So compared to 2008 what is the status of the Adult Industry?

[nick3131]

I've been told it's almost dead. That there are almost no webmasters left.

That the affiliate is a dying breed.

Is all this true?

GFY is definitely not quite as active anymore. Some other forums have completely bit the bullet. Good one's too. Will not name them here out of respect for this forum.

What about conversions? I remember they plummeted in 2008, right before I left. Are they still as bad as they were during the financial crisis?

[Penny24Seven]

Only the good affiliates are around and make money.
Ionly have two that send traffic and they both do very well. Then I have about sixty that combine for 300 hits a week LOL.

[nick3131]

Originally Posted by Brian837

Only the good affiliates are around and make money.
Ionly have two that send traffic and they both do very well. Then I have about sixty that combine for 300 hits a week LOL.

Yeah it's the 80/20 rule. All the big program owners always talk about it.

[BlackCrayon]

heh, i thought it was dead before 2008. even in 2004 it wasn't like it used to be.

[nick3131]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

heh, i thought it was dead before 2008. even in 2004 it wasn't like it used to be.

2004 everyone said that it was a lot better in the 1990s.

But there was still tons of affiliates.

2008 I left so I don't really know.

[chaze]

We still have the same guys making money. I think it just goes up and down. We still need to ban free tube sites though. People just won't pay anymore unless it's a niche or something special.

[AmeliaG]

Most importantly, the trend is in the right direction now and it sure as heck was not in 2008. But, yeah, way fewer affiliates. Makes it hard to justify going to some of the shows, especially for a niche player. Only I really really really like going to shows.

[Manfap]

When I got into Adult in 1999, I was told it was over already.

[Klen]

As i am in industry 8 years,i would dare to say how nothing changed to affiliates except new google regulations which fucked up most of affiliates,since now is much harder to get se traffic.While paysite ratios went to shitter in most cases,there is also much new products which can be promoted,and before there was no mobile traffic.So the old rule still apply-if you have traffic,you make money,no matter what.

[GonZo]

Right here bitch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivgvdtR3Bh0

[Metalwarrior]

traffic = money. There's always shit people will buy

[signupdamnit]

Executive summary from the affiliate perspective:

For the average affiliate who did mainly pay sites in 2008 versus now I would guesstimate that revenues are currently between 20-40% of what they used to be in 2008. This means for every $1000 affiliates used to make in 2008 they now make between $200-$400. Determining metrics and factors include increased ratios, difficulty in getting quality traffic, falling CTR%, and sponsors going out of business or no longer paying affiliates [resulting in a loss of affiliate revenue]. The top three reasons for this change are the availability of free content, piracy, and changes in Google ranking factors which favor pirate sites over affiliate sites.

The affiliate pay site market is hurting badly and many of us feel it is no longer worth it. Some claim there are a few sites which convert fairly well for them. The whole question then becomes whether you can find matching quality traffic.

Dating and cams are still relatively strong. For example with some filtering my dating conversion ratio today is better than it was in 2008. But the whole question here becomes whether or not you can get traffic. For the most part the old ways no longer work. You need new methods. Often affiliates are moving into the blackhat realm to compete.

[PR_Glen]

Still people making money as always Nick, definitely some thinning out of the heard going around though, no doubt about that.

Originally Posted by chaze

We still have the same guys making money. I think it just goes up and down. We still need to ban free tube sites though. People just won't pay anymore unless it's a niche or something special.

If your hopes lie in banning free tubes and you are under the impression there isn't money to be made in the current market then you need to step back and re-evaluate your business...

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Executive summary from the affiliate perspective:

For the average affiliate who did mainly pay sites in 2008 versus now I would guesstimate that revenues are currently between 20-40% of what they used to be in 2008. This means for every $1000 affiliates used to make in 2008 they now make between $200-$400. Determining metrics and factors include increased ratios, difficulty in getting quality traffic, falling CTR%, and sponsors going out of business or no longer paying affiliates [resulting in a loss of affiliate revenue]. The top three reasons for this change are the availability of free content, piracy, and changes in Google ranking factors which favor pirate sites over affiliate sites.

