MediaGuy

It just seems to me that the country that has been a bastion for freedom, intelligent culture and political advancement & potential has been backsliding to a dumber, darker version of itself...

Ever seen the movie Charly or read the booke Flowers For Algernon?

...

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Bill8

this article from madison says the republicans just tried to sneak in early and pass the bill before the session was to have officially started.

but, they got caught, and had to admit what they did was illegal, and their trickery has ended up benefiting the dems.

so. political trickery all around.

way more like this is coming. we all deferred taxes, we all let the infrastructure rot, we all will pay.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...cc4c002e0.html

Agent 488

it is idiots like you that are rushing the US into a corporate feudal system. congrats.

tony286

nope , I don't understand this I receive from the government that's ok but those other people that receive from the government that's wrong. Like the people that make their living on the internet and then say government does nothing for me. If it wasnt for gov funding for the creation of the net they would be working at radio shack.
I wish Barry would say you know the republicans are right we are cutting the budget by 50 percent. When middle class people would see how it directly effects them they would stop listening to millionaire pundits and stop voting against their own interests. People that bitch those government workers have benefits I don't have. They dont stop and fucking think. What do they have that I dont have anymore a union. Hmm maybe there was something to them. No more unions, workers are making shit and the ceo's now pay themselves 500x the avg worker and that's not when the job is shipped off to china.
Unions were killing employment, that was the line. Well there are very few unions left and I dont see the jobs coming back in boatloads. The middle class are played against each other and it sucks.

Vendzilla

What are you a moron? do you think that the unions should use the money they collect in massive donations to democrat agenda, thats what they do, weather the union members are democrat or republican, my biggest complaint while being a union member, have you ever had a union card, if not, you are talking out your ass!

Unions got great pay and benefits for the autoworkers, then opened the doors for free trade with NAFTA, where did the new cars start being made? The government had to bail out the automakers. It's a bad deal all around.

No one it taking away from the unions other than a budget cut to them, they shouldn't be exempt from the bad economy. Here in Northern California, they have already done some of these cuts, http://www.redding.com/news/2011/feb...o-pay-pension/

I ask you this

You are for big business and the rich to pay more taxes, you know that states that have a high tax rate , the business moves away, it's basic economics, California has been losing business for years because of it's high taxes and regulations. No Business, NO work, NO JOBS, less taxes from that employment, less money in the budget for those state employee's.

So how would you fix the budget?
Raise taxes in that state, driving out business that can do the same work for less in taxes in Nevada?
Or cut the budget, living within the means of the state?

I don't mind paying more taxes, "IF" the government is not wasting the money, and living beyond it's means is wasting it.

We had a balanced budget 10 years ago, Bush blew that up with the war and the homeland security and all that bullshit, so instead of whining about what Bush did, don't you think it's time to do something about it?
Barry had full control of the house and senate and during that time the unemployment rate stayed at above 9%, but spent his big fights on new entitlements, more spending, money we don't have and doing nothing about the trade problems.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Agent 488

yup. unionization levels are the lowest in the US of all first world countries and yet all the productive jobs are still overseas. funny that.

Sunny Day

Abe Lincoln - remember him?? Once jumped out a statehouse window to prevent a quorum.
Maybe if you read a little history, you'd quit being a dittohead.
As for unions, read about the autoworkers of the 30's. You lined up everyday, the supervisors picked and chose who to let work that day. Families were so desperate to eat, the wife would let the supervisor fuck her.
Unions saved this country from becoming communist in the 30's.
Henry Fucking Ford & 2 others tried a coup to throw out Roosevelt. But they asked Marine General Smedley Butler to do the military. He knew evil when he saw it. Only reason Ford avoiding prison was how rich & powerful he was. The movie Meet John Doe was based on that.

Sunny Day

From the Wisc State Journal
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...cc4c03286.html
Report: Public employees make less, including benefits, than private workers

I used to eat with a group of guys. One bitched daily about people on welfare. He had a farm on the govt. paid him to raise angora goats. Seems we needed angora for military winter gear 50 years ago.

