Required Tax Documentation email from AFF? - GoFuckYourself.com

CampHost · 06-01-2012, 08:54 PM

Hey,

Anyone else get this email today from AFF requesting tax information? I've been a affiliate for years and my tax info hasn't changed? What's up?

Thanks

Vjo · 06-01-2012, 09:05 PM

Fear not. Unless you are outside the US. I called them today and it is only for those outside the US. For some reason they sent it to all affils.

As long as your's says "Tax Info: Yes ( Approved )" (and you are in the US) you should be good to go still and DONT need to return another W9 is what the girl said.

Slick · 06-01-2012, 09:08 PM

I got the same thing here. Thanks Vjo for clearing that up.

CampHost · 06-01-2012, 09:08 PM

Thanks for the reply. I am in the US but not sure what you mean by "Yes: Approved". I didn't see that in the email?

Thanks

Vjo · 06-01-2012, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampHost

Thanks for the reply. I am in the US but not sure what you mean by "Yes: Approved". I didn't see that in the email?

Thanks

That is in the members area of AFF:

"Find out how much of your traffic is coming from mobile devices: View Mobile Stats.

This account has a special sent payment type: manual
Tax Info: Yes ( Approved )

Payments :"

CampHost · 06-01-2012, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vjo

That is in the members area of AFF:

"Find out how much of your traffic is coming from mobile devices: View Mobile Stats.

This account has a special sent payment type: manual
Tax Info: Yes ( Approved )

Payments :"

Wow... Too much booze tonight for me I guess... Thanks so much Vjo for clearing that up!

shake · 06-01-2012, 09:49 PM

I got this too, but I'm in Canada so I'll probably have to send something in.

loopardo · 06-01-2012, 09:57 PM

how this work exactly?

should AFF actually care about/need my tax information if I'am from another country?

?!

Vjo · 06-01-2012, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopardo

how this work exactly?

should AFF actually care about/need my tax information if I'am from another country?

?!

Yeah that came to my mind as well. Every country is diff. Certainly you dont use a W9. Never heard of this but then I am not outside the US so no real experience if you guys have to (or ever had to) report tax info.

Maybe someone from AFF will clear it up here.

mikeworks · 06-02-2012, 02:27 AM

-------------------------
Section 9 of Medley Affiliate Network Agreement (http://medley.com/medley_affiliate_network_agreement) requires that you submit certain Required Tax Documentation within 60 days of the establishment of your affiliate account. To date, you have provided us with either inaccurate or no tax documentation.

Please kindly complete and return the required tax form (http://friendfinder.com/go/page/affiliate_forms_w8) to us at [email protected] or by faxing it to (408) 745-5678, Attention: ?Affiliate team, tax ID information? no later than Friday, June 15, 2012. Please include your Gpid and the required tax id on the correspondence. Your failure to provide this form will result in your suspension from our affiliate program.

If you have any questions, please contact your affiliate manager. Thank you for your prompt response.

Sincerely,
Medley Affiliate Team
1-800-388-0760 (toll free)
-----------------------------

By providing this information any government official will be able to search google for your gpid finding all your adult websites. If your business is 'online marketing' because you don't like/want your name/business associated with adult then the ONLY solution is to stop promoting aff.

I personally would rather stop promoting aff than complete this form. My rep has told me auditors are insistent upon this. If this situation does not change I will be removing all aff adverts next week and I have been an affiliate since 2003.

Oracle Porn · 06-02-2012, 02:48 AM

If you are not a US citizen/company etc and do not own any property in the US and have no employees in the US, you must not file a w8ben form. If you do, then you're making a false statement.

pretty simple. not sure why they ask for it.

Sunny Day · 06-02-2012, 03:22 AM

Due to changes in the US tax law, all businesses are required to issue 1099's to every business or individual the pay more than $600 in a year. Whether or not a W9 or W8 is on file.

W8 Instructions

"Purpose of form. Foreign persons are subject to U.S.tax at a 30% rate on income they receive from U.S.
sources that consists of:
Interest (including certain original issue discount (OID). Dividends; Rents; Premiums; Annuities;
Compensation for, or in expectation of, services performed; connected with the conduct of a trade or business in the
Substitute payments in a securities lending transaction; Other fixed or determinable annual or periodical gains, profits, or income."

The key sentence is "Compensation for, or in expectation of, services performed;"
You as an affiliate are expecting compensation for a service performed.

The US business is paying you money. To prove they paid out the money they must receive a W9 from any US based company or individual or a W8 from a foreign based company or individual. If they don't have this document on file, they are required to withhold 30% of the money due you. Companies don't want to fuck with the hassles of withholding. So they put in a policy, no W9 or W8, no payment.

You don't want to get paid, then don't fill out the form.

The statement
"If you are not a US citizen/company etc and do not own any property in the US and have no employees in the US, you must not file a w8ben form. If you do, then you're making a false statement."
IS TOTALLY INCORRECT
The fact that a US corporation is paying you, makes it US income, unless you fill out a W8 to prove you are not a US corporation or citizen.

You fill out the W8, the IRS won't tax you. However, they will report that money to the country you are in, if they have a tax treaty.

u-Bob · 06-02-2012, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunny Day

Due to changes in the US tax law, all businesses are required to issue 1099's to every business or individual the pay more than $600 in a year. Whether or not a W9 or W8 is on file.

W8 Instructions

"Purpose of form. Foreign persons are subject to U.S.tax at a 30% rate on income they receive from U.S.
sources that consists of:
Interest (including certain original issue discount (OID). Dividends; Rents; Premiums; Annuities;
Compensation for, or in expectation of, services performed; connected with the conduct of a trade or business in the
Substitute payments in a securities lending transaction; Other fixed or determinable annual or periodical gains, profits, or income."

