Mutt posed a good point. Is there an affordable solution to the decline ip paysite sales?

Fucked that up then.

And wow. I predicted you'd not make a week with me on ignore. YOu didn't even last 3 hours.

Fucking lollington lol.

PS 200 hundy people laughing at Paul's lack of ideas.

When you go into an airport there is free water everywhere, it is free yet the shops still sell it often right next to where it is free

Most workplaces have free water for their employees, either from the tap or from machines. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasnt a law to allow employees access to water. They don't charge employees for taking a glass of water from the tap. It is free. Yet employees go out in their lunch break and buy it and take it back to work.

When you go to the gym there is free water everywhere, it is free yet the gyms still sell it in vending machines right along side where it is free

When you go into a restaurant anywhere in England pretty much and ask for tap water the restaurant will give it to you for free, yet people still buy it. Including my Mrs

Often apartments and flats have water included in their rent. It is free, they pay no extra to have it. Yet people who get it for free still pay for it and put it in their fridge.

Most people who pay water rats in the UK are not metered. I'm not metered at home so I have to pay what I pay regardless of how much water I use. So when I take a glass of water out of the tap it costs me no extra. It is free. But my Mrs like millions of others still buys water.

When I use to live at home with my parents, like many other people, they didn't charge me extra for water I drunk. It was free. But I still bought it.

If you wanted to, you could collect water in the garden in a big tank when it rains, or scoop up the snow when it snows and drink it for free. Yet people still buy it.

Water is often free. Even when drunk at home, unless you have a meter, then drinking extra water on top of what you have to pay is free.

I would say its almost impossible to not get free water. Usually right along side where you pay for water.

It has been proven time and time and time again, people buy water because they want to. Not because it tastes better and certainly not because they can't find free water.

Water is bought as a lifestyle choice. When you buy into bottled water you buy into a life aspiration. No one buys water for any other reason. They "think" they do. They are wrong though. Ask the people who buy and sell water.

Water is bought and sold between countries who have an abundance of water. Waters biggest market is countries that have unlimited supplies of water selling to other countries that have unlimited amounts of water. Not countries without water. They don't buy hardly any.


Water is free. Yet people still buy it.

Let me explain a small point to everyone.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF DRINKING WATER, SHOWER WATER, TOILET WATER, TAP WATER OR BOTTLED WATER OR ICE COLD VODKA OR VINTAGE CHAMPAIGN IS FREE.

We sell porn.

So all you trolls running off on a tangent trying to prove water is free, is a waste of your time and shows you all up as clueless.

I HAVE TIME TO POKE FUN AT YOU. WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSES?

isn't who complaint that there is to much FREE porn out there?

I took gideon off "Ignore" wondering what intelligent comment he might make in this thread.

Now back to "Ignore" for him.

Your grammar is worse than mine, but it's a great point.

The fools, who call themselves marketing people, comparing online porn to the bottled water business are missing a few fundamental points.

Damina came closest to it with his answer of people on street corners giving out free bottled water. Still not precisely right.

The people giving away free porn stand between the buyers and sellers. Buyers often wade through tons of free porn to get to a paysite. There are a few who can go straight to a paysite but it's tiny %.

The culture is to buy bottled water. We online have done our utmost to make the culture to not buy online porn.

Rarely do people get unclean water water when buying bottled water, they run a much biger risk of getting poor porn when buying a membership.

And I could go on and on. But the pseudo marketing men in online porn will still dribble out the same crap about bottle water and free water. To deter people from looking at the truth. In the marketing world online porn must be a joke.

We spent 12 years or more, giving away as much porn as possible, when BW crashed we didn't do much to the product that made a real difference. We just loaded the Internet with more free porn. Yes trolls we put bigger WMV and FLV movies inside sites. And 100,000,000 surfers prefer Tubes to members areas. So I guess that wasn't such a great move.

It all started a long time ago when people decided the best way to sell porn was to give it away. And claimed the reason it worked was because millions were coming online for porn. Well 12 years later that's exposed as bullshit. They got an online connection and came to get the free porn. And a few bought. Maybe as few as 1-200. Of that 200 there were many who had bought offline porn.

Now the free porn model is hitting online porn. and they point the finger at pirates. Still ignoring the real cause, they ca look in a mirror to see who to blame.

