D

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Again... this post contains spoliers If you haven't watched the finale, and don't want it ruined, stop reading now.


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That said, I don't get it.

At the end... wasn't Nathan's apparant loss of life a big waste?

I mean, I understand his character had to be redeemed in a way... but - that aside - why did Peter need his brother's help to fly away? Doesn't Peter have the ability to fly himself?

And how was the fly-away option better than simply putting a bullet in Peter's head - which they could then retract and have Peter heal up and walk away from after the impending "meltdown" had passed? Why would Nathan sacrifice himself foolishly like that? Am I missing something?

The show has cheerleaders that are indestructable, ex-convicts that can walk through walls, politicians that can fly... and I didn't lose my suspension of disbelief until last night.

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PR_Sebas

I actually don't think Nathan is dead... everyone is saying that but why couldn't he just throw Peter in the air and fly away? As for the Claire shooting Peter I'm not sure why they didn't just do that. I'm confused about that too. Also, I don't think Peter can use 2 powers at once... That's why he couldn't fly away himself.

Positives from last night though...
- Sylar probably isn't dead.
- A new super villian is coming next year as per what Molly Walker said.
- WTF happenes to Hiro back in time, that was weird.

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DWB

Neither Peter or Nathan died. Nathan flew Peter up and let him go, flying away. Peter blew up but can also heal himself. The both live. Mark my words on this one.

Sylar crawled into the sewer, and the tracking device girl said there was a boogie man that was WORSE than Sylar. Perfect set up for season two.

Wizzo

But overall I was impressed with how they brought all the characters together in 1 place and closed off the season, I'm willing to bet the questions about Peter and Nathan will be answered 1st episode of next season...

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I love this show.

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gideongallery

well if he could only use one power at a time then getting a bullet in the brain while he was using the nuclear power would kill him.

however i don't think the second statement is true because he used the invisiblity when he got killed by skylar and he regenerated from death after he was killed.

if he had to switch powers he would not have been able to come back to life in that episode


What was weird was skylar was invisable, when did he kill Dr who to get that power

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StuartD

sylar was never invisible... he crawled into the sewer.

Anyway, I kept saying "Why doesn't Peter just fly off??" and then Nathan came in and did it for him. So yeah, I was confused by it all as well.

But yeah, I'm happy the whole bomb story is done with and we're moving on to volume two. This new bad guy sounds bad ass. I couldn't imagine them having some one who's even MORE dangerous than Sylar.

They're going to have a tough time making the next volume even better than the first, but if they do... it'll be awesome.

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gideongallery

when peter and claire's "dad" show up in the square
they talk about how he doesn't have places to hide
and peter says that he must be here just hidden and he suddenly appears behind the dad and telekentically pushes the dad into the wall.

that's when he was invisible.

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L0stMind

I love heroes but man, that ending confused the hell outta me.

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QuaWee

the show reminds me of Xmen with a blend of Lost. my sister seems to like it though

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Kevin Marx

What's to say that the villian that's worse isn't Sylar. If he's not dead, that's a pretty viable option.

Can't see Nathan being dead either.... that would be pretty weak to have him fly off to die for nothing. Make me feel like the end of the Abyss again with a WTF was that???

Molly knows there is someone worse......hmmmmmmmmmm..... here's a thought for you.. kinda return of the jedi, spiderman 3ish..... Peter absorbs powers whereas Sylar must kill the person to get their powers.... Was Peter close enough to Molly to get her gift??? She said that the worse guy could see her when she saw him. Maybe Peter goes bad for a while next season... the internal struggle of good vs. evil.

Hiro goes back in time to meet Kensei and learn from him. Pretty simple I think. His continuing journey. Anyone notice that Kensei was his dad (George Tekei)?

Perhaps Sylar does die because he doesn't have regenerative powers.... sword through the heart can do that to you. Wasn't that the whole point of this season? Save the cheerleader, save the world??? As long as he doesn't kill Claire, he can't regenerate. He probably keels over in episode one after meeting bad guy number two and imparting his evil wisdom to him.