Vendzilla

Hey shit for brains, he was known for it, it was before they had FILIBUSTERS, you know, the way they do NOW?
And don't tell me about union history, I have been in two different unions.
This isn't a history lesson, this is about a state government changing the negotiation

When unions started, they negotiated with company bosses, thats a good thing, but state unions negotiate with elected officials that have nothing to lose but votes.

And as for your article about union workers making less, I guess you can't read

That's all they are going after is the benefits, not the pay.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

Unions and NAFTA can't exsist in the same country making things that can be made in China, business will always go where it is cheaper, they are in it for the money.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

GregE

An old girlfriend of mine told me how her grandfather (a steelworker in Pittsburgh) spent six years in prison for putting a supervisor like that in a wheelchair.

Things are looking to to get pretty damn ugly in this country, and sooner rather than later, unless some real leadership materializes from somewhere.

Too bad we ran out of Abe Lincolns long, long ago

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PornMD

Phil? Phil Ibuster? I thought that was you! Ned! Rierson!

Filibuster.

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theking

The Governor wants to end collective bargining power (break the unions) of some employees...teachers union is one...and allow unions for others...so it involves more than just benefits. The unions are willing to negotiate but the republicans will not allow this and will not allow the Democrats to present amendments on the floor for discussion...thus the protests and the walk out of the assembly by the Dems.

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GregE

Forget about unions.

NAFTA can't exist in any first world country that wants to maintain a prosperous middle class.

Period.

This country and it's future was sold down the river by Bush senior and Clinton both.

And now we're fucked

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theking

I remember that President Clinton said that NAFTA...in the short term...would have negative effects...but would have positive effects in the long term. I never heard him specify what time frame he considered to be short term. It has been over 10 years and it has definitely had negative effects. I was opposed to it at the time as I could not understand how it could possibly ever have positive effects and I still do not understand how it could.

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Minte

By moving all the jobs to Mexico it was to keep the country from being overrun with illegal aliens.

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Vendzilla

I think government union jobs are the only place that collective bargaining like this even exists.

I know that's what the unions and the democrats are saying about ending it, but I heard the GOP saying it will end the union getting direct deposit of the dues the members pay and give the union members more rights when voting about money spent by the unions.

I also heard about teachers are not allowed to get time off for events like this, so there are doctors giving sick notes in the crowds. I've been thru a strike before, it's going to get nasty, but if the majority holds, then they are doing it for nothing, we'll see.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Agent 488

http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/cba/index.htm

you are one stupid mutha. your daughter must be proud.

Vendzilla

Because of NAFTA, Dodge trucks are assembled in Saltillo, Coahaila, Mexico. We ship them the jobs, they ship us the workers, great system!!!! LMAO

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

theking

It is primarily about breaking some of the unions...the way that I am understanding it some unions will still be allowed to have bargaining power. The Repubs will not allow any further discussion about the matter and are demanding a vote...which they will win...that is why the Dems walked out in hopes that the protests will...at the least...allow further discussions/amendments to be presented by the Dems.

The Governor said this morning that he is not going to bend and the Repubs in the assembly say they are not going to bend...if they toe that line...the Dems will have no other choice than to return and allow a vote...which the Repubs will win.

If you recall...since President Reagan broke the Air Controllers union...many unions have been broken. Few jobs are union any more...and many of those that are union are extremely weak and keep giving concession after concession because they are weak unions. There are only a handful of unions that are still strong...the Teamsters being one of them.

When I was young I belonged to the Laborers union and it was strong at the time but I do not know how strong it is now.

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Vendzilla

Do you even know what collective bargaining is?

The difference is that in the private sector, they are negotiating with the company.
In the public sector they are negotiating with the government.
When a company is having problems, they can use that to get the unions to re-negotiate the contract to help keep their jobs

But according you your ignore shit for brains mind, the government is not allowed to?

Local Paper plant, they re-negotiated the contract and took a cut in pay that kept the plant open for a couple more years.