The affiliate pay site market is hurting badly and many of us feel it is no longer worth it. Some claim there are a few sites which convert fairly well for them. The whole question then becomes whether you can find matching quality traffic.

Dating and cams are still relatively strong. For example with some filtering my dating conversion ratio today is better than it was in 2008. But the whole question here becomes whether or not you can get traffic. For the most part the old ways no longer work. You need new methods. Often affiliates are moving into the blackhat realm to compete.

don't worry, not going to rip you, but that first paragraph is all made up numbers by you and worthless info. If you remove your opinions and speculation you aren't too far off with some of this though.

[Rochard]

The industry had a great leveling. It was very easy to make money in 2008 and prior; In fact everyone was making fistfuls of dollars. When the economy fell through times got tough. Most of us are back to where we were prior to the drop, but we have to think smarter these days.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Rochard

. . . Most of us are back to where we were prior to the drop, but we have to think smarter these days.

And work harder

[Paul]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

The top three reasons for this change are the availability of free content, piracy, and changes in Google ranking factors which favor pirate sites over affiliate sites.

1) Global Recession

We've just experienced a global recession that's lasted over half a decade, we've not had a recession this severe in living memory. That's the number one thing that's impacted consumer spending, the internet is 5 years older and consumers are 5 years wiser.

The credit binge that allowed everyone in the west to live above their means is nothing but a distant memory and a new reality set in very quickly around 2009/2010 once most people realised they'd have to cut their cloth accordingly and start living within their means again.

Consumers think and research a lot more before they make purchases online now compared to 5 years ago.

2) Social Media

There was also the rise of social media, that's had a massive impact on porn because it's knocked porn off it's purch as the top internet activity and number 1 reason to have an internet connection.

3) The Rise Of Tablets & Smartphones

This is really where adult has been left in the dust compared to mainstream, mobile and tablet traffic has been increasing dramatically over the past few years. Mobile & Tablet traffic is set to overtake desktop traffic in 2014, give it another 5 years and it'll make up the majority of internet traffic (if some new technology hasn't taken hold by then)

I test a lot of competitors tubes, paysites etc on the main tablets and smartphones and I'm absolutely amazed by the amount of companies (still in business) who haven't even bothered to code or optimise their websites for tablets and smartphones. It's truly unbelievable, this is 2014 not 2008!

4) The Rise Of The App

This is completely changing the way the next generation use the internet and it's making a lot of developers very rich. The mobile app market could be worth as much as $25 billion by next year

If you have a good, original idea or even an improvement on an existing app that's where to focus your energy over the next couple of years because this is a major growth industry and if you happen to create a popular app you're going to do very well and it's the best platform to see explosive traffic growth in a short space of time.

5) Piracy

To be perfectly honest piracy isn't even in my top 5 but since I've only scraped the surface of this topic I just wanted to make the point that yes Piracy has had an impact but there are so many other factors that have had a much bigger impact in the last 5 years. Youtube was a game changer for online digital content, it was inevitable that digital content would have less value as broadband speeds improved, bandwidth dropped in price and the barrier to produce content decreased.

The facts are, you take Youtube, xHamster, Pornhub or whoever and you remove all the piracy and these companies are still going to own most of the traffic. I go to YouTube and I can pick any topic under the sun and there are many independent content producer creating fantastic content in HD that they are offering to the world for free to view, they make some money through advertising if they are popular.

With the porn tubes even if all the piracy disappeared overnight you'd still have all the amateurs, couples, swingers who upload their content for fun. You'd have a lot of the webcam performers who would upload content to build their fanbase and you'd still have 100s and 100s of adult companies that will upload their content to the adult tubes daily.

So in a nutshell nothing changes!

You can't turn back the clock, you need to adapt to the new reality and stop complaining about things you have no control over

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Paul

You can't turn back the clock, you need to adapt to the new reality and stop complaining about things you have no control over

Good post actually although I disagree with the order of responsibility. But tell me this. Why is it every time I post something about piracy, even when asked, someone comes on and tells me that I need to adapt and "quit complaining" ?