BTW.. what's up with Grandma Petrelli??? How does she know about the powers.. just like Simone's father... Seemed like Linderman was the only one in on the gig, then all of the sudden, other people know.. Like Mr. Nakamura.... that group of people that used to do good... they talked about that a few episodes back. So I am thinking.. what's her powers.. what can she do?

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Spoff

I personally think the "More Powerful" then Sylar is the mother/grandmother. Both of her children and her husband have powers and she seems to be the grand marshal of the whole thing. To the little girl with the TRACKING power the mother/grandmother could seem scarier then Sylar.

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Jace

there is more to it than them just flying off together....they knew something more than anyone else did by going up into the sky

starpimps

please tell me why its "positive" that sylar isnt probably alive, i hate that flaming idiot

1) he is a loser
2) his face pisses me off
3) he doesnt have his own real power, he has to eat peoples brains
4) the writers let that idiot get away with just about anything
5) he is a mommas boy
6) his eyebrows piss me right off
8) the list goes on....

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Kevin Marx

yeah.. they knew that if Peter exploded inside the city it was fucked.....

Nathan's progression from selfish and egotistical to selfless.... pretty straightforward.

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Jace

um, i meant more to it than what we could see

have you not watched the show? I would have thought so from the response above, but you also just said that "what we see is what we get" with that response above

there is WAY more than what we saw going on there....think outside the box

Kevin Marx

I think you may be right..... she is a bit scary. But if she is the most powerful, why play games with Nathan.. why not just do her own thing?

But honestly.. they need a new character... They can't keep going with the same people... a new bad guy infuses life into it. Would be like Bauer on 24 fighting the same terrorist cell..... You need something new.

I was kind of disappointed that Claire's only heroism came early.. then her whole point in the show was to avoid Sylar. She effectively can't die and they have reduced her to being a scared little thing. Cry cry.. be sad... that's most of what she is now. Wonder what they will do with her.

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StuartD

I believe his power was in seeing, understanding and repairing how things work. He could just look at a watch and see all of it's inner workings and know how it worked and how to fix it.

Then when he looked at people, particularly those with powers, he understood how they worked, and how to take them apart, and fix it so that those powers could work in him.

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Kevin Marx

Not everything requires thinking outside the box.

You think all of the sudden Nathan had some epiphany about everything? Peter doesn't think that far ahead... the entire season he has been extremely reactive to everything... not pro-active at all (well.. not super pro-active... lets go with that. He has basically let everyone else do most of his thinking for him). For this episode, you can't all of the sudden have everyone realize who they are and what they are at the same time..... doesn't work that way.

Hiro finally understands who he is and what he must do. But still, his journey isn't over.

Peter realizes he can't control it. Claire can't shoot him. Nathan comes in like Superman to save the day. His act was to sacrifice himself.... rather than sacrifice the city. he put himself in front of his ambitions. The ultimate selfless act.... sacrifice yourself to save your friends. As old as time that one is.

No, I don't think they looked at each other and thought.. hey.. there is more to this. Do the writers have more to it.. sure.. but as far as the characters go.. no, I don't think so. Nathan was protecting everyone around him, including Peter (he doesn't have to feel so bad that he killed millions now, right? he can regenerate (if you can do such a thing when all your matter is blown to hell) and go forward being Peter.

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Kevin Marx

Your logic is slightly flawed, but then again, so is Sylar.

Yes he could see things and how they worked when he took them apart... hence, the cut open the brains deal.

Fixing things isn't his gig... he just takes them apart to understand them. His flaw is in using that for his betterment. His one attempt at redemption (when with his mother) failed.... that was his biggest turning point. He had no choice at that point but to continue down that path.

