Paul, a dirty old man going round a B2C show asking for free samples /= product placement.

No but an experienced porn shooter with samples of his films and sites going around a B2C show does.

Who are you talking about?

Go do some more yoga, you're slipping back to your old self. You were a lot less hateful before, what's happened in your life?

One thing we can say about you Paul is you've at least done some "real" work in this business....

On the other hand, Gideon has not, nor has he ever tried to sell porn to mainstream or anyone else.

Of course, that industry is much more massive than us, and tracks everything under the sun, and will buy ads anyplace THEY think can turn a profit or expand the brand... yet THEY do not come to US, even after some of us have gone to them already....

A few million out-of-target views, is like what, an hour on a tv? A street fair can turn more "targeted" views than a porn flick can... but again, he's not really in the business.

Selling buggy whips
 

So far.

They really don't care, like tubes don't care, nor paysites giving away free porn care at who see it.

Good. A well managed product is the solution.

A friend and I made a huge mistake years ago, long before most here had heard of online porn. He was selling discs of images, via adverting on Newsgroups. If we had launched a site, watermarked all the images we would of made a fortune. That's my real regret with online marketing. I did recognise the opportunity to sell images to paysites after I had sold them to magazines.

The rules of selling haven't ever changed. Find a need, create a product to fill that need, find a person who has that need and sell your product to him.

When marketing involves killing the need to buy to fill the need. The marketing is destroying sales.

Yes everything evolves. And what worked online 10 years ago, in the paysite arena, doesn't work today. I can see that and keep throwing up ideas to change it. Might be the wrong ideas, but at least I'm throwing them up. See anyone else doing that?

Yes Shap just did it and he was applauded for saying the same thing as me. The content is the solution. By content I mean the entire product.

Still not had an answer to my original question.

Is there an affordable solution to the decline in paysite sales?

Just corrected your plural there.

HTH

You're a marketing man. So point out the flaw in this often used statement.

"If they can sell bottle water and water is free, then we should be able to sell porn."

Well the point you keep making ad nauseum is that people aren't giving away water on every street corner, and that people pay water rates. You've said that about 2320390293 times now.

However, the thing you fail to understand is that analogies are pointless. REALLY fucking pointless and just derail any discussion as people argue over the minute details of the analogy.

There is free porn. You won't stop that. What else?

What was your other point? Oh yes, spend more on content.

Any other actual *ideas* or are you spent already?

wankham's threads = online equivalent of The Word. Funny, embarrassing, cringeworthy, jaw-droppingly unbelievable, but fuck me it's addictive viewing, for the weird sensation that is all those adjectives combined.

Exackery. I was too lazy to post that exact same thing to his date/wife/whatever the fuck it was called thread.

You're still a cunt though :winkwink:

Just trying to point out the stupidity of the people who use that analogy. You have it in one.

The only thing I can think of is to move away from pre recorded porn, then the people who want live porn, chat to models will come back. Not on a 1-1 person type chat or scene but a 1-100s or 1,000s. Maybe with tips thrown in, maybe with the girls selling phone chat 1-1 experiences.

Had to be well managed and well done, not like NaughtyAmerica, it need to be done by people who understand the porn consumer, the market and not hung up on a 61 year old who likes sex. That guy's in the wrong business.

61 year olds who like sex might be a very good target market, don't need guys who think it's weird that a 61 year old can shoot naked girls.

Actually you're wrong, again, on spend more on content. some sites put up too much poor churned out scenes. Cut the number of crap scenes and shot less but better. Adding another scene that's no different from what's already on the site isn't that appealing.

The question I asked in this thread is.

Is there an affordable solution to the decline ip paysite sales?

I suppose I should change it to.

Is there a solution and is it an affordable solution to the decline ip paysite sales?