The key sentence is "Compensation for, or in expectation of, services performed;"
You as an affiliate are expecting compensation for a service performed.

The US business is paying you money. To prove they paid out the money they must receive a W9 from any US based company or individual or a W8 from a foreign based company or individual. If they don't have this document on file, they are required to withhold 30% of the money due you. Companies don't want to fuck with the hassles of withholding. So they put in a policy, no W9 or W8, no payment.

You don't want to get paid, then don't fill out the form.

The statement
"If you are not a US citizen/company etc and do not own any property in the US and have no employees in the US, you must not file a w8ben form. If you do, then you're making a false statement."
IS TOTALLY INCORRECT
The fact that a US corporation is paying you, makes it US income, unless you fill out a W8 to prove you are not a US corporation or citizen.

You fill out the W8, the IRS won't tax you. However, they will report that money to the country you are in, if they have a tax treaty.

Incorrect.

see https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18982212&postcount=49
and https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18982216&postcount=50

btw: filling out a w8 form does not as you say prove you are not a US corporation or citizen.

By filling out a w8ben form you state that you are not a US person, but do have US based activities. W8ce is for US expatriates. W8eci is for for example foreign companies that have a branch in the US. etc.

Here's a company that gets it right:
https://www.google.com/adsense/taxinfo

Quote:

Publishers will fall into one of three main tax categories:

*U.S. Business: The payee is based in, and pays taxes in, the U.S.
*Non U.S. Business (No U.S. Activities): The payee's operations related to participation in AdSense are based entirely outside of the U.S., and payee does not pay taxes in the U.S.
*Non U.S. Business with U.S. Activities: The payee is based outside of the U.S., but has equipment or employees in the U.S. that are involved with payee's participation in AdSense.

Quote:

Non U.S. Business (No U.S. Activities )

United States (U.S.) Activities involve having employees or owning equipment in the U.S. that are involved in any way with revenue earned through the AdSense program. This includes, but is not limited to, owning a web server or owning a hosting service in the U.S., or having employees in the U.S. who are involved in either:

setting up a web server, hosting service, or website
developing content for your website
marketing to create a user base for your site
telephone support for your site
buying products for your site
maintaining your site

Generally, utilizing an unrelated third-party U.S. web hosting service to host your web pages, renting web servers that are located in the U.S. from an unrelated third party, or having your payment sent to a U.S. Post Office Box or mail forwarding address, do not of themselves constitute U.S. Activities.

If you do not have U.S. Activities, please visit the Tax Information page under your My Account tab where you will agree to a statement to that effect. No tax forms are required in this instance.

Sunny Day · 06-02-2012, 06:51 AM

If I'm XYZ Porn Inc., incorporated in Los Angeles and your one of my affiliates based in the Netherlands, it doesn't matter to the IRS where any servers are based or where the final buyers of the porn are living.

ALL that matters is I'm incorporated in California and have a home office in L.A.

By that I'm required to get a W9 or W8 from anybody I pay except some homeless guy I paid $20 to sweep the driveway. And if he does it more that $600 worth of driveway then he too will have to fill out a W9.

Otherwise the IRS assumes I put that money in my own pocket and will tax me.

The IRS used to only require 1099s for when businesses didn't have a W9 on file or payments to individuals. Now they require 1099 for any person/corporation receiving over $600. Same with W8 & W9. They require for anyone you pay.

I was an accountant in the Tax Department of a Fortune 750 corporation for over 5 years.

You can argue forever, but unless you sign a W8, you're not going to get paid.

u-Bob · 06-02-2012, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunny Day

By that I'm required to get a W9 or W8 from anybody I pay except some homeless guy I paid $20 to sweep the driveway.

Quote:

Same with W8 & W9. They require for anyone you pay.

Incorrect. Check the IRS's own website. Yes, you need to document who you pay, but that does not mean you need a w9 or w8 form. This whole discussion is about the fact that in some cases w8 forms do not apply and cannot be used for foreign affiliates. The IRS acknowledges that alternative certificates can be used. Every major mainstream network knows this.

I get it, this is GFY. People would rather stubbornly argue than go back and check the facts

Quote:

You can argue forever, but unless you sign a W8, you're not going to get paid.

That means if you buy let's say hardlinks, you refuse to pay unless you receive w8? Or when you buy hosting from a French company, you refuse to pay your bills unless they send you a w8? Good luck.

AmeliaG · 06-02-2012, 08:10 AM

I got that email and I emailed back to ask if they misplaced the existing W-9, as my info has not changed. Haven't heard back. I'm not seeing the tax info field in my admin, but I admit I don't really promote AFF, so I'm not exactly an expert on using their admin.

Sunny Day · 06-02-2012, 08:15 AM

I'm saying that the IRS is going to demand a W8 or W9 from everybody I pay. You might occasionally get an auditor to accept an alternate letter, but agents work on a quota system to bring in as money as fast as possible.
A foreign entity without a W8 is a huge red flag. The agent will assume the US corp. is funneling money offshore illegally. This means the US corp. and all owners of the US corp. will get full tax audits.
Their choice, a W8 from you, not do business with you or a full audit. Which do you think they will take. At best the IRS agent will demand the US corp. withhold 30% of your payments.
The IRS isn't stupid. These alternate letters are an attempt to avoid taxes in your home country. That's why they have tax treaties. To share information.

u-Bob · 06-02-2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunny Day

I'm saying that the IRS is going to demand a W8 or W9 from everybody I pay. You might occasionally get an auditor to accept an alternate letter, but agents work on a quota system to bring in as money as fast as possible.
A foreign entity without a W8 is a huge red flag. The agent will assume the US corp. is funneling money offshore illegally. This means the US corp. and all owners of the US corp. will get full tax audits.
Their choice, a W8 from you, not do business with you or a full audit. Which do you think they will take. At best the IRS agent will demand the US corp. withhold 30% of your payments.
The IRS isn't stupid.