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Darkland

About Nathans death, and I am not saying the writers did kill him, but remember the episode that took place in the future? Nathan was dead or at least the assumption was put out there, so he wasn't the president, Sylar was using the ability to shapeshift to LOOK like Nathan. So it looks like to me that Nathan's death by the bomb may have been inevitable. Not everything has to change in the future because the bomb was stopped. Other timelines could still continue to exist. Possible proof of Sylar's future envolvement is his escape at the end of the episode. As far as Sylar being invisible, him popping up behind Bennett does not automatically mean he was invisible, they never showed that he was.

Also, Peter has clearly shown that there are only a few of his powers he is able to master, remember the invisible guy who was trying to teach him how but took off before he was really able to help? Maybe with the magnitude of power generated by the force building up inside him he was unable to control the power of flight, especially since he never really used it. He did once by accident but I dont recall him ever flying again. Peter was also present in the "Future" episode as was Nikki so we know that he is still possibly alive.

Hiro going back in time makes perfect sense, as far as storyline goes. They want to show us how all this started, how people started evolving into these "Heroes". Did you happen to notice the eclipse? Just like the opening title sequence. Did you happen to notice the symbol on the banner of Kensei? Just like Nikki's tattoo on her shoulder when she turns into Jessica. And it did look like Kensei was the same as Hiro's father. I wonder if this means he is the one who started it all or was the first. Being around that long would definitely account for his wealth and position in society. Hiro had to have gotten his abilities from some where and of all the people on that show, his powers are the most god like. Also, who is to say that the person who Molly sees is in fact Hiro's father. He never seems to travel, or we never see him in the process of it anyways. He just seems to pop up where ever his son happens to be or is needed. How does he know where he needs to be unless he already knows everything or is somehow able to view everything that is happening at any given moment. One thing is for sure, Hiro and his father are somehow the backbone of this entire thing.

There are definitely answers yet to be revealed and I guess we will have to wait till next season to find some of them out.

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StuartD

Yes but Sylar flew from the podium to go face Peter at the end in their big light show battle outside the closed door. He flew.
That means he had to of killed Nathan to take that power.

If Nathan died by explosion, Sylar couldn't take that power.


And Kevin, I didn't say that I knew for sure what Sylar's power was, or that it would make much sense... but just that it was how I have come to understand it given the infinitely tiny pieces of information to explain it. It was even said in this thread that he eats the brains, yet he never has any blood or anything around his mouth. People have to just assume that he does because... well, we're given diddly to work with.

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Kevin Marx

Sylar flying was in a future where he had killed Nathan and the bomb had destroyed NYC... it appears so far that the bomb doesn't destroy the city so that future would be gone.... a different path now. You may also remember that he shape shifted in that alternate future (to become Nathan), so we can assume he killed perhaps the hottie that kidnapped Micah which in last nights episode Nikki cold-cocked to the floor (or there's another shape-shifter we don't know of yet).

Hmmm... don't remember someone talking about the eating.. I will have to scroll back. I think it makes sense that Sylar gets the power in a similar way that Peter does, but he can't get it by being close to someone like Peter does. He actually has to open them up to get it.

Have any of you read about the spin-off they are doing for next year... Heroes:Origins. A way for them to introduce additional people without clogging the show up too much.

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Darkland

Why would you assume that it is that clear cut? NYC was the only place physically affected and of course the political powers created by the event. There are millions of people on the earth who would STILL go on to do the same things they would have done or turned into, whether NYC was destroyed or not.

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Kevin Marx

Ever heard of the Butterfly Effect? a butterfly flaps its wings and it creates a hurricane on the other side of the world?

Yes... a singular event has ramifications moreso than anyone would ever consider. You are close in your thoughts. People won't be guaranteed to do or turn into ... because an event did or didn't happen.... just most likely to.

If you have seen Back to the Future trilogy, it covers it quite well (although not as well as some books)... the smallest thing can change time. I read a book when I was in 4th grade... guy went back Dinosaur hunting... accidentally slipped of their hovering path... killed a moth... when he returned to his time... the whole world had changed completely.