Should I send you a copy of hooked on phonics to help you with this?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

Laborers union is ok on union job sites and highway projects, any federal jobs as well.
I've been in two unions, IUEC and Teamsters.
The unions are a great thing, but I don't agree with a lot of what they do. Like telling their members how to vote.
Air Controllers, I remember that, they didn't show up for work, they shouldn't be able to do that, when I worked under the IUEC, I couldn't even strike a job site, if we didn't show up for work, they found others to do it.
Collective bargaining is putting all the benefits and pay on the table at the same time, by eliminating most that, the unions will have to negotiate one item at a time, the unions prefer to do that all at once.
This does take away from the unions power, but the things they are talking about changing right now, the unions have already agreed to.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

theking

That is not what collective bargaining means...the collective are the members of the union...and each aspect of the union's demands upon the employer...is then bargained/negotiated. It is not presenting every demand as a package...with a take it or else...every aspect of the demands are negotiated individually.

The Governor and the Repubs want to end bargaining period. The state will dictate what workers make and what benefits they will be allowed...take it or leave it...the same as the majority of employers do.

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Sunny Day

They had filibusters as long as there have been legislatures.
Yeah, Reagan busted PATCO and we still have the same mess, air traffic controllers working too long hours and too few workers. Damn lucky we haven't had more crashes.
I was in a govt union. Only thing that saved us for being totally screwed.

Vendzilla

First filibuster was in 1851
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster

Lincoln made the jump while a member of the wig party in 1840

Funny thing was, he delayed the vote with 2 other wig party members by hiding in the back of the room to they could watch to make sure it worked, till they we're noticed and he jumped out the window

So do your research asshole

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

I was told that a collective of the people and the things negociated.

Here's what I found on what the state governor is asking

The proposal would limit collective bargaining to the issue of wages and cap increases to the rate of inflation, with a voter referendum needed for bigger increases.

It also would end government collection of union dues, allow workers to opt out of unions, and require unions to hold recertification votes every year. Walker said the alternative is to lay off more than 10,000 public employees.

Public sector workers are the backbone of the union movement in the United States.

Only 12 percent of U.S. workers were represented by unions in 2010, the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics says. While just 7 percent of private sector workers belonged to unions last year, 36 percent of public workers were organized, the bureau said.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

wig

I would never have predicted a thread like this. Hilarious.

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tony286

talking about unions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangl...t_Factory_fire
Next month will be the 100 yr anniversary, this was before they had those money hungry unions.

theking

That is pretty much is it...which is all designed to break the union's power to bargain...and at best make it a very weak union...or break it entirely.

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Minte

It was also before strictly enforced building codes,OSHA and the NLRB.

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potter

When you're a thick headed partisan like Vendzilla. He is the epitome of everything that is wrong with the country and everything that has gotten us where we are and of course everything that will keep us where we are.

Keep up your blind partisan bullshit Vendzilla! You're a hero to the politicians that are bringing this country down! Never stop watching FOX and spouting your hate!

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Bill8

quoted for truth. now we are fucked. this is just the beginning. prepare for civil war.

Vendzilla

Funny, I've said that I think they are getting too much in benefits and their own Unions have said they will give in on those concessions, I never said I was against the collective bargaining.

So where are my opinions different from yours?

A major problem with this country is that SHIT STAINS like you think they have the only answer and when a real debate comes up, you jump out the window so you don't have to debate.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

Working in construction in LA, Cal Osha was always checking our job sites, we were inspected by city and state inspectors on welds, safety, wiring. When the job was complete, they checked everything again to make sure it was all to code, it got even tougher if it was a hospital or a government building

Once I was in a man lift when the crane came around and hit the car, about the 25 floor, that will get your heart pumping.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

By giving the power to opt out of the union, I agree

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

directfiesta

I enjoy the name calling from Vendzilla .... mainly that he complained about being called names no later then last week .

Just plain funny ....

__________________
I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

Vendzilla

I'm not the one that starts calling names. Its weak minded poeple that have nothing else. So I give it back because that's all they deserve!