And this post while being spot oo true, will get nothing but pointless abuse, to deter people from discussing the problem and finding a solution. If there is one now.

Remember that everyone as the replies come in.

paul why do people spend money advertising paysites on tubes month after month?

The biggest problem with online porn is the people in it.

If you started in 1998, survived, did well, kissed asses, supported everyone in their flawed theories. you often achieve "Bro" status. People tell you how clever you are, because you told them how clever they are and the business is built on sand.

If you're someone who hits online porn after decades of working offline, direct and indirect, marketing and selling your product and yourself, learning what customers want, learning how to create, market and sell it. And see online is largely producing crap, has no idea what customers want, don't even like to meet customers and can only sell it by giving it to 100s to find 1 to buy (not selling or marketing in anyones book) and point out it's wrong. You achieve Troll status.

Doesn't matter that 12 years later you're proved right. You're still an idiot for calling the idiots wrong.

As they tap away from their living rooms, they think they're part of a big industry. Think online porn made more than offline, then quote production companies figures to prove themselves right, because quoting the retail porn business figures would show their ignorance. Worse still they still think as the ship sinks, throwing buckets of water into the ship is still going to save it.

The bright ones have long gone, the clever ones are going. And an old retiree sits here poking fun at them. For the mess they made.

paul why do people spend money advertising paysites on tubes month after month?

Because it's cheaper than letting you send them traffic as an affiliate, because it's the only place left with decent traffic, because many of the sites are owned by the big boys and doing deals with each other, because the idiots in this business want to pay their assassins. Because it's cheaper than making a site that's worth joining. Because throwing gasoline on a fire is the best way to put the fire out.

You really are clueless. Wait till sales on paysites aren't worth buying ad space for, because people can't be bothers to go to the ad to click.

Hi PJ, had to go eat breakfast and gave your question for thought. So why do they?

Without irony this time.

Look around GFY at the money spent given to affiliates to get a sign up. Think back to 1998 to the birth of the affiliates system and it's growth. The whole structure of the affiliate system was flawed. People did buy porn and it was easy to sell, the people with paysites often thought they didn't and it was hard to sell.

So they paid a lot of money to a lot of people and gave them all the tools they needed to erect a wall between the buyer and seller. And the solution to all problems was to pay for more builders and give them more bricks.

Tubes and earlier TGPs cost online porn billions. Yes they did not create sales, they destroyed the need to buy. We all remember the ratios off a TGP. One on The Hun had to be very good or the BW burn would cost more than the returns. That's because 1,000s were consuming and not buying. Top spots were often bought by sponsors themselves, to get sign ups and get affiliates attention.

The only thing save us from the Tsunami was BW costs, we wouldn't do anything to save ourselves.

Better question is. Why did online porn create it's own assassin and pay so much to him. 10% would of been more than enough to pay affiliates, a few pictures per set, fine, a few banners fine. And the rest. Well this was the common sense route.

You're self employed, sub contractors. Go do it for yourself.

There's a phrase that says "He who pays the piper calls the tune." Not in online porn. Sponsors pay the piper and the piper calls the tune.

The amount of money and over all support given to affiliates would of been far better spent in house with a marketing department. That's largely what the big Tubes are today. Owned by the big boys and good luck to anyone trying to compete with them.

So to answer your question , why do they advertise on Tubes? The industry built it's house on sand and the only way to keep it afloat is to pile more sand under the foundations.

Or simply.

They have little alternative.

Not because Tubes are better, because no sponsor can say Tubes have replaced the old sales. Was it you that said you were doing 1-800 off Tube traffic? You never told us how many surfers it takes to get 800 to a site. Can you. Will you?

I first wandered into an Internext show, crossing the corridor from the AVN show. And was shocked with the people selling manning stands then.

Did buyers of the Zmaster content discs know where the images came from, thought about what they were doing? The images were often the out takes from a porn video shoot or old stuff from the archives of magazine shooters. The discs were selling in the 1,000s. Of course it was saturated, that was Zmasters and my aim. We want loads of people to buy the same sets over and over again.

Then the sponsors who were offering me @5,000 a year and slightly more to shoot exclusive for them. The best was $50,000 They didn't have a clue what a successful magazine shooter makes. Here was a Brit, in Las Vegas, on their stand for business and they still though $25,000 was a wage for me.