I understand you want to be careful. And if you own an affiliate program and put in your TOS that all foreign affiliate have to send in their birth certificate, a picture of them holding 12 bananas, a DNA sample, a blood test and a w8 form, then that is your right. Your program, you decide who can join and who can't.

However, if you run an affiliate program and don't have those things in your TOS and after the affiliate has done the work and sent you sales, you refuse to pay him unless he sends in a w8 (as you implied in one of your previous posts) then that would be ripping people off. Even in cases where the w8 forms apply to an affiliate and he doesn't send one in, you still do not have the right to pocket all of his earnings. In that case you withhold 30%, not 100%.

Quote:

These alternate letters are an attempt to avoid taxes in your home country.

That is a serious accusation. Even though I hate taxes, I pay them because I understand the government can make your life hell if you don't. That's why I make sure I have all my docs in order and I make sure I don't make or sign any false statements. By signing a w8ben form I would effectively be stating that I had "US activities" which is not the case.

As always in business, you weigh the risks vs the rewards. It makes sense for a US based affiliate program to document as much as possible. I can fully understand why some programs would demand certain forms. I only hope they realize that they are leaving money on the table when they only accept certain types of documents and refuse other perfectly legal documents because of a misconception. Again, of course it's their decision.
I hope you realize that if an EU based affiliate supplies perfectly legal docs but refuses to sign certain other forms, it's not because he's being an asshole, but because he himself is also looking out for his business.

Ultimately, I'm here to make money. I know people would argue the opposite based on the amount of time I've spent discussing this subject on GFY, but I don't have an unlimited amount of time.

At the end of the day if I have to choose between promoting a small adult program that requires w8 forms that don't apply to my situation or a company that does handle things correctly such as Google, Amazon, Shareasale etc, I know which one to choose.

Sunny Day · 06-02-2012, 11:04 AM

I didn't want to imply YOU were avoiding taxes, but there are some here who would be doing that. Sorry for any misconception.

I used to spend several hours a week dealing with W9s, for groups claiming sales tax exemption from purchases they made with the company I worked for. No W9, no state sales tax exemption certificate for a charitable organization, NO SALES TAX REFUND.

As for TOS, sponsors need to update their TOS and need to explain the shift in IRS policy. Many sponsors sent W9s to foreign based affiliates, as Suzy Bookkeeper didn't know better. She didn't know what a W9 was until told to send them out. She has no clue what a W8 is.

As for keeping affiliates money that is wrong. But the IRS has made it clear, no W8, then you have to withhold and send to the IRS 30%. The affiliate can then file the proper tax forms at the end of the year and ask for the money back. After proof they are a foreign entity, the IRS is required to refund the foreign entity the 30%. If the sponsor keeps the 30% and does not forward the money to the IRS there are sever penalties. Same has US employer withholding. Don't send that to the IRS and they will seize not only the business but all personal assets of the owners. Sometimes they even go after the bookkeepers as "they knew what was going on."

But the question is, do you really want to go to that hassle and possible fines for not filing a W8?

There's idiots in this country who fill out W4s to reflect they will owe zero taxes or have 25 dependents so they will owe no taxes so their withholding on their paycheck is zero. IRS is wise and has a special penalty for that.

mikeworks · 06-03-2012, 03:50 AM

It seems every 18 months or so AFF send an email asking you to do xyz or your account will be suspended. I am sure they hope webmasters miss the email completely. It means more cash for them.

As u-Bob pointed out Google are not requiring this, so why are AFF?

TheSwed · 06-03-2012, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeworks

It seems every 18 months or so AFF send an email asking you to do xyz or your account will be suspended. I am sure they hope webmasters miss the email completely. It means more cash for them.

As u-Bob pointed out Google are not requiring this, so why are AFF?

Exactly that happens to me and I had to register a new account so my revshare was gone.

pocketkangaroo · 06-03-2012, 05:24 AM

Got the same e-mail here. Even asked for a scanned copy of my drivers license last year. This is even after sending them a 1099 and pointing them to the Secretary of State site pointing out where we are registered as a business.

And we don't have shady traffic or anything. Been an affiliate of theirs for like 7 years. Don't understand it why this needs to be an annual process.

Alex69 · 06-04-2012, 02:41 AM

are they stupid? the will not take document without tax id. some countries do not have tax ids...

Oracle Porn · 06-04-2012, 02:51 AM

Might be an error and we are all getting our panties in a bunch.

This is from AFF's site:

Quote:

Non U.S. Business (No U.S. Activities )

United States (U.S.) Activities involve having employees or owning equipment in the U.S. that are involved in any way with revenue earned through the Affiliate Program. This includes, but is not limited to, owning a web server or owning a hosting service in the U.S., or having employees in the U.S. who are involved in either:

setting up a web server, hosting service, or website
developing content for your website
marketing to create a user base for your site
telephone support for your site
buying products for your site
maintaining your site

Generally, utilizing an unrelated third-party U.S. web hosting service to host your web pages, renting web servers that are located in the U.S. from an unrelated third party, or having your payment sent to a U.S. Post Office Box or mail forwarding address, do not of themselves constitute U.S. Activities.

