is the link:

http://www.asacp.org/index.php?content=report

You can also report suspected cp to these hotlines:

NCMEC - http://www.missingkids.com
InHope - http://www.inhope.org
CyberTip - http://www.cybertip.ca

ASACP sends it's reports to the above hotlines as well as others... and directly to relevant LE contacts.

2. It is never a good idea to post threads that discuss suspected cp activity to open boards. This can have negative consequences and can even potentially impact an investigation that may already be in progress. The best course of action is to always report the suspected activity to ASACP and /or one or more of the hotlines above. Your report will be investigated and action will be taken if the report is valid.

3. When reporting suspected cp it is important to know what to do and what not to do in order to protect yourself from inadvertently breaking any laws.

- do not download / save content (images/video)
- do not transmit content
- do not re-visit a suspected site to make note of information missed when you first found it...even for the purpose of reporting.

Report the URL(s) along with any other information you notice.

Please see this PSA for more information...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vCf_tmcGR-Q

By taking the above steps you will ensure that your report(s) gets the most expedient attention by those that can act upon it and you will be protecting yourself from potential legal pitfalls.

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T34K1DD

Thanks for the info Tim

Radical Bucks

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bean-aid

Ah fuck it. Just deleted what I wrote. This is about ccbill doing the right thing, not sponsors trying to protect there biz and *possibly* doing the wrong thing by your standards

Major (Tom)

Sounds to me Timbo you have to have a pow wow with someone at ccbill.
ds

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2MuchMark

Not true. DMCA works for us every time. We had this loser who took our photos and used them to make banners for her own customers. She refused to stop using our content so I DMCA'ed her host. She moved to another hosting company (with whom she was cozy with the owner). That hosting company ignored our DMCA, but THEIR provider did not. We won, and that thief was forced to stop using our content. All it took was a little bit of effort on our part.

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2MuchMark

I've been in business for a very long time. I know the crews at CCBill, Segpay, Epoch, Asacp. I talk with lawyers, sued thieves and dmca'ed others. I've seen shit online and reported it. If you're not interesting in what I have to say then add me to your ignore list. Attacking CCBill for this is a mistake and if all you've learned from these threads is to call me an asshole then I feel sorry for you.

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astronaut x

is anyone from ibill in jail?

is anyone from globill in jail?

is anyone from epassporte in jail?

astronaut x

It shouldn't have to be that way though. And you know it.

I remember a few years ago when 2257 loomed over us all, and everybody bitched and complained about how that was going to put people out of business for all the extra paperwork.

Piracy and dmca's are extra paperwork x1000

Ya know Mark.... You are in the web video chat business. Good choice btw.
I myself wanted to get in on this business model back in 03.

However, your business model isn't as affected as a paysite/affiliate program business model is on these issues.

I thought I would just point that out to you and to everyone else when they weigh in these very biased opinions on the state of the industry and who and what is getting processed nowadays.

Konda

Trust me, I know who you are and I have respect for you and your company (and your stance on Mac vs PC), however I tink you are wrong in defending CCBILL in this situation. ESPECIALLY because you are a veteran in this industry.

I have processed with CCBILL for many years in the past (not small volume, we are talking a few 100,000US in processin per month) and I have partied with their crew at many shows back in the early 2000s.

However, what CCBILL is doing here is willingly processing for file-sharing sites. They have the right to do this. It is fully legal, they are protected by DMCA.

But it is still a stab in the back to the people that have been processing with CCBILL for 15 years and who are struggling because of piracy to see CCBILL processing for sites that are filled with pirated content. And CCBILL knows this, and all they say, business is business, if you have a problem just send a DMCA. By doing that they give a big fuck you to the industry that made them big.

In addition by processing for these file-sharing sites they take a risk of processing for illegal content. Everyone can upload whatever they want to these sites, and CCBILL is processing for it, so if someone decides to upload CP or bestiality (which is of course happening as we can see in the other threads) CCBILL is actively processing for this content. They know this, but do not seem to care.

bean-aid

Here is the issue Mark Prince... Conversions with ccbill have gone down. I noticed it april 2nd. Before it was always questionable the anomalies but on that date things went into the shitter. Now my situation was a bit unique, we were rapidly growing and on the verge of a 100 percent monthly increase when... Bam... It stopped. Traffic didn't stop, join form hits didn't stop, just the sales did.

