Middle Class Shrinks to ALL-TIME LOW - GoFuckYourself.com

Barefootsies · 09-14-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

The Washington Post notes in an article entitled ?Census: Middle class shrinks to an all-time low?:

The vise on the middle class tightened last year, driving down its share of the income pie as the number of Americans in poverty leveled off and the most affluent households saw their portion grow, new census data released Wednesday showed.

***

For many economists, the most troubling statistics were those on income inequality underscoring the middle-class squeeze.
The 60 percent of households earning between roughly $20,000 and $101,000 collectively earned 46.6 of all income, a 1.5 percent drop. In 1990, they shared over 50 percent of income.
The Post also notes that inequality has actually risen post-recession:

?What?s disconcerting is that inequality is going up post-recession, and it?s happening because the top is starting to pull away again,? [Jane Waldfogel, a professor at Columbia University?s School of Social Work] said.
Bloomberg reports that income inequality has grown to the highest level since 1967:

The U.S. Census Bureau figures released yesterday underscored the struggles of American families in a sputtering economic recovery. The report also showed the income gap between rich and poor people grew to the widest in more than 40 years in 2011 as the poverty rate remained at almost a two-decade high.
In reality, inequality in America is the worst its been since 1917. Indeed, as we noted last year:

Inequality among Americas is worse than in Egypt, Tunisia or Yemen. As NPR notes, inequality is higher in the U.S. than in many banana republics in Latin America. And social mobility is lower in America than in most European countries (and see this, this and this).
It?s only gotten worse since then ?

The Weekly Standard points out that unemployment is also worse than during the recession:

According to figures released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), only 58.3 percent of Americans over the age of 16 are currently employed. That?s the lowest percentage in the past year?so things are getting worse, not better. But things haven?t just gotten worse over the past 12 months; they?ve also gotten worse since the recession ostensibly ended and the recovery ostensibly began.

In fact, for an amazing 38 consecutive months, the percentage of Americans who are employed has been lower than the percentage who were employed during the recession. According to the BLS, the low-water mark for employment during the recession was 59.4 percent, while the high-water mark for employment during the ?recovery? has been 59.3 percent. That?s right: When it comes to the percentage of Americans who are employed, every month of the ?recovery? has been worse than any month of the recession.
The economy cannot recover unless inequality is reduced, there is a healthy middle class and people have jobs.

We?re going in the wrong direction.

Postscript: This is not a partisan issue. The radical left and extreme right are both wrong about inequality.

SOURCE

Colmike9 · 09-14-2012, 11:18 AM

It's voting season..

'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics'
-Mark Twain

mce · 09-14-2012, 11:30 AM

That GW Bush still causing ish to go down

Colmike9 · 09-14-2012, 11:33 AM

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Originally Posted by mce

That GW Bush still causing ish to go down

J. Falcon · 09-14-2012, 11:43 AM

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Originally Posted by Colmike7

Tom_PM · 09-14-2012, 11:50 AM

But.. tax cuts..... job creators...

Captain Kawaii · 09-14-2012, 11:55 AM

It will shrink down to the capitalist sweet spot of about 5% of population.

DTK · 09-14-2012, 12:01 PM

It's been happening for nearly 40 years. Ever since Wall St & the Government shook hands and became partners.

Yeah, "trickle down" works

tony286 · 09-14-2012, 01:08 PM

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Originally Posted by DTK

It's been happening for nearly 40 years. Ever since Wall St & the Government shook hands and became partners.

Yeah, "trickle down" works

It started during Reagan.

DTK · 09-14-2012, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

It started during Reagan.

Actually a little earlier, but you could say say it really picked up steam in the '80s.

davethedope · 09-14-2012, 01:32 PM

A shrinking middleclass benefits the rich, the poor, and those who stay middleclass- so who gives a shit?

Robbie · 09-14-2012, 01:37 PM

Anyone who wants to get their income up to "middle class" should simply move to Chicago and become a teacher...looks like they average $71,000 a year (and went on strike for more) lol

tony286 · 09-14-2012, 01:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Robbie

Anyone who wants to get their income up to "middle class" should simply move to Chicago and become a teacher...looks like they average $71,000 a year (and went on strike for more) lol

That's not a lot for a Masters Degree. Want them to make min wage?

BareBacked · 09-14-2012, 02:05 PM

Middle class is $20,000 and $101,000 ?

Robbie · 09-14-2012, 02:34 PM

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Originally Posted by tony286

That's not a lot for a Masters Degree. Want them to make min wage?

Public school teachers have Masters Degrees? WTF????

You'd think the kids would be better educated if that's the case.

Robbie · 09-14-2012, 02:35 PM

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Originally Posted by BareBacked

Middle class is $20,000 and $101,000 ?

Yep, apparently a person making 2 grand a week is only "middle class"

When I was younger that would seem like a king's ransom to me.

TampaToker · 09-14-2012, 02:37 PM

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Originally Posted by Robbie

Public school teachers have Masters Degrees? WTF????

You'd think the kids would be better educated if that's the case.

Well not defending the teachers but these days parents need to play a large roll in education
and do not..

Rochard · 09-14-2012, 02:47 PM

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Originally Posted by Colmike7

It's voting season..

'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics'
-Mark Twain

I don't think it has anything to do with voting or the election season.