So, not saying it is clear cut... saying that the premise they were working off of... Bomb goes off after the election (remember it was in the comic book and Isaac's paintings, right?).... didn't happen. They stopped that. It appears the catalyst for that change was Nathan removing Peter... .otherwise it would have moved forward as anticipated.

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TroubleTonya

I'm hooked on Heros!!!

I'm not sure if Nathan and Peter are really dead or not. Molly is a very interesting tracking device. Sylar is NOT dead- mark my words on that one. They show him having slid off into the sewers like the slime ball that he is.

The monster worse than the boogy man could very well be Claire's grandmother. She seems pretty evil and mean. I can see where she would like to use her son's as pawns to get what she wants. Her and Linderman had some kind of closeness/deal going. I think Hiro's dad is for the good otherwise, why would he have trained Hiro to kill Sylar?

I think they left everything just open ended enough for an amazing 2nd season. I'm waiting anxiously to see what they come up with.

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JamesK2

Well I think the point was that at that moment Peter couldn't control his powers and was about to explode. This is where Nathan came in and helped him fly up the sky and explode there.

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Jace

my point is, all they have to do in season 2 for nathan and peter NOT to die is flashback to a day previous and show peter and nathan talking to *INSERT NEW CHARACTER HERE* about some "crafty" way of them preventing the NYC bomb and both of them not dying

great thing about tv shows, you don't see everything that has been written yet, and with heroes, they can easily write in both characters not dying

on a side note...um..you are really into this show huh?

I thought I was a die hard fan, then you came along and made me look tiny...LOL

Darkland

Hardly. I am a big geek, I have probably studied more physics, quantum physics, string theory, space and time paradox theory than the average person. Cant help it, its in my family genes. At any rate, it is YOU who is close minded to the possibility of anything other than, they stopped it, so now no one has a set future. Even if we weren't talking about this show it is this simple:

We will take Hurrican Katrina for example, hell why not Sept. 11 for that matter. Those events were tragic and DID have a wide spread ripple effect across the country, even the world.

Now lets say, I am Joe Schmoe, living in Anytown, USA. Using whatever it is life dealt me in the way of my perception of my own reality around me, whether I am a HS dropout, abused as a child, poor or wealthy, etc. anything that makes me what I am today. All these factors ultimately determine what I will become. Say I like the aspects of becoming a lawyer or a serial killer or a doctor, doesnt matter what it is. I will become that thing regardless of small scale events around me, especially in this instant, whether those events happened or not. Could they affect my future choices, sure they can, but only insofar as whatever effects they may or may not have will be purely based on my original disposition.

So if I was leaning towards Law Enforcement or a Military career, Sept. 11 might bring me quicker to that goal, but even without that event happening it can be pretty much guaranteed I STILL would have become one of these two things. You can not have a future that isnt built on the past and present. Would you be a 100% different person just because a tragic event happened or didn't happen? Of course not, you would simply be the exact same person, and cataclysmic event not withstanding you will continue to be the same person, and continue to go on and do the things you are predisposed to.

If the writers choose to completely wipe the slate clean as far a future outcomes are concerned that is up to them, but in the eyes of logic I believe it would be a mistake to do so.

Every choice we make is the only choice we CAN make because all our choices are set in stone by our own personal life events and experiences. There is no middle ground and even spur of the moment choices are indicitive of the very being of what and who we are.

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Kevin Marx

No.. I wouldn't say a die-hard fan. I enjoy it yes, but I do some deep level Jack Handy kind of thoughts as part of who I am daily. My wife hates it. Says I over analyze everything. I told her my ultimate job would be to work as a consultant just doing "well have you thought about this" kind of things. A thorn in your side person. An anti- yes man.

