American illusion called FREEDOM
 

What is freedom?

It's just a word used by media, politicians and other people who want to influence masses.

Well I gotta couple of questions

a. Why do American consider themselves to be any more free than other Western people?

I think I'm extremely free here in Finland, even more free than I would be in most of the states in USA. I have nearly perfect freedom as long as I don't hurt other people.
Freedom of speech? Fuck, in Japan they allow simulated rape porn clips, in some states in the USA even a goddamn blowjob is illegal.

b. Why does US government say that it's defending the freedom of American people when it goes to war?

Tell me, exactly, how do small arab/whatever countries threaten your PERSONAL freedom? We can't be so mislead that we think that a guy like Osama could take away the freedom of the whole American nation, can we? Yes, you could claim that two planes hitting twin towers took away the freedom of the people who died, but why does it have to be a foreign threat when it is considered a threat to freedom? Crime and drugs kill more people than any fucking terrorist ever will, but domestic issues like these are not threats to freedom.

"Freedom" is the system in which people spend dollars, yenis, euros, marks. And that is what actually must be defended. Using the word "freedom" instead of "free market" just sounds better to an uneducated Joe. To Average Joe freedom equals being able to flip the channels on TV and watch the commercials of a Japanese or Arab owned company.

Land of the free indeed

This is the new US constitution:

http://www.genesis.net.au/~bible/bible.gif

mika hakkinen-
that's possibly the dumbest post I've read in weeks!
you don't have a clue.

When you make a post like that, no one will argue with what you actually said, or answer your questions.

They will just hit you over the head with their flags. :)

then o wise man, please educate me and answer a) and b). I bet no-one actually will.

mainly bars at usa close at 8 pm.. :1orglaugh
how can u say it is freedom?

I wouldn't trade my American freedom for your Finnish Freedom for all the clogs in your god forsakin country

2 a.m. in most places 4 a.m. in others

America is a work in progress. Always changing...hopefully for the better.

I will.

Because we've been straight up kickin' ass and takin' no shit for over 200 years. And if someone threatens that, they can count on a thorough bitch-slappin' as well. You, on the other hand, are a sheep. Bleet for me oh sheepy one. Bleet.

Keep in mind the very reason we exist and are here today. In a nutshell, we got sick and fucking tired of living under someone's thumb. When we came here, started our OWN country to get away from it, they tried to extend that thumb. And they got beat down like a punk bitch. So yeah.... when some asshole like Hussein starts trying to build nukes for his own crazed obsession with ruling the world.... it's time to saddle up and smoke some more ass. And if you really need to ask why, then you have much deeper problems than I thought. :)

i agree with mika
americans are thinking that they are living in well world, but it isn't that.

First, that would be Holland.
Second, if you are gonna try and argue that your country is better than another, you should at the very least know where it is.

Congrats on helping the stereotype of stupid American along its natural course.

Wow. News flash.. I think England has been independent and taking no shit since .. ehh... over a thousand years?
Just one example. There are dozens of others

As far as Saddam is concernced; if you, Amp, consider him a threat to your freedom you are seriously overestimating him

Are you kidding mika? England is our main bitch.

word!

Really? Where is this? Most people don't go to bars until after 10-12. Are you telling me that they all sit on the back stoop?

I am not aware that we do.

I suspect, without actually knowing it to be fact, that some things that are legal in the US are not legal in Finland. Unless you have at your finger tips all laws in existence in both countries, you cannot factually deny, what is my suspicion.

Freedom and national interest, while technically having different meanings, are often used interchangably.


They don't threaten my personal freedom.

No we can't because he can't.

Definitely took away their freedom with extreme prejudice. I would suppose that it doesn't have to be a foreign threat, but in this case it was foreigners that flew the planes into the WTC and they were sponsored by one or more foriegn entities who officially declared war on the US in words and in actions.

Kill more yes, the rest of the statement is arguable and might be good for debate.

If you prefer to use "free market" please feel free to do so. I personally prefer "national interest'.

If you enjoy watching commercials please feel free to do so. I have no problem with it Joe.

So American Joe is more free then English Joe because American Joe comes from a nation that is superior to the other nation?

Makes no sense to me.

You American seem to differentiate between AMERICAN freedom vs Finnish vs English freedom. If so, what is so special in American version of freedom? Is it only that you are free to choose between commercials during NBA or NFL, while European people may enjoy soccer for 90 minutes without a single commercial?

People continue to inhabit the areas that they enjoy best. I'm happy here in San Diego, but I'm positive that there are other beautiful places in the world. I have no reason to move to Europe, Africa, or Asia right now, but I wouldn't have a problem with moving to any of those places temporarily. Like I said, I'm happy here.