While it's easy to lie with stats, seems to me like we are just coming out of a huge recession - and the middle class is in fact shrinking. It's the simple fact that a lot of people lost jobs, and have been forced into less paying jobs.

Due · 09-14-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Anyone who wants to get their income up to "middle class" should simply move to Chicago and become a teacher...looks like they average $71,000 a year (and went on strike for more) lol

Interesting, I'll let people know about this.
When posting office admin job openings almost 50% of all applications is coming from teachers or people who in other ways worked with children's education.

Robbie · 09-14-2012, 02:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Rochard

While it's easy to lie with stats, seems to me like we are just coming out of a huge recession - and the middle class is in fact shrinking. It's the simple fact that a lot of people lost jobs, and have been forced into less paying jobs.

You probably hit the nail on the head.

- Jesus Christ - · 09-14-2012, 02:53 PM

Very simple.

Stop paying.

tony286 · 09-14-2012, 03:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Rochard

I don't think it has anything to do with voting or the election season.

While it's easy to lie with stats, seems to me like we are just coming out of a huge recession - and the middle class is in fact shrinking. It's the simple fact that a lot of people lost jobs, and have been forced into less paying jobs.

Its that and also wages have been flat since the 80's if it hadn't been for cheap credit. It gave feeling people were doing better than they really were.

tony286 · 09-14-2012, 03:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Robbie

Public school teachers have Masters Degrees? WTF????

You'd think the kids would be better educated if that's the case.

Lets see the first thing always cut is education. So you 40 to 50 kids in a classroom, most are latch key kids. Some of these schools dont even have libraries.
I always find it interesting its class warfare to say the rich should pay more in taxes but its not class war fare to attack teachers. People that go to school take on all kinds of debt to teach the children. Those same children the right are so afraid to leave them debt but a shitty education thats ok.
Also think about the monsters they have to deal with its not kids just waiting to be molded. Its like a prison guard with book in bad neighborhoods.

kane · 09-14-2012, 03:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Robbie

Public school teachers have Masters Degrees? WTF????

You'd think the kids would be better educated if that's the case.

What is amazing to me is the disparity of how teachers are educated. When I was in high school there were several teachers in my high school who had no degrees and had initially been hired to teach things like wood shop, metals shop, auto shop etc. Eventually they started picking up other classes. Our metals shop teacher taught a science class. The wood shop teacher taught a health class and the auto shop teacher eventually stopped teaching auto shop all together and taught economics. None of them had teaching degrees.

My cousin is a teacher with a masters degree who has also spent several of her summers taking classes and getting different certificates. A few years ago the school she worked for decided not to bring her back. They told her the new teacher had more certificates and a better education.

Pretty crazy.

Robbie · 09-14-2012, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Lets see the first thing always cut is education. So you 40 to 50 kids in a classroom, most are latch key kids. Some of these schools dont even have libraries.
I always find it interesting its class warfare to say the rich should pay more in taxes but its not class war fare to attack teachers. People that go to school take on all kinds of debt to teach the children. Those same children the right are so afraid to leave them debt but a shitty education thats ok.
Also think about the monsters they have to deal with its not kids just waiting to be molded. Its like a prison guard with book in bad neighborhoods.

Tony...watching the news about this the other day they said the AVERAGE school teacher in Chicago makes $71,000

I don't care what anybody says...that's one HELL of a nice paycheck for someone who works 9 months a year.

And when the schoolteachers are making more than the hardworking people paying taxes in Chicago to pay their salaries...it kinda pisses folks off when they go on strike in the middle of a terrible economy with high unemployment.

There's a reason that when FDR made unions legal...he purposefully stated that NO public sector jobs should ever be unionized because they are working for the taxpayer.

kane · 09-14-2012, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Lets see the first thing always cut is education. So you 40 to 50 kids in a classroom, most are latch key kids. Some of these schools dont even have libraries.
I always find it interesting its class warfare to say the rich should pay more in taxes but its not class war fare to attack teachers. People that go to school take on all kinds of debt to teach the children. Those same children the right are so afraid to leave them debt but a shitty education thats ok.
Also think about the monsters they have to deal with its not kids just waiting to be molded. Its like a prison guard with book in bad neighborhoods.

The problem with school budgets isn't the teachers wanting more money it is that they have become a haven for administrators who do nothing and get paid heavy.

When I was in high school (I graduated in 1989) my high school had about 600 students. We had one principle, two vice principles (because we had two different campuses) and a school board made up of about 5 people. There were also 4 guidance counselors.

That same school now has around 700 students. It still has 1 principal and 2 vps. It has 8 counselors, 9 board members, 2 "advisers," a dean of students and 2 "curriculum consultants."

I have friends that have kids that go to this school and nobody seems to know what half these people do, but most of them are paid $100K a year or very close to it.

This is just on the local level. If you move up to the district level it is full of people who seem to work about 10-15 hours a week and get paid north of $100K a year. It is crazy.

Robbie · 09-14-2012, 03:34 PM

kane, you hit the nail on the head.

Govt. bureaucracy wastes so much money.

kane · 09-14-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Tony...watching the news about this the other day they said the AVERAGE school teacher in Chicago makes $71,000

I don't care what anybody says...that's one HELL of a nice paycheck for someone who works 9 months a year.

