Anthony

So let me get this straight, if I"m asian, I should train kung fu?

What exactly do you mean man killing?

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just a punk

Yes it is. Is you an Asian, you can't (usually) depend on your muscular power (like Fedor Emilianinko), so you need something different.





It's much easier to learn how to kill a man without a weapon rather than to knock him down in a sport sparring.

For example, I'm not a black belt on karate, but I was learning on how to break a spine with minimum of effort, or kill an enemy with a digging tool or a drawbolt etc, when I was a student of a military chair in Russia.

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Anthony

You've never been in a fight in your life. How many spines have you broken in your lifetime? The whole "my martial art is too deadly" and "Sport fighting isn't" argument is flawed in the most basic way possible. I know I can knock someone out with a punch, I know I can break limbs, I know I can choke someone out, because a sporting environment allows me to test my skills in an alive manner against a fully resistant opponent.

You watch too much movies and believe to much bullshit. I'm going to have to put you under the same category as that doc fellow as deluded.

As for race mattering in fighting... I'm not even going to respond to that.

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Mohawk Steve

I agree 100%. If you had been a master of Kung Fu, you could have easily defeated Cory when you guys brawled at Man Party.

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just a punk

Not a sport at all:

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Anthony

Systema? That's like the new Krav Maga. Tae Kwon Do guys go take a 2 week certification to teach it.

Seriously, I'd like to know how many spines you've broken.

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Anthony

Cory is now boxing. And I'm going to spar with him this weekend! I know he wants payback.

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just a punk

You don't understand something. I never killed anyone. Here in my country it's almost impossible to prove it even if your opponent has a gun. As about fight, yes, I never been in a real fight in my live (I'm not talking about a usual street brawl). Fight is always means to kill. Thanks god, I never was involved into a REAL fight. As about a usual street brawl, I was grown in a very criminal block and I was need to beat faces and (of course) get my face beaten almost weekly. And one more thing, I was learning MA during a few years when I was younger.

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just a punk

Not it's not at all. It's "УНИБОС" something that Russian special forces learn. There are 3 different types of it: for police, special forces and for army. Difference very straight. Police system has a goal to immobilize, but military has to kill.

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Anthony

Ok, so you've never broken anyone's spine then? So, how do you know what you trained in, with a fully compliant training partner, works in real life with someone fighting back?

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just a punk

Yes I never did that. But I know how to do this, in a same way as I know how to stick a cleaning rod into an ear etc. This kind of "knowledge" can be trained only schematically on a real person. I believe you understand why.

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Anthony

No, I don't understand why because fighting is not the same thing as cleaning out your ear. If you've never broken anyone's spine in a real fight, then you don't know if it works or not.

In sport environment, you use techniques at 100%, against someone fighting back 100%. That's how you know if a martial art works.

That's why Judo when Kano created it beat every Jiu Jitsu school in Japan except one. That school trained in ground fighting (ne waza), which then became a part of Judo. And ultimately made it's way to Brazil and further evolved to BJJ.

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just a punk

Did you shot someone's head with a gun? I think no. But I believe you know it will work well. Right?

Furthermore, when I was younger I had a second place in contacting karate on regional level (something like as a state level in the USA). But I never considered it something really helpful on the streets. Sport is a sport, but real life is a real life.

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just a punk

Both times Fedor Emelianenko lose, he lose to Jiu Jitsu guys. FYI: Fedor has trained a combatant SAMBO which is based on Judo (a bit more brutal version of it).

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MaDalton

i would never do any sports where i have to cuddle with another guy. i'd rather learn how to keep a distance between them and me ;)

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Poindexterity

sounds like the decision is about what you want rather than which form is better.

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Anthony

I've shot at paper targets that look like someone's head at practice. But in the real world, they aren't standing still, and they are shooting back. Fail.

Point fighting Karate isn't fighting. It's touching someone lightly with your foot or hand.

You haven't a clue my friend, go train in a real martial art where they aren't fully compliant, and will fight back.

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Horny Joe

"I know Shaolin Kung fu" sounds WAY better than "I know Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu". You'll even have your own song.....



But, don't listen to me - I am fat!

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Anthony

Nothing wrong with that Stefan, but what happens when that guy decides he wants to grab you and you go to the ground. What now?

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LeRoy

I knew Anthony would bring this thread a couple pages.

I'll throw in my .02 here.

I'm into long forms so I would choose Kung Fu. IMO there's long forms in Kung Fu that can benefit my mind and body more.

If I need to kick someones ass by summer time. I'd take Jujitsu

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Anthony

Yes, I know Fedor has lost, twice now. And he lost to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guys.

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and MMA are sports btw. Do you think they wouldn't work in the real world?