If you do not have U.S. Activities, please visit the Tax Information page under your My Account tab where you will agree to a statement to that effect. No tax forms are required in this instance.

u-Bob · 06-04-2012, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oracle Porn

Might be an error and we are all getting our panties in a bunch.

This is from AFF's site:

Yep, looks like AFF is getting it right (just like google and Amazon).

From the Dutch AFF site:

Quote:

De belastinginformatie die u in dient te sturen betreft ofwel een Amerikaans belastingformulier of een verklaring van Geen Activiteiten binnen de V.S., afhankelijk van welke op u van toepassing is.

translation:
The tax documents you need to supply are either a US tax form or a statement of "No US Activities", depending on your situation.

and from the English site:

Quote:

International affiliates need to submit Internal Revenue Service form W-8 and/or Form 8233, or certify that they do not have a US presence.

smutnut · 06-04-2012, 06:40 AM

I got one and sent it in even though I'm in US, but glad to hear it doesn't matter

digitalfantasies · 06-04-2012, 07:51 AM

who's got an AFF rep icq for me?

tobe87 · 06-04-2012, 08:37 AM

Here is the ICQ for FFN affiliates 215446267, or you can hit me up.

Alex69 · 06-04-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobe87

Here is the ICQ for FFN affiliates 215446267, or you can hit me up.

Why can't your accounting department understand that not all countries have tax ids for their residents?

signupdamnit · 06-04-2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobe87

Here is the ICQ for FFN affiliates 215446267, or you can hit me up.

I'll hit you up if you don't answer here but for the benefit of the hundreds of other affiliates reading this on here if I am a US citizen in the US and in the stats it shows "Tax Info: Yes (N/A)" and received one of these messages by email do I still need to send the info to you or is it a mistake? The info hasn't changed from four or five years ago when I provided it electronically. Thanks.

AmeliaG · 06-04-2012, 03:29 PM

One of their affiliate reps just wasted a half hour of my time on ICQ to impart only that, yes, they do have my tax info on file but why don't I promote them more.

Apparently, she felt sending affiliates an erroneous tax info request was an awesome way to open a dialog on how to get more traffic . . . well, not really a dialog, as it was mostly just her saying I should promote AFF.

tobe87 · 06-04-2012, 03:48 PM

If the information for your W-9 is current, no action is required.

mikeworks · 06-04-2012, 03:48 PM

AFF should do the decent thing, change the default setting for affiliates to 'No US Activities'. It is a big waste of time for the vast majority of foreign webmasters who have 'No US Activities' to have to login and check a box.

Also send out another bulk email explaining your new found common sense on the matter, it would be appreciated.

Aka_Bluey · 06-04-2012, 11:16 PM

Up for the afternoon crew...

.

cordoba · 06-05-2012, 06:18 AM

I'm in the UK and had the same message. I don't see any place in my account details to make a statement that I do not have US activities, only to select non us business, which I already had.

What is your business tax classification?
(USA only):
Which tax category should your business be in?: Non U.S. Business

cordoba · 06-05-2012, 06:19 AM

Filling in the form is actually quite easy : http://www.metacafe.com/watch/338741...l_form_w_8ben/

selena · 06-05-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeworks

-------------------------
Section 9 of Medley Affiliate Network Agreement (http://medley.com/medley_affiliate_network_agreement) requires that you submit certain Required Tax Documentation within 60 days of the establishment of your affiliate account. To date, you have provided us with either inaccurate or no tax documentation.

Please kindly complete and return the required tax form (http://friendfinder.com/go/page/affiliate_forms_w8) to us at [email protected] or by faxing it to (408) 745-5678, Attention: “Affiliate team, tax ID information” no later than Friday, June 15, 2012. Please include your Gpid and the required tax id on the correspondence. Your failure to provide this form will result in your suspension from our affiliate program.

If you have any questions, please contact your affiliate manager. Thank you for your prompt response.

Sincerely,
Medley Affiliate Team
1-800-388-0760 (toll free)
-----------------------------

By providing this information any government official will be able to search google for your gpid finding all your adult websites. If your business is 'online marketing' because you don't like/want your name/business associated with adult then the ONLY solution is to stop promoting aff.

I personally would rather stop promoting aff than complete this form. My rep has told me auditors are insistent upon this. If this situation does not change I will be removing all aff adverts next week and I have been an affiliate since 2003.

They don't give the actual document to the government. No one besides AFF is going to know what your Gpid is. They need it to associate you with your account. That is all.

They are required by law to have that form on file, as they have to report any payments that exceed $600 in a calendar year.

But when they do report the payments, it is done via a 1099. *That* is the information that the government sees.

That is if you are a US citizen. I don't know or care what they need for non-US webmasters. But whatever it is, I very seriously doubt that they transmit information that contains your affiliate id.

mikeworks · 06-07-2012, 02:40 AM

AFF have all the information already. That form is a US Treasury form, not internal to AFF from my understanding.

Aka_Bluey · 06-07-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobe87

Here is the ICQ for FFN affiliates 215446267, or you can hit me up.

I added you on ICQ and sent you a message 2 days ago, without a reply yet, i see you are online, have you had a chance to read my ICQ message yet?

I have also sent my aff account rep an email without reply yet as well, also on this topic.

tobe87 · 06-07-2012, 04:28 PM

AKA_Bluey I'm on ICQ most of the day and I always respond if I see a message. Please email me [email protected].

Thanks!

Aka_Bluey · 06-07-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobe87

AKA_Bluey I'm on ICQ most of the day and I always respond if I see a message. Please email me [email protected].

Thanks!

Email sent.

Aka_Bluey · 06-07-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobe87

AKA_Bluey I'm on ICQ most of the day and I always respond if I see a message. Please email me [email protected].