And when the schoolteachers are making more than the hardworking people paying taxes in Chicago to pay their salaries...it kinda pisses folks off when they go on strike in the middle of a terrible economy with high unemployment.

There's a reason that when FDR made unions legal...he purposefully stated that NO public sector jobs should ever be unionized because they are working for the taxpayer.

Normally I do begrudge teachers going on strike because I think they have a very hard job and earn their money. Also, I feel if you pay more you will get more applicants and, hopefully, you can get better teachers.

But, as you say, when we are in the middle of a huge recession with millions of people out of work going on strike when you already make a pretty good living doesn't make people have a whole lot of sympathy for you.

kane · 09-14-2012, 03:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Robbie

kane, you hit the nail on the head.

Govt. bureaucracy wastes so much money.

I have long been a proponent of some kind of voucher system that would force the school system to be more like private schools. I understand that it is not just that simple, but it really looks like the school system has become one of those places where people just create jobs that aren't needed and never end and all it does it get more and more bloated and corrupt.

davethedope · 09-14-2012, 03:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Robbie

kane, you hit the nail on the head.

Govt. bureaucracy wastes so much money.

And yet you should be paid millions for taking pictures of some whore?

kane · 09-14-2012, 04:08 PM

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Originally Posted by davethedope

And yet you should be paid millions for taking pictures of some whore?

It is all relative.

A guy like LeBron James is paid millions of dollars to play basketball because he is good enough at it that people will pay hundreds of dollars for tickets to watch him play and people will tune in their TVs to watch him play. Nobody is going to be willing to pay to see me play basketball.

Brad Pitt makes a lot of money because he has a worldwide fan base and people are willing to pay to see his movies.

If I take naked pictures of a hot girl, make a site out of it and tens of thousands of people pay for access to that site, I do deserve to be paid like that because my work has drawn in a big audience.

davethedope · 09-14-2012, 04:53 PM

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Originally Posted by kane

It is all relative.

A guy like LeBron James is paid millions of dollars to play basketball because he is good enough at it that people will pay hundreds of dollars for tickets to watch him play and people will tune in their TVs to watch him play. Nobody is going to be willing to pay to see me play basketball.

Brad Pitt makes a lot of money because he has a worldwide fan base and people are willing to pay to see his movies.

If I take naked pictures of a hot girl, make a site out of it and tens of thousands of people pay for access to that site, I do deserve to be paid like that because my work has drawn in a big audience.

That's all well and good, but based on a (possibly corrupt) societal valuation.

What you and LeBron do really adds nothing of critical worth to society or its advancement.

On the other hand, teachers, in theory, should.

I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I just find Robbie's disdain for government spending funny.

Now, possibly those advisers and deans we were talking about are sitting on their ass all day not doing a damn, thing.

It's just as possible that those positions were created because they're needed.

Point is, government spending on education is crucial.

Teacher's shouldn't be millionaires, but where's the pork in education? It's hard to hide.

Robbie · 09-14-2012, 05:55 PM

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Originally Posted by davethedope

I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I just find Robbie's disdain for government spending funny.

I have a disdain for the govt. spending one more penny than is necessary to effectively do whichever particular task they are assigned to do.

flyfishing · 09-14-2012, 06:08 PM

Truer words have never been spoken.

kane · 09-14-2012, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davethedope

That's all well and good, but based on a (possibly corrupt) societal valuation.

What you and LeBron do really adds nothing of critical worth to society or its advancement.

You could certainly make the argument that we as a society would be no different without LeBron, or even the NBA, but I might argue that he provides entertainment which is something that has a strong intrinsic value to society. It helps us deal with stress, it is one of the main ways that we socialize and it can help us learn and build relationships.
On the other hand, teachers, in theory, should.

Quote:

I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I just find Robbie's disdain for government spending funny.

Now, possibly those advisers and deans we were talking about are sitting on their ass all day not doing a damn, thing.

It's just as possible that those positions were created because they're needed.

Point is, government spending on education is crucial.

I find it hard to believe that all of these extra people at my old school actually serve a function that adds value to the kids' education. I think it is like most government jobs, they bring someone on for one specific thing and they end up staying forever. Nobody ever seems to be let go.

Quote:

Teacher's shouldn't be millionaires, but where's the pork in education? It's hard to hide.

As for teachers being millionaires...why not? I can think of few jobs that are more important to society as a whole than educating our future generations. Think about it like this for a minute. If being a high school teacher paid $200K per year you would have a lot of people who would be going into the field. In theory this increased number of people wanting to be teachers would allow schools to be very choosy about who they hire. In essence they could pick the cream of the crop.

Socks · 09-14-2012, 06:26 PM

Did that guy really just call Robbie's wife a whore for no real reason with no prior argument? Just because he has different views on how much teachers get paid?

C'mon now.. What the fuck is wrong with this place?

Eric, Theo, that shit is out of bounds.

Socks · 09-14-2012, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

As for teachers being millionaires...why not? I can think of few jobs that are more important to society as a whole than educating our future generations. Think about it like this for a minute. If being a high school teacher paid $200K per year you would have a lot of people who would be going into the field. In theory this increased number of people wanting to be teachers would allow schools to be very choosy about who they hire. In essence they could pick the cream of the crop.