I don't know how much more I could adapt when I haven't put up a pay site link as an affiliate in years. Most of my adult income is in dating. I HAVE adapted. I HAD to. That is the whole point. I'm not complaining. I'm telling the guy how it is as he asked.

People talk of the recession and I agree that it makes a difference but near the very day of the bankruptcy and collapse in September 2008 I had some of my best sales with pay sites. I found a site which I was able to sell like crazy at 1:200 with great volume. While the world was collapsing and people were all scared I was banking. Maybe I just got lucky but it makes me believe that the difference between now versus then is the expectation to not have to pay. Back then the surfers didn't expect to be able to get it free so they paid. Now....good luck!

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

don't worry, not going to rip you, but that first paragraph is all made up numbers by you and worthless info. If you remove your opinions and speculation you aren't too far off with some of this though.

Well that is kind of what "guesstimate" means.

[Markul]

Some will say it's dead (like the guy above me) and some will say it's not. But regardless it is still a billion dollar industry - but you have those that either can figure out how to make money and those who cannot.

Oh and since I started this in 2007, people have been saying it's dead..... doesn't look dead from my perspective.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Good post actually although I disagree with the order of responsibility. But tell me this. Why is it every time I post something about piracy, even when asked, someone comes on and tells me that I need to adapt and "quit complaining" ?

It's mainly because you come across as a broken record and saying it over and over again isn't going to change anything. A lot of posters on this forum seem to have this deep rooted denial about how this business has changed and there is this incessant finger pointing of blame at others.

I know it's not nice to hear but it's always good business to put your competitors out of business.

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I don't know how much more I could adapt when I haven't put up a pay site link as an affiliate in years. Most of my adult income is in dating. I HAVE adapted. I HAD to. That is the whole point. I'm not complaining. I'm telling the guy how it is as he asked.

Congrats, good for you. Focus on the positives and how you can use that to your advantage to make more money.

I feel there is so much opportunity to make money on the internet in so many different areas that it's just frustrating to hear the same things over and over every day on this forum. You may not think you are complaining but trust me it definitely comes across as complaining and ranting about the same thing

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

People talk of the recession and I agree that it makes a difference but near the very day of the bankruptcy and collapse in September 2008 I had some of my best sales with pay sites. I found a site which I was able to sell like crazy at 1:200 with great volume. While the world was collapsing and people were all scared I was banking. Maybe I just got lucky but it makes me believe that the difference between now versus then is the expectation to not have to pay. Back then the surfers didn't expect to be able to get it free so they paid. Now....good luck!

To be fair, the shit didn't really hit the fan until September/October 2008. That's when the shadow banking system started to unravel and I started buying gold as fast as I could because I thought we where witnessing a repeat of 1929. What happened in 2008 took a couple of years for the full implications to be felt in the economy, most people where still in denial in 2008 about what was happening.

I remember pleading with a friend to sell his house and even take 5% or 10% less than asking price, he wouldn't listen. Now he's in serious negative equity, could have sold the house in 08 and bought it back in 2013 with cash. Wouldn't listen to reason

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Well that is kind of what "guesstimate" means.

With all due respect the point he is making is you can't possibly say anything with any authority if it's based on guess work or assumptions. The same way the only people who really know how much the major tubes are earning, are the major tubes.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

.So the old rule still apply-if you have traffic,you make money,no matter what.

Originally Posted by Metalwarrior

traffic = money. There's always shit people will buy

if only Paul Markham was here to tell you how wrong you are...

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Markul

Some will say it's dead (like the guy above me) and some will say it's not. But regardless it is still a billion dollar industry - but you have those that either can figure out how to make money and those who cannot.

Oh and since I started this in 2007, people have been saying it's dead..... doesn't look dead from my perspective.