Now, speed up to today. What again is your stance? Don't call out ccbill? Grab a set of balls and stand up for what's right. Mother fucking A calling out ccbill is the right thing to do. Now it is public by not just a few, but the masses.

And that other guy who posted where to send CP complaints, why don't you start with the problem? Not the honest people reporting the problem and *threatening* that saving any images or revisiting any pages showing such images is bullshit and I call you out.

Major (Tom)

someone needs to be nailed to the cross for this. CCBills (we are squeaky clean) pressense makes them become the whipping boy when shit like this happens--kind of like the homophobe anti-gay republican who gets caught with a cock in his mouth. And that's that folks. Word is born.
DS

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astronaut x

I actually saw this coming along time ago, when all these ex girlfriend sites came along. Non 2257 compliant sites being processed by CCBILL. I had some communication with them about it, and it was all swept under the rug, and that niche continued to explode.

Nobody saw a problem with it there.

And trust me, CCBill are reading these posts. I took a peek on who was looking at my gfy profile after making some criticisms about my signups dropping off.... and noticed James@ccbill checked out my profile. Which is fine, I don't really care. Im not trying to hide from anyone, even though this looks like a fake nic.

However my paysites still process through ccbill (LOL, fucking barely) the affiliate program is still with ccbill. I have been loyal to ccbill for it seems 15 years now (just a guess).

Ive watched this industry fall apart piece by fucking piece. Ive seen soo many people who have been revered and respected by many people, turn around and fuck those people in the ass. CCbill, imo was the last of the great unmolested institutions in this business.

Now, it looks like it may actually be time to close up shop and move on.

I refuse to be unethical, I refuse to fuck people over and lie to them.

I feel sorry for all the honest business people who gave everything they had and are now getting runover by crooks and thieves.

I went to the playboy mansion to a webmaster access show years ago, and adult friend finder was a sponsor. Lars was wearing a big white fur coat and driving a flat black old convertible, in truly pimpin style.

It was a sign of the times for me. At that moment, I started to see the unity and integrity of the business unravel.

Not that there wasn't always fucking weasels and trolls out there. But, this was a sign that unethical bullshit was finally accepted.

astronaut x

It seems to me this was around this same time you speak of that they started getting into this market and starting warming up to the idea of accepting file lockers.

bean-aid

There is a time when enough is enough. Thaty time has come and the writing is clearly on the wall.

At: ASACP TIM. When I said I call you out, I mean, I don't think you actually work for that organization. I would like to see your credentials because nobody representing a company with that stance would tell people to never save evidence, nor check evidence again. Your words really disturbed me if, in fact, you work with a legit company trying to protect kids.

astronaut x

I always know how to shut down a thread....

Or maybe get you asshats to start thinking....

Or maybe you pussies just end up falling asleep with dreams of grandeur of how your precious little business model will still be intact when you wake up. While you sleep in idle, doing nothing for the better of the industry and ultimately, for the better of your own personal financial stability.

That is of course if your not into running illegal tube sites, file sharing, or file lockers.

sleep tight. nighty fucking night.

baddog

never mind

alf6300

Mark, Tim,
I hope I don't sound patronizing, it's not my intention. BUT.

There is the "letter" of the law, which by its nature has gray areas.
And then there is common sense ("spirit of the law").

Goals and circumstances have weight in law.
Fighting to gain control of an aircraft, is a very wrong and very unlawful thing to do for a passenger.
But if you invoke "literal law" on Flight 93, you are a moron or worse.

Most jurisdictions, especially "common law" ones (such as the U.S.), acknowledge the limits of the "literal law". Ample latitude is given by the law itself to common sense - which is a good thing when done with balance.

(Here's some examples. Judges shape the interpretation of the law in the real world; jurors add a human point of view to dry law texts; an elected sheriff won't be re-elected if she ignores common sense. Etc. Etc.)

So I'm very suspicious when someone invokes the literal law against the spirit of the law. More often than not, the "tied hands" approach is a self-serving approach - even when you have a room of nodding lawyers on your side.


Most people on this board are genuinely trying to do the obviously right thing - I.e., help cleaning up the industry from occasional scumbags who effectively deal with CP.

If one knowingly gets (a lot of) money from sites that sell CP, one becomes direct accomplice in CP. There's no way around it. (Incidentally, one also seriously jeopardizes the clean side of the industry).

That's true even if you have a long disclaimer in your TOS, and if you setup your corporate structure right, and if you pretend that you "didn't know it".