Have you been to a school recently? Other than pay, the other reason the education system doesn't attract good teachers is: Who the fuck wants to be treated like shit every day by a bunch of selfish know it all teenagers, with no real recourse?

The teachers don't do themselves any favours either making people think they're a bunch of low paid people just scraping by. None of the kids in high school think their lives will "turn out as bad as having to be a teacher" right? They think teaching is what you do when you fail at all the other, better jobs. The kids really do think their teachers are low paid losers.

I like the idea of a larger 2 tier school system. Good kids who do their work get to go to the good schools. The kids who don't, don't. They can work hard and move up. The only caveat is the selections have to be done either A> by a computer or B> blind evaluations with only ID's. That way there's no bias about who gets to go where, and it doesn't just get abused by the rich people.

If your kid is an idiot, he goes to idiot school. Nuff said.

DTK · 09-14-2012, 06:43 PM

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Originally Posted by davethedope

And yet you should be paid millions for taking pictures of some whore?

wow, you're all class

garce · 09-14-2012, 06:43 PM

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Originally Posted by BareBacked

Middle class is $20,000 and $101,000 ?

$20K is middle class? That has GOT to be way under the poverty line unless you live somewhere where the cost of the average home is under $60,000

WTF? $15,000 for a house in Detroit? A fucking house? A $67 per month mortgage? I would honestly be willing to get shot for that.

http://www.trulia.com/MI/Detroit,3823,Eliza_Howell/

Even better: A house with a tenant who pays $450 month is on sale for $3,500 dollars plus $5,500 in back taxes. WHY DOESN'T THE TENANT JUST BUY THE FUCKING HOUSE? The mortgage is $15 a month! http://investmentsforu.com/Liberal_St_8XWA.html

That's insane. I have friends who spend more on beater cars to drive over the winter months.

Maybe Detroit is a shitty place to live with a high crime rate and no jobs. I don't really know. Maybe properties in Detroit should be bought up by webmasters who are willing to turn the city into Porn Valley North.

I have no idea what this topic is about anymore.

garce · 09-14-2012, 06:46 PM

I hear that Detroit has a pretty good hockey and baseball team. Their basketball team sucks - no worse than the laughable Raptors, though - but the Lions are all right. Best of all - Windsor is only a few minutes away.

kane · 09-14-2012, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

Have you been to a school recently? Other than pay, the other reason the education system doesn't attract good teachers is: Who the fuck wants to be treated like shit every day by a bunch of selfish know it all teenagers, with no real recourse?

The teachers don't do themselves any favours either making people think they're a bunch of low paid people just scraping by. None of the kids in high school think their lives will "turn out as bad as having to be a teacher" right? They think teaching is what you do when you fail at all the other, better jobs. The kids really do think their teachers are low paid losers.

I like the idea of a larger 2 tier school system. Good kids who do their work get to go to the good schools. The kids who don't, don't. They can work hard and move up. The only caveat is the selections have to be done either A> by a computer or B> blind evaluations with only ID's. That way there's no bias about who gets to go where, and it doesn't just get abused by the rich people.

If your kid is an idiot, he goes to idiot school. Nuff said.

The kids are a big part of what is wrong with the system for sure. Here is a good example. When I was in high school we didn't have a school uniform, but there was a dress code. If you wore shorts they had to be low enough that they came to within 2 inches of your knees. No tank tops, no spaghetti tops or sleeveless shirts. Now girls dress like strippers and guys have their pants so low their entire asses are hanging out. When I asked a teacher why the school lets them dress that way I was told that they can't stop them. Too many parents complained that this was the style so the school had to give in.

The kids run the schools these days. Hell, my nephew literally failed every class his 8th grade year and the school told my brother that they wouldn't hold him back unless his parents instructed them to. He is my brother's step-son and his mom refused to hold him back so he moved on to high school where he was expelled at the start of his junior year. He failed half his classes his freshman and sophomore, but still allowed to finish up a few homework packets and graduate. He has a diploma in hand and is, honestly, sadly, a functioning illiterate. He reads and writes at about a 5th grade level.

Rochard · 09-14-2012, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Anyone who wants to get their income up to "middle class" should simply move to Chicago and become a teacher...looks like they average $71,000 a year (and went on strike for more) lol

Here my hometown a garbage man makes $75k a year.

They went on strike recently, all city employees did. The city - who is nearly bankrupt - wanted to cut their health benefits by 5%. The went on strike. The city turned around and outsourced all of the city functions. Opps.

Rochard · 09-15-2012, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

The kids are a big part of what is wrong with the system for sure. Here is a good example. When I was in high school we didn't have a school uniform, but there was a dress code. If you wore shorts they had to be low enough that they came to within 2 inches of your knees. No tank tops, no spaghetti tops or sleeveless shirts. Now girls dress like strippers and guys have their pants so low their entire asses are hanging out. When I asked a teacher why the school lets them dress that way I was told that they can't stop them. Too many parents complained that this was the style so the school had to give in.

The kids run the schools these days. Hell, my nephew literally failed every class his 8th grade year and the school told my brother that they wouldn't hold him back unless his parents instructed them to. He is my brother's step-son and his mom refused to hold him back so he moved on to high school where he was expelled at the start of his junior year. He failed half his classes his freshman and sophomore, but still allowed to finish up a few homework packets and graduate. He has a diploma in hand and is, honestly, sadly, a functioning illiterate. He reads and writes at about a 5th grade level.