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Joxxy

BJJ for great ground techniques, locks and chokes.
Wu-shu for forms, striking and fun with weapons.

just a punk

So knockouts and kicked out tooth don't cont? Personally I got 2 ribs broken (completely) on that competition. You call it touching? BTW, I was under 18 y.o. that time.

The last time I got my rib broken (it still hurts a lot) when we were boxing 3 weeks ago with my son (he's a 16 y.o. boy with brown belt on Aikido and serious background in kudo - a rather new but very interesting MMA)

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just a punk

Against a screwdriver or a brass knuckles? I don't think so.

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MaDalton

i'll bite his ankle

seriously - i worked out a very special technique over the last 39 years: i discuss my opponent to death.

that worked even in my times as bouncer. i have once knocked out some drunk nazi asshat but i surprised him and my first hit was also my last. thats my whole fighting history since 7th grade.

some people attract trouble, i don't.

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Anthony

My mistake, I assumed point fighting. So you knocked someone out, broke your ribs, and you think sports fighting isn't for the street?

But sports fighting isn't good for the streets? I don't get it, if all these things happened in a sports environment for you, what makes you think it's not applicable for the street?

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Anthony

What makes you think the BJJ guy doesn't have a screwdriver and brass knuckles? Anytime you see me in the real world, most likely I'll have a GLOCK on me. What's your point?

You really think your Systema, Krav Maga is going to do better?

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Anthony

I have to agree with that assessment. One of the nicest guys I know!

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just a punk

Yes it is. A friend of mine is a lucky bastard. He got his liver cut with the knife almost into two half. I believe he's the one of 100's who's got alive after that.

My son got his first knife hand injury when he was 12. Yes, the Aikido background has helped him that time, but I believe it was a kind of luck, and I don't want him to be in such a situation again.

Anthony, the real live is not a sport.

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just a punk

For the street? Yes of course! They don't care about kicking someone's balls, poked the eyeballs, smashing Adam's apple, using any hard item (e.g. keys) to break a temple or run away as fast as they can. Because the real goal on the streets is to SURVIVE. Anything else doesn't matter.

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Anthony

Look, I see you've changed this to now include weapons, and that's great, but it's another debate. It doesn't matter what martial art you train in, if the other guys has a knife, and you don't, you are going to get cut. Do you understand the term "Red Herring"?

It doesn't sound like you need to train in any martial art, it sounds more like you need to move.

At the end of the day, BJJ 4 times a week will get you in shape, it is bar none one of the most effective martial arts to train and know. Kung Fu is a joke, with the exception of SanDa fighting.

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just a punk

Jeet kune do too?

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Obey the Cowgod

Anthony

Are you familiar with the the body process called Adrenal Dump? And what your body does when faced with it? The goal of sport fighting is to use the most basic movements and large body muscles to win a fight.

Sport fight - 3 Five Minute Rounds, snap, nap, tap, or ktfo your opponent.

Street fight - Lasts less than a minute, hit hard, hit fast, and keep hitting till you win.

Who has a better chance winning. Me, who trains and spars in Muay Thai, BJJ, MMA? Or... say You who has trained in breaking someone's spine and Karate when you were 18? That would make you close to my age, with your kid, in your 40's?

Simple answer really.

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Anthony

JKD has integrated BJJ into their training. I wonder why?

I guess they were getting tired of loosing to Sport fighters.

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czarina

it depends on how agile you are with your legs. for BJJ you will need quadriceps like rocks

JustDaveXxx

This thread is funny.


Anthony would beat me. Why?? Because i know he carries a GLOCK. Plus he's Asian and Asians are good shots.


Trained with Danny Inosanto as a teen for 6 years learning JKD, then as an adult i had the Honer of Working with Danny Inosonto for 8 years, teaching him BJJ. That man is the real Deal on every level and at every Martial Art. He wore a white belt, blue belt, purple belt, brown belt, before attained his black in BJJ. He is a legit Black belt in BJJ. BJJ is and has been incorporated into JKD for some time. about 12+ years already.


Danny Inosanto would whoop Steven Segal today at about 70 years old. That is one bad dude!!

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Anthony

I've got sexy swimmer legs czarina. Just Dave on the other hand, has got legs like tree trunks and can do splits and straddles.

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Badmaash

Mr Miagee Kung Fu vs fat MMA fighter

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livexxx

I've been a black belt in Judo, (hasnt everyone?) got caught up in some triad wing chun school nonsense, then some bo-jitsu but found aikido the best for the I can beat you up, but also feel like I am doing it in a kung fu moviestar way. You know what I mean, if you really really wanted to learn "self defence" , just enroll as a bouncer in a bar. They have loads of openings they pretty much take anyone, and you can get to fight for real most evenings (venue dependant) but the rules are you cant really hurt them,(thank you cctv) but they can actually kill you if you let them. +1 adrenaline. That's called real training ;) however carried on with the aikido, got a 1st Kyu, stopped but then had to go back and carry on till I got the hammertime pants, result

Taught some crap aiki ninjitsu/taekwondo to the harlow police force.