So far you flame my suggestions and never come up with any alternatives. Maybe knowing there's no solution annoys people. :winkwink:

Stop misusing internet terms. It highlights your lack of comprehension of this whole thing. I didn't 'flame' your suggestion. I pointed out you make the same suggestions and have done for years.

flame: To insult a person you are arguing with over the internet in hopes of reviving your argument.
You are an idiot for thinking this.

I've got almost 2 years of original and new suggestions on my blog: www.adultmarketing.co.uk

Sorry no one likes your ideas. But still, you are managing to annoy people by trolling so it gives you something to do.

You are lying. Lube companies and companies like FleshJack give their products away all of the time.

Go check out the sponsors at soyouthinkyoucanfuck.net ... any halfway decent gay porn producer doesn't pay for lube or toys.

Just because you can't make something work doesn't mean others can't.

Just like we've all been saying all along about your stupid arguments and own failures.

It's a poor analogy to begin with. A poor analogy offered to an idiot for a misguided and backwards dissection.

People buy bottled water because they are buying an image. They are buying an idea. Fresh, Spring, Mountains, Pure, Healthy etc etc etc etc etc etc. Just like with bottled porn sales, you have no real idea why people buy and what they are paying for and what causes them to buy.

You continually single out one minor factor (and a subjective one) like "quality" and remain totally ignorant that has little to do with sales. It has to do with value and users finding what they are looking for, a product that is well packaged, targeting that exact person, their exact needs/tastes and a very clear, well laid out site that is consistent from start to finish in its presentation. People don't necessarily need "quality" and one's idea of "quality" is different from another. An amateur site isn't selling "quality", its selling "amateur" and the quality of the actual videos is almost always horrible. In fact, being a good quality video is a negative, not a positive.

YOU don't understand these simple facts and one of the many flaws in YOUR reasoning is that water is in fact free everywhere, yet people pay for it. Just as with porn. Water is available in every single household for free. There is not a single person that pays for bottled water that doesn't have unfettered access to free water. So obviously, availability, free or not, isn't much of a factor in bottled water sales just as it is only a minor factor in porn sales. It's all marketing.

:2 cents:

And its time to start facing the awful, painful truth Paul. Your 34 years of producing content and business experience is now netting you about $1000.00-$2000.00 a month or so and you live off of government pensions, not your work.

At the end of the day,... your content at best is nothing more than a loss leader for others and filler content for thrown together tgps or worse.

That's the simple fact of your career and how it has ended. It's sad. It's depressing. It is what it is.

Please stop all the pontificating and lecturing about things you know nothing about. When even Robbie is calling you an idiot, its really time for a reality check.

Last time I checked your name was eric.. not tony..

How many FAKE names do you have, asshole?

interesting how you charge people for your shitty services, heh.

http://www.yafuckyou.com/images/smut/bigfuckyou.jpg

i'm enjoying Markham's demise here lol

So are people ignoring you or maybe trying your suggestions and finding out they don't work?

What happened to the Lolly Badcock site? They were using your ideas and they couldn't afford to pay the model on a strict shoot and pay basis. So they could KEEP the site up after SHE decided it would come down.

I'm not lying,I did try it. Maybe if I can't make it work others can. Still doesn't mean free lubes and toys will fund the production of a porn film.

I suppose if Naughty America couldn't make live cams on a paysite work, doesn't mean others can't.

That seems to be what ever paysite webmaster wants now, so its working somewhere for someone.

Maybe I should just post the same two ideas on gfy all day and call people idiots?

And Lolly retired Paul. As you know. When you work with a TV station there is much more revenue to be earned by keeping a girl sweet and getting her on TV than on a website. Or maybe you didn't realise that?

If you filled a truck with Evian bottled water bottles and placed it outside the shop selling Evian bottled water, watch sales plummet. Damian hit it right and quoted I've been saying it for years. Like you I think the business skills of online porn are negligible.

You have to think of what is "Quality porn"? Nothing to do with the images definition of lighting, etc.