This is not true at all. The kids do not run the school.

My kid's school doesn't have a uniform, but it surely has a dress code and it's well enforced. Tank tops, cut off sleeves, and no spaghetti straps. Spaghetti straps aren't even allowed at the dances. My was kid was sent home last year once because her shorts were "too short".

And somewhere along the line if someone's kid reads and writes at the 5th grade level and graduates from high school... This shouldn't be blamed on the teachers. Kids gets report cards sent home, parents should know what level they are reading at, as well as their STAR testing. If at some point in time a kid is below level, the parents need to do something about it. My kid was doing poor in math last year. It's not the teacher's fault - They teacher has twenty-four kids in her class and twenty-three of them are doing fine in math. We were told she was testing well below average in math and she was failing. We started paying more attention, helping her with her homework, making sure assignments were turned in, and this summer we bought her extra study material (books) and put her in tutoring. My kid just missed two weeks of school due to our vacation, took a math test that was covered when she was out on vacation, and got a perfect score.

While I'm ranting... We bitch about how we spend less and less on schools... Have you been to your kid's school recently? The blackboard has been replaced by a dry erase board, but otherwise it's the same - same desks, same books, same pencils, same silly stuff on the walls that we had when we were kids. But there's more - the overhead projector has been replaced with a digital camera that hangs above her desk so students can watch what the teach is doing... The teacher also has a laptop, a classroom computer, and remember that tall cart with the VCR and TV? That's been replaced by a DVD system with a wall mounted flat screen... Seems to me like they have it all now, yet oddly enough we blame everything on the schools and our teachers.

The problem isn't the schools or the teachers. It's the parents.

Captain Kawaii · 09-15-2012, 12:23 AM

I was driving past a high school in Torrance a couple days ago. With the wife. At first I thought it was a college/CC or something then I realized it was a high school. Girls were in hot pants, skin tight leggings and boobs hanging out with no bras. I almost had an accident.

Some gonna be some fine talent in a year or two... and in 5-10 years when Sodom and Gomorrah is really in full swing, will be a good place for picking up new models.

No wonder kids are failing and dropping out.

kane · 09-15-2012, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

This is not true at all. The kids do not run the school.

My kid's school doesn't have a uniform, but it surely has a dress code and it's well enforced. Tank tops, cut off sleeves, and no spaghetti straps. Spaghetti straps aren't even allowed at the dances. My was kid was sent home last year once because her shorts were "too short".

While I don't have kids many of my friends do and most of them have kids that are now in grades between 6th and high school. The grocery store I mostly go to is right next door to the high school. If you go over there at lunch time or after school the place is swarming with kids (as you would expect it to be) and it looks like a shift change at a strip club. A while back I saw a girl wearing white pants that were basically see-through. You could see her orange thong sticking up out the top of them and you could see right through them. She had a shirt on that was basically a short tank top that showed off her belly ring. She wasn't the only one. There is an endless parade of short shorts, skimpy tops, lowrise jeans and various other stripperwear. Maybe it isn't every high school, but this one clearly has no dress code or a very relaxed one.

Add in that a lot of the kids are just little disrespectful pricks. A friend of mine is a cop who has 2 daughters. One just got out of high school a year ago and the other is a sophomore now. Between being a parent and occasionally going to the school on calls he is around the kids a decent amount. Several times he has seen students tell teachers to go to hell and screw themselves. When asked why they take it the teachers just tell them that they choose what battles to fight.

If I told a teacher to go to hell I wouldn't be here typing this because my mom would have killed me and disposed of my body.

I'm not saying it is all kids. There are a lot of good kids, but it just seems like there is an overabundance of shit stains these days. . . but maybe it is just where I live.

Quote:

And somewhere along the line if someone's kid reads and writes at the 5th grade level and graduates from high school... This shouldn't be blamed on the teachers. Kids gets report cards sent home, parents should know what level they are reading at, as well as their STAR testing. If at some point in time a kid is below level, the parents need to do something about it. My kid was doing poor in math last year. It's not the teacher's fault - They teacher has twenty-four kids in her class and twenty-three of them are doing fine in math. We were told she was testing well below average in math and she was failing. We started paying more attention, helping her with her homework, making sure assignments were turned in, and this summer we bought her extra study material (books) and put her in tutoring. My kid just missed two weeks of school due to our vacation, took a math test that was covered when she was out on vacation, and got a perfect score.

You are correct that it is the parents problems. . . to a degree.

The problem with my nephew is his mom. She never EVER punishes him. He does what he wants, he says what he wants. He is a disrespectful little shithead and she goes to great ends to make excuses for him. He has been arrested several times and, like I say, failed all his 8th grade classes and eventually got expelled from high school. She refused to hold him back, because, well. . . she never stands up to him. She has done him a terrible disservice by teaching him that there are no consequences for his actions. Not too long ago he got arrested for breaking into a car. Now he is 18 so they held him for 4 days until he could get someone to bail him out. Since this is no longer juvenile he got real punishment. The judge gave him 6 months in jail on a 2 year suspended sentence. Basically if he can go 2 years without getting into trouble the charges will be dropped. If he gets in more trouble he will have to serve his 6 months. I am about 98% sure he will end up serving that 6 months.