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Rochard

That seems to have worked well for us here in California, where you need to speak Spanish to order dinner.

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Sunny Day

you said you didn't started name calling??
Calling me "Shit for Brains" I DID NOT CALL YOU A NAME UNTIL YOU STARTED.
You said the Dems started filibustering. Then backtracted and said 1851.
As for Lincoln, the Wigs became the Republican party.
You change your tune when you get called out.
So how much do the Koch brothers pay you?

Sunny Day

You whine about building inspectors.
Why do we have building inspectors??
Because builders cheated and used bad materials. Did sloppy work. Buildings fall down. People get angry. Demand safe buildings. Therefore inspectors to make sure buildings built safe.
Hope you can understand these simple words from Shit For Brains

Tom_PM

No unions, no abortions, no gays, no single moms, no social security, no regulations on business and assault weapons for all. Yee haw.

Hell of an agenda for 2011, but there you go.

__________________
43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

Sunny Day

Left out half that DAMN liberal crap we need to get rid of, but you have it right. Tear up the Bill of Rights I say. Imprison every US Citizen until they can prove their loyalty. If you didn't donate at least $10,000 to Sarah Palin or Christine O'Donnell then you are against us.
Fuck 90% of America, as long as I get mine.

Sorry state of affairs as this is America today

Vendzilla

Thanx for proving my point shit for brains
Where was I whiny about inspectors?

The sky is not falling.
They aren't getting rid of the unions, they are opening it up for people to vote them out.
They aren't getting rid of abortions, just ending federal spending on it
I don't know of anywhere they are getting rid of Gays or Single moms, Social security has been taped into my both parties, Reagan was the last guy that did anything positive with it by raising the tax for it
Less regulations on business, even Obama in the SOTUA said he wanted to do away with a lot of them
Is the government going to make you buy an assault weapon? I already have mine!

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Tom_PM

Ending federal spending on abortion? There is no federal spending on abortion.

What you refer to as you may know is that federal money goes to Planned Parenthood, and as part of it's efforts to stem teen pregnancy, they speak about prevention (condoms and birth control) and adoption and the dreaded abortion word. Yes, they talk about all of those things, and that is intolerable to the right wing.

But thats not federal funding of abortion, it's only fed to the dumb masses as such to keep them riled up. We both know it.. everyone here on gfy knows it. It's a card that's been played completely out. The right is risking it's majority with this shit, but it seems irresistable to them. Such a waste of time and thats the only thing it accomplishes. Democrats would be wise to leave that bait sitting there and not even talk about it. By debating it they lose.

And the other things I listed.. all in good time. They may even throw in something about flag burning. Oh, and I forgot the "I" word.. (immigration). All on tap before the elections. Every old timey wedge issue they can dream up. We all know it's coming.

__________________
43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

_Richard_

heard the bush family was involved in that

Vendzilla

Planned Parenthood does do abortions, period and they get federal funding. I think they do a GREAT job. but a lot of people don't agree with abortion and it's both parties that are to fault for making it a big issue. They should do their abortions under a different name in a different building. What your saying is if a nursery for toddlers was selling crack in the back room it's ok, because of what they are doing in the front room. BTW, I'm pro-choice, although I wish they would use a condom.

Flag burning, cool, as long as they wrap themselves in the flag first, I mean if they are going to be passionate about it.

Immigration, there are gangs in several big cities that are comprised primarily of illegal aliens, it cost the US BILLIONS of dollars to pay for anchor babies, California, which is the biggest concentration of them is swimming in debt, we passed a law that took away their benefits for coming here, but one judge over turned it.
If they closed down the border, then the drug cartels would have their business shut down, end to all the violence in Mexico, or are you for the killings that are going on their?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Agent 488

save america. abort republicans.

Vendzilla

You think only people that think like you do should have a voice, what a fucking idiot!

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Tom_PM

On topic: the governor of wisconsin is doing this to bust a union and everyone knows it. End of thread for me, lol.

__________________
43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

Agent 488

makes it easier to arrive at a consensus? no?

don't hate the player, hate the game.