Another important point that should be mentioned is we "may" be starting to see light at the end of the tunnel concerning the economy. If we're on the road to recovery, anyone who has weathered the storm is going to be sitting pretty in the years ahead as we return to economic growth and consumers start loosening the purse strings again as they start to feel more prosperous.

Back in 2007 apart from Nouriel Roubini and a few other economists, no one was even talking about recession nevermind a severe global recession. Now 5 or 6 years later, because so many people have become accustomed to the gloom they have forgotten the boom times.

[dehash]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

if only Paul Markham was here to tell you how wrong you are...

Can you please tell it to us since he is not here?

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Paul

It's mainly because you come across as a broken record and saying it over and over again isn't going to change anything. A lot of posters on this forum seem to have this deep rooted denial about how this business has changed and there is this incessant finger pointing of blame at others.

I know it's not nice to hear but it's always good business to put your competitors out of business.



Congrats, good for you. Focus on the positives and how you can use that to your advantage to make more money.

I feel there is so much opportunity to make money on the internet in so many different areas that it's just frustrating to hear the same things over and over every day on this forum. You may not think you are complaining but trust me it definitely comes across as complaining and ranting about the same thing



To be fair, the shit didn't really hit the fan until September/October 2008. That's when the shadow banking system started to unravel and I started buying gold as fast as I could because I thought we where witnessing a repeat of 1929. What happened in 2008 took a couple of years for the full implications to be felt in the economy, most people where still in denial in 2008 about what was happening.

I remember pleading with a friend to sell his house and even take 5% or 10% less than asking price, he wouldn't listen. Now he's in serious negative equity, could have sold the house in 08 and bought it back in 2013 with cash. Wouldn't listen to reason



With all due respect the point he is making is you can't possibly say anything with any authority if it's based on guess work or assumptions. The same way the only people who really know how much the major tubes are earning, are the major tubes.

It's not really complaining as much as it is just answering the question or stating what really happened. I think the problem is more that some people just don't want to hear it. Especially people involved with tubes or people with affiliate programs. I mean here someone is trying to get a newbie to devote 100 hours of their life this month to send their sponsor program 4,000 clicks and I'm telling their potential newbie "Hey! You'll be lucky to make $20 from that 100 hours of work! Maybe you want to try something else instead? Everyone expects it for free now!"

I know I must seem like an ass to the guy who has his own hosted tube business or to the struggling paysite owner who wants affiliates. I regret that and I'm not purposely trying to destroy anyone's business but I'd feel like even more of an ass if I didn't tell the truth. Maybe the guy asking is strugglign and trying to figure out how to put food on his family's table next month? I'm not going to bullshit and talk about how I do 1:7 with all the paysites I promote and I live like a fucking rockstar.

Ever since I've been here in 2007 I've had people telling me to shut up and not talk about things. I've had people insult me, mock me, tell me I'm wrong about the tubes or what is going to happen in the industry because of it. But the funny (or not so funny) thing is what I said would happen largely did happen. It's the same old, same old to me. Like I said if you don't like my posts, see the sig.

Without Sales they were nothing.....
https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=810284

I'm not an ass. I'm just telling the truth.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by dehash

Can you please tell it to us since he is not here?

i thought everyone in adult knew by now that traffic is easy and that content is king

[Paul]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i thought everyone in adult knew by now that traffic is easy and that content is king

[dehash]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i thought everyone in adult knew by now that traffic is easy and that content is king

You can have good content, but who is going to buy it if there no traffic? I just believe if I have traffic I can do whatever I want - sell, send it to a program with good content. Looks like I am missing something.

[OldJeff]

Originally Posted by Squirtit

And work harder

Incorrect, there is nothing hard about this work, work smarter, maybe a little longer, but harder ?, only thing I can think of that is easier work would be getting paid to fuck, but alas, I am old, ugly, fat, and have a short dick.