Thanks!

Thank you for your very fast reply via email.

Yes i agree with you, ICQ of late, is not best IM software.

garce · 06-07-2012, 06:30 PM

I'm outside the U.S, and I'm going to let them close my 10 year year old account and keep the couple hundred bucks a year I make off them - mainly because I don't have a clue what my Mexican rep is asking me to do. Enjoy the happy meals you fucking thieves!

Fuck that shit.

I only wish "Reuben" spoke better English instead of the nonesense, garbled crap emails he sends me.

1) Most "Foreign" webmasters do not understand pig-English. A Reuben is a sandwich. Sandwiches don't speak English. Either does your Reuben.
2) Get an actual English speaking rep to contact your "north of Mexico" affiliates.
3) Pay me for all sales up until June 15, 2012 (HAHAHAROFL!)
4) I will continue to claim the average income I've earned from you over the past decade on my taxes whether you pay me or not.
5) Don't ever have a Spanish native contact your foriegn webmasters. WTF? Nobody speaks English - or even Engrish - at Cams/Aff/BOFT?

Another plan: Steal my money (because that's what desperate, dying businesses do) and buy yourself a Happy Meal. Or a six pack. Enjoy. Fuck off. Learn English. Continue to fail.

Just Alex · 06-07-2012, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garce

5) Don't ever have a Spanish native contact your foriegn webmasters.

I wonder if Mexican rep's spelling is better than "foriegn" webmasters' .

AmeliaG · 06-07-2012, 08:55 PM

I see FFN has still not given a straight response on who needs to fill out the form. They are neither confirming nor denying that they lost my paperwork, even though they insisted on a copy of my drivers license and Social Security card, which I am not thrilled to have floating around. Here is what they sent me today:

"Dear Amelia,

Unfortunately, we are required to have this w-9 tax form on file for every affiliate we have updated annually per the ?IRS?. This is true because our company has went public and we are paying you US income. Please update the form as per the prior email request and email back to us so we can update your account as soon as possible. Thank you so much! "

Anyone know the link to the page on the IRS web site where it says all public companies need to get a new W-9 every year?

AmeliaG · 06-08-2012, 10:28 PM

Anyone who is not me get an accurate straight answer out of FFN on this latest debacle?

Anyone get what FFN is trying to do here?

selena · 06-08-2012, 10:39 PM

They sent me an email saying that while they had gotten my form, I had not included my tax id number. I thought it was possible that I missed it, so I went to look at the attachment.

It was clearly typed right on the form, so I sent it right back to them.

mikeworks · 06-09-2012, 02:43 AM

I am sorry to hear you feel this way about this request. I have included your affiliate manager so that you two can discuss further details. This is just a requirement that our company has to follow because we went public recently. It has been placed upon us by the IRS for all of our affiliate accounts that we pay out US funds too. I understand if you are uncomfortable doing so, just keep in mind that on 6/18 your account will be placed on hold. Thank you for your quick reply and Good day!

fax or email us at 408-745-5678 or [email protected]

http://www.atsu.edu/employeeforms/pdfs/W-8_forms.pdf

Sincerely,
Felicia Riger
Various, Inc.
a FriendFinder Networks Inc. company
220 Humboldt Court
Sunnyvale, Ca 94089

I emailed back this:

If you read this thread: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1070090 you will see that other public listed companies such as google/amazon do not require this information.

Here is google stating this on their tax information page:

https://www.google.com/adsense/taxinfo

Non U.S. Business (No U.S. Activities )

United States (U.S.) Activities involve having employees or owning equipment in the U.S. that are involved in any way with revenue earned through the AdSense program. This includes, but is not limited to, owning a web server or owning a hosting service in the U.S., or having employees in the U.S. who are involved in either:

setting up a web server, hosting service, or website
developing content for your website
marketing to create a user base for your site
telephone support for your site
buying products for your site
maintaining your site
Generally, utilizing an unrelated third-party U.S. web hosting service to host your web pages, renting web servers that are located in the U.S. from an unrelated third party, or having your payment sent to a U.S. Post Office Box or mail forwarding address, do not of themselves constitute U.S. Activities.

If you do not have U.S. Activities, please visit the Tax Information page under your My Account tab where you will agree to a statement to that effect. No tax forms are required in this instance.

----

So why is AFF requesting this information? I have no U.S. Activities. I am pretty sure the multi billion dollar company google would not get this wrong, they can hire the very best lawyers.

So please look into this again, otherwise you will be losing a loyal affiliate dating back to 2003.

Best regards

u-Bob · 06-09-2012, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeworks

If you read this thread: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1070090 you will see that other public listed companies such as google/amazon do not require this information.

To be more exact: Those companies do require that information, but they do understand what the forms are for. W9 is for US entities, W8ben is for foreign entities with US Activities. There's no standard form for foreign entities that have no US Activities. In the case of a foreign affiliate that has no US Activities, the affiliate program can collect that information in another way. Google allows those affiliates/publishers to click an "i certify" button. Shareasale requires those affiliates to sign and scan a statement they drafted. etc.

AmeliaG · 06-09-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeworks

I am sorry to hear you feel this way about this request. I have included your affiliate manager so that you two can discuss further details. This is just a requirement that our company has to follow because we went public recently. It has been placed upon us by the IRS for all of our affiliate accounts that we pay out US funds too. I understand if you are uncomfortable doing so, just keep in mind that on 6/18 your account will be placed on hold. Thank you for your quick reply and Good day!

fax or email us at 408-745-5678 or [email protected]

http://www.atsu.edu/employeeforms/pdfs/W-8_forms.pdf

Sincerely,
Felicia Riger
Various, Inc.
a FriendFinder Networks Inc. company
220 Humboldt Court
Sunnyvale, Ca 94089

I emailed back this:

If you read this thread: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1070090 you will see that other public listed companies such as google/amazon do not require this information.