Then content brokers who didn't have the money or a clue what would sell or were going to rip me off. Not wanting to pay $300 for the license to sell my sets online. Soon found out $300 was a steal for them.

Bunch of clueless people. most didn't last very long. We all remember those who did and forget those who fucked up.

Then site owners and sponsors. did they really think buying custom content from someone who couldn't sell the same scene 7 times from a store wasn't that good? Forget magazines, none of the content shooters in 2000 had a clue how to shoot 120 frames for a set that would sell for $3,000.

Then the guys who think shooting porn is about the camera. It's not, it's about the model and the way the shooter directs her. Cameras even in the days of film weren't that hard to use. Video has stopped being on film before many here were born. No excuse for that. But a guy who had no idea how to shoot porn, thought he could do it because he had a camera.

That surfers only wanted cheap badly shot content masquerading as amateur. When the truth was clear, that's all they could afford to buy.

And that's the truth about the birth of online porn. It was a business started on a shoestring by people who couldn't market bottled water in the desert, couldn't tell the difference between a nude model and porn. And worse of all people who were so convinced they were right, when they were doing all they could afford to do, and the rest of the world was wrong, created instead of the best thing to hit porn, created the worse.

Yes you can now tell me I'm wrong. Doesn't change the fact online porn is on a downward slope and know one has a clue how to apply the brakes or even thinking of it. Just trying to pick up more speed by supporting the their nemesis. Pay Tubes for ad space.

Maybe the demise of of online porn will make a more read book than one on how to shoot porn, very soon.

you are alone. talking to yourself. no one is interested. no one cares.

do yourself a favor, give your computer to an impoverished family and take up lawn bowling or something. just don't tell them your stories of men sucking your cock and women pissing on your face. you could use some real life friends. don't scare them off.

Video has stopped being on film.



Are you sure?

Great constructive answer.

The shame is people should of listened 12 years ago.

I understand your lack of a credible answer to me. You thought you had it with why do sponsors buy ads on Tubes. When replied to you had to shut up because you realised your foolishness in asking such an obvious question.

Yes affiliates now run the ship. You want traffic pay them, play their game and hope to spend less on the traffic than it's worth in joins.

Pay the piper to call the tune.

Yes I'm clueless, a loser, a no nothing. But I'm the only guy thinking up ways to get us out of this mess. You have only ideas to make the mess worse. And yes people are reading this thread. Just know they have nothing with any logic to contribute and don't want to make a stupid statement I can answer in seconds. Not bad for a clueless, no nothing loser.

Heheh.

What ideas?

You've not had a single idea, bless you.

Also, what I said about the water bollocks was that talking analogies about porn was pointless. This is porn. Not water.

It distracts from the fact that Paul has no ideas and is rambling like a lonely old man.

Thanks for the bump. Won't open it as it's probably the same dribble.

Still thanks.

Pleasure.

So Paul, when your little girl is 15 would you want her being taught in a classroom by an old sexual predator who said teachers "must have an iron will" not to give in to fucking their students?

ya that is pretty funny. the only guy thinking up ideas to get out of this mess? how about those of us who are already out of "this mess"?

his memoriam will be on the opposite end from Steve Jobs. hated by all rather than revered by all. a life too long rather than a life cut too short. 34 years and nothing to show for it versus the guy behind Apple.

Paul is a funny old guy...

Says the king of failed analogies. Still don't know what a troll is either I see. Ever come to understand what a freesite is, or is that another one you still have no idea of?

While the biggest problem on boards that still put up with your dribbling shit is the people that tried to be in it, didn't understand how to be in it, and are forever telling people they are 'no longer' in it, when the sad truth is everyone but them knows they were never in it to begin with, apart from being on a par with hobbyists.

You failed miserably at online porn, online marketing, online everything. Your recourse is to sit in front of your keyboard all day in your supposed retirement years, typing out flawed to the core essays that no sane webmaster even reads, merely skims in their 'water cooler' moments, all the while shaking their heads in disbelief that someone with 34 years of shooting porn is 'bored' enough to do it.