I know they do the multiple-plots and timelines.. but if they pull a hey you didn't see the conversation they had the day before crap, I think it would be a bad move... along the lines of Dallas years ago... NO.. JR isn't dead... it was all a dream!!! (My mom loved that show). I really think Nathan showing up was part of his progression. Especially after the scene in the garage (wasn't that real time like 20 or 30 minutes before?.. however long it took for Peter to wake up and then get to the Plaza place).

I don't think they are dead by any means because obviously Peter is a popular character. Very important to the show. Nathan may become a support character or they may continue him along the political progression towards the presidency. A lot of this does have an X-Men feel to it though.. I think someone already said that.

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Kevin Marx

BTW I didn't say you were closed minded.. I said your thoughts were close.... different meaning.. you may have misread.

God I love a good debate.. thank you for being willing.

Me???? Closed minded???? well sometimes.. but not for this.

Ok.. lets use your scenario to prove my point. Law enforcement. You want it.. it's you... it makes you tick. You won't be complete without it.... so in jr high and high school.. these are your plans. nothing can stop you right? Are you telling me, that perhaps when you are 16, you get pulled over.. a cop treats you like shit.... pisses you off so bad that you never want anything to do with it again.. that doesn't affect you?

OK.. now let me change time. I stop the cop from affecting you. I wait until you are in college. I fix your grades in college so instead of an A you get a D in forensics. Devastates you. You drop it altogether. NO?? not enough yet?

Even worse.... You are married... driving home one night. I am a cop... driving drunk, crash into you.. kill your wife (god forbid... just an example here)... when it comes to trial.. not only do I not get punished, i get an insurance settlement as well (cops know people right?)... you say fuck the world, to hell with police work.. I wanna be a lawyer!!!

Life is fluid. A choice is not set in stone for that moment. We can choose path A or path B... or C,D E etc.. if they are available... and life goes on. We are all affected by what everyone else does also. Yes I am who I am not only because of my choices, but because of thousands of other people and what they do as well. My life is affected because the terrorists hit buildings in New York even though I live in Phoenix. They don't like America because of the choices you and I and millions of other westerners make. The debate could go on.. but yes, we all do affect each other.. and yes, our choices are open.. not fixed. If my choices were fixed and I had no other options.. it would be a very boring life indeed.

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Jace

I hadn't noticed

Kevin Marx

ur funny

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Darkland

Actually looks like we ARE closer to being on the same page, except for one thing and I will answer your questions. I too love a great debate as well, especially in these types of matters...
Yeah I misread that, sorry.

Of course it affects me and would become the turning point or life event/experience that sets me off on my course to becoming something else. And yes that person DID influence me but because of that event I move on towards my true self. I reference this above as well.

If I flunk out and never try again, moving on to what I might consider bigger and brighter horizons, this is in direct correlation to my disposition towards life. I was obviously never meant to enter Law Enforcement and therefore moved on towards my true self. Again.

Now THIS type of event is a deal breaker. I mentioned above about catacylsmic events? You nailed it right on. This is one such event that would truly have the potential for your future to become unknown or changed. It flys directly in the face of any life experience you have had up to that date and could possibly nullify them all creating a truly NEW direction and future outcomes.

I agree with you on this point whole heartedly and goes with what I was saying about life experiences eventually shaping us till the day we fall off this mortal coil. BUT, you knew there had to be a but and this leads back to our discussion of the Heroes plot. When we got a glimpse into the future and we got to see what effects the explosion caused, it was only 5 years into the future. So odds are, and this is definitely not an impossiblity, some of those characters we saw from the future could very well still follow the same path and end up in the same situations. The only difference is the explosion DIDNT happen. Do you not believe that this could be a possibility?

BTW, you should hit me up on ICQ, I study and like to debate this type of thing all the time, and there seems so few people interested in these types of things. 65-192-007

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uno

You guys are a bunch of

.

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Kevin Marx

thanks uno.. I like the guy on the right personally.