I'm sure your country is nice. Where is it? Have you ever lived in the United States?

Yep :) Seems like if we started arguing over this it would only lead to fine tuning.

Amen. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

What's your point? That was then, this is now. Fuck, the Romans were total studs back in the day. So what?

fuck finland

Amputate Your Head wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mika
I gotta couple of questions

a. Why do American consider themselves to be any more free than other Western people?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Because we've been straight up kickin' ass and takin' no shit for over 200 years. And if someone threatens that, they can count on a thorough bitch-slappin' as well. You, on the other hand, are a sheep. Bleet for me oh sheepy one. Bleet. "


he he hehehehe.....

i guess that's why us canadians beat ya in the war of 1812!:1orglaugh

No but if they offer to trade geography teachers go for it.

Holland is the land of clogs and that is purely for tourist, a bit like USA is full of Mickey Mouses.

people often rightfully point out that Americans are ignorant about other cultures. I have spent many years living in Europe and agree that this is true.

what amazes me, is the same ignorance of American culture those same people have as well as their failure to realize that their beliefs, opinions and assumptions are often just as wrong and equally ignorant.

its nice to see that the rest of the world is still very jealous. :thumbsup

ima go watch some simpsons :stoned

I just KNOW I'm going to be flamed like crazy over this, but here goes:

a. Why do American consider themselves to be any more free
than other Western people?

- I believe it is possible that many other western countries have made advances in the personal freedom of their individual citizens. This is the only explaination that I can offer as to why you feel that you are so free (and I'm not debating that) I'm not going to get into an "Americans invented the internet/wheel/sliced bread" discussion here, I will just ask the old standard, which is: "Why have so many people from western countries immigrated to the USA in the last century?" I, myself, am a mix of Irish, French, German and Norwegian. My ancestors immigrated here because they would have more opportunities here in the USA. Perhaps it was purely a economic move, but I would draw your attention to the idea that many people in "less free" countries (China, Russia, parts of Korea ETC) have a poverty level that is quite a bit higher than the USA. I firmly believe that the supression of ideas in these countries is directly linked to this problem. To loosely quote another post from a couple weeks ago: "Europe is free, that's why people were madly fleeing from complete freedom and comfort" (VERY LOOSE on that quote)
I am at least thankful that you didnt use the standard USA complaints like "you have no healthcare and you old people are poor" Which tends to be what I hear from people from the Netherlands... Indeed, this is the sad case, but I really like the fact that I can use my tax dollars for what I want, as opposed to the countries out there that tax you like crazy for your own good. I have not needed to see a doctor in 15 years. (knock on wood) and I'm relatively sure that when I DO see one, the charges will be less than the tens of thousands of dollars I would have spent on Government run health care in the last 15 years. There, I've been meaning to say that for a while now... sorry for the off topic rant.
Why am I more free than other people? Because I can go where I please without papers, say what I want without fear of retribution, Print what I want and be sure of readers, and do what I want (within the law)
There are many countries where this is not so easily the case out there.

Dictionary.com say this as it's first defination of freedom:

free·dom Pronunciation Key (frdm)
n.
The condition of being free of restraints.

I cannot think of one area in which my country has restrained me. In fact, I got my house through a government loan. I feel that my government ENABLES me to do far more than it disables me to do.. Oh, and I can get a BJ, have ANAL, and in some states, legally fuck a sheep. I know that there are some odd laws still on the books, but is this not the case with other western countries?
for instance:

France:
-Between the hours of 8AM and 8PM, 70% of the music in the radio must be by French composers.

Thailand:
-It is illegal to leave your house if you are not wearing underwear.
-You must wear a shirt while driving a car.
-You must pay a fine of $600 in Thailand if you're caught throwing away chewed bubblegum on the sidewalk. If you do not pay the fine, you are jailed.
-No one may step on any of the nation's currency.

England
-Those wishing to use a television must apply for a license.
-It is illegal to leave baggage unattended.
-Picking up abandoned baggage is as act of terrorism

I've always felt that Australia has more odd laws than the USA, check these out!
Australia:
-Children may not purchase cigarettes, but can smoke them.
-You may never leave your car keys in an unattended vehicle.
-It is illegal to roam the streets wearing black clothes, felt shoes and black shoe polish on your face as these items are the tools of a cat burglar.
-It is illegal to read someone's tarot, or give them a psychic reading as these are forms of witchcraft.
-Under Australian Communications Authority (ACA) regulations, your modem can't pick up on the first ring. If it does the ACA permit for your modem is invalid and there's a $12000 fine. - Telecommunications Act 1991.