So his mom failed him. However, at some point I think the school needs to step and say, "These are our standards. If you can't meet them you don't graduate and move on." That is how it was when I was in 8th grade. My brother failed 2 classes his 8th grade year and he had to go to summer school to make them up or he couldn't graduate and move on. My mom didn't have a say in the matter. When you are unlucky enough to have a shitty parent sometimes the system needs to step in on your behalf, but now the schools get paid based on graduation rates so they just move everyone along and let other people deal with them later.

Quote:

While I'm ranting... We bitch about how we spend less and less on schools... Have you been to your kid's school recently? The blackboard has been replaced by a dry erase board, but otherwise it's the same - same desks, same books, same pencils, same silly stuff on the walls that we had when we were kids. But there's more - the overhead projector has been replaced with a digital camera that hangs above her desk so students can watch what the teach is doing... The teacher also has a laptop, a classroom computer, and remember that tall cart with the VCR and TV? That's been replaced by a DVD system with a wall mounted flat screen... Seems to me like they have it all now, yet oddly enough we blame everything on the schools and our teachers.

The problem isn't the schools or the teachers. It's the parents.

There is a school in Philly (I think, but it my be Pittsburgh) where everything is digital. Instead of being issued text books the kids are issued laptops. All their books are on the computers. The teachers can drag and drop assignments and every night the school has at least one teacher available online for tutoring. They teach not only the fundamentals, but the teach the kids how to use the computer (if needed) and they have school uniforms. Everything is streamlined and students there do very well. If kids gets out of line the parents are immediately brought in on the discipline and then if the parents don't do anything about the kids are kicked out of the school. I will admit that the school requires kids to apply and interview to come there so, like private schools, they can cherry pick the best students, but I think the school really shows how they can match modern technology with a little old school discipline and come up with something good.

It isn't always how much money you spend, but how you spend that money that counts.

Rochard · 09-15-2012, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

A while back I saw a girl wearing white pants that were basically see-through. You could see her orange thong sticking up out the top of them and you could see right through them. She had a shirt on that was basically a short tank top that showed off her belly ring. She wasn't the only one. There is an endless parade of short shorts, skimpy tops, lowrise jeans and various other stripperwear.

And the problem is?

Kidding aside, sounds like a crappy school and a lack of parental supervision. Oh, I'm not kidding myself; I know my kid will be sneaking out clothes out of the house that I'm not aware of.

Honestly, tonight I went to the local high school for the football game - Friday Night Lights and all of that stuff. The dress code after school hours is relaxed and I did question some of what I saw. But I also think society has changed in a big way. I didn't see anything that was outrageous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

Add in that a lot of the kids are just little disrespectful pricks. A friend of mine is a cop who has 2 daughters. One just got out of high school a year ago and the other is a sophomore now. Between being a parent and occasionally going to the school on calls he is around the kids a decent amount. Several times he has seen students tell teachers to go to hell and screw themselves. When asked why they take it the teachers just tell them that they choose what battles to fight.

If I told a teacher to go to hell I wouldn't be here typing this because my mom would have killed me and disposed of my body.

Some kids will always be like that.

I'm was friends with a family that had three boys and one daughter. The parents seem really nice, mother weighs more than I do (and I'm overweight myself), but they don't pay any attention to what their kids are doing. All three boys are not yet legal drinking age and on probation. I'm not sure how a parent can fail to that degree.

We decided about a year go to keep our kid away from their kids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

You are correct that it is the parents problems. . . to a degree.

The problem with my nephew is his mom. She never EVER punishes him. He does what he wants, he says what he wants. He is a disrespectful little shithead and she goes to great ends to make excuses for him. He has been arrested several times and, like I say, failed all his 8th grade classes and eventually got expelled from high school. She refused to hold him back, because, well. . . she never stands up to him. She has done him a terrible disservice by teaching him that there are no consequences for his actions. Not too long ago he got arrested for breaking into a car. Now he is 18 so they held him for 4 days until he could get someone to bail him out. Since this is no longer juvenile he got real punishment. The judge gave him 6 months in jail on a 2 year suspended sentence. Basically if he can go 2 years without getting into trouble the charges will be dropped. If he gets in more trouble he will have to serve his 6 months. I am about 98% sure he will end up serving that 6 months.

So his mom failed him. However, at some point I think the school needs to step and say, "These are our standards. If you can't meet them you don't graduate and move on." That is how it was when I was in 8th grade. My brother failed 2 classes his 8th grade year and he had to go to summer school to make them up or he couldn't graduate and move on. My mom didn't have a say in the matter. When you are unlucky enough to have a shitty parent sometimes the system needs to step in on your behalf, but now the schools get paid based on graduation rates so they just move everyone along and let other people deal with them later.

I've never punished my kid. It's not difficult - teach your kid to be respectful and how to have fun doing it. If your driving and swearing at all of the crappy drivers, well, your kids picks up on that. Instead be calm and point out what the other driver is doing wrong and hope your kid picks up on that also. If my kid ever steps out of line I'm not afraid to raise my voice, although I never ever get angry.

I take it back - i have grounded my kid... for bad grades last year.