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Kevin Marx

Dark.. when you speak of possibilities... sure I absolutely agree with you there... when you speak of absolutes, that's where it doesn't work.. no guarantees..... I don't believe in pre-destination, or being pre-ordained, or pre-anything.... I grew up religious and now see things differently (probably a good thing, cause i don't think my pastor would agree with my current employment choice). If you believe that you have a specific purpose, job, life, existence, whatever, then your decisions will be biased towards that event, of course.

Mystery.. even if they have them planned for season 2.... I don't believe they have started shooting as of yet.. perhaps they have. I know for a fact that writers and producers scour boards like this (well maybe not this one) to see how fans react to things and re-write all the freakin time.

OK.. I am done.... no more of this thread for me.

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Jace

from imdb.com

chodadog

To those who are unsure of what Sylar's power is, think back to his job as a watch maker. He has the ability to quickly see how things work. He cuts heads open to look at the brain and see what it is that makes that person special, and he "learns" how to do it in that way. His power is intuitive aptitude.

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Chio

I agree about using two abilities.

I have a feeling Sylar was either rescued by the new villain or perhaps the new villain brought him down into the sewer to somehow absorb his powers.

Hiro going back in time was cool because it seemed (to me anyway) that him going back in time to his hero's (Kensai) time period made me think that he actually *is* his hero.
It would be a nice spin on that part of the story, if that's what happens anyway.

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Chio

Maybe Sylar did really die and didn't crawl into the sewer. Maybe his body was removed by the emergency people. The blood draining into the sewer could be symbolic of a bunch of things too. Or nothing LOL I have no idea. I do enjoy the show and I'm looking forward to the new season.

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Jace

wow, that is a great observation....damn you thinkers

maybe I need to smoke weed or something?

uno

I would choose him also.

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psbfo

Actually, Peter was killed while he was invisible. Sylar used telekinesis to throw a bunch of glass shards in the air, one of which embedded in the back of Peter's head, in the area of the brain that controls his powers. The cheerleader also had a tree branch go through the same part of her head... but in both cases, as soon as it was removed, they were able to heal themselves. It's also why Peter asks Claire to shoot him "In the back of the head... you know the spot."

Meeper

Ok so peter is definitely still alive, because he got Claire's ability. The only way that Nathan survived is if he managed to fly up high enough, let peter go, and fly away (which is very possible).

A lot of people are asking why peter didn't just fly up himself... despite the fact that he can use more than one power at a time (proven in 5 years gone invisibility and telekinesis) you have to remember his condition at the time. He said "i cant control it" basically because he was focusing all his energy on NOT blowing up. If he focused on flying, he would lose control and explode. I'm pretty sure that if Claire actually shot Peter in the head, than he would die, and not be able to regenerate. The only way they were able to recover from such a blow is when there was actually a piece of something (wood, glass, ext.) stuck there, which they could remove. I think the bullet would just totally destroy the brain, leaving him unable to recover (which is also why Linderman died and couldn't heal himself, which was also his power)

I cant decide if Sylar dragged himself to the sewer, or maybe if the new villain saved him. (just theories of course)

I think what would be cool is if in the next season, Peter and Sylar join forces to fight this new villain that was introduced, but i do like the theory brought up that maybe peter is the villain next season. Although he has been built up to be the guy with the biggest heart this whole season, so its probably unlikely.

What I want to know if is Parkman and DL survive, and if Hiro is actually Kensai, which would mean hes his own hero haha.

I love this show.

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Meeper

Well I know for a fact that he does not have that ability (proven in the episode where he kills peter, when peter turned invisible he said "I cant wait to try that one"), however he does have at least 2 abilities that have not yet been shared with us. If you remember when he was first introduced, he had already killed a few others before molly walkers dad.

Also, did anyone notice when they panned to the sewer cover, there was a cockroach next to it? I remember one being shown in another scene where he "disappeared". I wonder what the significance of that is.

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Jace

fallenmuffin

Amazing how many people watch Heroes and how few actually understand it.

Michaelious

Love the show, it's amazing!

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StuartD

And... I suppose you do.

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