But it wasnt until I saw a 14yr old girl with a naginta own some 3/4th/5th dan whatever kenjitsu guy that I realised that if you want to be good (ie alive) then you need a great big spear, just perhaps not too practical

P.S. with the police cadets, we used to do this great party piece. After some skill training for a few weeks, we had a compeition night and to start with we said who could run the fastest 200m. They did that up and down the gym, then as they crossed the finishing line we had them fight the juniors straignt away. Or as Kanetsuka Sensei once said, you fight, you shit runner.

livexxx

actually i just read some of the other posts on here, and when we taught "MA" as people are calling it, we taught it as an all encompassing technique. In the dojo, off the dojo, the whole lifestyle thing, the lot. It wasn't about defending yourself, your partners or your loved ones, it was about avoiding that at all costs. It means if you are living in some shitty situation that you need or have to learn "MA", then you are in the wrong place. This isnt feudal 15th century japan or china. "MA" , god I hate that, it is not about fighting, or being better than others or anything that has so much confliction in it, thats why it has the word ART in it . It's about skill and training and perfection, if you think it means save me from MY ABUSIVE BF or KILLER DRUG BLOCK, or whatever then you are so so wrong. You sort that crap out first and look after yourself and your family by changing your habitat or your lifestyle. Every single minute you waste by learning some "style" you should be devoting it to moving or changing your life, you do that before you waste your time learning some poncey smacky facey crap just because deep down you really just want to be Song Jiang or one of his stupid (dead) 36 friends (google time).
then once you become safely middle class, you can become bruce lee ;)

P.S can't belive that after 6 years of being here, i've made 25% of my all time posts in one night

d-null

great posts, thanks for those thoughts

CPA37710T

im a white belt on TKD wish me luck lol.. so far its pretty cool

pornmasta

your opinion on systema ?
Worth the time ?

(this is for self defence purpose)

Major (Tom)

all fights end on the ground. Krav is the best discipline to immobilize someone in a street fight situation.
just my 2
ds

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pornmasta

actually i found out that if you fall on the floor in a street fight on the asphalt, it's over for you.
But it seems more effective to project someone on the floor or locj someone's arm

There is a school of krav maga here, but they ask for your criminal records, while it is actually illegal to ask it. So it gives me a bad opinion of the school.
My problem with systema is that they play with knifes without safety glasses

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4hMHWE0-J2Q&feature=plcp

While it seems not really useful to take this kind of risk in training.
Also krav maga seems more to take care of safety...

(so for now, i do my own training :/ )

pornmasta

http://publicintelligence.net/ufouo-...-mcmap-manual/

not bad

ManicaMark

BJJ all day long man! Statistically over 70% of fights end up on the ground and without BJJ you are fucked! Just look at top mma fighters, they all NEED to have a solid background in BJJ or Greco wrestling.

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mynameisjim

The best training for self defense has to be some kind of striking. If you have experience striking you can end most fights almost before they start. I'm not familiar with kung fu training but if it involves footwork and striking/countering, it would be better than BJJ for basic self defense in a street fight. BJJ would be a better workout.

Yes, BJJ is better on the ground, but virtually every street fight starts off with both guys punching, then usually some grappling, then to the ground. So obviously being superior at striking will give you the option to win the fight the quickest. It makes sense that you would want to have the advantage as early as possible.

BJJ is a great skill, but it needs other skills to make it effective in a street fight. Striking can work pretty well by itself.

Now don't hate on me because I said striking skills are better than BJJ skills in a street fight. That's just based on the average street fight and someone asking what the best SINGLE skill would be to give them an advantage. Obviously BJJ is a great skill.

As for comparing it to MMA, there have been instances of MMA trained fighters getting into street fights, and almost all of those cases involve the MMA fighter using his striking to end the fight.

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TheSenator

BJJ brown belt here...

I visit many BJJ school in NJ to train.

Sometimes the class is no-gi, I pretend I am a noob, wearing Champion shorts and a plain white Hanes t-shirt. During class I just sit quietly and practice the moves being taught. I get tips on how to do the technique better from other students. After the techniques are taught then it is roll time.

Sweep, pressure pass, take back, RNC, tap...

X-guard sweep, stuck in the half opponents half-guard, trap arm for a kimura, tap....

berimbolo sweep, to the back, trap arm to arm bar, tap...

In a fight you should never underestimate your opponent.

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Robertwm

have to go there and there, and then select

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