Spend some of your hordes of cash earned from shooting and fuck off and do something. Or lie on your death bed saying "I wish I posted on gfy more instead of enjoying life". You truly are a sad fuck, and the epitome of how to live life's latter years in a state of bitterness and wastefulness. Thanks for the life lesson - I will remember you when it comes to deciding how not to spend my retirement, much appreciated

yo man u dont have to include the whole quote when it looks like that. its just as annoying as the original idiot post from dumbfuck Markham lol

hey i saw u try to hit me up on skype about PornCMS? try email - sales at porncms dot com

lol sorry mate, I'm too fucking lazy most of the time :D

Wasn't me on skype.

ah it said Jer not Jel, my bad lol

I don't think they had anything to offer. So won't bother to read them.

So back to the thread.

Marketing by the present people, marketing online porn isn't the solution. Anyone who thinks it is, needs to think harder. Because marketing has been one of the main focuses of online porn for the last 12 years. So if marketing is any solution we either need them to come up with new ways to market or we need new and better marketing people. Doing more of the same with the same people, isn't a solution.

Is there a new and better way to market online porn?

PK has a seed of an idea. His version of it is fine for Ma & Pa operations. If he can teach people what to do when they get to Facebook, just telling them to go there more than once a day isn't going to make much difference once there.

Still his idea can be expanded on.

Is it viable for a site like Brazzers to take this idea which isn't new and adapt it to their site or sites?

Girls don't just turn up knock out a bland scene they could do for anyone. They produce a scene that's "Theirs" in the sense it reflects who that are. They then market themselves on the Social Networks talking about their latest scene on www.whateverpornsite.com. Is there the potential to take it up a notch from where solo girl sites do it?

I do know Sarah Daniels does this on FB, as does Ben Dover and others.

Does it have to be the model or someone posing as her? This could be thought of further.

Can we expand on it?

Can a company create a Social Network site purely for porn?

Is there enough money in online porn today for it to work?

Nothing new trolls, just adapting existing ideas to move them up.

Clearly the content needs to adapt as well. People who want see a particular model will not be satisfied with the bland scenes which lack personality so many sites churn out. These girls are just flesh, come in, get it on, get paid and get out.

Clips mean to be shot specifically for promotion. Don't just take cuts from the full scene. Create the preview as a preview with the sole aim of selling the girl and the product. Was doing this years ago. After the days shoot, the model talked about her day, the high lights and showed her happiness at having such a good time. Or with girls I knew well would do it at the beginning of the day, looking forward to her days work. Many ways it can be done.

The clip Manwin decided to leave out of Sandra walking through the park and the ending of her looking completely satisfied would work fine with some additions that would of been shot through the day.

Then sites would be a collection of both scenes as they are now and scenes from girls who headline on the site. Show porn stars as stars, not just as procession of naked girls.

Just a seed of an idea that could be developed by others to suit their sites and niches. Can the present marketing people take it up a notch or two or do we need fresh marketing people. As said, the old marketing people trotting out the old marketing methods is what got us here.

no one gives a fuck.

and Paul is the only one reading his worthless posts lol

Paul...why do you destroy your good points with stuff that is ridiculous.

You are making revisionist history by trying to claim that "12 years ago" you were telling everyone who would listen how to really market porn.

Can you show me just one post from even 10 years ago (your GFY join date) where you were saying that?

I've only seen you saying that for the last couple of years.

Despite what some clowns are saying in this thread...your posts are read by many of us who are IN this business and take it all very seriously.
But when you make exaggerated statements that just aren't really what happened...it hurts the rest of your argument.

I have tried to look and the board doesn't mark threads I posted in not just my threads. I went on memory of telling people the damage it was doing to offline would come online.

It was something people were saying.

http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=125020

http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=125005

Read the comments afterwards, ironic.

It would of not been so bad if it had stayed at the 2002 level. Not so bad, still someone was saying it's hurting. Will keep searching.

http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=125161 this one is interesting, how many lasted?

OK I never found one of me saying, so just going on my memory and knowing the damage it was doing.

Others were talking about it.

http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=86779

http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=125174

http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=125303

Just a few. Ironic that even back then some knew the problem was too much free porn.

Few were listening too busy adding to the problem.

Yes it does, you retard.

Advanced search. Search for your name as an author. Reverse the date. Try and find just one post where you said anything like you claim you said.

Lol.

A lot of people DID say that back in the 1990's and early 2000's. And a lot of those same people ended up dead broke and out of the game.