And I'm not sure I'm not the perfect parent either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

There is a school in Philly (I think, but it my be Pittsburgh) where everything is digital. Instead of being issued text books the kids are issued laptops. All their books are on the computers. The teachers can drag and drop assignments and every night the school has at least one teacher available online for tutoring. They teach not only the fundamentals, but the teach the kids how to use the computer (if needed) and they have school uniforms. Everything is streamlined and students there do very well. If kids gets out of line the parents are immediately brought in on the discipline and then if the parents don't do anything about the kids are kicked out of the school. I will admit that the school requires kids to apply and interview to come there so, like private schools, they can cherry pick the best students, but I think the school really shows how they can match modern technology with a little old school discipline and come up with something good.

It isn't always how much money you spend, but how you spend that money that counts.

My kid's school isn't all digital, but there has been some discussion about it at the high school level - which is (gasp!) a year and a half away. However, they do have a computer lab and do a lot on computers.

Bat_Man · 09-15-2012, 01:55 AM

I think being middle class is the curse that to be bear for whole life.....all problems is first tasted by the middle class people....

kane · 09-15-2012, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

And the problem is?

Kidding aside, sounds like a crappy school and a lack of parental supervision. Oh, I'm not kidding myself; I know my kid will be sneaking out clothes out of the house that I'm not aware of.

Honestly, tonight I went to the local high school for the football game - Friday Night Lights and all of that stuff. The dress code after school hours is relaxed and I did question some of what I saw. But I also think society has changed in a big way. I didn't see anything that was outrageous.

Some kids will always be like that.

I'm was friends with a family that had three boys and one daughter. The parents seem really nice, mother weighs more than I do (and I'm overweight myself), but they don't pay any attention to what their kids are doing. All three boys are not yet legal drinking age and on probation. I'm not sure how a parent can fail to that degree.

We decided about a year go to keep our kid away from their kids.

I've never punished my kid. It's not difficult - teach your kid to be respectful and how to have fun doing it. If your driving and swearing at all of the crappy drivers, well, your kids picks up on that. Instead be calm and point out what the other driver is doing wrong and hope your kid picks up on that also. If my kid ever steps out of line I'm not afraid to raise my voice, although I never ever get angry.

I take it back - i have grounded my kid... for bad grades last year.

And I'm not sure I'm not the perfect parent either.

My kid's school isn't all digital, but there has been some discussion about it at the high school level - which is (gasp!) a year and a half away. However, they do have a computer lab and do a lot on computers.

As far as dress stuff goes. I don't really care what they wear. I'm sure our parents thought some of the stuff we wore was obscene, but to me it is kind of a symptom of a larger problem, or at least one of many symptoms.

I have friends who rarely punish their kids and when they do it is pretty lightly and yet they have great kids that do well in school, are respectful etc. For me it is about communication. If your kid screws up and you sit them down and explain to them why what they did was wrong and why they shouldn't be doing that, it can go a long ways with them.

My brother's soon to be ex-wife, and I'm sure many other parents, don't do that though. Instead of explaining why he are wrong when he screws up, my nephew's mom works hard to come up with excuses for why it isn't her son's fault and that he is really the victim here.

Mutt · 09-15-2012, 03:59 AM

the middle class shouldn't be so worried about the super rich - they've always existed and always will. most normal people don't even dream of being that rich and don't care.

it's the public sector workers getting paid fat paychecks and moreso fat pensions and always asking for more that should piss them off.

small businessman, whether he/she runs a sandwich shop, carpet cleaning, sells insurance, whatever - that person risks his own money to start his business, pays rent, pays for equipment, pays some employees, works his ass off, small business owners typically take NO vacations until years into a small business when it's successful. If that person works their ass off they will make the 70K per year the garbageman makes, the school nurse makes, the teacher makes, guys in trade unions make, middle management types working for the federal and state goverment - teachers put in 3 years of undergraduate school and one year of teachers college, wow what a huge undertaking that is, takes a real genius and so much work to make it through that. the small businessman has to pay for his own retirement - the only upside for the small businessman is the chance his business takes off and he makes $200,000 or $2,000,000 a year. I don't have stats but I bet just as many of those small businessmen go bankrupt as those who make it big.

Somebody posted an article here not that long ago about state employed California beach lifeguards - retiring in their 40's with $800,000 pensions! That's the middle class's tax money funding those pensions.

A good teacher is worth 70K a year or more - 75% of them aren't good teachers, they do the minimum, inspire nobody, make an upper middle class income with job security and have a nice pension waiting for them at retirement.

the basics of our economy are fucked up and you can't blame one party for it, the world has changed and adapting to it is hard - so people lash out at the rich for causing all the problems when the rich are only a small part of it. Stop running out and buying iPhones that are manufactured overseas, stop shopping at Walmart and support the small businesses in your cities, stop buying BMW's and Audis .................. of course the middle class is shrinking - the jobs that have replaced the well paid manufacturing jobs of yesteryear are low paying service jobs.

DudeRick · 09-15-2012, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

It started during Reagan.

Regan was in the 80's you moron! The biggest decline of the middle class has occurred since the start of Obama's trickle up poverty economic policies!

09-14-2012, 11:18 AM	#2
Colmike9 (>^_^)b Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 7,223	It's voting season.. 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics' -Mark Twain __________________ Join the BEST cam affiliate program on the internet! I've referred over $1.7mil in spending this past year, you should join in. I make a lot more money in the medical field in a lab now, fuck you guys. Don't ask me to come back, but do join Chaturbate in my sig, it still makes bank without me touching shit for years..