My concentrating on quality porn covers everything from amateur to Playboy. quality porn is about generating the illusion in the viewers head. Examples.

For Amateur the viewer has to think this is a person hes likely to meet, someone who lives on his street, that she/he's doing this for the fun of it. As an amateur.

For Teen she has to give the illusion she's a teen and not a 25 year old in pig tails. I shot happy, cute teasing teens. Well that was the aim.

For Glamor she has to give the impression she's a girl at the top of her game, very beautiful, sultry, desirable and maybe a little out of the viewers reach. Depends who the viewer is.

These are just s few examples and there are many variations.

so why is concentrating on the quality of the product good?

1,000s can grab a camera point it at a naked girl and shoot. Only 100s can create good porn quality porn. It immediately cuts out a lot of the competition. And that's online porn's biggest mistake. They made opening a porn site and filling it pretty easy.

They made being an affiliate the easiest thing possible in business. They saturated the business with low level.

Few can shoot Met-Art, FTV, Alsscan or for magazines. They have less to compete with. The quality end of the content is the best way to remove the opposition. It just needs more money invested in the beginning and why so few could do it.

Look at it from my side, I met loads of people who had a great deal to do with me. that would of earned me less than I was earning. 9 times out of 10 it meant shooting content for less than we could sell it elsewhere, or giving them content to do a share arrangement on, or turn our studio over to web cams.

Or for some guy to bring Russian girls to our studio for us to shoot while he sites there and translates. If that was your deal, then it's a wonder why I even bothered with you.

I didn't need girls, had loads of them in Czech, remember I had 3 Czech girls who could shoot, so no language barrier and lots of work, we don't want girls flying 1,000 miles to work, what if we don't like them? We can't kick them out and we would. No shooter is happy with someone translating their instructions to a model. Has to be really necessary.

It's not my reasoning, it's the reasoning I read again and again on GFY from others. You missed that. :1orglaugh

However if the product is available for free at the point of consumption, what does that do for sales?

We can't create the image that consuming porn is cool.

Marketing will get people onto a site for an initial join. After that will marketing keep them in. Or will they stay because of the content?

If they keep signing up to sites on the basis of the marketing and find the members area doesn't live up to it. Will many learn to ignore the marketing and only go on the content they see?

Marketing is important and I'm sure Damian's ideas, will get people to a site and will get some in. That's his job finished. After that it's the job of the content producers to keep the member rebilling. And that's where many have fallen down in the past.

You met me, thought I was a crap shooter, idiot and you didn't like me. Still inflicted me on your assistant for the day and even came home with me. :Oh crap

What you missed was we could afford a studio and staff. I was selling offline at a very healthy margin and didn't need to impress you. 7 years later still making sales. And if you can't figure out why here it is.

No porn consumer gives a flying fuck what I'm like. He cares if my porn gets his dick up. And if I'm still selling after 34 years I think the question is answered.

3 pages and no one has come up with an answer. Just the usual drivel.

Is there a solution and is it an affordable solution to the decline in paysite sales?

Marketing isn't the solution. Or we're fucking awful at it, so need to get some good marketing guys in. :1orglaugh

That's why I posted the thread. Is it possible today?

When you read what some write about the awesome sales some are making, you would think increasing them by a small % would of been easy. But obviously it's not today.

I was under the impression that some were doing 1,000s of joins a day. you wouldn't have to increase joins by 100 a day, there's retention as well. Also why add 3 scenes a day that's the same as the 1,000s already on the site at a cost of $500 - what ever a scene. You have a live girl to entice the viewers. Add only 2 and then it costs nothing or even less.

Shap said he was adding 2 videos and 3 sets a day, Twistys was already full of content and the additions were just new faces or old faces in a new locations. Cut it down and add less to pay for the live girl. In fact a live girl for 5-6 hours can put out 3 good 30 minute scenes. Record it and archive it.