And a LOT of the old school guys used to look down their noses at me and everyone else in online porn during the 1990's and thought it was beneath them and they didn't need to try and sell porn online. A few years later they were OUT of the game and we were making great money.

Today? Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that we are fucked.

But there is/was a "sweet spot" for giving away SAMPLES of porn on our TGP's back a few years ago that undoubtedly sold more porn than EVER in history.

It was once that line was crossed by idiots who as you said...could NOT sell porn because they were too stupid...well, that's when we ended up where we are now.

IF the last three years had not happened, and IF the first time that Pornhub stole a vid somebody had beat the shit out of them...Well, everything would be different.

But I can spit in one hand and wish in the other too...guess which one will fill up first?

I don't get this. Are you talking about 100 sign-ups a day or $100 a day?

If you're talking about 100 sign-ups a day and saying that's bad.... I would say that 100 sign ups a day for one site is fantastic

The problem is once the system was set and the amount of funding there was for the free sector. It was inevitable it would grow and grow and then the balance would tip.

Your idea that it sold more than ever is wrong. The World Wide market for porn was immense. If they couldn't get hardcore videos, they could get Playboy mags.

Still it's over, as you say it's long gone. I'm fortunate that I was able to get in during the days when I could sell a single one hour tape of a girl doing three solo scenes, a 1,000 times at $40 a pop. Thankful I didn't blow all the money on loose women and travel.

Nothing was going to stop Tubes like Pornhub. No one would of beat the shit out of them.The 2257 law was badly enforced, DMCA written for a time when Tubes were even thought of and the funding for them to run and be profitable was the same funding you made millions from.

The only thing this industry could of done was to pay affiliates their real worth. 10% max for the good ones and little to no tools. A few samples. When the idiots tried to up the game, the sane could of dropped the prices and isolate them.

But we decided getting people to look at porn was hard and the only way to get enough so a few would buy, was to give it away for free and pay affiliates a fortune while providing them all the tools.

Do you know the number of hits a TGP got for every 1 person who went to the tour and then for every 1 person who bought? I had a rough idea of ours and the figures were mind blowing. It was obvious even then the losses were huge. You don't become the biggest supplier of porn EVER while sustaining that loss of sales.

Think retail shops world wide, selling everything for a Playboy mag to a Private video, rental, phone sex, cable, etc. That was the problem the self delusion of online porn.

It's over and done. If online ever did sell more than offline. It's because they passed each other. One on the way up and the other on the way down.

Offline had 50 great years. Online didn't have 15. Talking great years, not in business.

Offline created legends, multi millionaires the size that online will never get to. Hefner, Flynt, Raymond, Gold, Sullivan and more. We have Fabian.

Damian will tell us they made their money in other things. The man is clueless. They made so much money in porn they could diversify. But when an industry employs marketing men of his level. Well that says it all.

I was talking about the profit needed to fund a live girl.

It's in relationship to my original post. If there is a solution to the mess, is it affordable?

I think you're right. Few sites today do 3,000 a month. and the ones that do are very likely those with Tubes and they lose sales more than any other method we ever had of losing them. Those sales today are coming from smaller fish. Eventually those losses will be theirs.

If there is a solution it might be in paysites offering web cams at a reduced price and exposing the paid dating sites industry for what most of it is. A con. Or offering free dating sites. Hitting the funders of Tubes might be a solution. It's how it can be done that's the problem.

Anyway, fortunately we're sitting pretty. Nothing will change, feel for some of you guys. That's genuine. Even for Damian, when porn eventually gets too small for him to earn a living, he might make it in mainstream. If not the odds on him getting a job with his CV are slim. In offline marketing impossible.

"Let me show you how I was doing split testing on 3 ways Cashes porn sites Mr Employer."

Nope. I was making around 20 grand a month on cam sites. Same for dating.

But I was making a LOT more selling PORN via paysite memberships.

I sold PORN for a living. The extra money from cams and dating was what me and my partners bought new cars and other toys with. It was gravy. The tube sites are making gravy and THINKING it's the main course because they weren't in our league. Between AL4A and Ampland we were selling more porn than most anybody else out there.

And yes, Porn has always been worldwide Paul. But we were far, far outselling DVD's and magazines...the internet IS worldwide and our customers didn't have to drive to an adult bookstore (if there was even one where they lived) and bought in the privacy of their own homes.