Here is google stating this on their tax information page:

https://www.google.com/adsense/taxinfo

Non U.S. Business (No U.S. Activities )

United States (U.S.) Activities involve having employees or owning equipment in the U.S. that are involved in any way with revenue earned through the AdSense program. This includes, but is not limited to, owning a web server or owning a hosting service in the U.S., or having employees in the U.S. who are involved in either:

setting up a web server, hosting service, or website
developing content for your website
marketing to create a user base for your site
telephone support for your site
buying products for your site
maintaining your site
Generally, utilizing an unrelated third-party U.S. web hosting service to host your web pages, renting web servers that are located in the U.S. from an unrelated third party, or having your payment sent to a U.S. Post Office Box or mail forwarding address, do not of themselves constitute U.S. Activities.

If you do not have U.S. Activities, please visit the Tax Information page under your My Account tab where you will agree to a statement to that effect. No tax forms are required in this instance.

----

So why is AFF requesting this information? I have no U.S. Activities. I am pretty sure the multi billion dollar company google would not get this wrong, they can hire the very best lawyers.

So please look into this again, otherwise you will be losing a loyal affiliate dating back to 2003.

Best regards

You provided Google's link here for why non-US webmasters do not have to provide info, without providing any documentation for your own bizarre assertions.

Please post a link to where on the IRS site it mentions the regulation which says that public companies have to get a new W-9 every year.

Please advise what FFN has done with my previously supplied sensitive personal data. Did FFN lose their copy of my tax paperwork? Did FFN lose their copy of my drivers license? Did FFN lose their copy of my Social Security card?

Please explain why yesterday you bizarrely started asking me for a W-8. If your answer contains personal data, please explain this via email as previously requested.

There is no reason FFN has to go around and around on this.

06-01-2012, 08:54 PM	#1
CampHost Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 250	Required Tax Documentation email from AFF? Hey, Anyone else get this email today from AFF requesting tax information? I've been a affiliate for years and my tax info hasn't changed? What's up? Thanks

06-01-2012, 09:05 PM	#2
Vjo So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Happy 4th of July :) Posts: 6,082	Fear not. Unless you are outside the US. I called them today and it is only for those outside the US. For some reason they sent it to all affils. As long as your's says "Tax Info: Yes ( Approved )" (and you are in the US) you should be good to go still and DONT need to return another W9 is what the girl said. Last edited by Vjo; 06-01-2012 at 09:10 PM..

06-01-2012, 09:57 PM	#8
loopardo Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: around... Posts: 81	how this work exactly? should AFF actually care about/need my tax information if I'am from another country? ?! __________________ ___

06-02-2012, 02:48 AM	#11
Oracle Porn Affiliate Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Icq: 94-399-723 Posts: 24,433	If you are not a US citizen/company etc and do not own any property in the US and have no employees in the US, you must not file a w8ben form. If you do, then you're making a false statement. pretty simple. not sure why they ask for it. __________________

06-02-2012, 03:22 AM	#12
Sunny Day Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,406	W8 IS required for ALL foreign affiliates Due to changes in the US tax law, all businesses are required to issue 1099's to every business or individual the pay more than $600 in a year. Whether or not a W9 or W8 is on file. W8 Instructions "Purpose of form. Foreign persons are subject to U.S.tax at a 30% rate on income they receive from U.S. sources that consists of: Interest (including certain original issue discount (OID). Dividends; Rents; Premiums; Annuities; Compensation for, or in expectation of, services performed; connected with the conduct of a trade or business in the Substitute payments in a securities lending transaction; Other fixed or determinable annual or periodical gains, profits, or income." The key sentence is "Compensation for, or in expectation of, services performed;" You as an affiliate are expecting compensation for a service performed. The US business is paying you money. To prove they paid out the money they must receive a W9 from any US based company or individual or a W8 from a foreign based company or individual. If they don't have this document on file, they are required to withhold 30% of the money due you. Companies don't want to fuck with the hassles of withholding. So they put in a policy, no W9 or W8, no payment. You don't want to get paid, then don't fill out the form. The statement "If you are not a US citizen/company etc and do not own any property in the US and have no employees in the US, you must not file a w8ben form. If you do, then you're making a false statement." IS TOTALLY INCORRECT The fact that a US corporation is paying you, makes it US income, unless you fill out a W8 to prove you are not a US corporation or citizen. You fill out the W8, the IRS won't tax you. However, they will report that money to the country you are in, if they have a tax treaty.

06-01-2012, 09:08 PM	#3
Slick Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houghton, MI Posts: 7,338	I got the same thing here. Thanks Vjo for clearing that up.

06-01-2012, 09:49 PM	#7
shake frc Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bitcoin wallet Posts: 4,663	I got this too, but I'm in Canada so I'll probably have to send something in.

06-02-2012, 02:27 AM	#10
mikeworks Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 272	------------------------- Section 9 of Medley Affiliate Network Agreement (http://medley.com/medley_affiliate_network_agreement) requires that you submit certain Required Tax Documentation within 60 days of the establishment of your affiliate account. To date, you have provided us with either inaccurate or no tax documentation. Please kindly complete and return the required tax form (http://friendfinder.com/go/page/affiliate_forms_w8) to us at [email protected] or by faxing it to (408) 745-5678, Attention: ?Affiliate team, tax ID information? no later than Friday, June 15, 2012. Please include your Gpid and the required tax id on the correspondence. Your failure to provide this form will result in your suspension from our affiliate program. If you have any questions, please contact your affiliate manager. Thank you for your prompt response. Sincerely, Medley Affiliate Team 1-800-388-0760 (toll free) ----------------------------- By providing this information any government official will be able to search google for your gpid finding all your adult websites. If your business is 'online marketing' because you don't like/want your name/business associated with adult then the ONLY solution is to stop promoting aff. I personally would rather stop promoting aff than complete this form. My rep has told me auditors are insistent upon this. If this situation does not change I will be removing all aff adverts next week and I have been an affiliate since 2003.