Check out some more of those wacky western nations that have dumb laws here:
http://www.dumblaws.com/countries/index.html
but remember to check out some of the USA's doozies while you're at it... Just try to remember that the USA is comprised of 50 semi autonomis states whose early laws were not necessarily ratified by any national authority, so to make it fair, remember to compile 50 foreign countries worth of dumb laws first :)

b. Why does US government say that it's defending the freedom of American people when it goes to war?

I'll be brief on this one (I can hear you all applauding)
I feel that my government is defending my freedom when they attack those that have threatened my freedom. I was on my honeymoon in the bahamas when the WTC was destroyed. I lost the freedom to go to my grandfathers funeral in California (he passed away on the 10th) Because of people like Osama Bin Laden and other radicals. I was kept in Florida for 4 additional days because of the fear of further attacks. This fear was not brought on bysome law written in 1897 an never repealed because nobody ever followed it anyways. It was brought on by people who have no respect for my freedom whatsoever.

"Repression of thought is like a VD. It's never welcome when It comes, yet, those who crontract it, feel a terrible urge to spread it around"

The USA is NOT perfect. I smell the manure from the horse ranch 4 miles away on a clear windy day. I am pissed off that my neighbor painted his house some kind of bright green. We have more to do with Judiasm in the Middle East than we need to... But, I have the right to do whatever I want to make my life my own. My government stays out of my life, and keeps my family safe. ALL of this is why I'm free. More free than you? I dont know, but I dont care. I just want to be able to love my country and call myself free without people who've never lived here flaming me... I REALLY look forward to visiting Finland some day, and you can show me how wrong I am over a Palvasalmi Pale Ale.

Drew

'mouses' :glugglug

:smokin

uh huh... Canada today, is like the North Dakota of North Dakota.
:winkwink:

I anwsered a) and b) as well as responded to the rest of your post and that is your response. Well, OK Joe.

god bless america

Excellent. I was hoping that someone who's lived in various countries would respond. I'll go get gothweb...

1812 was a few days ago the last time I checked....:helpme

This poor man was excluded from receiving a decent education.
Thankfully for you there are more uneducated persons on this board that, without thinking first, agree with you.

Mika...
How do you explain the continuous migration of people to the U.S.A? Must be something good about living here, don't you think?

Oh,
I thought I would SPECIFICALLY point out the following URL.. funny as HELL
http://www.dumblaws.com/countries/co...ountry=England

but to balance it out, here is a good one from the state I'm living in now.

http://www.dumblaws.com/states/state...Nevada&Ad=Read

While I would hang someone for shooting my dog, I thought the one for the city of Elko is a riot. I was there the other day, and I completely failed to see anyone wearing a mask. I'd better call the cops.
Drew

Same goes for most "richer" nations.

If you had a choice, would you rather live in Afghanistan or The US? People in poor countries have no future at all in their eyes, they look for a rich nation that can provide them with hope and a future.

Hmm let's see then

"I am not aware that we do."

Many Americans do.

"I suspect, without actually knowing it to be fact, that some things that are legal in the US are not legal in Finland. Unless you have at your finger tips all laws in existence in both countries, you cannot factually deny, what is my suspicion. "

You are just confirming my point. All the differences are fine-tuning. American freedom is not that different from any other western countries

"Freedom and national interest, while technically having different meanings, are often used interchangably. "

Another one of my points. When US government takes care of national interest, it uses the word "freedom" to back up those interests. American people must have another reason for wagin war than money; somebody came up with "Hey Mr President, how about word "freedom"? Everybody wants to be free. So we say they threaten our freedom and they'll accept the war"

"Kill more yes, the rest of the statement is arguable and might be good for debate. "

Exactly. When the threat is foreign, the counter measures that will be taken are always CALLED pro-freedom. But when the threat is domestic., it's not about freedom, although the freedom of individual people could be even more threatened than in the case of a foreign threat.


One question, though, how the fuck do you quote separate parts of post without copy&paste? :)

Coming from an asshole in Detroit, does not mean a damn thing

Leave it to a Canadian to take credit for a British victory.

Randy.. I wasn't at all questioning whether USA is a better place to live than some other country. My post is about the concept of freedom.

I think many other factors contribute to the volume of migration than the degree of freedom only :Graucho

Chill out. You know he was right.

Coming from a semi-literate geographically ignorant halfwhit from California, I take it as a compliment.

well you should.
Living in your 1 bedroom apartment in finland only feels like freedom because you've never walked into the home of your average american.:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

disregard

You're all just further proving my point

For American: FREEDOM = MONEY

Again, you are from Detroit.