Put it on the Twistys tour with a date "So and So model will be here live on 23.11.11" Label on her tour pic and alter her page on the tour.

Then shoot some of it soft and stick it on Youtube. Think of the marketing possibilities with a site that has something different than the other 1,000s of sites.

People need to think about it more, or do I lay the whole thing out on a plate?

I know she retired. Are you saying she now works on TV? Or that 3waycash couldn't afford to pay her enough to own the content as they shot it and then pay her straight off to do promotion?

Models are about money, pay them and they do the work.

Yes. I told you that when she retired.

Sorry you find this confusing.

Fuck you and your thread, do you know how many good threads you've ruined with your nonsense? And you want people to stay on topic in your thread? Get over yourself nutjob.

Let me help you one more time you dumb fucking moron... by saying the same shit i've said many times already and which you seem to completely ignore.

We came to CZ. Not to you. We were in Prague. I wanted to talk to you about shooting girls for mini solo sites. I talked to a few people about it. I didn't want anything nice. Quick and dirty, nothing nice. Nothing expensive. Just 25-30 sets per girl for mini, free solo sites to promote the cam sites. Our deal was that Eva and your assistant were going to do it. NOT YOU. fucking dumbass. The whole thing had very little do with you. There was nothing in the equation about hiring the Totally Amazing Paul Markham to shoot expensive content. That was understood well before I went to Brno. You actually made us a great deal but dealing with you wasn't worth it.

As i've explained to you many many times, i needed to take them somewhere outside of the country because of the laws against production and distribution and there were limited options due to visa requirements and availability of photographers.

I would beg you to stop being a total fucking idiot, but i know how futile that is. We came, we met you, we looked around, we politely accepted your offer to dinner at your home but we knew within minutes of even meeting you that you were too much of a fucking lunatic and dipshit to deal with. The going to your studio, the shoot and everything else was just done out of morbid curiosity and to be polite.

You've been proven time and time again to be a total liar. You have no credibility. You're an arrogant ass who lives in some bizarre delusional fantasy world where you are something more than you are. NO ONE here who has been around thinks you have ANY credibility to talk about porn sales, website sites, conversions, retention or even fucking business. You're a retired, crazy old man on a pension. You are not even in the business. When your meager pension eclipses your porn sales and your wife is forced to get a job, you're not in porn anymore. You are a has been and a failure. 34 years of content and work that ended up being a total waste of time because you're too much of an arrogant ass to learn anything.

http://www.randygage.com/images/prod...broke_full.jpg

So did she own the content, 3 waycash own it or was she doing a split deal in lieu of straight cash?

Is the TV she works on Adult or Mainstream?

Seems to me if 3waycash owned the rights to the site and content and she's now on an Adult Channel, the marketing possibilities are great.

So now you're saying you wanted to take Eva and one of our assistants off shooting for the premium market to shoot cheap sets for you.

You're deluded if you think we would of done that to earn pennies. Now please stop lying out of you ass. There no fucking way I would of let 2 of the staff work on cheap sets for you or anyone else. That's well know here on the boards, we never bothered shooting cheap sets. Not for you or anyone else.

Simply a matter of finances, we could shoot for magazines and earn top money, then put it into the stores and earn more. 25-30 sets of a girl. That's 5-6 days work for us per girl. We don't knock out 10 sets a day. We're not that good. :upsidedow

We could only mange 2-3. we were very slow. In fact Eva was slower than me and both our assistant shooters were slower. Katka the make up artist and shooter was very slow and very exact in her shooting. Jana was not the girl to knock out 5 sets a day either. Doing it with you translating would of ground the whole day to a crawl.

You're a fucking liar.

So you came, saw I was an asshole, saw I was running a nice operation and then subjected you and your assistant to a whole day of me. You're a fucking liar or a fool. A polite, "No we must be off." would of done fine. You don't seem the polite type. No you stayed with this asshole out of "curiosity" :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

And Farther Christmas, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy exist. :1orglaugh

Why online porn is full of shit marketing.