[OldJeff]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i thought everyone in adult knew by now that traffic is easy and that content is king

hahahahahahahahahahahahah

He doth quote the Master

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by dehash

You can have good content, but who is going to buy it if there no traffic? I just believe if I have traffic I can do whatever I want - sell, send it to a program with good content. Looks like I am missing something.

yes - what you miss is the irony/humor in here

even if i am a content producer: if you offered me 5 million uniques per day i'd take that in a heartbeat

[fuzebox]

The ridiculous concept of someone being able to make a living "submitting galleries" to someone else's site or build a bunch of randon nonsensical blogs with a few badly written entries and thumbs linking a paysite are dying fast.

However, just like in every other online vertical, anyone that can figure out how to generate traffic and send it to an offer will get paid.

[SykkBoy]

Here are a couple things that "mainstream" is doing that adult has dropped the ball on, not fully realized, etc.:

gamification
apps (not just mobile, but web apps too)
responsive tours
social media-esque tours
social media (some companies are doing well here and others have all but ignored it)
mobile/tablet/smartphone optimized (goes hand in hand with responsive designs in some cases)

edited to add:
affiliates could do some of this as well, not just paysite owners

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by OldJeff

Incorrect, there is nothing hard about this work, work smarter, maybe a little longer, but harder ?, only thing I can think of that is easier work would be getting paid to fuck, but alas, I am old, ugly, fat, and have a short dick.

I always liked that saying "work smarter not harder"

That being said the actual amount of labor just to have the same presence you had 5 years ago has increased dramatically. Like Skyboy pointed out so well:

gamification
apps (not just mobile, but web apps too)
responsive tours
social media-esque tours
social media (some companies are doing well here and others have all but ignored it)
mobile/tablet/smartphone optimized (goes hand in hand with responsive designs in some cases)

We're all still making money, it's just not as easy as it was before, it's harder, more labor intensive, and more expensive

[Why]

Originally Posted by OldJeff

Incorrect, there is nothing hard about this work, work smarter, maybe a little longer, but harder ?, only thing I can think of that is easier work would be getting paid to fuck, but alas, I am old, ugly, fat, and have a short dick.

I am sure there is a niche for that.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Why

I am sure there is a niche for that.

There is , the site is The Great Canadian Male http://www.xtube.com/watch.php?v=N8seZ-G470-

And he actually has some pretty good looking guys on there. Good for him! Only image I could get real quick. Back to work for me! :D

[ctggls]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

The ridiculous concept of someone being able to make a living "submitting galleries" to someone else's site or build a bunch of randon nonsensical blogs with a few badly written entries and thumbs linking a paysite are dying fast.

However, just like in every other online vertical, anyone that can figure out how to generate traffic and send it to an offer will get paid.

Damn true! Is not as easy as submitting galleries but if you get the traffic money will come

[nick3131]

This turned out to be a GREAT THREAD.... Although it seems to me like the biz is mostly dead lol. Except for Dating and Cams... Wait thats just like it was in 2008.

[nick3131]

Originally Posted by Paul

1) Global Recession

We've just experienced a global recession that's lasted over half a decade, we've not had a recession this severe in living memory. That's the number one thing that's impacted consumer spending, the internet is 5 years older and consumers are 5 years wiser.

The credit binge that allowed everyone in the west to live above their means is nothing but a distant memory and a new reality set in very quickly around 2009/2010 once most people realised they'd have to cut their cloth accordingly and start living within their means again.

Consumers think and research a lot more before they make purchases online now compared to 5 years ago.

2) Social Media

There was also the rise of social media, that's had a massive impact on porn because it's knocked porn off it's purch as the top internet activity and number 1 reason to have an internet connection.

3) The Rise Of Tablets & Smartphones

This is really where adult has been left in the dust compared to mainstream, mobile and tablet traffic has been increasing dramatically over the past few years. Mobile & Tablet traffic is set to overtake desktop traffic in 2014, give it another 5 years and it'll make up the majority of internet traffic (if some new technology hasn't taken hold by then)

I test a lot of competitors tubes, paysites etc on the main tablets and smartphones and I'm absolutely amazed by the amount of companies (still in business) who haven't even bothered to code or optimise their websites for tablets and smartphones. It's truly unbelievable, this is 2014 not 2008!