All of it seems crazy to even think about these days. Paysites are on life support. And it's not because of anything other than FULL SCENES by the thousands being readily available for tens of millions of current potential customers and even more future customers (the teenage boys that we used to teach to buy a membership to see it "all").

I'm not really sure that Damian has ever really been in this business. He seems to exist to attack you and that Gary guy. Other than that? I have no idea what he thinks he does in this business.

But you're right...fringe players like him are in a lot of trouble.

I take one site for example... doing $6000 a month and 50% of that is profit, the other 50% is used for producing new content. I don't take costs for server etc into consideration because those costs are minimum.

What you write about webcam girls makes a lot of sense, NOBODY can steal that from you, so I'm now going to make a deal with the models... you stay a bit longer, we shoot recorded content and when you're not shooting, you do webcam, at a rate that's good for me and for you. If you get at least two girls at the same time and make sure they are comfortable, they don't mind hanging around for a while.

As for tubes; the only solution is: us producers starting our own tubes. Give away your old content for free on tubes, from your own sites, and exchange tube space with other producers like we used to exchange banners in the past. So you put 9 of your own videos on your tube page and 1 video of another producer, and he does the same for you.

What would be the point for piracy tube sites to steal your content if you tube it yourself on your own site? The only thing you have to worry about is your new content.

Also, where does the $500 for a live girl come from? In the UK models are now doing adult for 40 pounds an hour or less. I hear about UK girls shooting on Ibiza for 100 pounds a day and stay in an appartment with swimming pool.
The biz is difficult for models as well and those who want to continue making a living as model (and most don't have another choice because they are too stupid for normal jobs) have to lower their rates.
Remember when Czech models were considered cheap, and do anything for little money?
That now applies for the UK models. Czech models are now more expensive and demanding as UK models

you do realize that your attitude to me perfectly matches how the old guys treated you.

funny how thing repeat themselves, amazing how you can't see the pattern now your the "old school guy"

Affiliates were over paid and over indulged. Selling porn use to be easy, men did get in their cars and go to a shop or drive past one on the way home. Yes the Internet removed the need to go to a shop, still if that stopped someone buying porn they were never a great customer.

Porn is addictive, so if it needs going to a shop men did go. Delivering it to their home would make little difference, delivering it to their home for free did.

However Robbie you nor I have real figures to go on. We could look at individual company reports to see how the Internet effected them. As no one online got that big, maybe 1 or 2 did, we can only get 1 side. I saw both sides. The decline in the offline business and the increase in the online business. In no way did I see online overtaking offline's best times.

However. All of it seems crazy to even think about these days. The good days are gone, for everyone in porn except a few. And they will suffer from the same thing the rest are suffering from because no one is doing anything to stop the trend. I wrote years ago that throwing more water into a bucket with a hole in it, won't fill the bucket. Few thought of fixing the bucket, just throwing more water in and the hole got bigger.

I will start a thread in answer to my epic one of "It's hard to shoot porn today." Give people more to think about.

Marketing isn't away free samples day after day like online did. Marketing is doing it for one day, enticing people to try, to look at the product, to buy and to keep buying. Knowing how to give more samples away than anyone else, make the free distribution point look good and satisfying the need to get in the car or to even buy the product, is definitely not marketing.

It's slinging mud at the wall and hoping some will stick. And not very hard. Yes some can throw straighter and harder. Still doesn't make it what it's not.

Yes, there will be many people looking at their weekly stats this week and scratching their heads about how long it will last. Damian's in a slightly better position than many, he doesn't have a huge mortgage r a flashy life style. Some here will be in debt purely on the mortgage and 10 years in porn isn't going to look good on a CV. And if you think a potential employer will just take "I was in online media marketing" or some other bland statement is self delusion. The next question will be "Can I see some of your work please."

Damian think a man's wife waking him up to have sex with him and a girl is in someway wrong. Didn't happen, Eva never came looking for me when with a girl. but it's still nothing for porn people to think of as shocking. Problem is porn people in online porn are thin on the ground, they're traffic herders.

I was talking about 3,000 sign ups, not $3,000. Sites making $6,000 are small ones, or were. Thats like 200 members a month and 6.66 sign ups retains a day.