06-02-2012, 06:51 AM	#14
Sunny Day Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,406	W8 If I'm XYZ Porn Inc., incorporated in Los Angeles and your one of my affiliates based in the Netherlands, it doesn't matter to the IRS where any servers are based or where the final buyers of the porn are living. ALL that matters is I'm incorporated in California and have a home office in L.A. By that I'm required to get a W9 or W8 from anybody I pay except some homeless guy I paid $20 to sweep the driveway. And if he does it more that $600 worth of driveway then he too will have to fill out a W9. Otherwise the IRS assumes I put that money in my own pocket and will tax me. The IRS used to only require 1099s for when businesses didn't have a W9 on file or payments to individuals. Now they require 1099 for any person/corporation receiving over $600. Same with W8 & W9. They require for anyone you pay. I was an accountant in the Tax Department of a Fortune 750 corporation for over 5 years. You can argue forever, but unless you sign a W8, you're not going to get paid.

06-02-2012, 08:10 AM	#16
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,571	I got that email and I emailed back to ask if they misplaced the existing W-9, as my info has not changed. Haven't heard back. I'm not seeing the tax info field in my admin, but I admit I don't really promote AFF, so I'm not exactly an expert on using their admin. __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

06-02-2012, 08:15 AM	#17
Sunny Day Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,406	US Companies I'm saying that the IRS is going to demand a W8 or W9 from everybody I pay. You might occasionally get an auditor to accept an alternate letter, but agents work on a quota system to bring in as money as fast as possible. A foreign entity without a W8 is a huge red flag. The agent will assume the US corp. is funneling money offshore illegally. This means the US corp. and all owners of the US corp. will get full tax audits. Their choice, a W8 from you, not do business with you or a full audit. Which do you think they will take. At best the IRS agent will demand the US corp. withhold 30% of your payments. The IRS isn't stupid. These alternate letters are an attempt to avoid taxes in your home country. That's why they have tax treaties. To share information.

06-02-2012, 11:04 AM	#19
Sunny Day Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,406	W8 I didn't want to imply YOU were avoiding taxes, but there are some here who would be doing that. Sorry for any misconception. I used to spend several hours a week dealing with W9s, for groups claiming sales tax exemption from purchases they made with the company I worked for. No W9, no state sales tax exemption certificate for a charitable organization, NO SALES TAX REFUND. As for TOS, sponsors need to update their TOS and need to explain the shift in IRS policy. Many sponsors sent W9s to foreign based affiliates, as Suzy Bookkeeper didn't know better. She didn't know what a W9 was until told to send them out. She has no clue what a W8 is. As for keeping affiliates money that is wrong. But the IRS has made it clear, no W8, then you have to withhold and send to the IRS 30%. The affiliate can then file the proper tax forms at the end of the year and ask for the money back. After proof they are a foreign entity, the IRS is required to refund the foreign entity the 30%. If the sponsor keeps the 30% and does not forward the money to the IRS there are sever penalties. Same has US employer withholding. Don't send that to the IRS and they will seize not only the business but all personal assets of the owners. Sometimes they even go after the bookkeepers as "they knew what was going on." But the question is, do you really want to go to that hassle and possible fines for not filing a W8? There's idiots in this country who fill out W4s to reflect they will owe zero taxes or have 25 dependents so they will owe no taxes so their withholding on their paycheck is zero. IRS is wise and has a special penalty for that. Last edited by Sunny Day; 06-02-2012 at 11:06 AM.. Reason: wrong spelling

06-03-2012, 03:50 AM	#20
mikeworks Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 272	It seems every 18 months or so AFF send an email asking you to do xyz or your account will be suspended. I am sure they hope webmasters miss the email completely. It means more cash for them. As u-Bob pointed out Google are not requiring this, so why are AFF?

06-03-2012, 05:24 AM	#22
pocketkangaroo Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 8,452	Got the same e-mail here. Even asked for a scanned copy of my drivers license last year. This is even after sending them a 1099 and pointing them to the Secretary of State site pointing out where we are registered as a business. And we don't have shady traffic or anything. Been an affiliate of theirs for like 7 years. Don't understand it why this needs to be an annual process.

06-04-2012, 02:41 AM	#23
Alex69 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 328	are they stupid? the will not take document without tax id. some countries do not have tax ids...

06-04-2012, 06:40 AM	#26
smutnut So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Babylon Posts: 5,889	I got one and sent it in even though I'm in US, but glad to hear it doesn't matter

06-04-2012, 07:51 AM	#27
digitalfantasies Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Caribbean Posts: 2,709	who's got an AFF rep icq for me? __________________

06-04-2012, 08:37 AM	#28
tobe87 Cougar Hunter Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Global Posts: 396	Here is the ICQ for FFN affiliates 215446267, or you can hit me up. __________________ [email protected] Skype - kalyn.sanders

06-04-2012, 03:29 PM	#31
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,571	One of their affiliate reps just wasted a half hour of my time on ICQ to impart only that, yes, they do have my tax info on file but why don't I promote them more. Apparently, she felt sending affiliates an erroneous tax info request was an awesome way to open a dialog on how to get more traffic . . . well, not really a dialog, as it was mostly just her saying I should promote AFF. __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

06-04-2012, 03:48 PM	#32
tobe87 Cougar Hunter Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Global Posts: 396	If the information for your W-9 is current, no action is required. __________________ [email protected] Skype - kalyn.sanders

06-04-2012, 11:16 PM	#34
Aka_Bluey Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 631	Up for the afternoon crew... .