4) The Rise Of The App

This is completely changing the way the next generation use the internet and it's making a lot of developers very rich. The mobile app market could be worth as much as $25 billion by next year

If you have a good, original idea or even an improvement on an existing app that's where to focus your energy over the next couple of years because this is a major growth industry and if you happen to create a popular app you're going to do very well and it's the best platform to see explosive traffic growth in a short space of time.

5) Piracy

To be perfectly honest piracy isn't even in my top 5 but since I've only scraped the surface of this topic I just wanted to make the point that yes Piracy has had an impact but there are so many other factors that have had a much bigger impact in the last 5 years. Youtube was a game changer for online digital content, it was inevitable that digital content would have less value as broadband speeds improved, bandwidth dropped in price and the barrier to produce content decreased.

The facts are, you take Youtube, xHamster, Pornhub or whoever and you remove all the piracy and these companies are still going to own most of the traffic. I go to YouTube and I can pick any topic under the sun and there are many independent content producer creating fantastic content in HD that they are offering to the world for free to view, they make some money through advertising if they are popular.

With the porn tubes even if all the piracy disappeared overnight you'd still have all the amateurs, couples, swingers who upload their content for fun. You'd have a lot of the webcam performers who would upload content to build their fanbase and you'd still have 100s and 100s of adult companies that will upload their content to the adult tubes daily.

So in a nutshell nothing changes!

You can't turn back the clock, you need to adapt to the new reality and stop complaining about things you have no control over

This is a fantastic post.

[CPA-Rush]

i'm afraid the dream of becoming rich via adult is fading . at the moment i only think of these cams girls & how i can send them customers that able to feed them

[Jel]

Originally Posted by OldJeff

Incorrect, there is nothing hard about this work, work smarter, maybe a little longer, but harder ?, only thing I can think of that is easier work would be getting paid to fuck, but alas, I am old, ugly, fat, and have a short dick.

mate, you aren't old

[john1975]

Originally Posted by nick3131

I've been told it's almost dead. That there are almost no webmasters left.

Is all this true?

[ExcellentNudes]

Three Things:

1. The "old timers" on the internet, love to talk about how the internet is dead, dying, not as good as it was in 2008, 2001, or 1996. It's not dying, the business models keep changing.

2. Apps for smartphones and tablets won't work, because the app stores ban adult content.

3. Affiliates and independents need to upgrade their technology. The PHP driven thumb site doesn't work anymore. Webmasters and adult website designers need to start optimizing for monitors, tablets, and mobile screen sizes. You can mimic the look and feel of an app through single page application sites and single page interface sites that mimic the app experience but come from a URL and not from an App store. It's just a matter of knowing how to deploy code that is optimized to the user's device, which means adult site developers need to switch over to HTML5 combined with either node.js or Ruby on Rails.

[adultmobile]

Originally Posted by ExcellentNudes

1. The "old timers" on the internet, love to talk about how the internet is dead, dying, not as good as it was in 2008, 2001, or 1996. It's not dying, the business models keep changing.

Just a note: not all the old timers are writing this. If you see who runs the most up-to-date or profitable adult sites, this is old timers mostly, rarely new timers. Who complaints more it is who joined adult in 2008 or later, learned the old way just a moment before it was no more the way to do. If a guy it was around in 1996, be sure in 2008 already adapted 2 or 3 times (dialers anyone?) so could adapt further. Guys are tested at first adaptation, not at 2nd or 3rd or n-th.

[tiramisu]

Most people here are narrow minded...
if u wanna make money, and keep making more dough, then treat this as a business not a fucking hobby.

[makeabuck]

We experienced no financial crises, business has grown since 2008 for me. I can't speak on the rest of the adult industry. This will be my 15th year in business.

[NemesisEnforcer]

Originally Posted by tiramisu

... treat this as a business not a fucking hobby.

QTF

[seeandsee]

i think that started affs are much harder to make payouts, but still there is money to be made!

[The Porn Nerd]

Everything is fine, move along....

[Nomarh]

see sig......