09-14-2012, 11:30 AM	#3
mce Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: All Over Posts: 3,917	That GW Bush still causing ish to go down __________________ Pay Virtual Assistants Based on RESULTS instead of TIME STOP getting FUCKED IN THE ASS by your VA

09-14-2012, 11:50 AM	#6
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	But.. tax cuts..... job creators... __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

09-14-2012, 12:01 PM	#8
DTK Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The 510 Posts: 4,545	It's been happening for nearly 40 years. Ever since Wall St & the Government shook hands and became partners. Yeah, "trickle down" works __________________ Arguing whether the Democratic or Republican party is better is like debating which steaming pile of shit is slightly less stinky.

09-14-2012, 01:37 PM	#12
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	Anyone who wants to get their income up to "middle class" should simply move to Chicago and become a teacher...looks like they average $71,000 a year (and went on strike for more) lol __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

09-14-2012, 11:55 AM	#7
Captain Kawaii So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 6,748	It will shrink down to the capitalist sweet spot of about 5% of population.

09-14-2012, 01:32 PM	#11
davethedope Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 532	A shrinking middleclass benefits the rich, the poor, and those who stay middleclass- so who gives a shit?

09-14-2012, 02:05 PM	#14
BareBacked Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: www.BareBacked.com Posts: 3,685	Middle class is $20,000 and $101,000 ? __________________ NEW SITE PAYING $30 for a $1 TRIAL Selfies

09-14-2012, 02:53 PM	#21
- Jesus Christ - Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: ::::::::::::: :::::::::::\|\|::::::::::: :::::::::::\|\|::::::::::: :::::::::::\|\|::::::::::: :::::::::::\|\|::::::::::: :::::::::::\|\|::::::::::: ::::::\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|:::::: :::::::::::\|\|::::::::::: :::::::::::\|\|::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::: Posts: 7,197	Very simple. Stop paying. __________________ Amen

09-14-2012, 03:34 PM	#27
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	kane, you hit the nail on the head. Govt. bureaucracy wastes so much money. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

09-14-2012, 06:08 PM	#34
flyfishing Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 51	Truer words have never been spoken.

09-14-2012, 06:26 PM	#36
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,475	Did that guy really just call Robbie's wife a whore for no real reason with no prior argument? Just because he has different views on how much teachers get paid? C'mon now.. What the fuck is wrong with this place? Eric, Theo, that shit is out of bounds.

09-14-2012, 06:46 PM	#40
garce Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,103	I hear that Detroit has a pretty good hockey and baseball team. Their basketball team sucks - no worse than the laughable Raptors, though - but the Lions are all right. Best of all - Windsor is only a few minutes away.

09-15-2012, 12:23 AM	#44
Captain Kawaii So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 6,748	I was driving past a high school in Torrance a couple days ago. With the wife. At first I thought it was a college/CC or something then I realized it was a high school. Girls were in hot pants, skin tight leggings and boobs hanging out with no bras. I almost had an accident. Some gonna be some fine talent in a year or two... and in 5-10 years when Sodom and Gomorrah is really in full swing, will be a good place for picking up new models. No wonder kids are failing and dropping out.

09-15-2012, 01:55 AM	#47
Bat_Man Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 421	I think being middle class is the curse that to be bear for whole life.....all problems is first tasted by the middle class people.... __________________ Content lock your adult sites with BLAM ADS

09-15-2012, 03:59 AM	#49
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	the middle class shouldn't be so worried about the super rich - they've always existed and always will. most normal people don't even dream of being that rich and don't care. it's the public sector workers getting paid fat paychecks and moreso fat pensions and always asking for more that should piss them off. small businessman, whether he/she runs a sandwich shop, carpet cleaning, sells insurance, whatever - that person risks his own money to start his business, pays rent, pays for equipment, pays some employees, works his ass off, small business owners typically take NO vacations until years into a small business when it's successful. If that person works their ass off they will make the 70K per year the garbageman makes, the school nurse makes, the teacher makes, guys in trade unions make, middle management types working for the federal and state goverment - teachers put in 3 years of undergraduate school and one year of teachers college, wow what a huge undertaking that is, takes a real genius and so much work to make it through that. the small businessman has to pay for his own retirement - the only upside for the small businessman is the chance his business takes off and he makes $200,000 or $2,000,000 a year. I don't have stats but I bet just as many of those small businessmen go bankrupt as those who make it big. Somebody posted an article here not that long ago about state employed California beach lifeguards - retiring in their 40's with $800,000 pensions! That's the middle class's tax money funding those pensions. A good teacher is worth 70K a year or more - 75% of them aren't good teachers, they do the minimum, inspire nobody, make an upper middle class income with job security and have a nice pension waiting for them at retirement. the basics of our economy are fucked up and you can't blame one party for it, the world has changed and adapting to it is hard - so people lash out at the rich for causing all the problems when the rich are only a small part of it. Stop running out and buying iPhones that are manufactured overseas, stop shopping at Walmart and support the small businesses in your cities, stop buying BMW's and Audis .................. of course the middle class is shrinking - the jobs that have replaced the well paid manufacturing jobs of yesteryear are low paying service jobs. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly! Last edited by Mutt; 09-15-2012 at 04:04 AM..