Such defense, in most cases recently discussed on this board, crumbles under the scrutiny of common sense.
And we all know this if we are honest. By the way, jurors in a court case would know it too, very well.


I believe ASACP's statutory goal is to fight CP. The discussions on this board are helping this fight, by showing some dirt that was too long left under the carpet.

I still want to believe it is not your intention, but the tone of your posts sounds a lot as a "Please shut up" and "You are risking your own ass if you report such stuff".

I honestly don't read a prevalent concern for the abused kids, in your language - which is what I would instead expect from ASACP.


Finally, the timing of this reaction also gives the really bad impression of a concerted PR offensive.

This really bad impression of a PR offensive, is reinforced by the official financial ties that CCbill has with ASACP, according to the joint press releases on ASACP's website.

Sorry for the long post, and I'm sure you can help clarify your true intentions for the benefit of everybody.

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NewNick

QFT +1

Mark Prince, your rep is now less than zero as far as I am concerned.

If I got involved in CP even in the slightest way I would expect to be shunned by every right thinking person. I would also expect to be arrested, put into prison, and placed on a sex offenders register.

There used to be a time when even the merest hint of this subject was so taboo that actually mentioning it on a board was an instant ban. If you even illuded to the fact that your site might have something even slightly suspicious your CCbill account would be pulled and your name and reputaion blacklisted.

CCbill have destroyed their reputation. Mark Prince has gone down with them.

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Theo

I asked from Tim to make a post about the reporting of possible illegal content. Downloading, sharing and revisiting is a big no regardless your intentions. His post meant to serve as protection for any innocent webmaster that by thinking he is trying to help, he may put himself in trouble.

astronaut x

I think if Mark would change his course of thinking, he can be saved.

But you have to consider his business model.

Live Web Chat.

That might work well in his case.

But to a site that takes pictures and video and offers them for download, then gets their entire sites ripped and offered for free on file lockers, along with who knows what the fuck else, without permission, that is a sting, and live web chat advertisements and dating sites riddled with fake profiles like cockroaches doesn't help the situation.

Phoenix

im going to take a few days off...when i come back i hope to see this all cleared up.

My buddy i drink with here is some kind of secret police, he never gets to tell us what he is working on. Im going to show him the screen caps and the proof that is known. See what he says.

Has anyone actually shown the proof to a law enforcement agency? FBI?
Does VISA know??

I bet not one person has sent them anything.

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AdultEUhost

Thanks for that info, certainly helpful !
But wouldn't you agree that once such content is reported to CCBill they should take action immediately and stop facilitating them monetizing on such content?

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tony286

Well said and its all very sad.

Brad Mitchell

Hi Tim,

Thank you for sharing this information on how to properly limit one's risk while reporting such activity. Let's catch up soon, buddy.

Brad

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signupdamnit

I also noticed that they joined the ASACP in April 2012. It was around this same time that CCBill apparently opened the flood gates on processing for these file locker sites.

Is the ASACP now becoming nothing more than a public relations tool which some companies use in order to deflect criticism for knowingly having associations with people who are involved in the distribution of child porn? It's public knowledge that child pornographers often use these sites because the content often isn't policed and it allows for quick distribution with a minimum paper trail.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/chil...ervers-4902158

If the ASACP wants to protect kids (as opposed to being used as a PR tool) they ought to be demanding that CCBill either stop processing for these sites or at the least they screen for child pornography much better than they are now. You wouldn't think this would even need to be said.

sperbonzo

Actually Beaner, what he is saying about not saving evidence, and not going to the link more than once, is to protect YOU.

I work with a child abuse agency (http://www.onechildinternational.net/) and we get plenty of pedo's locked up for cp on their hard drives and multiple hits on their browsers, and they almost always claim that they were just "doing research" about cp online. His words were actually good legal advise, probably straight from the US Attorneys office.




.

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L-Pink

The Pete Townshend defense.

.

ClaireMonroe

Wow. While friends of mine are getting bitch slapped by places like clips4sale for putting words like cock and I think slave on their listings ccbill is ignoring this? Ewww gross

EpicPanda

CCBill stopped processing for filelockers, friend. All of them. Weird bump. My team of programmers has not been able to replicate the circumstance that caused this sudden bump.

__________________

ClaireMonroe

Nah I just accidentally went too far down on the list while reading. But it's true about sites not using certain words. I suppose that should be a new thread. My apologies.