Professional marketing requires people who understand the product. Thinking quality porn is Penthouse/Playboy porn is a sign of ignorance of the product and it's functions.

Professional marketing requires people who understand the consumer. Thinking he's a fool for buying porn isn't understanding him.

Thinking no one will buy porn because so much of it is free. Then multiplying the amount of free content a 10,000s of times. Is about the most stupid marketing strategy ever.

Porn never was and never should be hard to sell. Open a shop, fill it with porn, paint the windows black, put up a sign saying "Porn Shop" and take the money.

A product that is easy to sell, shouldn't be given away for free in quantities that make buying it hard to sell.

Finding useless excuses for people not buying isn't marketing. Finding ways to sell to more of the same people not buying is marketing.

Having a show and excluding the consumers is dumb. Consumers need to be sold to and listened to. Meeting them in the flash is the best way to do it. Offline porn knew that.

Which is why after 12 plus years of you guys marketing porn, selling it has never been harder. The job of marketing people is to make selling it easier.

Still with an industry where an idiot thinks other idiots are going to be convinced we were going to give over our studio and 2 of our staff to shoot 25-30 "Quick and dirty, nothing nice" sets not expensive. I'm sure many will be convinced. Wouldn't do that with one girl, let alone a lot of them.

But this idiot did spend the day with me to be polite and he was curious. :1orglaugh

What exactly do you do now for a living?

Paul, I honesty don't know how you got this far in life without killing yourself by trying to toast bread in the shower or something.

Obviously we were not planning to shoot everything at once you sorry fucking dimwit. I was talking about our plans for the sites. .

And yeah, you keep telling yourself and everyone how much you could have made selling content to magazines and elsewhere. The fact is you were struggling, .... No, you were in a full panic to stay in biz. You had just launched your discount store, were trying to start paysites and tgps and trying to lease your studio for daily rates to keep afloat. In less than 18 months you were on gyf begging for money to pay your bills and explaining that eve Eva had to get a job cleaning.

where is your brilliant marketing then paul ?

where are your sucessful sites?

you do an awful lot of talking paul but have you ever heard the expression all talk and no action ?

you keep dribbling shit and crying about the state of online porn(something 99.9% of members are fully aware of) yet thats all you are doing - driubbling shit and crying.

and after so many posts telling us how fucking brilliant you are all you have to show us is............ http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com

I mean you have to be fucking kidding me :1orglaugh

how many people make a living with online porn compared to how many did during the mag and vhs days. even with the state of the industry and economy there can be know comparison. paul will never ever grasp that.

No, he has www.astral-blue.com too. I love how he did the design himself.

this is really the main tour. It's not something I've mocked up in 2 minutes to take the piss. It's the real site.

https://img.skitch.com/20111003-r11r...us7m6f3edw.jpg

This is the real doozy. He's sat on a goldmine with all that old UK vintage porn. But he has NO CLUE how to market it.

It's a shame seeing that bankable content being pissed away. I've offered to buy it from him twice but he won't sell.

:(

and he keeps bugging me to release my client list to him. says he can help PornCMS clients improve their sites and do better marketing.

having Markham on ignore has made this thread much more tolerable...

paul would make more money uploading all his shit to filesonic and posting in the classic porn sections for the free porn boards tbh.

Lying again.

You were here in 2004. We shot this scene 9296 on June 14th 2004. You were there when we shot it. I have the paperwork if you don't believe me.

We were not struggling in 2004, we had the magazines buying, we had one content store doing well, saw the missing market for cheap sets with less restrictions like giving them to affiliates was there so opened the bargain store. It was 4 years later that Eva had her accident, our found ot our bank accounts were only accessible by her (A big mistake I have openly admitted to) and in need of sales so I could draw money out with my credit card to pay staff, studio rent and server cost. Wasn't begging, that's Damian's trolling, we were offering cut price deals and got loads of them. When I got access to the company accounts had no need to give these deals.

