Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
(Post 18146818)
The thing is, traditional affiliate programs haven't been the main advertisers in magazines or resource sites for some time now... at least, not the traditional ones like SilverCash or Lightspeed. Those kinds of companies used to be big advertisers all over the place, but not anymore. On the other hand, cam companies, mobile companies, dating companies, etc, are all still pushing their affiliate programs hard.
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Here are the reasons that I mentioned why I think companies like Ynot, Xbiz, AVN, etc... will have deminishing sales going forward and will NOT be viable, very profitable companies. Sure some or all of them may stay in business, but they certaintly wont be making near what they were a couple years ago, much less will they be prospering.
Reasons being:
1. Consolidation: The trend over the last couple years, couple big companies buying out SEVERAL small and medium size companies, thus reducing the amount of potential companies that will buy ads from you.
2. Going out of business: A good bit of companies (not just affiliate programs) have gone out of business. Designers, content producers, etc... other companies have been hurt for various reasons over the last couple years and have gone away.
3. Less Revenue being made: A lot of companies still in business are making less money, having to scale back, lay off employees, close offices, etc.. and one of the big cuts they are doing is advertising on adult webmaster sites / industry mags, etc.
4. Affiliates not as sought after by companies. This is really the only one you replied to, and I disagree with what you said above.
I just checked Ynot and I see companies like 21sexturyCash, KellyCash,SugarCash, FTVCash, DaveCummings, etc.. and it looked just as much non dating/cams ads as there was dating/cams. So while it might have been a lot less than a couple years ago I think you still have a good chunk of them left to lose if things continue to go bad for the non cams/dating companies or for any of the other reasons I mentioned above.
Assuming that you are getting a lot of cam and dating companies advertising, I don't believe that makes up for all of the other "traditional affiliate" programs that have stopped over the last couple years. There isn't *that* many dating and cam companies. There were thousands of "traditional affiliate" programs and there is a fraction of that for cams and dating.
Also, as I mentioned, even cams and dating programs are valuing affiliates less and less and doing more in house traffic or deals they go out and set up. For example, I don't recall seeing Streamates advertising anywhere (if they do I missed it), and look at how many deals they have with tube sites and white labels. They literally have almost all of the top 10 biggest tube sites using their white labels. They are not trying to advertise to get 100's of noobs to join looking for that 1 gem affiliate, they go out and make deals with companies they want to promote them. Also look at MyFreeCams, they don't advertise at all and are invite/exclusive. Those are 2 of your biggest cam companies right there and there are others who are following suit and either developing their own traffic sources and/or working deals directly with site owners (no need for advertising). Look at cam4.com yet another example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
(Post 18146818)
The truth is, the affiliate model seems to work just fine for mainstream, so there's nothing wrong with the model. There's an army of mainstream affiliates out there. The only reason why it wouldn't work here in adult is if affiliates can't make sales. And if THEY can't make sales, then how can the BIG companies make sales? And if they CAN make sales on their own, then affiliates can also make sales for them. So I don't buy into arguments (not made by you, I know) that the industry will come down to just these big businesses. To have an army of marketers that only get paid on results... that's always a good thing, and it adds to the stability of your income. But affiliate companies have to be willing to prove to affiliates that they CAN make money for them, and that means putting some effort into your affiliate program... some companies still do that.
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You can't compare adult and mainstream, period. Much less making the comment that since the affiliate program works so well for mainstream it should for adult too. Adult and Mainstream have always been apples and oranges for many many different reasons. However, in the past both did rely on affiliates. But that has changed, mainly do to tube sites. Tube sites pooled a LARGE amount of adult traffic into a hand full of sites. Tube sites not only took a ton of traffic away from TGPs (which employeed a lot of affiliates) but it took traffic from link lists, blogs, free sites etc... pretty much pulled people from everything. How do these big tube sites operate... they deal with program owners directly and they cut out the affiliates. These companies aren't going to advertise in Xbiz to try to work a deal with the top 20 tube sites for example. They going to contact them directly, no need to advertise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
(Post 18146818)
As for shows, etc, it's hard for me to comment on these kinds of things because it's easy to just claim bias, since we run a show. But the truth is, face to face networking is extremely valuable. I don't think anyone is denying that shows now aren't at the levels they were say 5 years ago. They are smaller, all of them.... every last one. The largest B2B show now is fraction of what Cybernet Expo was when I first attended it in like 1999, and it was considered a "small" show at THAT time.
But even if we did not run a show, we would still make every effort to attend other shows because, like I said, face to face networking is EXTREMELY valuable. When people look for help in marketing, they're often looking for help from people who have formed networks of friends and colleagues, contacts that they can turn to in business. And while boards can be useful tools, they can't possibly replace face-to-face for building up that network.
So the issue to me isn't if shows are getting smaller -- cause they all are -- or how much money the organizers are making from them, or not, the issue is if they're still valuable, and I can honestly tell you that I believe with all frankness that they are very valuable. Of course if your response is "you're biased" all I can do is assure you I'm being frank here, and then you can decide for yourself.
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I agree face to face is valuable, but not essential. A lot of people have never gone to a show but still do business with lots of other companies and they still make a lot of money. As companies are having to cut back with expenses shows are going to be one of the first things cut out. I am sure companies can easily drop 20K,30K or more on shows by the time they get a booth, set it up, get their promo materials together, fly in a staff and set them up in a hotel. I doubt they could do it bare bones for less than that. As affiliates and other adult industry people make less money they are also going to cut back, and going to shows for them is also going to be on top of the list.
I don't believe it's just been the dead weight that has been dropped from the shows and there is just as many *serious* people there doing business as before. While there is very likely a higher percentage of people there now serious and ready to do business, that total still has to be less than it was in the past.
Also, I don't need to take your word for it if you think they are valuable, I think the number of people getting booths there will tell you if it is valuable or not. If that number has been declining then obviously more and more companies are not seeing it as being that valuable, ie RIO isn't worth what they spending. If companies were doing really well going to shows then obviously they would keep coming back. So you tell me, has the number of booths each year been declining at shows? The answer to that question will tell you if they are being found to be valuable or not.
At the end of the day I feel like I am back in a thread about 2-3 years ago where I was saying that Tube Sites would be killing off TGPs. All of the TGP owners were saying, no way. Many of them thought tube sites would be fades, they couldn't make money they would just end up going out of business because the expenses would be a lot higher than there profit. They put their heads in the sand. They have lost and continue to lose a LOT of traffic while tube sites continue to dominate adult traffic. Sure tgp sites are still around and they can still make you some sales, but its not a fraction of what it use to be. Now here I am talking to people who own companies that rely on the adult industry doing well (as a whole) with lots of companies doing well and lots of webmasters / affiliates doing well and they are saying "no no, everything is going to fine, we will be fine".