06-05-2012, 06:18 AM	#35
cordoba Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,241	I'm in the UK and had the same message. I don't see any place in my account details to make a statement that I do not have US activities, only to select non us business, which I already had. What is your business tax classification? (USA only): Which tax category should your business be in?: Non U.S. Business

06-05-2012, 06:19 AM	#36
cordoba Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,241	Filling in the form is actually quite easy : http://www.metacafe.com/watch/338741...l_form_w_8ben/

06-07-2012, 02:40 AM	#38
mikeworks Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 272	AFF have all the information already. That form is a US Treasury form, not internal to AFF from my understanding.

06-07-2012, 04:28 PM	#40
tobe87 Cougar Hunter Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Global Posts: 396	AKA_Bluey I'm on ICQ most of the day and I always respond if I see a message. Please email me [email protected]. Thanks! __________________ [email protected] Skype - kalyn.sanders

06-07-2012, 06:30 PM	#43
garce Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,103	I'm outside the U.S, and I'm going to let them close my 10 year year old account and keep the couple hundred bucks a year I make off them - mainly because I don't have a clue what my Mexican rep is asking me to do. Enjoy the happy meals you fucking thieves! Fuck that shit. I only wish "Reuben" spoke better English instead of the nonesense, garbled crap emails he sends me. 1) Most "Foreign" webmasters do not understand pig-English. A Reuben is a sandwich. Sandwiches don't speak English. Either does your Reuben. 2) Get an actual English speaking rep to contact your "north of Mexico" affiliates. 3) Pay me for all sales up until June 15, 2012 (HAHAHAROFL!) 4) I will continue to claim the average income I've earned from you over the past decade on my taxes whether you pay me or not. 5) Don't ever have a Spanish native contact your foriegn webmasters. WTF? Nobody speaks English - or even Engrish - at Cams/Aff/BOFT? Another plan: Steal my money (because that's what desperate, dying businesses do) and buy yourself a Happy Meal. Or a six pack. Enjoy. Fuck off. Learn English. Continue to fail.

06-07-2012, 08:55 PM	#45
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,571	I see FFN has still not given a straight response on who needs to fill out the form. They are neither confirming nor denying that they lost my paperwork, even though they insisted on a copy of my drivers license and Social Security card, which I am not thrilled to have floating around. Here is what they sent me today: "Dear Amelia, Unfortunately, we are required to have this w-9 tax form on file for every affiliate we have updated annually per the ?IRS?. This is true because our company has went public and we are paying you US income. Please update the form as per the prior email request and email back to us so we can update your account as soon as possible. Thank you so much! " Anyone know the link to the page on the IRS web site where it says all public companies need to get a new W-9 every year? __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

06-08-2012, 10:28 PM	#46
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,571	Anyone who is not me get an accurate straight answer out of FFN on this latest debacle? Anyone get what FFN is trying to do here? __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

06-08-2012, 10:39 PM	#47
selena Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: On The Edge Posts: 7,994	They sent me an email saying that while they had gotten my form, I had not included my tax id number. I thought it was possible that I missed it, so I went to look at the attachment. It was clearly typed right on the form, so I sent it right back to them. __________________ ~ Doer of Things at MetArtMoney Where Flawless Beauty Meets Art ~The MetArt Network ~ selena.delgado9

06-09-2012, 02:43 AM	#48
mikeworks Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 272	I am sorry to hear you feel this way about this request. I have included your affiliate manager so that you two can discuss further details. This is just a requirement that our company has to follow because we went public recently. It has been placed upon us by the IRS for all of our affiliate accounts that we pay out US funds too. I understand if you are uncomfortable doing so, just keep in mind that on 6/18 your account will be placed on hold. Thank you for your quick reply and Good day! fax or email us at 408-745-5678 or [email protected] http://www.atsu.edu/employeeforms/pdfs/W-8_forms.pdf Sincerely, Felicia Riger Various, Inc. a FriendFinder Networks Inc. company 220 Humboldt Court Sunnyvale, Ca 94089 I emailed back this: If you read this thread: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1070090 you will see that other public listed companies such as google/amazon do not require this information. Here is google stating this on their tax information page: https://www.google.com/adsense/taxinfo Non U.S. Business (No U.S. Activities ) United States (U.S.) Activities involve having employees or owning equipment in the U.S. that are involved in any way with revenue earned through the AdSense program. This includes, but is not limited to, owning a web server or owning a hosting service in the U.S., or having employees in the U.S. who are involved in either: setting up a web server, hosting service, or website developing content for your website marketing to create a user base for your site telephone support for your site buying products for your site maintaining your site Generally, utilizing an unrelated third-party U.S. web hosting service to host your web pages, renting web servers that are located in the U.S. from an unrelated third party, or having your payment sent to a U.S. Post Office Box or mail forwarding address, do not of themselves constitute U.S. Activities. If you do not have U.S. Activities, please visit the Tax Information page under your My Account tab where you will agree to a statement to that effect. No tax forms are required in this instance. ---- So why is AFF requesting this information? I have no U.S. Activities. I am pretty sure the multi billion dollar company google would not get this wrong, they can hire the very best lawyers. So please look into this again, otherwise you will be losing a loyal affiliate dating back to 2003. Best regards