It was 2 years later that Eva took up a job after nursing me back to a condition where I didn't need her at home.

Nice to see you and the truth are strangers. All this is clearly known and in threads from the time.

So let me see what the deal was.

You were going to fly girls in from Russia, to take 2 of our team to shoot (at the same time with 2 girls coming over or 1 girls at a time?). This would of meant using use our studio, team and equipment for a week at a time. And to shoot "not expensive" sets. What $300 a set or $150?

And all this for a handful of girls. And you confused me not being knocked out by your offer with me being an asshole.

And you couldn't do it in Russia because shooting there is illegal, but running a live webcam is.

Yes I was shooting porn in the 1980/90s thanks for pointing that out. The tour is meant to be bad. It catches peoples attention when not looking like 1,000s of other sites.

As for sitting on a goldmine. Well that's a lie. As for the content being bankable that's a lie.

And here's the proof.

I'm shutting up shop in a few months. ANYONE who thinks they can do better with this gold mine of bankable content need only contact me to make an offer.

You have a clue Damian, you're not broke, you know lots of great things. you buy it. Or Pking.

No he's another liar.

Don't need his client list, need access to the sites. Won't talk about marketing, only how to improve the content, which I did on one of his clients sites. Where the preview video is in need of improving. Will look at it again and redo my comments.

Go on PK buy the content and show me what a great marketing man can make it worth.

that offer goes to all the trolls. Here's unique, exclusive and can never be copied content that according to Damian and a few others is a gold mine and bankable. So get on ICQ and make the offer.

Talk is cheap Damian.

where is your brilliant marketing then paul ?

where are your sucessful sites?

you do an awful lot of talking paul but have you ever heard the expression all talk and no action ?

you keep dribbling shit and crying about the state of online porn(something 99.9% of members are fully aware of) yet thats all you are doing - driubbling shit and crying.

and after so many posts telling us how fucking brilliant you are all you have to show us is............ http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com

I mean you have to be fucking kidding me

Same offer goes to papill0n and PJ.

So I fucked up a good thread. It was my thread and I didn't fuck it up. All the trolls refusing to answer the original question did that.

lol wut?

somebody teach paul how to use the multi-quote feature!

Paul I'm amazed you can't remember this guy with the nickname TheSquealer coming to visit you and having dinner at your house. If he had only come to your studio during a busy day then I could see forgetting the meeting but you actually had this guy at your dinner table - if somebody came to dinner 30 years ago I would remember it.

So lets look closer at Astral blue.

Over 160 models in the site, we feature 160 on the tour. Lots of girls inside the site with one scene not on the tour.

http://astral-blue.com/tour/solo/ Just a small taste of the solo scenes.

http://astral-blue.com/tour/hardcore/ Small selection of the Hardcore

http://astral-blue.com/tour/hairy-pussy/ Small selection of the Hairy pussy and it goes on and on in 12 different categories.

Inside the site we have daily updates of some rotated and lots of new. Wil be able to update until May 2012 without going to 100% rotation.

243 sets on the site + updates coming.

186 videos + updates coming.

We have an update a day until May. About 180 sets or videos.

That's more than some sites shot recently. And all unique, mostly exclusive as you all say we never sold from the content stores much. :1orglaugh And it was only a few scenes.

So what's this GoldMine of Bankable content worth?

Is it worth more for me to load it up to Filesonic than you lot would offer?

One thing Squealer has got dead right, is my pensions now make a lot more than the business. My private pensions that I've been paying into since the early 80s with weekly and lump sums are very tasty, the Invalid allowance is nice and next year I switch from that to a CZ State Pension and UK Invalid Allowance.

Also have something on the side burner that I might do. Away from this train wreck/Titanic of online porn.

PJ if you could do better with any of our sites, hit me up.