Yes paysites starting their own Tubes will be the next step.

Already happening.

Paul has probably never sold a single pornsite membership in his life.

Why does he think he is qualified to give an expert opinion on paysite sales?

Nothing wrong with what you said, but you're leaving out one very important variable. A penis.

When an erect penis is involved in the decision making, all bets are off. Analogies about water, mainstream sales, or hard selling, all take a back seat when a guy wants to rub one out and has found a girl he wants to rub one out to.

I used to be a porn consumer. No one ever had to sell me. The girl I was interested in did that, so long as they didn't give away too much of her. They only had to make me trust their site and get me into their members area as quickly as possible with the least amount of effort, at an affordable price. I didn't care what the site looked like, so long as it was functional and didn't have pop-ups or other annoying features. I wasn't there to give them design awards, I was there to rub one off looking at one or more of their girls.

Fast forward to 2011...

Now, I just google the girls name or the site and I get it all for free. No need to join. And unless you're using a 3rd party biller like CCbill, Epoch, Segpay, or Zombaio, I wouldn't put my card into your site anyway.

The only thing I've paid for in the past three or four years or so have been webcams. And they don't have to sell me either. No one has to bullshit me or promise anything. Just give me the girl I am interested in, and give her to me now. Because at this stage, my penis is doing most of the thinking and he doesn't have time to waste. He also is easily distracted, so if you can't give him what he wants right NOW, he may find interest elsewhere with just one click of the mouse.

My client list includes Playboy, Hustler, Easydate, am about to work with AWE and Pussycash and am a Director with the ASACP.

Yes, real fringe stuff.

Bless you and your jericurled fringe. Mullet boy.

You failed to make it as a guitarist and ended up playing in dive bars for beer money. You then whored out your wife when you realised you were broke. You have no actual skill set apart from marrying a woman with huge tits.

Bless you.

No, I think lying about that happening over a dinner table with people you've not met is inappropriate and especially icky when it is someone as old as you. You also made lewd comments about the young waitress. And many many times I've told that story to others who know you they agree and say that's exactly how you act.

But keep lying about it if you want.

Everyone that has met you would testify you letch after any young girls and talk too much about all the models you "fuck".

But I'm on ignore, right?

LOL

He doesn't. He is trolling to get attention. And it's working well.

No one actually thinks he means this advice, or is doing anything other than trying to wind everyone up do they? It's hilarious. THe biggest online failure in porn giving advice is a really good joke.

Next, he will be telling people how to avoid getting cancer. Hilarious.

Or pretending he's starting up a new job teaching English to teenagers. Can you imagine? A man who has said how hard it is for teachers not to fuck the children they are in charge of saying he's gonna be a teacher. LOL LOL LOL.

These are all classics. He is so clearly joking. But you all keep falling for it.

He's a troll genius.

Him, teaching little girls. Can you imagine! LOL!

what we've got here is generational warfare. bring it on old-timers

Well ok I was talking about what I call an average site doing $6000 a month. Someone running one site like that is still doing better than someone working in a factory and someone running a few sites like that is doing very well unless he wants to make 2 million euros a year but people like that aren't real to me and not worth my time. I'm happy if I can make 100,000 euro gross income a year, or more but if I would be making 200,000 euro gross income a year I would feel I was living a dream and give half of it to charity because I would feel guilty having so much money.

Does that make me a kitten?

But what is your solution to the decline paysite sales? Honestly I've been waiting for the punchline for quite some time now

I already posted my ideas and I use some of these ideas in practice and they work well.

You're talking about, something most webmasters are clueless. You might as well be talking quantum physiques for all they understand about porn.

They think the color of the site, design, words they add over ride crap to medium content. Totally don't understand that after a while anyone who got "sold a pup" realises to ignore the sales chatter and concentrate on the product.

Once you take this illusion away from them, they have little to "sell". All they can do which is really their function is online porn is to submit free content on a basis of paid after the sale. Because sponsors couldn't afford to put, let's say, 50 people in a room to do the job required.

They labor paid after the sale.

They only have to think of how wary they are of promoting a sponsor, after so many have failed on them, to realise the principal of once bitten twice shy.

Of course paying out for a shooter to get a good girl and make her better, is another thing few sponsors could afford.

what is quantum physiques? please enlighten me.